cRPG

Off Topic => General Off Topic => Topic started by: Murmillus_Prime on May 21, 2012, 12:02:37 pm

Title: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 21, 2012, 12:02:37 pm
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=27b_1337588920

It's shameful that an European state has so many residents resorting to desperate measures, sadly I believe this is only the start to what's to come throughout the rest of this decade.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Vibe on May 21, 2012, 12:05:25 pm
BUT CAPITALISM IS GOOD
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Lord_Panos on May 21, 2012, 12:07:50 pm
Some days ago I was chilling at my balcony and I saw an old man searching the dumpster for food,I never felt so sad and angry at the same time,I could not stop the tears from falling from my eyes but at the same time I was so angry that I wasnt  able to help people him,fuck that shit,Greece is slowly dying..
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Bjord on May 21, 2012, 12:08:25 pm
That's sick.  :(
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Lord_Panos on May 21, 2012, 12:15:40 pm
http://www.tsantiri.gr/apokalypseis/apokalipsi-ellines-trone-apo-ta-skoupidia-foto.html


http://kopais.blogspot.com/2012/04/blog-post_548.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KmSoTXMB3E&feature=related


Athens 2012..

Thank you Europe.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Boerenlater on May 21, 2012, 12:17:51 pm
Fucking banks.

Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: PikeDan on May 21, 2012, 01:02:22 pm
My thoughts are to greece and their financial meltdown. Capitalism's a bitch.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on May 21, 2012, 01:04:57 pm
Its the same in Croatia, people digging through dumpsters and collecting bottles for a living. It became so mundane here i dont even pay attention to it anymore
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: LordBerenger on May 21, 2012, 01:06:01 pm
BUT CAPITALISM IS GOOD

It is. Just that greedy politicans aint the best thing for your country.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 21, 2012, 01:23:19 pm
My thoughts are to greece and their financial meltdown. Capitalism's a bitch.


Every day we sit here discussing it, paying the light bill, the water bill, buying prepackaged food and watching the tv we admit that WE are the bitch, capitalism ownd us. I sit and think of this shit every day, the last 4 generations of my family all fought against this rightwing selfserving world we all buy into, and I cry if I stop and think of all that is wrong with the world that could be fixed if just for ONE day, we all stopped being greedy. But unfortunatly we are the same creatures that became the apex creature on this planet, we support one another only for as long as it serves us, we all want to be the best looking/richest/healthiest, no matter the cost to anyone else, we want the cheapest stuff of the highest quality, we want to wellfed, but dont want to work on a farm, we are greedy, selfish, nasty, nasty, NASTY ppl. I hate you. I hate me. We dont fucking deserve to walk the earth. If just for one day they would put me in charge...


Unfortunaly, or fortunatly, soon come the water wars. The current oil wars are nothing to what's coming, oil is a commodity but water a nessecity, and soon we will see what comes of so massively overpopulating our planet. I regret that we didn't learn the lessons of history about the evils of an allconsuming system, but worse I hate the fact that we are immobilised now, we cannot take steps to otherthrow those who "govern", they have built the self sustaining system too well, and like in 1984, we cannot even see what life should be, to know which way to turn. I hate being gifted with intelligence and curiosity, I travelled the world when I was younger, and like Ernesto Guevara I saw the horrors of the capitalist dream, the dreadful evil of the right wing philosofy, but I havent the courage to stand alone, and noone I explain this too will stand with me. If for one moment I believed there was a way to open the eyes of those who have the means to fix the world by making some gesture, I would, but in this day and age it would be passed off by TV psychoanalysts as a lone madman's paranoid fantasy...


I hate what we have done. I'm sorry that I rant, and many of you know me ingame and think I rage and talk alot of bullshit. But all the time inside all I can see is the horrors we commit, by direct action and by a million inactions. There is no changing people. And for that we are all doomed to die. The poorer first, and when they are no longer around to produce for the rich, the rich will die from inability to produce even the basic nescessities of life.

There are no nice people, just people who arent at that moment trying to take something from you. I tried, and try, to be nice to everyone I meet, and most times for my trouble I get stabbed in the back.

