cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 03:52:12 am

Title: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 03:52:12 am
It would be a good capitalist way of saying;

Well, danish greatswords come from denmark, and they have run out of supply! Of course they are more expensive!

This would be an automatic min-maxer killer in the long run. Since no weapon or item is atm extremely OP in itself, I think we could try such a change. For every greatsword used every tick, the price and upkeep of it would go up or down.

A rarely used weapon would be very cheap, and a popular one very expensive, making players have to compensate by wearing less armor.

Same would work for armors and other items of course. It should be for weapons USED, not bought or in inventory though. Perhaps it should be connected to the kill or damage stats?

This would also shake up the marketplace... :D
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 24, 2012, 03:55:18 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 04:04:18 am
Oh Yes. (http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/oh-yes/)
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Havoco on April 24, 2012, 04:10:45 am
Would this include heirlooms? I mean if an hierloom price is independent from the basic unheirloomed price?
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 24, 2012, 04:32:33 am
You know what Thomek? This would make me wield a katana every fucking round for couple of weeks, just to make it more expensive :P. I don't even have the 2h wpf but what wouldn't I do to make your ninjaed plans to fail ^^
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: POOPHAMMER on April 24, 2012, 04:45:55 am
You know what Thomek? This would make me wield a katana every fucking round for couple of weeks, just to make it more expensive :P. I don't even have the 2h wpf but what wouldn't I do to make your ninjaed plans to fail ^^

Good idea. I have enough gold to the point where I can spawn with a heavy lance every round, or 2 quivers of whatever the most popular arrow/ranged weapon of the moment is just to put them into the poor house.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 24, 2012, 05:26:21 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Renten on April 24, 2012, 08:15:06 am
Heavy lance upkeep will sky rocket.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Vibe on April 24, 2012, 08:39:17 am
More like "Another shit idea late at night"
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 10:04:36 am
More like, no one has any counterarguments at all.

This could at least be a factor in weapon pricing. It would smooth out current balance issues an op weapons.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Vibe on April 24, 2012, 10:56:08 am
No, this is just you being biased again and trying to nerf everything that isn't a katana.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on April 24, 2012, 11:18:09 am
Well, katana is the third most popular weapon on EU1 according to stats some months back, iirc.

But, I don't know about this suggestion. I can see some benefits in it, but a lot of downsides, and I don't think it would work that well in the end.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Tzar on April 24, 2012, 12:17:07 pm
 :lol:
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 24, 2012, 01:07:01 pm
what a fail ideas come to thomek during nights
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Aleskander on April 24, 2012, 02:03:11 pm
Nah, but the OP's suggestion made me make one

What if the more popular players didn't have to pay upkeep. So the PRO clan could just wear plate all day
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Espu on April 24, 2012, 02:20:23 pm
Everyone: Y u no have  anything sensible to say??

I like the idea. Dynamicismium!
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 24, 2012, 02:44:01 pm
i have an interesting spin to Thomek idea !

make upkeep based on popularity of a player! so that new/casual players would pay less and hardcore grinders would pay more

base upkeep * player popularity = win
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Mlekce on April 24, 2012, 02:52:22 pm
Now that i have awsome items everyone want to nerf them and make it unusable. What about new players? Rich will use Op weapons all the time,i mean like they give a fuck about upkeep,but new players and poorer would be even easier to kill. I would not give a fuck about it because i will retire forever and sell looms so with 600k i can use whatever i want for few generations. Your idea is mega shit,so don't post again crap like this.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Beauchamp on April 24, 2012, 03:00:47 pm
there is something good in the suggestion, the most OPed weapons would balance all by themselves in terms of cost without devs needing to set up anything. i really like it.

Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Berserkadin on April 24, 2012, 03:18:23 pm
Sounds like a fun idea, and I dont care since I'm no kuyak wearing danish GS my old friend.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Jarlek on April 24, 2012, 03:29:53 pm
Everyone: Y u no have  anything sensible to say??

I like the idea. Dynamicismium!
Yeah! I really love this. Not biased since I use a lot of weapons very few others use!
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: BlindGuy on April 24, 2012, 03:32:55 pm
More like, no one has any counterarguments at all.

This could at least be a factor in weapon pricing. It would smooth out current balance issues an op weapons.

