cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Belmont on March 28, 2011, 04:33:06 pm

Title: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on March 28, 2011, 04:33:06 pm
I would like to see arquebuses implemented in cRPG.

The reasons why firearms should be added:
- Firearms (such as arquebuses and matchlocks) were widely used in the 15th to 17th century (some firearms were used even earlier), similar to crossbows they were easy to use and didn't require extensive training.
- cRPG has several items from the 15th to 17th century so the atmosphere won't be affected in any way.
- Increased diversity in ranged weapons, all three fulfilling different roles. Firearms should be the most expensive ranged weapon (+25% over crossbows if not more).
- Firearm incite fear due to their power (which could be the same as crossbows or slightly more damaging (3-5 damage) with less accuracy and reload speed OR less damage and more projectile speed)
- Firearm formations *might* be used. (A crouching feature would make it easier, but it is not required)
- If possible (when WSE is implemented), firearms could receive a big penalty to reload speed when it is raining.

Now, the hardest part would be the models and animations but luckily the mod Age of False Innocence (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/board,191.0.html) has released all their materials and they can be freely used as long as credits are provided. Here is a screenshot with several models:

(click to show/hide)

Most of these models are from the 18th and 19th century but some of them also resemble the firearms used between the 15th and 17th century. (These are only some of the firearms the mod has!)

Here are some photos of arquebuses:

(click to show/hide)

Comments are welcome.

EDIT: Suggestion edited to only replace the Siege crossbow to still keep one heavy hitting crossbow.
EDIT2: Suggestion edited to include firearms after it was pointed out that Firearms do have their own hidden WPF category.
Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: Noble Crassius on March 28, 2011, 04:42:09 pm
The only issue I can see is projectile speed, you can't have a bullet that travels as fast the bolts do now without making them look like crap.

Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: Ujin on March 28, 2011, 05:04:06 pm
some of the less late-period looking models could work, i guess.
Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: Dravic on March 28, 2011, 05:13:47 pm
Why replace? Just add another type of weapons: firearms, and keep xbows!

Would be nice to see firearms available in cRPG, but not at cost of replacing them with xbows!
Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: Ujin on March 28, 2011, 05:36:39 pm
Why replace? Just add another type of weapons: firearms, and keep xbows!

Would be nice to see firearms available in cRPG, but not at cost of replacing them with xbows!
"Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows"
Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 28, 2011, 05:42:02 pm
Actually I think this is a pretty good idea, it would really make firearms nerds like me and some other people playing crpg happy, while still keeping crossbows in the game. I would however only replace a siege crossbow with an aquerbus, and leave the heavy crossbow as the heavy hitting xbow. Also there were threads where people would have arguments like ITS NOT THE TIME PERIOD, which is kind of untrue since not only do we not have a set period, there are also a lot of weapons and armors that were used the same time as the early matchlock weapons. (gothic, milanese, all variants of full plate, not to mention weapons like halberd, side sword etc.)

Replacing the last crossbow would be a lot simpler rather than adding a whole new wpf class and req
Title: Re: Replacement for Heavy/Siege Crossbows
Post by: jspook on March 28, 2011, 05:42:44 pm
No on guns.  Guns killed the age of the sword.  This is Mount and Blade.

That being said:  it should take up at least three slots, if not all 4.
rifle (maybe 2 slots)
powder horn
ammunition

*edit*
If you are so keen on replacing the sniper crossbow, why not just add an Arbalest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbalest) to the game.  its a period piece, steel reinforced, hand cranked, heavy infantry crossbow.
It has a steel bow for higher spring tensile strength.  aka: much faster projectile speed and accuracy
it had to be hand cranked (or windlassed).  meaning it has a slow firing speed (about 2 shots a minute)
it was pretty heavy, being made with mostly steel parts.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 28, 2011, 06:08:01 pm
its not as much as about replacing xbow it's about putting stuff in that makes smoke and goes boom
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Gnjus on March 28, 2011, 06:53:29 pm
it's about putting stuff in that makes smoke and goes boom

If you really want that just eat a shitload of beans and roll a weed, it will do the trick for ya.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 28, 2011, 07:02:16 pm
also needs to pierce armor
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Glyph on March 28, 2011, 07:39:27 pm
don't worry if you eat enough beans the smell will pierce anything :D
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Gnjus on March 28, 2011, 07:45:10 pm
also needs to pierce armor

Shove some toothpicks up your arse and fart hard enough.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Christo on March 28, 2011, 07:45:34 pm
I think that replacing is not the right thing to do.

Just make a Firearms branch, with two or three weapons:

A crappy handcannon, short range, inaccurate as hell, and crap damage.

A simple Arquebus, moderate damage, and moderate reloading speed. Also moderate in accuracy. A balanced killing tool.

A complicated Sniper Arquebus, Deals high damage, Takes AGES to reload, but it can go a bit further than the simple Arquebus.
This one should have a bit better accuracy than the simple Arquebus, but it should still miss sometimes, like the Sniper Crossbow.

Also, the costs of these weapons should be pretty high, so plate gunners won't be a problem.
Another option is to balance the guns with the crossbows, so the guns will be only new skins, within a new branch.
Perhaps lower the reloading speed than most crossbows, and add a BIT more damage, to make them different, but it should leave crossbows a viable weapon.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 28, 2011, 07:46:48 pm
making a whole branch might need a whole deal of work
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on March 28, 2011, 08:02:37 pm
DONT REPLACE MY BELUVED SIEGE CROSSBOW WITH THAT 17th CENTURY SHIT!  :shock:

just implement medieval fire arms already!
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Casimir on March 28, 2011, 08:10:28 pm
i hate everyone in this community for this thread
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Gurnisson on March 28, 2011, 08:44:42 pm
No, just no.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 28, 2011, 08:45:58 pm
aquerbus IS a medieval fierarm ; o
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 28, 2011, 10:08:40 pm
...and i believe he doesn't need a lawyer, especially not one who in his spare time acts as a dedicated "friendly scumcher"....  :evil:


My apologies but there is no correlation between a clarification, the duties of a lawyer, and how being a "friendly scumcher" has anything to do with the previous two subjects(btw I like how you put friendly in quotes  :D , rather adorable I dare say), so I really do not get why you made the leap between a clarification and a lawyer, nor do I get why you made the rather large leap of adding the "especially not one who in his spare time acts as a dedicated "friendly scumcher"" to me being said supposed lawyer. Do you really have such a hatred or disliking for archers that you are unable to resist mentioning them in subjects that have nothing to do with them? (Such as lawyers?). Simply fascinating.

