cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Quirian on March 23, 2011, 02:30:07 pm
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I suggest making Powerstrike the difficulty of melee weapons. I think this will bring more balance to this game. No more 30 AGI 6 STR guy wielding (insert any weapon). No more archer who pulls out flamberge and long maul.
Simply said, those who have power strike benefit from it. Bows need Power Draw, Horses need riding, Throwing weapons need Power throw. So why not make melee weapons use Power Strike. I am not talking about ultra high amounts of it. Just instead of 15 STR you need 5 PS.
Also this will maybe reduce the number of hybrids that are able to throw, shoot xbows and fight in melee decent too.
Discuss
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+1
agreed, although I think but some weapons still should be usable with str alone, just not the good ones.
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+1 definitely.
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+1
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This was suggested many times and I agree, but also the requirement on some weapons need to be increased, whether they require str or PS. For example 10 str for Long Hafted Blade or 8 str for Side Sword it's just ridiculous.
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Agree.
Some weapons would require 0, or 1 (like shields). The better weapons should need more.
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Yeah, the low tier weapons should be useable for everyone:
Difficulty for melee weapons should be:
Current Difficulty in STR /3 always rounded down.
For instance:
Trident
Requirement 2/3=0,66 rounded down = 0
Of course this would need a few adjustments with some weapons (Scythe should be useable for every peasant :D )
But for example to use a long hafted blade which is pretty fast even without wpf (I am using it myself) would need 3 Powerstrike (10/3=3,33->3)
I think this would bring pretty much balance into this game.
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Like the idea, but of course you have to be able to wield weapons like pitchfork even with 0 ps.
Let ps needed = (requirement_of_weapon / 3)-1
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The fine tuning is not the difficult part its some basic maths, if needed I can divide all requirements by three and adjust them properly for peasant usage too.
I'd like to hear some developers opinion on this, can't be too hard to implement (pretty much the same with bows, throwing, shields.
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+1, I have already suggested it. Good idea.
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Very good thread. I support.
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Obv. +1
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This was suggested many times and I agree, but also the requirement on some weapons need to be increased, whether they require str or PS. For example 10 str for Long Hafted Blade or 8 str for Side Sword it's just ridiculous.
not even ridiculous compared to nodachi (str 11, while thing is heavier _AND_ longer that 'european 2-handers' (and those require more str), not to talk about how irl it unbalanced by design compared to them...)
so how sword with same speed is longer and heavier, but still requires less str... way less..
but back to original topic... first i was "oh no... why everything has to be skill based..." but then i went "wait but atleast i allways anyways max ps, with every single char i have [even my mounted ranged chars...] so its not like it would be all that different making atleast for any single of builds i have played..."
too bad i guess we cant have kind of "mixed requirements for same group of weapons" meaning some 'simple' weapons could just be used with str req (atleast without it potentially becoming quite confusing for newbies), so that blunt mace for example could be used with just str while some more elegant and skill requiring weapon would need user to be skilled also in its use...
really most realistic thing could be to use some nice way where wpf would benefit different weapons with different graps of effectiviness compared to wpf compared to str... but then again that would be confusing, hard to implement and most likely impossible becouse of multiple hardcodings.
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Well, This would take away the builds that don't use a multiple of 3 strength...
I'm not sure if I support this. I see what you are suggesting, But have you ever used a weapon without power strike? You hit like a little girl who is fighting who gets the bigger slice of cake.
Besides, a strength requirement makes sense. You only need to be strong enough to use it: but with power strike you are able to do the real damage with it, and wpf to be swift with it.
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While my opinion is obviously give the low str chars shit and give us walking machines super weapons the problem is at that point you are leaving the majority of archers stuck with a pure archer character because they have too many points split as is
And them there archers with their 3 PS don't hurt us big bad wolves anyway so no harm no foul
On the other hand you have players going 11 PT/11PS who throw like my old friends and swing like my old friends
my old friendmy old friendmy old friendmy old friendmy old friend hatespeechmy old friend (there's 10 minutes of me rambling)
So unless I want to turn this into a long off topic post I say leave it all as is
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On the other hand you have players going 11 PT/11PS who throw like my old friends and swing like my old friends
my old friendmy old friendmy old friendmy old friendmy old friend hatespeechmy old friend (there's 10 minutes of me rambling)
Hmm..that reminds me of somebody. Who were you talking about wallace?
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I have played a pure archer, and I am still able to do decent in melee with a LHB or any other weapon because I got 24 agility and 7 athletics (turn into your hit = get speed bonus). Bounce off is annoying yeah, but with a knockdown weapon or something long enough you'll have no problem killing the average player :o
Right now you can deal as much damage with 4 power strike as with 7 if you are high agi and turn into your swing, or use your footwork, or use your high amount of wpf for another ability.