Im ALL for this. Have fun paying over nine thousand a round for spamtana. As for black hood, and llamelar, have fun paying for them too.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 05:29:44 pm
I don't mind if I were to pay more for my katana. :)

This would in a subtle way create slightly more variation that's all. Rewarding those that use rarely used weapons and armor.

Or do you really think the prices for weapons are perfect as set by the devs? What we have now is fixed prices set by the devs..

Are the set prices perfect?
No.

Do fixed prices lead to minmaxers looking equal in Kujaks and Danish Greadswords, optimal archers, optimal cav?
Yes.

This would create a dynamic auto-adjustment of prices. I don't think it should be just RAW "supply and demand" creating new prices, but rather the pretended "supply and demand" would be a FACTOR in the new prices.

This factor someone else than me would know better how to decide.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 24, 2012, 06:14:48 pm
Now that i have awsome items everyone want to nerf them and make it unusable. What about new players? Rich will use Op weapons all the time,i mean like they give a fuck about upkeep,but new players and poorer would be even easier to kill. I would not give a fuck about it because i will retire forever and sell looms so with 600k i can use whatever i want for few generations. Your idea is mega shit,so don't post again crap like this.

+1 to this, and ofc some clan can just burst prices on some items, to make bad for real users of this items.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Tzar on April 24, 2012, 06:21:58 pm
What about new players? Rich will use Op weapons all the time,i mean like they give a fuck about upkeep,but new players and poorer would be even easier to kill.

This along with diablo 3 an war of the roses comming out soon might kill the big servers reducing it to 64 slot servers   :evil:

Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rainbow on April 24, 2012, 06:23:07 pm
I actually like this idea.  Nobody wears the gear I wear. 
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Diomedes on April 24, 2012, 06:43:24 pm
I like the idea.  If the devs balance it right, most items should remain largely unaffected.  Those that will be affected are the more boring ones anyhow: Kuyaks, Danish longswords, Italian Swords, some bows, some arrows, steel bolts, long spears, katana, huscarl shields.

I'd be happy if folks used these items less often, or just branched out a bit more. 
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: cmp on April 24, 2012, 07:03:42 pm
Everyone: Y u no have  anything sensible to say??

I like the idea. Dynamicismium!

+1
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Kafein on April 24, 2012, 07:03:54 pm
This idea makes a lot of sense and could lead to more diversity.

But it fails very seriously about one thing : Weapon categories aren't all like 2h and don't have 5196021653065161854670137095768465 identical high tier weapons.

It would seriously nerf classes that can't base their choice on what they like but rather on what is available. The heavy lance is the only decent possibility for lance cav and its upkeep would explode for no reason.

In other words, it would be fair if every class had at least 5 versions of their main weapon like 2h do with DGS, GGS, SoW, Claymore, GS and even a few cheaper ones. All these are different, but not as much as horn and rus bow (although I can't say one is really superior to the other), or lance and heavy lance.

So maybe only do this for armor ?
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Vexus on April 24, 2012, 07:16:27 pm
^ This
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Goldor on April 24, 2012, 07:23:45 pm
i have an interesting spin to Thomek idea !

make upkeep based on popularity of a player! so that new/casual players would pay less and hardcore grinders would pay more

base upkeep * player popularity = win

Now there is an interesting idea.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Leshma on April 24, 2012, 07:28:08 pm
And how you plan to measure player popularity?
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on April 24, 2012, 07:54:00 pm
And how you plan to measure player popularity?

number of posts on forum of course :D
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Goldor on April 24, 2012, 08:12:25 pm
And how you plan to measure player popularity?

I read it as applying mostly to the amount of time played per day, perhaps divided per week.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 24, 2012, 08:30:00 pm
WAIT
you want make some items more expensive only because someone use them,
that can kill kuyak users and strat crafters
grate mauls and DGS/GGS and many other weapons

thats not feer because IF someone loom any item HE WANT use that for some time because he like lookout, stats ect.
UPKEAP is secondary thing but really important because sometimes you havent goold for repairs.


Anyway that can kill  item balance wich willl change all the time.

and i really dont care about myself
with my 9 mw items and 350k gold i can survive that.





Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 24, 2012, 08:37:45 pm
Take the average kuyak and GS user, let's pretend this system increased the price of armor and sword by 20%, and he can't float that much.