_______________________________

Anywho, to the topic at hand; while firearms can be lumped in the general time period band that this game uses, I dare say that they would be a detriment to the "feel" of the setting, as there is simply something delightful about hearing only the whizzes of arrows and bolts, the trotting of horses, and the general clamor of melee combat all about you without the single sound of an explosion.

I would rather keep firearms out, for the simple reason of personal taste, and that bullets would look absolutely horrid if they used slow projectile speeds.

After all, in the fictional land that we live in, there are no firearms anyways, so why not let the knights in shining armor have their fun?
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: LordRichrich on March 28, 2011, 10:24:44 pm
Yes but only if they can be used wearing armours no heavier than mail!
And if these were implemented we'd need some more light armours to match
And a bayonet. But it would only allow thrust and overhead attacks. Maybe swings aswell but meh.
See the MM mod for ideas
I really want firearms
And some cheap ones, don't make them just high cost!
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: justme on March 28, 2011, 10:33:23 pm
anyhow, no to suggestion
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Dan lol on March 28, 2011, 10:57:42 pm
(click to show/hide)
YES LETS GIVE PLAYERS EVEN MORE INCENTIVE TO RUN AROUND WEARING PEASANT CLOTHES AND DOING NOTHING BUT SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER THE ENTIRE ROUND

THIS IS WHAT THE GAME NEEDS MORE OF

ALSO THE FORUMS NEED MORE PPL THAT DONT KNOW HOW TO USE SPOILERS AND TURN OFF CAPS LOCK
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Penitent on March 28, 2011, 11:04:05 pm
Might be cool...

But I would definitely NOT be for an entire branch of firearms.  It should be a rare, very primitive weapon.  Also, the accuracy would have to be piss poor, to reflect real firearms of the period.  The best firearms of the 15th century were less accurate than the worse crossbows.

So it would be very slow, very inaccurate, and powerful..but it shouldn't work on rainy maps.  So really, hardly anyone would use it...just like in the 15th century!  I'd be ok with that.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Madcat on March 28, 2011, 11:07:30 pm
I want firearms :(

It could be seriously expensive to lower it's use. Like 20k or something :p

That way you can't be a hybrid firearms user without losing a lot of money.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Joxer on March 28, 2011, 11:12:40 pm
Yeah we need guns. Realistic almost useless and inaccurate guns that is. I'd buy one immediately even if it would just blow up in my hands.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Belmont on March 28, 2011, 11:14:05 pm
I want firearms :(

It could be seriously expensive to lower it's use. Like 20k or something :p

That you can't be a hybrid firearms user without losing a lot of money.

This is one of the reasons why I selected the siege crossbow to replace because it costs 17477 plus 2136 for the bolts (19613 total).
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: MrShovelFace on March 28, 2011, 11:15:59 pm
the reason im against firearms is because the firing arc and the projectile speed. Both are at practical perfectly bound and neither can be changed to a reasonable amount without losing the concept of a gun.

If you ever play mods with guns you will notice that regardless of how inaccurate they get you still get kills. This is because there is no dependancy on the individual skill level. For a game so intensely based on skill (Making CoD derps look like WoW grinders) adding a weapon that bypasses any need to analyze when where and if to fire is wrong.  :evil:

Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: haxKingdom on March 28, 2011, 11:16:07 pm
crossbows are the only weapons indistinguishable from one another, but adding firearms would screw up the game. Instead they should just be retextured to have different materials.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Madcat on March 28, 2011, 11:24:54 pm
the reason im against firearms is because the firing arc and the projectile speed. Both are at practical perfectly bound and neither can be changed to a reasonable amount without losing the concept of a gun.

If you ever play mods with guns you will notice that regardless of how inaccurate they get you still get kills. This is because there is no dependancy on the individual skill level. For a game so intensely based on skill (Making CoD derps look like WoW grinders) adding a weapon that bypasses any need to analyze when where and if to fire is wrong.  :evil:

I don't know. If you played that musket mod or the western mod before it, good players prevailed over worse ones :p
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Gnjus on March 28, 2011, 11:51:16 pm
Gnjus, I don't care what personal quarrels you might have with Georges but they do not belong in a suggestion topic. Your posts have been reported and will hopefully be dealt with soon enough.

Wtf LoL ? Quarrels ? ROFL !!! You shoggies are even more retarded then i ever thought of you........you reported me for what exactly ? Bah, i couldnt care less actually......i have never had any "quarrels" with Đuro, if he thinks i did then he's even more stupid then yourself (im sure he's not but hell, nothing can surprise me anymore these days).

Jebote bog Đuro s kakvim si ti to retardima u klanu ? Nisam te nikad smatrao za takvog idiota al jebiga ak jesi onda reci odma da znam lol, da i tebe prekrižim.......   :wink:
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Belmont on March 29, 2011, 12:13:36 am
Wtf LoL ? Quarrels ? ROFL !!! You shoggies are even more retarded then i ever thought of you........you reported me for what exactly ? Bah, i couldnt care less actually......i have never had any "quarrels" with Đuro, if he thinks i did then he's even more stupid then yourself (im sure he's not but hell, nothing can surprise me anymore these days).