Anarquia ahora y siempre.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Molly on May 21, 2012, 02:00:41 pm
Its the same in Croatia, people digging through dumpsters and collecting bottles for a living. It became so mundane here i dont even pay attention to it anymore

Well, though most will probably call Bullshit on this one but it's actually true:

We have those people even in Germany. Collecting bottles during football matches to get the return, dumpster diving at supermarkets or restaurants...
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Beauchamp on May 21, 2012, 02:11:45 pm
This is how it ends up if you spend all your productive years demonstrating instead of working...
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: [ptx] on May 21, 2012, 02:21:50 pm
Well, though most will probably call Bullshit on this one but it's actually true:

We have those people even in Germany. Collecting bottles during football matches to get the return, dumpster diving at supermarkets or restaurants...
And here is something even more incredible - i've seen a few here in Latvia as well, holy shit :shock:
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 21, 2012, 02:55:22 pm

We have those people even in Germany. Collecting bottles during football matches to get the return, dumpster diving at supermarkets or restaurants...

Yeah, a lot of homeless and unemployed do that.Since you can make a lot of money from that, its not so bad.

The best thing is that you dont have to take your bottles with you or search for a bin to throw them away, just leave them standing and those people will collect it for you :D
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 21, 2012, 03:53:39 pm
Yeah, a lot of homeless and unemployed do that.Since you can make a lot of money from that, its not so bad.

The best thing is that you dont have to take your bottles with you or search for a bin to throw them away, just leave them standing and those people will collect it for you :D

You could make a minigame at halftime: hit the homeless with your bottles...They dont need to walk to collect them, and you can give points for range, airtime, etc
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Leshma on May 21, 2012, 04:17:56 pm
You're indeed happy people if you never saw that before. I got used to it.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 21, 2012, 04:24:13 pm
You're indeed happy people if you never saw that before. I got used to it.

Sad but true
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Overdriven on May 21, 2012, 04:33:10 pm

Unfortunaly, or fortunatly, soon come the water wars. The current oil wars are nothing to what's coming, oil is a commodity but water a nessecity, and soon we will see what comes of so massively overpopulating our planet.

I just wrote my dissertation on this. I'm sorry, but water wars are unlikely to ever happen. Academics largely agree on this. The only people who really support the potential for water wars are popularist writers and newspapers. I could sum up the reasons why quite quickly. Even the limits to growth argument (over population) has A LOT of flaws.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 21, 2012, 04:39:38 pm
I just wrote my dissertation on this. I'm sorry, but water wars are unlikely to ever happen. Academics largely agree on this. The only people who support the potential for water wars are largely popularist writers and newspapers. I could sum up the reasons why quite quickly. Even the limits to growth argument (over population) has A LOT of flaws.

Ok. I hope you are right. I've never read about this, it just seems logical...as far as academics, that is a term that means many things to many people, but doesnt automatically mean they have a fucking clue what they are talking about.

Also "I'm sorry, but water wars are unlikely to ever happen" why are you sorry? Does the idea of total industrial war appeal to you?
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Overdriven on May 21, 2012, 05:04:35 pm
No it's simply because it's an idea that is jumped upon by the popular media so it's kind of annoying to see it brought up. Especially because it's such an out dated concept from the 80's where it was predicted that major conflict over water would occur before the beginning of the 21st century (never did). And the kind of academics I'm talking about are well known who have studied resource conflict, water conflict and international water treaties for the greater parts of their careers. So far in the modern age there has been no conflict fought solely over a water resource. As for the future well it sums up as:

- 80% of fresh water usage goes into agriculture. That means that immediate water usage for things like drinking water, cleaning ect, uses an tiny percentage of our total water usage. Until immediate water supply is threatened, it is unlikely that tensions would rise enough for conflict to occur.

- Food is unlikely to become scarcer as a result of reduced water supply. Currently agriculture is very inefficient in its water usage. However, there are recent technologies that have reduced water use in many centres of western agriculture by upwards of 60%. If this is transferred across to developing nations, and those who are most likely to disagree over water sources (namely international rivers), then it would decrease any threat by a considerable amount. On top of this, a 10% reduction in agricultures use of water supply would double the amount of water available for drinking and immediate use.

