cRPG
cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Dualhammers on March 24, 2011, 03:32:23 am
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I trawled the build thread but no comments on the effectiveness of the 1h builds I found.
Anyone willing to throw out a decent cookie-cutter build so I can try an alternative to 2h?
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My current build @ lvl 30 is:
Strength 21
Agility 15
2 pts converted
One Handed 146
Ironflesh 7
Power Strike 7
Shield 5
Athletics 5
Weapon master 5
I think the real cookie cutter is 18/18 and from there the obvious str or agi lean right. I personally like str for the lasting power of extra hp and IF.
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My shielder/cav alt's (I don't like shielders, they die far too often and are only good for soaker arrows imo) build is....
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Hit points: 53
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 6
Athletics: 5
Riding: 6
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 6
One Handed: 100
Two Handed: 2
Polearm: 135
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
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My current build @ lvl 30 is:
Strength 21
Agility 15
2 pts converted
One Handed 146
Ironflesh 7
Power Strike 7
Shield 5
Athletics 5
Weapon master 5
I think the real cookie cutter is 18/18 and from there the obvious str or agi lean right. I personally like str for the lasting power of extra hp and IF.
This is what I use, it is the ultimate build in my opinion
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I used to play 2hander exclusively myself - however since my last retire I've been playing as a shielder and I've found that a 18/18 build works out pretty well. The two things you REALLY want alot of are shield-skill and most importantly athletics. Your weapons are shorter and shields are heavier so you really need the athletics to be able to get in there and do some damage. I think footwork is MUCH more important for shielders than two-handers, (if you want to do well, at least).
I went for this build, which is hybridized around 1h+shield and lancer cavalry. This left me with 134 in 1h and 96 in polearm.
Ironflesh 0
Power Strike 6
Shield 5
Athletics 6
Riding 6
Weapon master * 6
If you don't care about riding, I'd say drop the 6 riding points into Ironflesh, otherwise don't bother: Ironflesh is a luxury, not a necessity for shielders.
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Stokes, wouldn't 6 shield be better than 6 athletics to use the steel shields?
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I have tried a few generations of the 1hand+shield build. The one I have enjoyed the most is at lvl 30
27str
12agil
2IF (did not know what else to do with the points)
9PS
4Ath
4Shield
4WM
All wpf in 1 handed. I do pretty well with it in most cases.
not really sure how many I converted.
Bale Ohay
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IF is one of the most underrated skills imo. I think it's a necessity for any balanced or str build. But you're right, if you're going riding or throwing you can't have everything. This time around I wanted to max out my hp's and 1 hand wpf so I found that my build was the most viable to do so. Shield skill can stay at 5 imo (even 4), no need to go 6 as they're just laying aorund everywhere - but then again I have never tried a steel shield.
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I noticed that steel shields were the hardest for me to crushthrough when I was a gay bar mace crutcher.
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The sidestep is the only defence against crushthrough afaik, unless of course a steel shield works which it prob does. Typically there isn't even enough time to put your shield on your back when they pull out that hammer in hopes of parrying the attack.
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Stokes, wouldn't 6 shield be better than 6 athletics to use the steel shields?
The sidestep is the only defence against crushthrough afaik, unless of course a steel shield works which it prob does. Typically there isn't even enough time to put your shield on your back when they pull out that hammer in hopes of parrying the attack.
Yes, this is why I chose one more athletics over one more shield: I'd rather be mobile... plus my shield rarely breaks with 5 shield, unless it's an axe... and I don't even use the Huscarl shield. I play a very OFFENSIVE shielder, I try not to crutch on my shield and turtle. I prefer pressing the attack and using the shield reactively.
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I chose the battle axe to heirloom after a long debate and honestly just to be a little different. Almost 3rd heirloom, 4 million xp to go. I turtle...I admit it...I'm that guy.
But tbh there are these magic moments where I just charge into a group and start dropping people left and right until they all close in on me and I go down fighting. The feeling behind ownering 3 or 4 people in like 4-5 seconds is sublime.