Jebote bog Đuro s kakvim si ti to retardima u klanu ? Nisam te nikad smatrao za takvog idiota al jebiga ak jesi onda reci odma da znam lol, da i tebe prekrižim.......   :wink:

That is exactly why I reported your previous post. This is a suggestion topic not a topic to insult other people. I do not mind a few jokes (see page 1) but you need to learn self control. Also, I do not know what Georges thinks about you nor could I care less, but to me it seems some sort of quarrel if you insult him in this topic when it is a suggestion topic.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: MountedRhader on March 29, 2011, 12:19:53 am
If you do add guns then make it with bad reload time (making them 1 hit or nothing) and with actual early freaking models. Also: would guns fire projectiles that go through armour? It's history repeating itself then. cRPG would see little to no armor being used since everyone would flock to guns.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Madcat on March 29, 2011, 12:33:51 am
Also: would guns fire projectiles that go through armour? It's history repeating itself then. cRPG would see little to no armor being used since everyone would flock to guns.

As I understand it early Arquebusiers used armor and it helped protect against the firearms, at least the early versions.
But they stopped using armor because it cost a lot of money to fit your entire army with it. Even in the Napoleon wars, there were generals who wore half plates and helmets to protect against projectiles.

I think it basically came down to money. Arquebusiers wore cheaper to train and upkeep then a normal soldier. And plate was expensive.

Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Nemeth on March 29, 2011, 12:39:09 am
Georges (Đuro) is a balkanian piece of crap and if anyone deserves to be shit-talked its him !  :twisted:

I indeed was refering to your gibberish, so you can shove it! Noone is interested in that crap!  :twisted:

PS: You suck! (no argument is complete without accusing the other person of sucking in game while the topic at hand has nothing to do with the game)
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Gnjus on March 29, 2011, 08:24:49 am
That is exactly why I reported your previous post. This is a suggestion topic not a topic to insult other people. I do not mind a few jokes (see page 1) but you need to learn self control. Also, I do not know what Georges thinks about you nor could I care less, but to me it seems some sort of quarrel if you insult him in this topic when it is a suggestion topic.

...and you (and a few of your colleagues) need to learn to control your lawyerish outbursts.
Also, i was joking with Đuro (on topic btw) and im sure he understood, too bad that you, who understand nothing at all, came here first to "report" me for insulting that didnt actually happen. If you cant understand our communication then you shouldnt get into it at all.



PS: You suck! (no argument is complete without accusing the other person of sucking in game while the topic at hand has nothing to do with the game)

 :wink:
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Glyph on March 29, 2011, 05:55:17 pm
but if he thought he did(and he apperently did) he should. :wink:
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: gazda on March 29, 2011, 07:48:48 pm
i would really like to see 16th-17th century crpg, its era of gunpowder but also a blade,

i would solve problem of balance this way

1. muskets would be inaccurate, and would have missfires
2. each stack of catridges would have 7-8 bullets
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on March 29, 2011, 10:59:23 pm
for me bringing any type of firearms in to cRPG would ruin the mod if you want firearms go play mount and musket or the western mod
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 29, 2011, 11:06:10 pm
Don't remove the Sniper Crossbow. It is lovely.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Farrok on March 30, 2011, 03:25:45 pm
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3163.msg57763.html#msg57763
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 30, 2011, 05:57:55 pm
Like it has been noted before, firearms have their own slot waiting to be used already in the code, there isn't any need for them to replace crossbows, in the character screen, the firearms wpf is hidden, but is still a field all sprites have. And there should be a flintlock pistol model already there. I personally don't have anything against guns in cRPG, but would be sad if they didn't come through, anyhow I'd be able to outrange them with my sniper crossbow.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Belmont on March 30, 2011, 06:00:18 pm
Like it has been noted before, firearms have their own slot waiting to be used already in the code, there isn't any need for them to replace crossbows, in the character screen, the firearms wpf is hidden, but is still a field all sprites have. And there should be a flintlock pistol model already there. I personally don't have anything against guns in cRPG, but would be sad if they didn't come through, anyhow I'd be able to outrange them with my sniper crossbow.

I completely forgot about this, would make it much easier to implement them.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: ToxicKilla on March 30, 2011, 08:25:28 pm
I don't know wether firearms would be good or rubbish, but if they would go in, you definately need these beasts!
(click to show/hide)
Early hand cannons for the win! Would be VERY inacurate, slow reloading and a bit more powerfull than an xbow.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Reinhardt on March 30, 2011, 08:49:02 pm
It's been said before so many times. If you want to play with guns, go play one of the other 10 mods in warband that have them incorporated.

I'm the leader of a Crusader themed clan, and it would just kill the medieval feel if bullets were to fly around the field...
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: LordRichrich on March 30, 2011, 08:53:09 pm
It's been said before so many times. If you want to play with guns, go play one of the other 10 mods in warband that have them incorporated.

I'm the leader of a Crusader themed clan, and it would just kill the medieval feel if bullets were to fly around the field...
So?
Being the leader of a clan doesn't give you any more influence (lets face it) than some guy who plays once a week

I think they SHOULD be put in, and if not all gunpowder era weapons should be taken OUT
You can't have one and not the other
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Kaelaen on March 30, 2011, 08:55:08 pm
You can't have one and not the other

Sure you can.  But that's not our call usually.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: LordRichrich on March 30, 2011, 09:01:00 pm
Sure you can.  But that's not our call usually.
TRue but  the point is valid
And what's the worst that'll happen?
They won't be OP'd. They'll be a more powerful, less accurate version of crossbows. and a lot slower to boot
It can add to the RPG element of cRPG. First thing I'll do is by a gun with onna my high lvl chars and heirloom it and make me a musketman class :D
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Kaelaen on March 30, 2011, 10:03:02 pm
Oh no I'm not opposed to guns, sorry for being vague about it.  I am however ambient about them. 

