IMO the current pike is more than capable of fulfilling any role which this weapon would.Well, This isn't intended specifically for an anti-cav role. Also, it could be shorter like 400 length? 500 length was just a first draft I made but it may be too long, which is why I need the input.
I also think a weapon that long might look abit silly when coupled with the m&b polearm animations.
More variety is however always good so i wouldnt say no. Its just wether its really needed now that the LoC is gone
Nah, compare the Pike with the Great Lance. I think it's a fair match.No, I am suggesting a new weapon -- not changing the old pike.
Btw, will the pike lose it's overhead attack, for real? If yes, I will cry. :cry:
It's not even a pike, but a longer spear.
LEAVE PIKE ALOONEEE! Q_Q
Nice troll post.This is not a troll post, are you up to being mature enough to add constructive criticism?
400 range, lol.
No, I am suggesting a new weapon -- not changing the old pike.Art thou serious?
This is not a troll post, are you up to being mature enough to add constructive criticism?
You are aware if someone uses this in single combat you would just block down once while walking forward and after you get anywhere close; they CAN'T attack you since you are closer than their minimum distance.
Art thou serious?That would require all of them using the long pike to not have another weapon... you have to drop it not like a pike which can be sheathed.
Ye give everyone access to such a long polearm, that cavalry will be completely useless, even more than it is due to pike spam already!
...
Hm .... i think the actual pike is long enough against cav. :rolleyes:If someone wants the plain pike as a secondary with a primary use against cav, then he can use that. This would function as a dedicated weapon -- and not necessarily vs cav. I was primarily thinking of it's use as a support pikeman infantry.
I know you suggest a new weapon, but what do we use a Pike against? Cavalry, and infantry backup.Again I am not suggesting the removal of overhead for the current pike.
Check the longest Great Lance, it's almost as long as the Pike, maybe a bit shorter.
In melee combat, it can annoy the crap out of your foes if you are in a group.
A longer pike is not needed imo.
But still, the no overhead for the current pike is just dumb, it would reduce the usefulness of that weapon to shield+spear's.
300-350 max length IMO. Any longer and it will simply be unusable imo.This is the kind of constructive response I am looking for.
Give it more pierce, say 30 - 33 BUT it can't be used to block. For freaking obvious reasons. Make it truly a support class
not only would a pike longer than the current one be realistic, it would also look cool. The long pike as it is called looks awesome in other mods and widely evades the problem of rediculously long weapons that other weapons have.Do you guys realize that the "length" stat of the polearms written in your inventory window is not is not the actual length of the 3d model? For example, this is the weapon with a "length" of... hm... 160 cm, according to c-rpg.net. You can clearly see that 3d model of the halberd is obviously longer than 2 meters.
Long spears are needed too because atm
our spears are pretty much just WOODEN STAFFS WITH POINTS
Aside from the hellenic age over a thousand years before the mods 12th to 16th century weapon era, Spears were mainly a militia weapon during the medieval era, they didn't have phalangites in the 13th century, the war spear is as long as what would have been fielded
Lets clear this up. M&B in-game parameter reads: "weapon reach". It is the distance from the tip to the hand.The weapon would be too long to even spin thrust. Enemies would have to be ~a meter away to spin thrust them.
Imho the current pike provides plenty of reach for current needs. And there are a few game play reasons for the absence of super long pikes.
- A weapon with that much length would out-compete any lancer without any need for good footwork on pikemans behalf.
- Current animations for stab would be weird.
- Blocking with a weapon that long would look retarded.
- Fighting against a turtle... Spin around move with a stick that long? I think not...
Realistic? If we talking realism, I should be able to cut all the wood shafted weapons in half with my flamberge. Particularly pikes.
To each of your reasons...You really are over-estimating the capabilities of a long pike in single combat. It can't hit ANYONE within several feet of the user, EVEN SPIN THRUSTING. Chambering the weapon back will not pull the tip close enough to the user of the long pike even when spin thrusting. If you get close to them, they are a free kill. Once you step in the long pikes minimum range, the long pikeman can ONLY block. Also, it's attack speed is 70. 70. It has to be able to block or it can't be a dedicated weapon as intended. You are aware that a long pike user will move really slow due to it's weapon length, also.
-One direction of attack look at OP's game characters name and wonder if you can.Misunderstood still thats the point of pikes.
-How can one judge that w/o seeing i think it will look fine imo
-only valid point but a simple "can not block" tag will fix this if devs feel that way
-not a very well put point I can' tell what you mean if you mean they won't be able to fight against a turtle well good it needs a weakness. If you mean it can, I don't think a spin thrust would be very effective with that length anyways. In general this is a moot point.
Price: ~5800Result would be a slow but hardhitting and extremly long weapon, useless for 1 vs. 1 (yeah my old friends, deal with it) but perfect for a supporting class.
Weight: 3.5
Requirement: 11
Spd rating: 65
Weapon length: 350
Thrust damage: 25 Pierce - way more, I'd say 30-34 pierce
No swing. No overhead. Thrust only. how collision detection works, it can't have overhead.[/color]
Can not be used with shield.