Then of course there are those moments I'm turtled behind muhammad ali (Rhade) and I know I can't get a shot in without getting hit, I have a fraction of life left and I'm just waiting with my finger on the tilde 360 degree watching for a life line to come running to help - backing towards any wall wondering why I only put 4 or 5 pts into shield...
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My 1h/shielder:
Age 45 [30]
Skill Points 1
Converted: 2
Strength 24
Agility 12
One Handed 138
Ironflesh 8
Power Strike 8
Shield 4
Athletics 4
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 0
Weapon master * 4
My shield rarely breaks when I'm using a huscarl shield. With elite cavalry shield it breaks in 2 hits from the top tier polearms.
I play very offensive most of the time, 8 IF makes sure I can take some hits and the 8 PS makes sure I drop anything I attack in 2-3 hits at most.
I can even play this build effectively with a steel pick, you just need a fast weapon to make up for the lack of agility/wpf.
It's most effective during sieges, with heavy armour and a huscarl shield. You can be the guy holding the line, while your teammate 2h/polearmers kill anything trying to get past you.
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With elite cavalry shield it breaks in 2 hits from the top tier polearms.
I want to play as a shielder next gen and I want use my l. Espada Eslavona, is this a good combo (Espada+elite cav. shield)? Is the elite cav. shield a good allround shield? Cause I don't want to use the huscarl, it's totally op and you can't use it on the horseback.
edit: 2 hits do not sound that well. I saw huscarls taking 15 - 20 hits from poleaxes and such stuff without breaking.
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MY perfect one hander
* Strength: 15
* Agility: 21
* Hit points: 56
* Converted: 2
* Ironflesh: 3
* Power Strike: 5
* Shield: 7
* Athletics: 7
* Riding: 0
* Horse Archery: 0
* Power Draw: 0
* Power Throw: 0
* Weapon Master: 7
* One Handed: 164
* Two Handed: 1
* Polearm: 1
* Archery: 1
* Crossbow: 1
* Throwing: 1
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Don´t forget :
Weapons with Bonus against shields ignore the body armor of shields , so a steel shield with 69 body armor and 225 hit points breaks much faster , than a fur covered shield , with only 5 body armor , but 600 hit points ( Only hitpoints counts against bonus shieldbreaker weapons ) .
And if you want to react fast , and want to be able to counterattack , without being hit if you drop shield cover , you must be fast !
Fast means : Low armor ( Low weight ) , fast shield , high points on shield ( that thing i haven´t tested enough yet .... maybe 3-4 points are enough too, must be tested if higher points on shield let react you faster ) , fast 1h weapon ( i think 98+ spd. minimum , better 100+ spd. ) , very high wpf ( 160+ helps ) , and high athletic ( 7+ ) .
Otherwise .... you will just get spammed to death ... 1 on 1 with a fast 2h .
So .... something like Zorros build looks good , i think.
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Yeah right i was everytime in battle in top 5 with balanced champion sword and a heavy broad axe
but now im a 2 hander, i search now for a perfect 2hand build, but i know the perfect 1hander :D
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Maybe i try this build next time i make a char 1h/shield :
( At Lvl 31 ! Not 30 )
Strength: 12
Agility: 27
Hit points: 47
Converted: 6
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 4
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 9
One Handed: 182
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
And he would use side sword ( EDIT : or Long Espada Eslavona cause of more pierce dam. ) , and orange/brown heater shield ( 410 hitpoints ) . That would be an active fast shielder. It would make not so much damage as str. build, but can react and counterattack. Low weight is importend too , like 2,5 weight on body armor( Gambeson or something ). But get a good helmet around 40 armor , and mail gauntlets, or something.
This char should take 1 hit .... but at the second you die ;-)
If you like to be more defensive, try a str. build with huscarl. The Huscarl gives better protection against arrows , and hits from the side. With this build you can get more armor too. Your slower ... but more hitpoints , and can take 2-3 hits before you die ...
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No bonus against shield DOESN'T ignore shield armor but deals double or more damage.
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My 1h build:
Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)
* Strength: 18
* Agility: 21
* Hit points: 53
* Converted: 6
* Power Strike: 6
* Shield: 7
* Athletics: 7
* Weapon Master: 6
* One Handed: 157
It's a level 31 build because this is an alt that I don't plan to ever retire.