Just so it doesn't feel like I was picking on you, Reinhardt's solution to go play somewhere makes about as much sense as people who complain country music and other genres do not belong in the video game Rock Band just because the title says Rock Band.  Or to hit closer to home, people who complain about range complaining the title of the game is called Mount and Blade and therefore should have absolutely nothing to do with anything else.

Anyway seeing as how I do not have an imagination I cannot tell if guns would be good or bad in crpg simply because I've never seen guns in crpg therefore I have no idea if it will affect the game positively or negatively.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Ujio on March 30, 2011, 10:19:37 pm
Nah Im Not too keen on guns being implemented, plus this is set in the 1200s as far as I know
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on March 30, 2011, 10:23:15 pm
Nah Im Not too keen on guns being implemented, plus this is set in the 1200s as far as I know

Nope. We have a load of Renaissance gear, Milanese plate isn't from 1200's for an example.  :)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Torp on March 30, 2011, 10:23:34 pm
no... just no
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Diomedes on March 31, 2011, 12:32:51 am
A case to be considered:

- Masterwork Gun
- Dedicated build
- Kesh


The pre-patch days may yet live again!
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: HuskerRall on March 31, 2011, 12:55:50 am
YES

justification:

1. I have several friends that gave up the crossbows because it is so expensive to mantain and I guess any firearm should be more expensive than a crossbow
2. late period and renascence gear
3. samurai and ninja stuff  :rolleyes: - its funny how ninja here use long katana swords, ninja favored short swords that can be concealed
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: ArchonAlarion on March 31, 2011, 01:30:05 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login



Early firearms were somewhat similar to shotguns. Often shrapnel was used instead of bullets. They'd generally have less range, lower accuracy, and long reload times.

The implementation of firearms is not the issue. The issue is the rest of the shitty mod, where superhuman stats take advantage of everything and equipment does not do what it does in reality.


Real life is balanced (physics). You don't need to distort the reality of weapons and armor to "create" balance. Manipulation of weapon cost/accessibility is enough if done properly, but of course it is not currently in crpg.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 31, 2011, 01:34:50 am
3. samurai and ninja stuff  :rolleyes: - its funny how ninja here use long katana swords, ninja favored short swords that can be concealed

Real ninja did not wear black armor or any of the other ten million things you see in game either.

Due to Hollywood, when people say Ninja they really meant Shinobi. Ninja had no use for weapons, as they wore plain clothes on purpose to blend in for espionage and such. The Shinobi were the ones that did the killing.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: MadJackMcMad on March 31, 2011, 06:57:56 pm
We already have weapons and armour that outdate early firearms, so why not?
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on March 31, 2011, 07:52:21 pm
if you all want firearms why not just go play MM?
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on March 31, 2011, 08:02:19 pm
if you all want firearms why not just go play MM?

Why post the same thing twice? Adding firearms to cRPG would just add more variety and not break game balance.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Zisa on March 31, 2011, 08:15:50 pm
Who suggested guns.. did I mention this? Fuck no, mo and fucking no.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on March 31, 2011, 08:21:55 pm
Why post the same thing twice? Adding firearms to cRPG would just add more variety and not break game balance.

i disagree i think it would imbalance the game E.G cavalry kill infantry, infantry kill archers and archers kill cavalry now if guns DO get added even if the take ages to reload and they cost the earth the "system" would probably be like this cavalry kill infantry, infantry kill archers, archers kill archers then guns kill cavalry's horses making them useless mostly then bullets would break infantry's shields and would out range archers bows and cross-bows so that would IMBALANCE it of-corse i could be wrong and if i am then please do show me how im not saying this is how it will be merely a possibility.     
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on March 31, 2011, 09:43:45 pm
i disagree i think it would imbalance the game E.G cavalry kill infantry, infantry kill archers and archers kill cavalry now if guns DO get added even if the take ages to reload and they cost the earth the "system" would probably be like this cavalry kill infantry, infantry kill archers, archers kill archers then guns kill cavalry's horses making them useless mostly then bullets would break infantry's shields and would out range archers bows and cross-bows so that would IMBALANCE it of-corse i could be wrong and if i am then please do show me how im not saying this is how it will be merely a possibility.   

You are thinking that firearms in cRPG would be similar to the firearms in real life power wise but for the sake of balance they shouldn't be and in my original post I typed that firearms should at most only do 5 extra damage over crossbows (sniper: 75, best firearm: 80) while having less accuracy and a longer reload time. Firearms would become the strongest ranged weapon (excluding 9+ PT throwers) and should be about 25% more expensive than crossbows.

EDIT: Projectile speed does NOT have to be insanely fast, it should be slightly better than crossbows but not by much (2-4 points).
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Phalanx300 on March 31, 2011, 10:14:21 pm
The damage would be higher then the bows and crossbows but it would be way to inaccurate to in any way rival the bow and crossbow in one on one. Reloading also takes much longer then the bow or crossbow. So that way it would be quite balanced while also realistic.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on March 31, 2011, 10:41:23 pm
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 01, 2011, 12:57:21 am
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.

THANKYOU at last some one agrees epic post :)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: EponiCo on April 01, 2011, 01:41:04 am
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.

This is a good idea. But increase explosion chance. It's annoying how you always get ganged by 10 people.  :lol:
No seriously, I don't understand all the gun hate. We have 16th century stuff mixed with vikings, arabs and fantasy ninjas, what harm would an arquebus do? Just make them weaker than crossbows.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 01, 2011, 02:30:14 am
i just dont see the need theres load of other mods with guns why would you want even more??
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on April 01, 2011, 10:25:05 am
It should be a rare, very primitive weapon.  Also, the accuracy would have to be piss poor, to reflect real firearms of the period.  The best firearms of the 15th century were less accurate than the worse crossbows.