- Because food (relies on water) is far less valuable than commodities such as oil (you need oil to run the war machine in the first place) and far more numerous in its supply, politicians and those who actively send their nations to war are far more likely to be concerned with oil, gas and other important resources for energy usage long before they are concerned with food or water supply. Even with a growing population. Therefore it's unlikely that water will ever be a casus belli.

- The areas of highest conflict risk are those along water ways such as the Mekong, Jordan and Ganges. There are 261 international rivers with many of them shared between 4 or more countries. Countries are unlikely to ever go to war over these water ways because their power cancels each other out. For example, Cambodia is the lower riparian on the Mekong, and if Thailand decided to build dams ect, it is unlikely to be able to challenge Thailand in warfare because it is far stronger. Likewise, Thailand is unlikely to challenge China for obvious reasons. So the power shifts cancel each other out. Even in desperation this would be the case.

- Solutions to water conflicts are sought out peacefully simply because the cost doesn't justify the means. Unless you get some nutty dictator who decides to go to war over it, governments are never going to risk spending the money, man power and resources over a water supply. They are far more likely to bargain with economic means. Many such agreements are already under way. For example Thailand gets a share of the hydroelectric power a dam in Laos produces because they helped fund it so it benefits both parties.

- Exponential population growth (limits to growth argument) is unlikely to occur. At some point, even if much strain is put on world resources, population growth is likely to level out. In many developed nations the death rate is already higher than birth rate. Furthermore, it doesn't take into account technology growth. At our rate of growth in technology, it is likely that resource management is going to get a lot better. Particular as developing nations contribute more and more to research in such areas.

Anyway, no war appeals to me. And you know that's more of an expression right? As in 'Im sorry, WHAT?'.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Christo on May 21, 2012, 06:43:02 pm
Some days ago I was chilling at my balcony and I saw an old man searching the dumpster for food,I never felt so sad and angry at the same time,I could not stop the tears from falling from my eyes but at the same time I was so angry that I wasnt  able to help people him,fuck that shit,Greece is slowly dying..

I have seen the same here, it's really sad.

A rare sight, but still it makes me think a lot always.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 21, 2012, 09:24:12 pm
You could make a minigame at halftime: hit the homeless with your bottles...They dont need to walk to collect them, and you can give points for range, airtime, etc

Thats kind of disrespectful.

You know, they are still human :D
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 21, 2012, 11:50:13 pm
Thats kind of disrespectful.

You know, they are still human :D

Out of the two of us, I honestly believe I have spent longer living on the street. While this isn't a boast, if you had bothered to read the earlier posts you would see my actual feelings about humanity. I am not honestly recommending throwing bottles at homeless people, but you get to a point in life when there are no limits you wont go to conversationally, I'm happy in myself and dont have to judge myself by your standards, and if I say it would be amusing, it would be amusing. That doesnt mean I am going to do it.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: djavo on May 22, 2012, 10:56:45 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
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Players from all over the world will join forces to battle alongside their countrymen and hopefully be the winning nation.

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Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Kafein on May 23, 2012, 12:24:15 am
In belgium the worst signs of poverty I can witness are people singing in the metro. Sometimes it's really painful to hear because the "right" rythms and tones are different in different cultures.

There's a very clear border between those that live outside/are immigrants in semi-legal situation and the poor that still enjoy welfare money. The former have very little means of getting money, and the latter don't really need to go as far as to search empty bottles and such.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: isatis on May 23, 2012, 02:47:26 am
meanwhile in Québec we are currently under the biggest strike (or boycott as gouv said) because the government want to put the university cost up of 325$ per years for five year... total cost at the end will be around 3000$ per years

sometime looking at what happen in other country put the thing at their right place!