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No bonus against shield DOESN'T ignore shield armor but deals double or more damage.
The result is the same : against shield crackers a steel shield cracks twice as fast as something with over 400 hitpoints no matter how much body armor the 400+ hitpoints shield has. Even with only 5 body armor ( and 600 hitpoints ) it lasts much longer , than the steel shield ..... test it ! I have tested it too , on duel servers. Couldn´t belive that a steel shield breaks so fast , but i have tested it. About 5 hits , and the steel shield was cracked , by a bonus against shield weapon. It was a 2h axe or something. The shields with much less body armor, but more hitpoints (400+ ) are better against shield crackers ;-)
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I want to play as a shielder next gen and I want use my l. Espada Eslavona, is this a good combo (Espada+elite cav. shield)? Is the elite cav. shield a good allround shield? Cause I don't want to use the huscarl, it's totally op and you can't use it on the horseback.
edit: 2 hits do not sound that well. I saw huscarls taking 15 - 20 hits from poleaxes and such stuff without breaking.
Huscarlshields do not take 15-20 hits from poleaxes/GLA/GLB and the like. Not even with a tripple heirloomed shield with 9 shieldskill.
The long espada with elite cav is a nice combination. Just learn how to manual block a bit and you're fine.
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make my build 4 shield is to low, youre to slow with the shields and the shield broke fast at 4 and why do you plan with lvl 31(at this lvl i retire !!)
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Hm .... maybe Zorro´s advice is right , with high shield points ...
What would you think about such a 1h/shield build ?
( at 30 )
Strength: 12
Agility: 24
Hit points: 49
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 1
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 8
Athletics: 8
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 173
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
I like to be fast on foot to run around and act/react , what is around me on the battlefield.
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nice but i think not to much life and damage 160 one handed is enough or you want a spamer xD
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My perfect 1h shielder:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 9
Agility: 27
Hit points: 44
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 9
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 173
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Why perfect? With steel shield, youre immune to:
- crushthrough, because weight of your shield doesnt allow anyone to crushthroughblock you;
- hits of weapons without "bonus against shield";
- arrows are not going to destroy your shield untill about 1000 of them hit it;
- bolts same, + bolts cant pass steel shield, even from triple heirloomed sniper with triple heirloomed bolts. NEVER;
Usually, your shield won't break, because of above. if it comes to axes: you can play offensively against them and "facehug" them with 9 athletics - if someone is going to break your shield with axe, he should have at least 8 PS - so approx. 5 athl. you can use this advantage! also, why at least 8 ps? because:
Axes do double damage to shields, everything else works as normal.
and since you have +90% to shield resistance from shield skill 9, we can do some maths:
69shieldresistance*190%~~131
Shield resistance works as armor resistance (body, head, leg), so:
from best shield cutter weapon:
47, cut*2=94
Shield can "negate" dmg: at least 50% of resistance, approx 100%
so:
max dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 100% - 131 * 50% ~~ 192dmg - 65res(minimum!) ~~ 126dmg
Its the worst scenario. Your Steel Shield *unheirloomed* has 225 hp points. Again, its the worst scenario: full power of your opponent dmg (it can be rolled to only 50% if enemy has bad luck, max to 100% of dmg if he is lucky, and dmg is calculated this way: dmg*(psamount*8)% * rolled %(from 50 to 100)
OK, we have worst scenario. Now if youre lucky:
min dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 50% - 131 * 100% ~~ 96dmg - 131res = shield doesnt receive dmg. From shields cutter. Think about regular weapons without bonus to shield. They suck against you. :)
PS I dont include speed bonuses in my maths, because its senseless: 13PS guy wont be too fast, for sure. And you can backpedal to decrease his axe dmg!
Oh, and i should add one thing. I think, weapons have to do at least 1 dmg to your shield, for sure. So regular 2 handers will do 1dmg/per hit to your shield. As for arrows, im not sure. Actually, why would you ask about arrows? almost noone owns 3 quivers of regular arrows (28arrowsperquiver*3=84), and normal, "wise" archer uses 2 quivers of bodkins (16arrowsperquiver*2=32). 32 dmg lost, wow. Also, remember: you have 9 athletics, you can get archer before he shot his fifth arrow at you.