So it would be very slow, very inaccurate, and powerful..but it shouldn't work on rainy maps.  So really, hardly anyone would use it...just like in the 15th century!  I'd be ok with that.

yeah exactly what i want !
#
and Gorges, arquebuses belong to the renecains (early 16 th century) and not into the 15th century which crpg is set in.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: Belmont on April 01, 2011, 11:35:47 am
and Gorges, arquebuses belong to the renecains (early 16 th century) and not into the 15th century which crpg is set in.

cRPG does not have a proper timeline, it has items ranging from very early to very late. Firearms from the 16th century would fit very well.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: bredeus on April 01, 2011, 11:56:01 am
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.
+1
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Cupidon on April 01, 2011, 12:29:41 pm
They should add an usable catapult or trebuchet instead firearms...    :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on April 01, 2011, 01:16:54 pm
They should add an usable catapult or trebuchet instead firearms...    :rolleyes:

There is an usable catapult already, deploy a construction site in the duel server and go crazy with it.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Paul on April 01, 2011, 01:30:15 pm
I am pro-firearm (in cRPG), always been. However in the beginning chadz made a poll and the majority was against it I think. Don't know if that changed. I suggest making a poll again.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on April 01, 2011, 01:36:53 pm
I am pro-firearm (in cRPG), always been. However in the beginning chadz made a poll and the majority was against it I think. Don't know if that changed. I suggest making a poll again.

I can add a poll to my topic but I think a poll on an announcement would involve a much larger number of people.

EDIT: Poll added.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Casimir on April 01, 2011, 02:45:15 pm
Campers of Acre with muskets. Can you fucking imagine!

Just no to this suggestion. The current atmosphere is just about acceptable. But adding guns would completly change the feel of the game. And nobody can deny.

Wethere the balance or game play would change is irrelevant to me. Guns in this mod WOULD kill any sence of an enjoyible atmosphere from cRPG.
Title: Re: Replacement for Siege Crossbow
Post by: ToxicKilla on April 01, 2011, 02:53:15 pm
cRPG does not have a proper timeline, it has items ranging from very early to very late. Firearms from the 16th century would fit very well.

Nah, Arquebus seem's too out of place. However, like I said earlier, an early hand cannon wouldn't hurt the atmosphere or balance.
(click to show/hide)
Early hand cannons for the win! Would be VERY inacurate, slow reloading and a bit more powerfull than an xbow.

Since they would be so inacurate, you could get some clans using them in volleys, which would be quite cool to see. Not nearly as cool as longbowmen shooting in volleys though. :twisted:

Edit: Those gun models are from 'Knights: the last battle' mod if I remember correctly. Screenshot's taken in my little native mod.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Apostata on April 01, 2011, 03:30:51 pm
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.


By cutting off your most superfluous beginning I find you state your argument on valid ground. There should be no real advantages based on luck.

 Nevertheless - how do we find, sir that big bad ranged weapon with big reticule while aiming is based on luck? Still, this reticule needs to be aimed on target and still, quantity (of fired shots) makes hit to happend more "luckily" likely, thus influencing the way how, when and how much is ranged weapon fired and used. No, I do not find firearms, throwing with 0 and other crap based on pure luck and I give anyone who consider them as such a big sorrowful smile.

I am for adding firearms.  So called "atmosphere" is already spoiled by archers wearing closed helmets and by army of huscarl shields and side swords and of course by those dickheads who think that plate armor looks great and so cool with great helmets. I really dont see what kind of cheap stalemate we can achieve with preserving warfare as it is. cRpg needs fresh air. Most of equipment many of us using right now was added only because of diversity cRpg always ought to have. Lets not close doors to firearms when those who likes european warfare or that "atmosphere" ( I really dont see any) should already be disgusted by japanese stuff.

Quote
Since they would be so inacurate, you could get some clans using them in volleys, which would be quite cool to see. Not nearly as cool as longbowmen shooting in volleys though. :twisted:

I would love that more than archers on rooftops. Or oh, wait no, its time to preserve this uniqe "atmosphere" of rooftop sniping my old friendness!
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Elmetiacos on April 01, 2011, 04:52:07 pm
I am pro-firearm (in cRPG), always been. However in the beginning chadz made a poll and the majority was against it I think. Don't know if that changed. I suggest making a poll again.
And we keep having polls until we get the right answer. Do you work for the EU Commission?
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Laufknoten on April 01, 2011, 05:31:46 pm
And we keep having polls until we get the right answer. Do you work for the EU Commission?
+1

I have no problem with firearms, but it shouldn't come out like this:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

:D
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 01, 2011, 08:31:03 pm

By cutting off your most superfluous beginning I find you state your argument on valid ground. There should be no real advantages based on luck.

 Nevertheless - how do we find, sir that big bad ranged weapon with big reticule while aiming is based on luck? Still, this reticule needs to be aimed on target and still, quantity (of fired shots) makes hit to happend more "luckily" likely, thus influencing the way how, when and how much is ranged weapon fired and used. No, I do not find firearms, throwing with 0 and other crap based on pure luck and I give anyone who consider them as such a big sorrowful smile.

I am for adding firearms.  So called "atmosphere" is already spoiled by archers wearing closed helmets and by army of huscarl shields and side swords and of course by those dickheads who think that plate armor looks great and so cool with great helmets. I really dont see what kind of cheap stalemate we can achieve with preserving warfare as it is. cRpg needs fresh air. Most of equipment many of us using right now was added only because of diversity cRpg always ought to have. Lets not close doors to firearms when those who likes european warfare or that "atmosphere" ( I really dont see any) should already be disgusted by japanese stuff.

I would love that more than archers on rooftops. Or oh, wait no, its time to preserve this uniqe "atmosphere" of rooftop sniping my old friendness!

from what you have said it just seems like you want no ranged in the mod and no heavy armour...
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Blondin on April 02, 2011, 12:04:28 am
And we keep having polls until we get the right answer. Do you work for the EU Commission?