I hope situation will be better soon for you.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Sharky on May 23, 2012, 04:37:44 am
I'm really sorry for the greek situation, and i'm really worried about situation at home and eu future.
I think EU was just a bluff politically, and the financial markets got it. Eu "help" to greece sounds more a punishment then an help for example.
Now or we change and have better rules, more choesion and development for all, or we'll all sink.
Germany should also grow up and stop acting like masters of europe, eu wasn't made for their benefit only, nor countries like greece spain italy can't magically turn into germany just because merkel wants it. The Sarkomerkel axis approach the the chrisis was horrible with the austerity-recession-more austerity suicidal circle, now greece it's out of debt market, spain and italy have to finance themself at horrible rates while germany have almost negative values lol.
Let's make togheter some fucking eurobonds, open an EU rating agency quickly, in short do something to show Europe really exist and doesn't let entire nations starve to death and i'm sure Eu will go out from this credit crysis.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: B3RS3RK on May 23, 2012, 11:47:10 am
Out of the two of us, I honestly believe I have spent longer living on the street. While this isn't a boast, if you had bothered to read the earlier posts you would see my actual feelings about humanity. I am not honestly recommending throwing bottles at homeless people, but you get to a point in life when there are no limits you wont go to conversationally, I'm happy in myself and dont have to judge myself by your standards, and if I say it would be amusing, it would be amusing. That doesnt mean I am going to do it.

wat

You know I was making a joke, right? hence the  :D
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Arathian on May 23, 2012, 11:51:55 am
Sorry to cut your little idiocy festival, but you guys DO know Greece is not a capitalist country, right?
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on May 23, 2012, 02:12:33 pm
Sorry to cut your little idiocy festival, but you guys DO know Greece is not a capitalist country, right?

How did you work that out?

Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Arathian on May 23, 2012, 02:38:51 pm
How did you work that out?

Let's see:

-high taxes
-endless regulation chocking the industry
-extensive welfare
-central industries are all state controlled


I could go on and on and on about why Greece is socialist and NOT capitalist, but I am sure you get the point.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Kafein on May 23, 2012, 02:51:06 pm
I'm really sorry for the greek situation, and i'm really worried about situation at home and eu future.
I think EU was just a bluff politically, and the financial markets got it. Eu "help" to greece sounds more a punishment then an help for example.
Now or we change and have better rules, more choesion and development for all, or we'll all sink.
Germany should also grow up and stop acting like masters of europe, eu wasn't made for their benefit only, nor countries like greece spain italy can't magically turn into germany just because merkel wants it. The Sarkomerkel axis approach the the chrisis was horrible with the austerity-recession-more austerity suicidal circle, now greece it's out of debt market, spain and italy have to finance themself at horrible rates while germany have almost negative values lol.
Let's make togheter some fucking eurobonds, open an EU rating agency quickly, in short do something to show Europe really exist and doesn't let entire nations starve to death and i'm sure Eu will go out from this credit crysis.

The choice only exists between austerity and growth through endebtment. During the 70's crisis most western countries practised loldevaluation and lolletsbuildthings which actually ruined their finances and forced them to pay humongous interest money. Most of these states are still not done with their debt today. Enterprises pushed by artificial government spending wouldn't be profitable without it and as such are not sustainable. That's paper growth.

Decreasing the debt and reducing the interest expenses of the state, that allows much larger stimulus to be done later and in a much safer and balanced way, such as reducing taxes.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: isatis on May 23, 2012, 10:43:50 pm
Greek is a socialist country that had capitalist dream

Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Sharky on May 24, 2012, 08:09:08 am
The choice only exists between austerity and growth through endebtment. During the 70's crisis most western countries practised loldevaluation and lolletsbuildthings which actually ruined their finances and forced them to pay humongous interest money. Most of these states are still not done with their debt today. Enterprises pushed by artificial government spending wouldn't be profitable without it and as such are not sustainable. That's paper growth.

Decreasing the debt and reducing the interest expenses of the state, that allows much larger stimulus to be done later and in a much safer and balanced way, such as reducing taxes.

That sounds reasonable, but then why greece is in deep shit with most of europe? Greece did all EU demanded, they cutted everything taxed everything privatized everything and look at them now...
Usa Obama approach seems more effective, first increase in state spendings to encourage the economy, and only after the cuts.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Arathian on May 24, 2012, 08:50:03 am
Greek is a socialist country that had capitalist dream

No, in fact Greece used to be capitalist.

tl;dr recent history:

Greece in the 70's got a pro-US military Junta that liberalized trade, freed the economy etc. This period was called the "Greek economic miracle"  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_economic_miracle) where Greece had the 2nd highest economic growth in the world as well as an impressive HDI growth. Essentially, this period made us first world. We used to produce cars, electicity, technology, refine oil. heck, we used to have THE biggest merchant fleet in the world.