Can not be used on horse.
Unbalanced.
Can not be sheathed. You drop it instead of put it away. Something like with how ladders are used in siege. This should not be capable for someone to pull out of their pocket, to prevent it from being abused by random non-dedicated characters for use against horses.
Also, as it is true that the M&B measuring system is not metric, the Pike in game is equivalent to that of a rather short pike; I am suggesting a thrust-only long pike that is well within what was actually used in real life while still being balanced in game.
I am not really sure Warband uses metric system.Sure, the length of all one-handed and two-handed weapons weapons fits into metric system perfectly, yet "it is true that the M&B measuring system is not metric".
Not true but only because the Swiss brought out the pike wall to counter the heavy cav based armys of the time, and totally revolutionized feudal warfare. The pike square was pretty much a new and improved version of the Phalanx.At the very beginning of their strugge, the Swiss used halberds, they started combining halberdiers with pikemen after they realized that a short halberd by itself couldn't serve as an effective anti-cavalry weapon. With time, pikemen to halberdiers ratio increased. So, it was not Swiss who "brought out the pike wall".
You really are over-estimating the capabilities of a long pike in single combat. It can't hit ANYONE within several feet of the user, EVEN SPIN THRUSTING. Chambering the weapon back will not pull the tip close enough to the user of the long pike even when spin thrusting. If you get close to them, they are a free kill. Once you step in the long pikes minimum range, the long pikeman can ONLY block. Also, it's attack speed is 70. 70. It has to be able to block or it can't be a dedicated weapon as intended. You are aware that a long pike user will move really slow due to it's weapon length, also.
I put a lot of thought into balancing it before the initial post. However, Until people can agree on a length I wouldn't make a model.
I think you underestimate the spin thrusting, you can hit and kill with barely past your hand with any weapons thrust if you spin properly.That is because currently all the pole arms are short enough to pull the tip close enough to the user (including the standard Pike). This wouldn't get close enough to spin thrust within a couple feet.
Spin thrusting is still an issue for all that are in range (even if thats the case). You can thrust at one guy who blocks down and gets sideslashed by teammate and twist it into a guy that didn't see you - you just killed two people with a single stab.
So effectively you enganger 180° if you hold pike down. They can all downblock, no problem, but how are they going to fight your teammates then? Pikes and other weapons are good enough for teamsupport imo, a higher reach pike would just be tedious as this long pike man is certainly not at any risk to be killed as long as he has teammates there. Even in 1vs1 you are in no way gimped, because even the pike is long enough to pull out a hafted blade before he gets in reach.
The point was not using spinthrust against a facehugger 1vs1 but against someone at optimum range. I did this often enough, taking one or two down from a triple gang on me with only a lance. Fake attack at one turn it into the other guy who stops blocking. And then I died as the last one spammed me.You just brought up a good point, if it is capable to thrust through a teammate flat out that would not work, if that IS the case (dev post required on hitbox issue) then it may be only capable of being 300 to 325 length.
The point being if you have one pikeman in a group and fight someone else you always have to expect getting that pike into the side. So the pikeman destroys melee capability of all enemies in his range. The pike (and similar weapons) are good enough for this already, just look at how many kills a good pikeman can get, and that's discounting all the guys that died because they downblocked the pike only to be sideslashed. A longer weapon (I don't know how you get 55 I read 350 in OP) just means he can endanger more while being perfectly save. If Marathon is actually right about the hitboxes wouldn't this also mean that he can thrust directly through his teammates with no risk of teamhurt?
The other thing is that "this weapon is useless when they get close" is not really a problem. My bow has speed 50, can't block or even chamber, heck I get staggered when they touch me, but I kill people from facehug range all the time. It's not like you can't carry a secondary weapon.
Needs to be tested...+1
You just brought up a good point, if it is capable to thrust through a teammate flat out that would not work, if that IS the case (dev post required on hitbox issue) then it may be only capable of being 300 to 325 length.
Needs to be tested...
The two-handed polearm thrust animation will pass through solid objects directly next to the attacking character and hit objects on the other side with a weapon of 300+ length. I suspect this is why the pike was made the length that it currently is. You can test for yourself by modifying the item_kinds1.txt file in the native module. For example, to modify the pike change the lineThis is true: WE can't have pole arms this long due to hitboxes. Thread locking time.
itm_pike Pike Pike 1 spear_a_3m 0 409272324 4222124851987200 125 8202 3.000000 100 0 0 0 0 16384 81 0 245 0 282 528
to
itm_pike Pike Pike 1 spear_a_3m 0 409272324 4222124851987200 125 8202 3.000000 100 0 0 0 0 16384 81 0 300 0 282 528
The pike will look the same, but will be listed as 300 length in your inventory or in a shop. Stand next to a towns person or tree and thrust through them without clipping. You could do the same with any polearm you already have on hand.