Last one :

Yes, that would be nice.     75 (26%)
No i have enough ego shooter games.     184 (63.9%)
Maybe , but wait until fire and sword comes out and then we can see how it is.     29 (10.1%)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: johncage on April 02, 2011, 12:49:25 am
Things need to be removed, not added. The Samuari armor and swords and the ninja stars for starters.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Phalanx300 on April 02, 2011, 12:35:59 pm
Things should be added. The more variety the better. Its what makes this mod great. Only too bad about its ignorant community.  :rolleyes:

And when was that last poll held? Most people just think of M&M mods or shooters when they think of guns so instantly press no while they would basicly act like an crossbow only slightly different.

 Just search for arquebus or other early firearms.... Most votes are because they don't know how it would work...
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Kazak on April 02, 2011, 01:16:58 pm
Want fireamrs? Go and play Mount and Musket!  :evil: :evil: :evil:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 02, 2011, 02:39:48 pm

By cutting off your most superfluous beginning I find you state your argument on valid ground. There should be no real advantages based on luck.

 Nevertheless - how do we find, sir that big bad ranged weapon with big reticule while aiming is based on luck? Still, this reticule needs to be aimed on target and still, quantity (of fired shots) makes hit to happend more "luckily" likely, thus influencing the way how, when and how much is ranged weapon fired and used. No, I do not find firearms, throwing with 0 and other crap based on pure luck and I give anyone who consider them as such a big sorrowful smile.

I am for adding firearms.  So called "atmosphere" is already spoiled by archers wearing closed helmets and by army of huscarl shields and side swords and of course by those dickheads who think that plate armor looks great and so cool with great helmets. I really dont see what kind of cheap stalemate we can achieve with preserving warfare as it is. cRpg needs fresh air. Most of equipment many of us using right now was added only because of diversity cRpg always ought to have. Lets not close doors to firearms when those who likes european warfare or that "atmosphere" ( I really dont see any) should already be disgusted by japanese stuff.

I would love that more than archers on rooftops. Or oh, wait no, its time to preserve this uniqe "atmosphere" of rooftop sniping my old friendness!

"we have sideswords, 17th century equipment, samurai's and ninjas so we can have even firemars" - this is no argument. i feel the game is already fucked up by all this over to much, but still its not a reason why to fuck it up even more. if it came down to me only, i'd limit it to true medieval equipment only, i'd allow only RP names ingame etc. if you don't care about medieval atmosphere (which in understandable as not everybody likes pure medieval feel) than you will agree with adding almost anything and there is from your point of view nothing wrong with that.

aye you are right, firearms will recquire "some skill". even throwing a nuke takes a very small, but still skill in the end - you know what i mean, you should hit at least a city center in 5km range...
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Apostata on April 02, 2011, 04:49:09 pm
"we have sideswords, 17th century equipment, samurai's and ninjas so we can have even firemars" - this is no argument. i feel the game is already fucked up by all this over to much, but still its not a reason why to fuck it up even more. if it came down to me only, i'd limit it to true medieval equipment only, i'd allow only RP names ingame etc. if you don't care about medieval atmosphere (which in understandable as not everybody likes pure medieval feel) than you will agree with adding almost anything and there is from your point of view nothing wrong with that.

aye you are right, firearms will recquire "some skill". even throwing a nuke takes a very small, but still skill in the end - you know what i mean, you should hit at least a city center in 5km range...

To you second bolded text: For such thoughts I nod and pray for  this game style to suceed in times, where all what players care for, is their K/D ratio and cool clan tags. Shame that cRpg is absolutely not about it. Thus I prefer firearms to take their part.

To your first..:
When entities which are sharing the same logic confirming values are put into one agreggate (lets name it "Ag") of their very type and then it comes to the decision what to do with the exact same kind of thing which shares self justifying value like the others mentioned in "Ag"...
 well, yes it IS argument.

Your thoughts about perfect medieval game have my respect, as such depiction of medieval game are very close to vision of mine, but lets be honest. CRpg is favourite game of none of us but disgusting eclectic wankers and if there is some way how to at least fulfill this warfare eclectism which cRpg trades to us, its time to add it, together with more and more and more...

Of course we can share a word about it via PM in czech aswell.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: DrKronic on April 02, 2011, 04:59:37 pm
there could be 50 percent chance for a firearm to explode and kill the user + everybody around, the other 50 percent chance would be that the gun wouldn't fire at all. than i could live with firearms in medieval MOUNT and BLADE game. otherwise i don't want to see them ingame (a few more random hard hitting ranged weapons that are only about luck? wtf? why?). just go to play M&M mod.

TOTALLY AGREE, ALSO early firearms like the medieval handguns(which should be the only ones really added, the ones from late 13th,early 14th first employed by Arabs) would not work at all in rain

and should be near completely innacurate and take forever to reload, plus I'm not sure if its safe to keep a charge loaded in one of those, or if you're supposed to shoot as soon as you load a charge(so mebbe no carrying a loaded one)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zro0_kGL160

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwoHWV1vaVs&feature=related
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 02, 2011, 05:50:28 pm
Well, I can accept Firearms in cRPG, as long as it's balanced out.

But think about one thing. If it gets in, but won't be fun, and entertaining as the other classes, then what's the point?
Don't "overbalance" it either. It has to be a bit competent with the other ranged classes a bit, it's a game after all.  :wink:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: woody on April 02, 2011, 06:01:34 pm
Please no.

Why does this keep coming up?

Add the arbalest if you want as uber X bow firearm equivalent with a 2 min reload.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 02, 2011, 06:18:15 pm
i'm lost :o)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Blondin on April 02, 2011, 07:37:56 pm
Things should be added. The more variety the better. Its what makes this mod great. Only too bad about its ignorant community.  :rolleyes:

And when was that last poll held? Most people just think of M&M mods or shooters when they think of guns so instantly press no while they would basicly act like an crossbow only slightly different.

 Just search for arquebus or other early firearms.... Most votes are because they don't know how it would work...

Last poll was held 20th march (10 days...) : http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3163.0.html

The result was clear so ppl started another one.