Then the Junta fell by, unfortunately, socialists. They set up a new system based on socialism. Wages were quadripled in almost 4 years, taxes were doubled, regulations and the public sector became endlessly bigger.

Obviously, Greek industry collapsed and the public sector continued to bloat leading the modern situation where Greece is doomed financially.

And that is why I hate nothing more than socialists. Commies are stupid enough for their stupidity to be obvious enough to never be elected but socialists sugar coat their piece of shit ideology and they manage to get elected and ruin nations, including mine.

Seriously, fuck socialism.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: BlindGuy on May 24, 2012, 02:37:16 pm
No, in fact Greece used to be capitalist.

tl;dr recent history:

Greece in the 70's got a pro-US military Junta that liberalized trade, freed the economy etc. This period was called the "Greek economic miracle"  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_economic_miracle) where Greece had the 2nd highest economic growth in the world as well as an impressive HDI growth. Essentially, this period made us first world. We used to produce cars, electicity, technology, refine oil. heck, we used to have THE biggest merchant fleet in the world.

Then the Junta fell by, unfortunately, socialists. They set up a new system based on socialism. Wages were quadripled in almost 4 years, taxes were doubled, regulations and the public sector became endlessly bigger.

Obviously, Greek industry collapsed and the public sector continued to bloat leading the modern situation where Greece is doomed financially.

And that is why I hate nothing more than socialists. Commies are stupid enough for their stupidity to be obvious enough to never be elected but socialists sugar coat their piece of shit ideology and they manage to get elected and ruin nations, including mine.

Seriously, fuck socialism.

Socialism is based on production, the leader's of Greece may have called themselves socialists, but they did not practise. Forcing a woman to have sex and calling it love doesn't stop it being rape. Dont blame socialism, blame greedy corrupt ppl, the idea is good, the people are weak. Humanity is what fails, not the ideal of wealth for all based on production. The govermental public sector enlargement is the first sign of corruption tbh...
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Arathian on May 24, 2012, 02:42:58 pm
Socialism is based on production, the leader's of Greece may have called themselves socialists, but they did not practise. Forcing a woman to have sex and calling it love doesn't stop it being rape. Dont blame socialism, blame greedy corrupt ppl, the idea is good, the people are weak. Humanity is what fails, not the ideal of wealth for all based on production. The govermental public sector enlargement is the first sign of corruption tbh...

This arguement is absurd. If something does something EVERY time, then this something is its effect. It does not matter what it proclaims itself to be.

Greece is socialist because the people who lead it called themselves that. That it failed (and it was inevitable that it would) does not change the fact nor does it transfer responsibility to <ideology you don't like>
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Kafein on May 24, 2012, 08:25:25 pm
That sounds reasonable, but then why greece is in deep shit with most of europe? Greece did all EU demanded, they cutted everything taxed everything privatized everything and look at them now...
Usa Obama approach seems more effective, first increase in state spendings to encourage the economy, and only after the cuts.

Such changes take several years for the effects to be seen, especially with rampant corruption. State encouraged sectors grow when they get the money but as soon as it stops most of the activity will falter just like rushed pastry.

The problem with long term strategies is that they only show how good they are during the mandate of your political adversaries.


I think BlindGuy has the Trotsky syndrom.

Also, you can never ever blame humans for being humans. If your ideas don't apply well, they are bad ideas. I'm sure we'll find plenty of socialistic aliens in space though.
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Beauchamp on May 27, 2012, 08:44:15 am
greeks work in a socialistic way but they expect capitalistic payment. its the most socialistic coutry i've ever been to (if i don't count mine before revolution that happen when i was like 9).
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Dach on May 27, 2012, 10:29:35 am
Yep socialist which think like capitalist are the worst kind...

They all want free...and don't want to work for the free service... lazy, greedy bastard...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Quite sad... Food Poverty in Greece.
Post by: Bobthehero on May 27, 2012, 10:32:41 am
meanwhile in Québec we are currently under the biggest strike (or boycott as gouv said) because the government want to put the university cost up of 325$ per years for five year... total cost at the end will be around 3000$ per years

Which is still fucking small.