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Huscarlshields do not take 15-20 hits from poleaxes/GLA/GLB and the like. Not even with a tripple heirloomed shield with 9 shieldskill.
The long espada with elite cav is a nice combination. Just learn how to manual block a bit and you're fine.
Well, thats just what I saw. Last round, 10 people chasing the last enemy, bashing his huscarlshield and I counted at least 10 or 15 hits till it broke.
I'm playing 2h at the moment, so yes, I can manual block a bit. :D
I focus on the style, I don't want to top the scoreboards, if so I would use huscarlshield and the lightsaber-sidesword. Elite cav. shield and my long espada should look fine. :)
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My perfect 1h shielder:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 9
Agility: 27
Hit points: 44
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 9
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 173
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Why perfect? With steel shield, youre immune to:
- crushthrough, because weight of your shield doesnt allow anyone to crushthroughblock you;
- hits of weapons without "bonus against shield";
- arrows are not going to destroy your shield untill about 1000 of them hit it;
- bolts same, + bolts cant pass steel shield, even from triple heirloomed sniper with triple heirloomed bolts. NEVER;
Usually, your shield won't break, because of above. if it comes to axes: you can play offensively against them and "facehug" them with 9 athletics - if someone is going to break your shield with axe, he should have at least 8 PS - so approx. 5 athl. you can use this advantage! also, why at least 8 ps? because:
and since you have +90% to shield resistance from shield skill 9, we can do some maths:
69shieldresistance*190%~~131
Shield resistance works as armor resistance (body, head, leg), so:
from best shield cutter weapon:
47, cut*2=94
Shield can "negate" dmg: at least 50% of resistance, approx 100%
so:
max dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 100% - 131 * 50% ~~ 192dmg - 65res(minimum!) ~~ 126dmg
Its the worst scenario. Your Steel Shield *unheirloomed* has 225 hp points. Again, its the worst scenario: full power of your opponent dmg (it can be rolled to only 50% if enemy has bad luck, max to 100% of dmg if he is lucky, and dmg is calculated this way: dmg*(psamount*8)% * rolled %(from 50 to 100)
OK, we have worst scenario. Now if youre lucky:
min dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 50% - 131 * 100% ~~ 96dmg - 131res = shield doesnt receive dmg. From shields cutter. Think about regular weapons without bonus to shield. They suck against you. :)
PS I dont include speed bonuses in my maths, because its senseless: 13PS guy wont be too fast, for sure. And you can backpedal to decrease his axe dmg!
Oh, and i should add one thing. I think, weapons have to do at least 1 dmg to your shield, for sure. So regular 2 handers will do 1dmg/per hit to your shield. As for arrows, im not sure. Actually, why would you ask about arrows? almost noone owns 3 quivers of regular arrows (28arrowsperquiver*3=84), and normal, "wise" archer uses 2 quivers of bodkins (16arrowsperquiver*2=32). 32 dmg lost, wow. Also, remember: you have 9 athletics, you can get archer before he shot his fifth arrow at you.
Looks nice. Might try that next gen.
Which weapon do you use to make up for the 3 PS and the "bounce of death"?
And how much does the weight of the steel shield slow you down while running?
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I use Niuweidao. 33 cut. You know, I just dont like to thrust. But you might try some other 1handers, like Knightly arming sword, if you like such look and like to thrust a bit.
As for shield:
You know, it slows you down, for sure, but with 9 athletics you dont actually see that. Of course, you CAN and you ARE faster than regular 2h builds with 15 agi :)
Athletics help a bit, too.
And with Niuweidao, I am not bouncing, especially if i move forward when i attack.
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I will most likely use my MW sidesword I guess. I just checked and it's requirement is just 8 strength :lol:
36 cut damage+103 speed+27 agility+Indestructible steel shield
DAMN!
Can't use any decent armour with 9 strength anyway, so it's easily affordable.
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it's easily affordable.
Ofc it is :)
I'd say it is one of the most efficient, effective and cheap builds. Especially, if you know how to feint and swing with your sword. You just have to play carefully with your shield: remember, it is slower than others, so if you want to feint, you have to be sure that you are not fighting lots of fast people.