Then, to continue using his GS he'd have to go down a notch in armor that's all, or even choose a better armor, but less used, and thus cheaper.

Of course this would immediately shake up the marketplace, since a lot of people are sitting on DGS and kyuaks.

So what?

Who cares about the Kuyak and DGS minmaxers anyway?

btw, most items would probably become CHEAPER with this suggestion. The ones with unique looking chars would benefit form most from this.

Ninjas like myself would probably be hit the hardest because we have anal gear rules.

Perhaps some economy freak here can post a suggestion of the best way to implement this.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 24, 2012, 09:06:01 pm
NINJA DO NOT PAY UPKEAP
NINJA LIkE YOU ABUZE SYSTEM SOo WE HAVE TOO MUCH GOOLD ON MARKET


and you see ony 1 aspect but there are archers xbowmen and others wich are forced to use 1 set of items because thats only 1 good set

Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Leshma on April 24, 2012, 09:38:33 pm
I don't like Kuyak but I dislike weeaboo gear even more.

I'm fine with this suggestion but I also hope that Shik will do the right thing and finally remove fugly asian armors. Katana can stay, it will be overpriced anyways.

And I hope you know that popularity isn't the same as damage dealt. Greatswords deal the most damage but there is so many noobs using Katana/Nodachi that I think they are equally popular.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Kafein on April 24, 2012, 09:40:19 pm
number of posts on forum of course :D

I oppose this.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Elio on April 24, 2012, 10:41:09 pm
It would seriously nerf classes that can't base their choice on what they like but rather on what is available. The heavy lance is the only decent possibility for lance cav and its upkeep would explode for no reason.
Hell no, you never played as cav to say that.

Just because Heavy Lance is at a decent price they all use it, therefore we are forced to use it (against others cavs) and also by easiness (against infs), that's all.
Lance is clearly decent with 30 pierce (vs 26p).
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 24, 2012, 10:43:19 pm
BUFF HIPSTERS!
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Beauchamp on April 25, 2012, 12:36:24 am
i'm not sure if this should be tied to armors as well - they kinda represent character of an individual or of a clan and sometimes you don't have that much of a choice (aka nords take kuyaks, should they be punished because they're nords?).

thinking more about it, there are some areas where this idea fails (like arrows/bolts...), but for example for 2h weapons it would work like a charm as there are so many (and similar) of them.

to make this work completely, devs would have to create a few more alternatives for arrows, bolts, lances...
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 25, 2012, 12:43:35 am
and kill peps with loomed items?

really?
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Joker86 on April 25, 2012, 01:39:41 am
Although I do like the idea, I fear I have to be against it.

It has already been mentioned before, that certain classes with limited choices would be punished for no reason. You can only have one of what? Five crossbows? Eight bows? Seventyseven one handed weapons?

The second but most severe disadvantage would be that you are not indipendant in your choice of classes. You can't equip your build the way it suits you most, unless you have a lot of gold on your account. I don't like the idea to get punished for feeling the same about an item like the majority of other players.

Of course the most used items are the most viable items, followed by the best looking items. Now if I don't have a lot of money (and still want to keep my loom points, because I think they are an important part of further improving my character!), I will be FORCED to use inferior equipment and/or equipment that doesn't look well in my eyes, entirely killing any identification I have with my character.

Imagine how you would feel about not being able to use your weaboo stuff any more because there are too many weaboo fans around and you run out of money. And suddenly you have to run around with leather helmet, byrnie and nordic sword like everyone else. Great conditions for leading a Ninja clan or being part of it.


The suggestion goes against the idea of an RPG. It's more like "Day of Defeat", you connect to a server with class restrictions, and the only class left to be played is the rifleman, because the choices of the other players on the server force you to equip the M1 Garand / Mauser K98k. It feels unfair. 

Some time ago I suggested something similar (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23768.msg343630.html#msg343630), concerning the classes. I think it was around the time when there was the archer problem on the servers, and the devs nerfed dmg/buffed headshots. But still I could live better with such a system rather than one the determines your equipment. Because it doesn't prevent you of playing the class you want, you just don't get rewarded.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 02:01:52 am
What are you talking about Joker.

You put everything to the extreme. We are talking a minor incentive to choose other gear here.
Of course Archers and Xbowers or whatnot should have a different dynamic factor influencing the price, since they don't have a lot of options.