I don't understand your need for firearms, guns, musket, arquebuse, all are the same, a one shot weapon.
you say it will work like xbow, then what's your problem you already have xbow, no smoke that's all.
You talking about the ignorant community, but you should be more ignorant to not understand that guns (or arquebuse...) will dramaticaly change cRPG, i'm not talking about the atmosphere, but balance and gameplay, gameplay with guns is totaly different, they could be machineguns or arquebus, it's still the same, it hurts too much the way to play.

I'm out, see ya in the next thread and next poll in few days.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Glyph on April 02, 2011, 08:14:04 pm
Please no.

Why does this keep coming up?

Add the arbalest if you want as uber X bow firearm equivalent with a 2 min reload.
if the arbalest would be implemented i think there should be some king of deployable shield that can be picked up again and is only as big one player(board shield size, a bit wider but less high so you can shoot over it) so it would protect the person reloading. you should be only allowed to have a shield like this if you have an arbalest.(i know there are siege shields:I)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 02, 2011, 08:45:06 pm
Pavise! Hell yeah.

Deployable Board shields.. I like this.

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I know, Siege Shield can do the same, but this is awesome.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Noble Crassius on April 02, 2011, 08:50:49 pm
Pavise shields have been suggested before but never implemented. both on the old forums and here..chadz must hate xbowmen.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1067.msg14490.html#msg14490
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Glyph on April 02, 2011, 08:53:11 pm
like that but just a bit lower. and ofcourse you can be able to pick them up! that'd be cool!
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 02, 2011, 09:04:57 pm
Pavise shields have been suggested before but never implemented. both on the old forums and here..chadz must hate xbowmen.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1067.msg14490.html#msg14490

 :cry:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Glyph on April 02, 2011, 09:10:10 pm
then we'll change his mind!!! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Beauchamp on April 03, 2011, 01:28:30 pm
but pavise (unlike siege shield) can be undeployed and moved to another spot, or am i wrong?
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Phalanx300 on April 03, 2011, 02:35:22 pm
Would be useless for Crossbowman to carry them otherwise.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Duerkos on April 04, 2011, 01:14:17 am
I would like the idea if they are something in between crossbows and throwing weapons in balance. We have the one hit throwing lances (3 ammo per stack) and the sniper crossbow, with a lot of time reloading but 15 bolts.

The main problem here and the reason because ranged spam is annoying is that you can't do anything against it. If a melee soldier kills you, you know it's your fault, you blocked badly, there were too many of them... if someone one-hits you instantly with a very fast projectile you cant do anything (you can't even try to dodge it).

Even if the weapon is "balanced" it would be because it kills more people slower, but not less efficiently. The people who got killed would be still annoyed.

Anyway, I would be ok with it if it needed 3 slots like someone said (bullets, a horn, and the firearm). Something between 5-7 bullets, more acuraccy than a throwing weapon and less than a crossbow (more or less in between), 2 times the reloading of the sniper crossbow, no need to adjust height, more projectile speed (a lot), and the damage of the sniper crossbow or slightly more. However if heirloomed it shouldnt be more than the masterwork sniper crossbow (so it doesn't one hit armored people). And be veeeery expensive, the worst one should be like the sniper crossbow.

In this scenario, only badly skilled people and people who likes firearms would use it, with no more unbalancing than a sniper crossbow or throwing lances (which should be nerfed in my opinion).

An interesting idea would be that they are very heavy and requiring WPF in order to be wielded BUT not to become better at its use (if this can't be done, then... engineering skill?). This along with the 3 slots ,weight, and money needed, would mean you cannot become a master firearm character or a very good hybrid.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Glyph on April 04, 2011, 09:40:45 am
i think you need to do something before you can shoot the gun, like pull the thing that is on the gun(forgot its name), so you can't just shoot it like a crossbow
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Serth on April 04, 2011, 09:43:01 am
You guys want more ranged? Go play cod.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on April 04, 2011, 12:50:34 pm
no, especially to those models in op. keep this game medieval. there is no need to change this game into CoD or BF.

it would be nice to have weapon diversity. but muskets and carabines are too advanced for medieval age. in my opinion, you can add hand cannons and arquebuses. but with following conditions to keep the game balance,

15-25% risk of exploding and fatally wounding the operator (that would be nice and realistic)
arquebuses must be deployed before shooting
can't fire the weapons while moving
hand cannons have lesser accuracy & damage, but don't need deploying (still can't fire while moving to prevent shotgun actions)
can't fire the weapons while it's raining
reloading time must be over 1 min, so you can shoot only 5-6 volleys in one round
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 04, 2011, 04:16:39 pm
no, especially to those models in op. keep this game medieval. there is no need to change this game into CoD or BF.

it would be nice to have weapon diversity. but muskets and carabines are too advanced for medieval age. in my opinion, you can add hand cannons and arquebuses. but with following conditions to keep the game balance,

15-25% risk of exploding and fatally wounding the operator (that would be nice and realistic)
arquebuses must be deployed before shooting
can't fire the weapons while moving
hand cannons have lesser accuracy & damage, but don't need deploying (still can't fire while moving to prevent shotgun actions)
can't fire the weapons while it's raining
reloading time must be over 1 min, so you can shoot only 5-6 volleys in one round

and you can't reaload while moving
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Legor on April 04, 2011, 05:12:52 pm
no, especially to those models in op. keep this game medieval. there is no need to change this game into CoD or BF.

Well firearms are used in medieval since 1200... and in crpg are many weapons of Renaissance.

reloading time must be over 1 min, so you can shoot only 5-6 volleys in one round
a good musketeer can reload and fire 2 times a minute.

Legor
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 04, 2011, 06:14:53 pm
To be more precise, the first recorded use of a firearm in medieval times in europe was in 1350, some civil war battle amongst the English, though not until recently (a few months ago) did we find this, otherwise it really only became widespread in somewhere between 1360 and 1370 (I forget the exact date).
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 04, 2011, 07:49:10 pm
But those early Hand cannons were crap. That should be shown in-game.