But anyway, you can also just hold block most of the time and just attack from time to time, and your shield will live really long ;)
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Ofc it is :)
I'd say it is one of the most efficient, effective and cheap builds. Especially, if you know how to feint and swing with your sword. You just have to play carefully with your shield: remember, it is slower than others, so if you want to feint, you have to be sure that you are not fighting lots of fast people.
But anyway, you can also just hold block most of the time and just attack from time to time, and your shield will live really long ;)
I wouldn't call it cheap :P
Steel Shield 10422
Side Sword 8922
Byrnie 3705 (heaviest body armour)
Nordic Fighter Helmet 1775
Mail Gauntlets 3427
Leather Boots 363 (I refuse to wear strange boots)
Total: 28614 gold
Perfectly possible to make money with that loadout and it's about the best defense you can get with 9 strenght. Not sure if you should bother with armour at all, since you will get 1 hit killed anyway. It might take an extra arrow to kill you or something. Not sure.
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Perfectly possible to make money with that loadout and it's about the best defense you can get with 9 strenght. Not sure if you should bother with armour at all, since you will get 1 hit killed anyway. It might take an extra arrow to kill you or something. Not sure.
Armor still prevents grazing/light hits from dealing damage to you. With 9 athletics you'll be able to avoid a lot of swings, or move into a range where they're out of their weapon's sweet spot and are likely to bump. A little bit of armor turns those 10-20 damage grazing swings to zero damage and prevents minor damage like this from adding up on you to be a problem. Don't underestimate it :)
Also, I might consider using a steel pick with this sort of build. You'll easily control range and don't need to worry about crushthrough, so the short range isn't a problem for you. With the lack of PS you'll get a lot more effective damage with the pick.
I think with 3 PS you'd bump a lot, even with a MW side sword. With great footwork and timing your speed bonus could make up for it, perhaps, but the steel pick would be a lot more forgiving of 3PS bumping swings.
Personally, though, I agree with the 21/15 7PS 5Agi skills build template, with either 7 IF or 7 PT, depending on which you prefer.
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3PS? Steel Pick? While it needs 12 str? Impossible, you got to give up 27 and go for 24 agi.
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My mistake. I've never had a build with such low strength that I had to worry about the requirement on a steel pick, so I had just made the assumption it was light enough to be used in such a build.
How do you deal with the problem of having virtually no killing power against armor if you're not at full speed?
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9 athletics fix the problem. Youre gaining full speed in about 1sec to 0,8sec.
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Sure, but it doesn't take anywhere near a second to swing your weapon, and you're going to run into many situations where there isn't room to just constantly keep running at full speed while fighting. I think that this build is designed to have a lot of trouble with the currently popular high strength tanks, as they will take many hits to take down and will only need one swing to land to overkill you by a lot of HP.
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Sure, but it doesn't take anywhere near a second to swing your weapon, and you're going to run into many situations where there isn't room to just constantly keep running at full speed while fighting. I think that this build is designed to have a lot of trouble with the currently popular high strength tanks, as they will take many hits to take down and will only need one swing to land to overkill you by a lot of HP.
That's indeed it's weakness. The high agility build will most likely perform better on the battle/duel servers than on the siege servers.
My 24/12 build I posted is made more for the siege server.
Armor still prevents grazing/light hits from dealing damage to you. With 9 athletics you'll be able to avoid a lot of swings, or move into a range where they're out of their weapon's sweet spot and are likely to bump. A little bit of armor turns those 10-20 damage grazing swings to zero damage and prevents minor damage like this from adding up on you to be a problem. Don't underestimate it :)
All 2h/polearm weapons will kill you in 1 or 2 hits regardless of hitting out of their sweetspot. They will not bump on 3.7k mail armour.
I think with 3 PS you'd bump a lot, even with a MW side sword. With great footwork and timing your speed bonus could make up for it, perhaps, but the steel pick would be a lot more forgiving of 3PS bumping swings.
That's why I would prefer the stabbing weapon, with 9 athletics you can jump back and run in with a thrust for high speedbonus. You have to be really carefull with sideswing though. Right to left swings will bounce often.