IMO a good game offers the players dilemmas in balance. This would further balance items based on the average opinion of their users, not the dev team. This change takes power from the devs and gives it to the users.

Now not ALL players are minmaxers, but RP fellows are either used to grind for their top stuff, keep cheaper equipment, and generally wear stuff not many others do.

Of course, there might be a player who thinks wearing Kuyak and DGS is cool, but who would really care if he got fucked?

The minmaxers would start switching and trying other weapons, and the price of the DGS would go down again. There would probably be some good deals to find on the market too..

You will not be FORCED as you write it, to wear anything. You can do whatever you want, just like now, if you have the money for it, or grind for it. People do ride around with plated chargers and that's totally fine. They earned that. (or hustled the marketplace in some way)

Those who would feel this change the hardest are those who are:
* Hovering just below their income capacity/upkeep
* Wearing stuff A LOT of others are wearing


But as others start to use other stuff, your stuff will go down in price as a consequence.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 25, 2012, 02:39:33 am
Now not ALL players are minmaxers, but RP fellows are either used to grind for their top stuff, keep cheaper equipment, and generally wear stuff not many others do.
Oh so you shouldn't use certain popular items for your RP because it will bankrupt you? And you are not considered as RP'er if you use Kuyak?

Of course, there might be a player who thinks wearing Kuyak and DGS is cool, but who would really care if he got fucked?
Oh wow... just wow... Not that I care about DGS at all, but that comment is horseshit because the models of both kuyaks are unarguably the finest of this mod till this date and I think that's a valid reason to like them. Well DGS+Kuyak, still cooler than Katana + Lamellar Vest...


You will not be FORCED as you write it, to wear anything. You can do whatever you want, just like now, if you have the money for it, or grind for it.

Yeah sounds perfectly reasonable and sensible.

This idea is like taxes... They want to tax extra if some people do something that someone else doesn't like. It's basically controlling another's behaviour.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Joker86 on April 25, 2012, 02:41:51 am
IMO a good game offers the players dilemmas in balance.

Right. But in this case the dilemma would not be around "which is the best way to go for me", rather than "let's see which items are available right now for me", which is not the same.


This would further balance items based on the average opinion of their users, not the dev team. This change takes power from the devs and gives it to the users.

But upkeep itself doesn't really work for balancing, because there are players with millions of gold. So only the players without gold would be limited.


You will not be FORCED as you write it, to wear anything. You can do whatever you want, just like now, if you have the money for it, or grind for it.

And what if they don't? Upkeep already limits players who want to play as tincans or heavy cavalry constantly, which is still understandable somehow (although I don't see any reason why tincans or heavy cav couldn't be balanced to be only as effective as a spearman or an archer), people without money, which would be beginners mostly, would be even more limited.


Those who would feel this change the hardest are those who are:
* Hovering just below their income capacity/upkeep
* Wearing stuff A LOT of others are wearing


But as others start to use other stuff, your stuff will go down in price as a consequence.

I think there are a lot of people who are hovering just below their income capacity, it's only natural. They would all suffer from it, if they use the most viable items for their class, which is nothing bad, it's just what the current game balance makes them do if they want to maximize their character.


You know what I mean? Other people wearing the same items like you is rather a "random" factor, instead of a "balancing" factor, but I think balancing out the pros and cons of a build, including the "budget" for equipment (if a limit which defines a budget is existing at all  :rolleyes: ) should rely on stats and clever character planning, instead of "now let's hope not too many people decide to use what I want to use"...

It makes minmaxing really difficult, but I think players do have a right on minmaxing, it's an important part of RPG for some people, same as grinding or reenacting someone. Everyone has his preferences, and I don't like the idea to be forced to use something inferior or to look differently just because of the actions OTHER players do. I don't like being dependant on them.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Casimir on April 25, 2012, 03:00:31 am
This would be another great reason not to play cRPG.

Guy A: Wanna play some cRPG bro?

Guy B: No mate, everyone else likes the things i do now i have to give all the money i have just to use them

Guy A: Fair enough lets not bother.


This is how i see things developing. I do not care.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 03:12:07 am
Right. But in this case the dilemma would not be around "which is the best way to go for me", rather than "let's see which items are available right now for me", which is not the same.