This is just a slight rebalancing of agility and strenght, right now agility is worth more than strenght.
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A sensible suggestion consistent with how everything else works.
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Right now you can deal as much damage with 4 power strike as with 7 if you are high agi and turn into your swing, or use your footwork, or use your high amount of wpf for another ability.
This is just a slight rebalancing of agility and strenght, right now agility is worth more than strenght.
I'm sorry Quirian, but I've got to laugh. I'm going to assume that this statement evolves from a lack of heavy strength builds over in Europe, but over here, where 8-12 PS/IF or more is becoming the standard, we see differently.
It's not even that useful in duels, if you'd ask any regular duellist here. Hitting your enemies four times and then getting one-shot after that really doesn't seem to be too useful. I know I personally have about double the K/D in my strength build generations in the battle server and about quadruple it in the duel server. And this isn't just me- it's the case for most people I know who've gone over to strength from balanced or agility.
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I support this too.
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I'm sorry Quirian, but I've got to laugh. I'm going to assume that this statement evolves from a lack of heavy strength builds over in Europe, but over here, where 8-12 PS/IF or more is becoming the standard, we see differently.
It's not even that useful in duels, if you'd ask any regular duellist here. Hitting your enemies four times and then getting one-shot after that really doesn't seem to be too useful. I know I personally have about double the K/D in my strength build generations in the battle server and about quadruple it in the duel server. And this isn't just me- it's the case for most people I know who've gone over to strength from balanced or agility.
I'm going to have to agree with kalam here. I started out as a balanced build and hardly ever had a 1 or higher K/D, but now that my main character is a pure strength cheese build I don't have to break a sweat to go 33 and 10 like I did in siege the other night. I have since then created another balanced sword and board, and I'm almost always one hit and it generally takes me three or four hits to kill someone. Strength builds are becoming the norm on our side of the world, and agility is no longer necessary.
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I still think making wpf an extra requirement for weapons is a much beter idea than PS. Most builds tend to go for max PS. And making wpf a requirement would at least cut down on 1 wpf people. And then for armour I would suggest IF, just to give that some love.
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I still think making wpf an extra requirement for weapons is a much beter idea than PS. Most builds tend to go for max PS. And making wpf a requirement would at least cut down on 1 wpf people. And then for armour I would suggest IF, just to give that some love.
What of those that don't find weapon master worth putting their skill points into?
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What of those that don't find weapon master worth putting their skill points into?
well if wpf requirements are added to weapons they'll have a reason to put skill points into weapon master. The idea is to limit people from using the most powerfull weapons in their categories without wpf. You want to use a german great sword, fine, but be prepared to spend 120 wpf in 2h then.
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well if wpf requirements are added to weapons they'll have a reason to put skill points into weapon master. The idea is to limit people from using the most powerfull weapons in their categories without wpf. You want to use a german great sword, fine, but be prepared to spend 120 wpf in 2h then.
I suppose that WOULD lower the amount of pure strength builds, but wouldn't it make more sense that more powerful weapons require more strength to use them?
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I suppose that WOULD lower the amount of pure strength builds, but wouldn't it make more sense that more powerful weapons require more strength to use them?
Yup, but realism comes second to balance. I've always thought of wpf as experience with a weapon type, I find it makes sense that you would first get some experience with simple weapons (two handed axe) before moving on to big and powerful weapons (flamberge).
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Yup, but realism comes second to balance. I've always thought of wpf as experience with a weapon type, I find it makes sense that you would first get some experience with simple weapons (two handed axe) before moving on to big and powerful weapons (flamberge).
I suppose that would work if we could gain wpf after using the certain weapon type for a long time, like in single player. Repetition makes perfect, no?
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I suppose that would work if we could gain wpf after using the certain weapon type for a long time, like in single player. Repetition makes perfect, no?
I don't think that's needed. The whole point is to limit the weapons you can use. If you spend all your wpf in archery, you shouldn't be allowed to use a flamberge with 1 wpf. Making PS a requirement doesn't limit nearly enough since almost all builds have as much PS as they can. Making wpf a requirement would force people to choose between being good at ranged or melee. It would also solve the issues with xbows and throwing being used with 1 wpf.
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I suppose that WOULD lower the amount of pure strength builds, but wouldn't it make more sense that more powerful weapons require more strength to use them?
Yep, but you can still (and should) have both. Sniper crossbow only wpf dependent would be ridiculous with really pure agility build.
If you can't code both into the game you can just have guaranteed triple upkeep if he doesn't meet wpf requirements ... this would solve it very fast. :lol:
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Yep, but you can still (and should) have both. Sniper crossbow only wpf dependent would be ridiculous with really pure agility build.