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Thanks for this guys! A really pleasant surprise to see three pages today. Nice to have people offer advice in the newbie section rather than insult me for not searching and just living with whatever unhelpful information already existed.
Once I retire my 2H I will probably try one of these builds.
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Strength 24
Agility 9
One Handed 124 [7 WPF cost]
Two Handed 1 [1 WPF cost]
Polearm 1 [1 WPF cost]
Archery 1 [1 WPF cost]
Crossbow 1 [1 WPF cost]
Throwing 1 [1 WPF cost]
Ironflesh 8
Power Strike 8
Shield 0
Athletics 3
Riding 0
Horse Archery 0
Power Draw 0
Power Throw 0
Weapon master * 3
And keep pumping STR
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Maybe I can plug in here:
I'm getting close to lvl 31 now, and I wonder what I should heirloom. My current build is 2h, but the next one will be a 1h (too much rage with all the throwing and shooting around).
Now I'm thinking about preemptively buying a good 1h sword and heirlooming that for use next generation.
Maybe a Longsword, can be used 1h and 2h (I guess it's slower than 98 in 1h mode though)?
Or a Knightly Arming Sword, or Nordic Champion's?
I've heard that the sidesword is supposed to be nerfed in the next patch, and knowing my luck the patch would come out a day after I got it, lol.
And this is the kind of build I have in mind for the 1h (want to use heavy armor, so I'm saving the Ironflesh this time)
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* Strength: 15
* Agility: 24
* Hit points: 50
* Converted: 6
* Ironflesh: 0
* Power Strike: 5
* Shield: 6
* Athletics: 7
* Riding: 0
* Horse Archery: 0
* Power Draw: 0
* Power Throw: 0
* Weapon Master: 8
* One Handed: 174
* Two Handed: 1
* Polearm: 1
* Archery: 1
* Crossbow: 1
* Throwing: 1
Input greatly appreciated!
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And this is the kind of build I have in mind for the 1h (want to use heavy armor, so I'm saving the Ironflesh this time)
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* Strength: 15
* Agility: 24
* Hit points: 50
* Converted: 6
* Ironflesh: 0
* Power Strike: 5
* Shield: 6
* Athletics: 7
* Riding: 0
* Horse Archery: 0
* Power Draw: 0
* Power Throw: 0
* Weapon Master: 8
* One Handed: 174
* Two Handed: 1
* Polearm: 1
* Archery: 1
* Crossbow: 1
* Throwing: 1
Input greatly appreciated!
My advice:
Don't use heavy armour with high agility. It will slow you down so much you won't take much advantage of your high agility.
If you do want to use heavy armour regularly, get IF. It really helps when you have high armour.
The build looks great, personally I would take 8 athletics and 7 WM.
For swords: There are plenty of threads about, it's mostly a matter of preference if you take anything other than a sidesword. Each has it's pro's and con's.
I do think the knightly arming sword starts out at -1 cut compared with the NCS, but at masterwork they both have the same cut damage with the knightly arming sword having much higher thrust damage.
Not sure about that though.
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My perfect 1h shielder:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 9
Agility: 27
Hit points: 44
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 0
Power Strike: 3
Shield: 9
Athletics: 9
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 8
One Handed: 173
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
Why perfect? With steel shield, youre immune to:
- crushthrough, because weight of your shield doesnt allow anyone to crushthroughblock you;
- hits of weapons without "bonus against shield";
- arrows are not going to destroy your shield untill about 1000 of them hit it;
- bolts same, + bolts cant pass steel shield, even from triple heirloomed sniper with triple heirloomed bolts. NEVER;
Usually, your shield won't break, because of above. if it comes to axes: you can play offensively against them and "facehug" them with 9 athletics - if someone is going to break your shield with axe, he should have at least 8 PS - so approx. 5 athl. you can use this advantage! also, why at least 8 ps? because:
and since you have +90% to shield resistance from shield skill 9, we can do some maths:
69shieldresistance*190%~~131
Shield resistance works as armor resistance (body, head, leg), so:
from best shield cutter weapon:
47, cut*2=94
Shield can "negate" dmg: at least 50% of resistance, approx 100%
so:
max dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 100% - 131 * 50% ~~ 192dmg - 65res(minimum!) ~~ 126dmg
Its the worst scenario. Your Steel Shield *unheirloomed* has 225 hp points. Again, its the worst scenario: full power of your opponent dmg (it can be rolled to only 50% if enemy has bad luck, max to 100% of dmg if he is lucky, and dmg is calculated this way: dmg*(psamount*8)% * rolled %(from 50 to 100)
OK, we have worst scenario. Now if youre lucky:
min dmg: 94dmg * (8*13PS)% * 50% - 131 * 100% ~~ 96dmg - 131res = shield doesnt receive dmg. From shields cutter. Think about regular weapons without bonus to shield. They suck against you. :)
PS I dont include speed bonuses in my maths, because its senseless: 13PS guy wont be too fast, for sure. And you can backpedal to decrease his axe dmg!