It is like it is now. Only the item price would be balanced by popularity as well as stats.

But upkeep itself doesn't really work for balancing, because there are players with millions of gold. So only the players without gold would be limited.

It's like this now too, nothing we can do about it. Ok with me.

And what if they don't? Upkeep already limits players who want to play as tincans or heavy cavalry constantly, which is still understandable somehow (although I don't see any reason why tincans or heavy cav couldn't be balanced to be only as effective as a spearman or an archer), people without money, which would be beginners mostly, would be even more limited.

People with little money, creative people, and beginners would benefit the most from this. People that MUST HAVE DGS will not.

I think there are a lot of people who are hovering just below their income capacity, it's only natural. They would all suffer from it, if they use the most viable items for their class, which is nothing bad, it's just what the current game balance makes them do if they want to maximize their character.


You know what I mean? Other people wearing the same items like you is rather a "random" factor, instead of a "balancing" factor, but I think balancing out the pros and cons of a build, including the "budget" for equipment (if a limit which defines a budget is existing at all  :rolleyes: ) should rely on stats and clever character planning, instead of "now let's hope not too many people decide to use what I want to use"...

It makes minmaxing really difficult, but I think players do have a right on minmaxing, it's an important part of RPG for some people, same as grinding or reenacting someone. Everyone has his preferences, and I don't like the idea to be forced to use something inferior or to look differently just because of the actions OTHER players do. I don't like being dependant on them.

You are right, actions of other people would influence your upkeep, but this would stabilize over time. In the beginning we might see some adjustment, yes. Players have a right to minmax, but minmaxing should be hard, not easy.

If the prices we have now are correct within a 30% margin, this could be the range new prices could deviate inside, and with time, not long I reckon they would be pretty stable, but better reflecting the actual power of the item.  (And make being original and unique cheaper)

No need to make horror scenarios here..
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 03:36:29 am
This idea is like taxes... They want to tax extra if some people do something that someone else doesn't like. It's basically controlling another's behaviour.

No, this idea is like capitalism. If many people want an item, you have to pay up for it.

What we have now is state(dev) controlled prices. That's why they can never reflect the items true value.
(In the current metagame)

You communist or wut?

For those that are afraid of market crashes etc, we could add a max change value of 1% per item per week or something. Then it would slowly sink in, but still change fast enough to keep up with the metagame. No one would be shocked.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 25, 2012, 04:23:03 am
No, this idea is like capitalism. If many people want an item, you have to pay up for it.

What we have now is state(dev) controlled prices. That's why they can never reflect the items true value.
(In the current metagame)

You communist or wut?

For those that are afraid of market crashes etc, we could add a max change value of 1% per item per week or something. Then it would slowly sink in, but still change fast enough to keep up with the metagame. No one would be shocked.

Nah capitalism doesn't work that way. If there is people wanting to buy something in large numbers, the capitalistic pigs will force the makers of the certain product work harder. After that they get bigger factories and develop the manufacturing process. At the same time the product itself gets even cheaper to make because the making process gets standardized. Popularity normally should show as lowered prices to the customer as well.

This upkeep system is like taxes. I mean that in every country there is people who hate something that some other people do. Even if it doesn't affect in their lives anyways, they want to make something illegal or "bad".

Well let's get an example. Smoking! Some people seem to have a huge passion to get smoking and nicotine in general illegal. Hmm they can't actually do that. They've tried it and they can't do it so fast. What's the next best way to keep people from smoking? "TAX THE SHIT OUT OF THAT SHIT! PUT SOME EXTRA TAX TO IT SO THOSE SILLY PEOPLE DON'T DO THAT! I DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY'RE DOING SO TAX IT! IT'S THEIR FAULT FOR HAVING THAT NASTY HABIT WHICH I THINK IS BARBARIC AND NO COOL, THEY SHOULD PAY!". The same goes for gasoline, alcohol, etc. Now they are even speaking about sugar tax... Well fuck me... But yeah this is almost completely the pattern I see in your suggestion.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: cmp on April 25, 2012, 04:59:18 am
Comparing smoking and alcohol taxes to gasoline tax...

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 25, 2012, 05:08:38 am
Comparing smoking and alcohol taxes to gasoline tax...