If you can't code both into the game you can just have guaranteed triple upkeep if he doesn't meet wpf requirements ... this would solve it very fast. :lol:
Just to be clear I don't want to remove the str requirement, just add wpf requirement. I also suggested scaling upkeep depending on wpf in some other thread, I think that too could work in reducing 1 wpf throwers/xbowers/melee. For instance have an optimum wpf for each weapon, if you're under that you pay more upkeep, if you're over maybe even less upkeep, I don't know, the details would still have to worked out, just an idea.
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every low ps archer using a Sar/bec/bar/hafted maces gets old
with the current system there simply is not practical reason to use a weapon that wont compensate for the points you dont put into ps
I think this system should be set as such that only extreme deviations from the most common amount of ps will effect most weapons.
IE: one who stacks WM PT and ATH but carries a flameberg O.o
yet not so soft that below average ps can equip you the majoraty of the 'big' weapons
but perhaps thats the side of me that doesnt like to get shot speaking
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Almost all players max their PS to their str. Making the weapon require PS is therefore almost no different than requiring str.
The only exception are perhaps some archers that need PD, but save some point on lower PS.
Not worth the effort.
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Just throwing this out there:
Why have the requirements for weapons be Power X? Why not just have all requirements depend on strength. That means that any Joe Blow with enough strength can pick up a bow, it just means he'll be crap with it if he doesn't have wpf or powershot. Similarly, anybody can pick up a throwing lance laying on the ground but they, too, will be crap at it if he doesn't have wpf or powerthrow. This would relegate the Power X abilities to being useful but inessential, which makes sense to me. This would help blur "class" lines and encourage "builds," something that's far more flexible and interesting IMO.
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I have played a pure archer, and I am still able to do decent in melee with a LHB or any other weapon because I got 24 agility and 7 athletics (turn into your hit = get speed bonus). Bounce off is annoying yeah, but with a knockdown weapon or something long enough you'll have no problem killing the average player :o
Right now you can deal as much damage with 4 power strike as with 7 if you are high agi and turn into your swing, or use your footwork, or use your high amount of wpf for another ability.
This is just a slight rebalancing of agility and strenght, right now agility is worth more than strenght.
So why is everyone going Strength then? Seriously, I've met people with so many HP they survive my couched lance. Is the game full of 6 Str 30 Agi characters? I don't see many at all, because with 6 Str you aren't very good; no 2h weapons at all apart from plain Axe and Practice Sword, no polearms apart from spears and pitchforks. Agility builds are dying already without this nerf.
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every low ps archer using a Sar/bec/bar/hafted maces gets old
with the current system there simply is not practical reason to use a weapon that wont compensate for the points you dont put into ps
I think this system should be set as such that only extreme deviations from the most common amount of ps will effect most weapons.
IE: one who stacks WM PT and ATH but carries a flameberg O.o
yet not so soft that below average ps can equip you the majoraty of the 'big' weapons
but perhaps thats the side of me that doesnt like to get shot speaking
hmm believe it or not but that's my current chars build - i wanted to see how throwing was but without any wpf in it.
As for Ps/Wpf requirements i totally support it.
It might lead to a little more stream lining in builds IE "I need these stats so I can get this." but there's already a lot of that in crpg anyway.
The only characters who will be affected by this will be the crazy ones.
I would advocate a whole new skill like "Melee requirement" as well, so weapon stats dont need to change but might need a high melee requirement.
The only downside of that is that it will take more skill points away from other things.
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So why is everyone going Strength then? Seriously, I've met people with so many HP they survive my couched lance. Is the game full of 6 Str 30 Agi characters? I don't see many at all, because with 6 Str you aren't very good; no 2h weapons at all apart from plain Axe and Practice Sword, no polearms apart from spears and pitchforks. Agility builds are dying already without this nerf.
thrusting and possibly piercing weapons should get a bonus to damage based off AGI, just like every MMO
this would make light skirmishers a better option like pike, spear, short sword, long knife/dagger
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+1 Great idea.
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Doesn't this just make Strength even more OP?
EX: A guy with 30 STR 3 AGI can do anything he wants and is nearly invincible.
EX: A guy with 3 STR 30 AGI is totally fucked. He can't pick up a twig, and he gets no swing bonus from his AGI. Not only that, but since the running speed was capped he gets very little speed bonus whatsoever from his AGI.
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wth? A bigger weapon doesnt require more skills to use.
only more Stranth.
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Doesn't this just make Strength even more OP?
EX: A guy with 30 STR 3 AGI can do anything he wants and is nearly invincible.
EX: A guy with 3 STR 30 AGI is totally fucked. He can't pick up a twig, and he gets no swing bonus from his AGI. Not only that, but since the running speed was capped he gets very little speed bonus whatsoever from his AGI.
^ Seconded.
Agility is super poorly represented right meow.