Oh, and i should add one thing. I think, weapons have to do at least 1 dmg to your shield, for sure. So regular 2 handers will do 1dmg/per hit to your shield. As for arrows, im not sure. Actually, why would you ask about arrows? almost noone owns 3 quivers of regular arrows (28arrowsperquiver*3=84), and normal, "wise" archer uses 2 quivers of bodkins (16arrowsperquiver*2=32). 32 dmg lost, wow. Also, remember: you have 9 athletics, you can get archer before he shot his fifth arrow at you.
Personally for me this build is a little too slow with the heavy steel shield ( which is expensive too , high repair cost ) , and 3ps are a little too weak against high armor players. Especially with cut damage.
4ps is low too , but i thought about taking the long espada eslavona , which is flexible in what damage you choose. cut/pierce against low/medium armor. mainly pierce against high armor about 55-60.
So for me a build like this ....
Lvl 30 :
Strength: 12
Agility: 24
Hit points: 51
Converted: 2
Ironflesh: 2
Power Strike: 4
Shield: 8
Athletics: 8
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 7
One Handed: 164
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
... is fine for me.
Steel shield is too expensive and weak against shield crackers ( 225 hitpoints are too low for shield fighters ) .... and slow .... and heavy .... 4 points against it ...
The 410 hp heater shield is cheaper , faster , lighter and has more hitpoints ( better against shield crackers ).
Edit :
@ Bosco : I think Spawny´s advice is good. In this case 8 Athletic is more important , than 8 wm. And about the sword i have written something in my post too ... Long Espada Eslavona has long range for 1h , but 98 speed isn´t too slow. the 28 pierce can be good against high armor players. Especially if you heirloome it and get more and more damage ( pierce too ).
And Bosco ... is yours a lvl 30 or 31 build ? Looks like 31 for me ;-) I made the same mistake at the beginning , because with lvl 31 you will heirloome most of the time ( at least 3 times ) . You play lvl 30 a long time. Lvl 31 ... i just retire ;-)
Edit 2 : And Spawny´s second advice is right too : Don´t use heavy armor , with a high agi build, because you have a shield. Don´tget hit is the advice ;-) Be fast ! Shielders are at the front. At the front we die anyway. But take some with you. ;-)
A little advice from me , for the armor thing : Use a light armor like padded leather ( 4,5 weight ) , or Gambeson ( 2,5 weight ) and combine it with Mail Gauntlets ( 0,5 weight , but +6 body armor ) and use a medium helmet like nordic helmet , or nordic huscarl 38-40 armor. With this armor you are not too slow, if you get a medium shield, with high hitpoints ( around 400 ). But it should be a fast shield 96+ . Don´t use too heavy boots. Try to strafe and dodge if archers try to shoot your feet.
It´s a funny build and playstyle. :-)
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Thank you Spawny and Sean, I'll take your advice into consideration!
I'm an armor whore, so I'll see that I get some ironflesh up in the mix.
Wrt Athletics:
With my current Athletics 5 on 2h and wearing Transitional while carrying 3 weapons + shield, I still outrun most people with light armor. :o
Running speed with shield up is set by Shield skill, right?