Only the Matchlocks/Arquebuses should be somewhat useful.
But not in rain. Even in the 17-18th century it was hard to reload a musket in such conditions.

With such early designs, it was impossible. That's why an army failed, because when the time of battle came, it was raining, and they relied on Arquebusiers too much.. fail.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on April 04, 2011, 10:20:21 pm
and you can't reaload while moving

yes, of course, i forgot to write that  :wink:
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 04, 2011, 11:47:45 pm
NO


Ranged weapons we have are enough of a plague to the common gameplay.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 05, 2011, 06:08:17 pm
8 letters COD, BF, MOH
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 05, 2011, 06:50:11 pm
The engineering skill could be scripted into the character menu, which would affect the guns you could use like powerdraw and powerthrow do for archery and throwing, or instead of the weapon having requirement, the ammo could have requirement, limiting the amount of gunfire.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on April 05, 2011, 07:04:10 pm
To be honest we already have Vikings fighting Samurai fighting Ninjas fighting Western Knights from different centuries fighting Mongolians fighting Trollbears fighting crossdressers fighting an assorted range of peasants. We have so much variety in this mod, which draws in a lot of people. The persistence of the mod keeps them here. Guns are definitely in this time period, in various guises. They would work against heavily armoured foes, but reload too slowly to take on a horde of lightly armoured athletes. There's the balance. We'd see a range of new builds, like dedicated gunners, dragoons, and 1 shot pistol ninjas. Oh yeah, and some guns should have an alternate melee mode, maybe a bayonet for basic defensive purposes.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Christo on April 05, 2011, 09:07:42 pm
Nah, bayonets and pistols would be a bit too much.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 05, 2011, 10:39:55 pm
To be honest we already have Vikings fighting Samurai fighting Ninjas fighting Western Knights from different centuries fighting Mongolians fighting Trollbears fighting crossdressers fighting an assorted range of peasants. We have so much variety in this mod, which draws in a lot of people. The persistence of the mod keeps them here. Guns are definitely in this time period, in various guises. They would work against heavily armoured foes, but reload too slowly to take on a horde of lightly armoured athletes. There's the balance. We'd see a range of new builds, like dedicated gunners, dragoons, and 1 shot pistol ninjas. Oh yeah, and some guns should have an alternate melee mode, maybe a bayonet for basic defensive purposes.

there's a mod that has this its call Mount and Musket....
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 05, 2011, 10:45:28 pm
Mount and musket is fun for 10 minutes and then you realise that there is no persistence and that it is a reskinned native where you get to spend 80% of your playtime reloading, or having your horse shot from under you if you play cavalry.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Kafein on April 06, 2011, 12:01:08 am
Mount and musket is fun for 10 minutes and then you realise that there is no persistence and that it is a reskinned native where you get to spend 80% of your playtime reloading, or having your horse shot from under you if you play cavalry.

True. M&M mod is for granpa's unable to play melee. I played for a few hours and went topping the scoreboard each time I took cavalry with sabre and dismounted  :o
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 06, 2011, 05:32:01 am
Mount and musket is fun for 10 minutes and then you realise that there is no persistence and that it is a reskinned native where you get to spend 80% of your playtime reloading, or having your horse shot from under you if you play cavalry.

then why bring that here!!!???
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Peasant_Woman on April 06, 2011, 11:57:09 am
then why bring that here!!!???

It's already here, it's called the sniper crossbow. A very early gunpowder weapon themed to this time period would add some more flavor to this mod and not crazy muskets with bayonets, more like an Arquebus or early hand cannon. Almost the same damage as the sniper crossbow (but less, balance > realism), a fair bit more shot speed, less accuracy, heavy, extremely expensive, loud and producing a small smoke cloud that hangs around for 10-15seconds, painfully slow to reload (2x as long as sniper crossbow at least) and ability to reload requiring two weapon slots filled with otherwise useless items.

Character development wise its reload time/tiny boost to accuracy would scale with a new Weapon proficiency - Firearms or powder weaponry. For skill points either a new skill tied to str or requirements being powerdraw (requiring more than any bow, at 8 or 9 sounds about right) but gaining NO benefit from powerdraw, merely a requirement to use the weapon.

But! Peasant_Woman, why would anyone use such a weapon when sniper xbox is clearly the better weapon in every way except for shot speed?
FUN. Remember when making a special/unique/memorable character was all the enjoyment you needed in crpg, and not grinding to 31 over and over so you can have your +3 sword of peasant slaying badassery to help you pump your k/d ratio and continue living in your dreamworld where archery is cheating, throwers are noobs and shields are easymode? (Not aimed at anyone in paticular, more at the direction the mod is going.)
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Apostata on April 06, 2011, 12:19:33 pm
But! Peasant_Woman, why would anyone use such a weapon when sniper xbox is clearly the better weapon in every way except for shot speed?
FUN. Remember when making a special/unique/memorable character was all the enjoyment you needed in crpg, and not grinding to 31 over and over so you can have your +3 sword of peasant slaying badassery to help you pump your k/d ratio and continue living in your dreamworld where archery is cheating, throwers are noobs and shields are easymode? (Not aimed at anyone in paticular, more at the direction the mod is going.)

+1
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Glyph on April 06, 2011, 02:07:11 pm
+1 for peasent_woman
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Opium.dk on April 06, 2011, 02:27:36 pm
No.. I said no.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Hunter_the_Honourable on April 06, 2011, 05:23:42 pm
No.. I said no.

+1
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Paul on April 07, 2011, 10:30:06 am
chadz renewed his "no" to firearms in cRPG for sentimental reasons. Pool's closed, guys.
Title: Re: Adding firearms to cRPG
Post by: Belmont on April 07, 2011, 11:40:47 am
chadz renewed his "no" to firearms in cRPG for sentimental reasons. Pool's closed, guys.

Topic locked.