However, my attack speed is mediocre with 154wpf, and I thought that depended on the wpf, hence going for 8 WM?
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21:15
Steel pick
1 hit as many mofo's as you want.
Agi build should take warhammer. Blunt is great against all and knock down will win you alot of fights.
A more balanced build should use swords IMO
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Thank you Spawny and Sean, I'll take your advice into consideration!
I'm an armor whore, so I'll see that I get some ironflesh up in the mix.
Wrt Athletics:
With my current Athletics 5 on 2h and wearing Transitional while carrying 3 weapons + shield, I still outrun most people with light armor. :o
Running speed with shield up is set by Shield skill, right?
However, my attack speed is mediocre with 154wpf, and I thought that depended on the wpf, hence going for 8 WM?
Some information posted not too long ago by WaltF4 about running speed and the effects of weight:
Click me!! (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html)
Weight also decreases your effective wpf. That's why you feel so slow with 154 wpf in heavy armour. Try it with a gambeson and you'll feel the difference.
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That looks like a quality read, thanks!
That makes sense, however I thought I may be able to counter the weight effect by going for a high WPF, hehe.
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The build that works best for my playstyle is strength 21 and agility 18. I dont use armor with this char. But the shield makes her very very slow so that a 2h/polearm tincan is as fast as my shieldmaiden.
When you want to use armor, well, good luck against crushthroughers, unarmored 2h/polearms and with catching archers.
Do you play NA? EU, the best (or at least most of them) shielders dont use armor. No armor means you can compensate the less athletics and the shield extra weight you have to deal and live with. But the power strike 7 is necessary. Keep in mind, your shield cant take many hits. With only 3 power strike you would have to hit a tincan 5,6,7 or more times perfectly to kill him while he needs 1 lucky hit on you to insta kill you.
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Great thread. Some good advice in here.
On armor for shielders: i often switch between the leather and the chain armors. After going back and forth between Sarranid leather armor (weight 4,5) and Heralic chain (weight 13,5) a lot, i still prefer the chainmail most of the time. It all kinda depends on how likely it is i'm gonna get shot.
The bigger, chaotic battles warrant medium to heavy armor for me. Smaller battles and duel type fights are easier with the leather armor.
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Great thread. I do have one more question.
What is the difference in playstyle on a 1h if you go strength focus vs agility focus? Is it vastly different in how many 1-hit kills you get vs your defensive mobility?
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The playstyle is completely different between strength shielders and agility shielders. High Strength shielders are like main battle tanks that two hit everyone but can't chase people down and are Forced to fight it out, while High Agiility shielders take targets of opportunity and have shields that can soak up tons of damage.
Oh, and if you are using a shield don't put on heavy armor please. If you are a strength build, enjoy being molasses. If you are agility then you are destroying your speed advantage. Besides, THE SHIELD IS YOUR ARMOR!
All these people talking about glances don't use footwork to enhance their damage properly. Also, if a weapon is side-swinging at you, if you run in the direction it is traveling it can hit you in the back and glance off even a dress if you get out of the way of the sweet spot.
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@ Dualhammers :
Marathon explained it very good.
Another thing : Agi Builds can counterattack most fast spammers. If your slow , you may have problems with fast spammers who hit your shield like crazy. If you want to hit and drop your shield, a fast spammer is able to hit you before you can hit him ( spam style ). As agi build in light armor , your fast enough ( fast means : about 160wpf+ , fast 1h weapon 98+ spd and fast shield ) to counterattack , before his second hit comes in ... ... most of the time .... ;-)
On the other side, without great armor , 1 or 2hits can kill you. But who cares ? We die anyway ;-) Try not to be hit ;-)
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Taking my habit of ending up in the middle of multiple enemies by myself into account, I'm gonna go for 21/15 this time.
Heirloomed a Knightly Arming Sword, seems to work quite well so far. Gonna try out the steel pick later on.
PS:
This is the impression I'm going for. :P
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Nice picture Bosco !
I know what you mean.
If 3-5 enemies are needed to kill you , and you make them problems to do that , even if they try to surround you , it´s fun every second , you survive that , and every one you take with you. But it´s even more fun if your fast enough to dodge their attacks a little more ;-)