(click to show/hide)

Not even Gnjuspalm? I don't know about you, but it's starting to be too expensive for me to drive a car (not to speak about owning one like I do), smoke and drink beer at all in this world nowadays and it makes me sad :(.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: ArchonAlarion on April 25, 2012, 05:27:52 am
In capitalism, the more an item is demanded (popularity) the more are produced and the cheaper they become. Only in a world of fixed supply would prices become higher if demand increased.

ECON 101
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: BlindGuy on April 25, 2012, 07:04:58 am
Thought it kinda apropriate to mention this: This system was introduced in counterstrike to try to stop the endless use of the same 5 weapons. It didnt last a month.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 25, 2012, 07:53:04 am
Thought it kinda apropriate to mention this: This system was introduced in counterstrike to try to stop the endless use of the same 5 weapons. It didnt last a month.
The 5 weapons: AK, M16, Pump shotgun, AWI and Desert Eagle? That's the first 5 weapons that come to my mind...

But before Thomek writes his answer I would like to save him from the work. On a serious note I don't think this is too bad idea actually. I don't picture it as radical as you might make it sound. And in my mind the system would be calculating the situation in real time when you play. You would have some hint about the situation by looking around. "Do I see a lot of kuyaks? no. Ok I'll wear it now since it doesn't look too bad." Or there should be a list which is updated daily and I can see what weapons are wise to use.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 25, 2012, 11:19:10 am
Its really bad idea
If something is in use meake that cheaper becouse mor production=lovercosts
And that looms are mine, there is no factory wich produce  looms, you have you'r own or you makes that you'r self
Tomek you cant sepeak about upkeap because you don't understand that system.

Ah and peps will start making stupid ugly weeboshit anyl because no one use hat so thats cheap,
I have 10000000000000000000000000000000 of reasons why that idea is bad

Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: chadz on April 25, 2012, 11:19:56 am
Everyone: Y u no have  anything sensible to say??

I like the idea. Dynamicismium!

+1
+1

Motion carried.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Vibe on April 25, 2012, 11:21:40 am
+1

+1

Motion carried.

NO :(
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Christo on April 25, 2012, 11:23:17 am
Interesting idea, I'd love to see this with armors.

Make those kuyak wearers suffer!  :twisted:
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Tzar on April 25, 2012, 11:26:48 am
+1

+1

Motion carried.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Leshma on April 25, 2012, 12:54:07 pm
+1

+1

Motion carried.

Okay, big boy. How you plan to do it?

To make super cool algorithm which will gather data (which items are people using) and re-calculate item prices in real time or,

to equalize popularity with damage dealt and after each monthly or quarterly report force Fasader/Paul to manually adjust item prizes based on some formula you're gonna invent?

Knowing you guys, I'm pretty sure nothing will change.

Thomek's idea is good but the more you think about it more flaws you're going to discover.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Jarlek on April 25, 2012, 02:00:36 pm
Jesus Christ guys. Why so much rage against it? Don't look on it as penalizing people that use the popular items, think of it as a reward for people who use less-used items. Toss a bone to those who use items that most others don't!
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: chadz on April 25, 2012, 02:01:11 pm
Knowing you guys, I'm pretty sure nothing will change.
A-ha! Reverse psychology!

You devious clever little bugger, you!
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Kafein on April 25, 2012, 02:04:19 pm
In capitalism, the more an item is demanded (popularity) the more are produced and the cheaper they become. Only in a world of fixed supply would prices become higher if demand increased.

ECON 101

Except that in cRPG, the offer of all items is fixed. Higher demand, constant offer => higher prices.

This idea in general makes sense but would prove to be incredibly unfair with the current disbalances in variety of items in different categories (as I said, compare the number of DGS equivalents and the number of HL equivalents).
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 02:07:43 pm
A-ha! Reverse psychology!

You devious clever little bugger, you!

Yes or no chadzius? Seriously.. like.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 25, 2012, 02:12:45 pm
Yes or no chadzius? Seriously.. like.
Big decisions aren't made overnight, patience man :D
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Christo on April 25, 2012, 02:21:57 pm
I sense a huge upkeep increase of elite scimitars..

muhahaha.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Gurnisson on April 25, 2012, 02:23:44 pm
I would dodge the bullet with my gear, I guess
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Berserkadin on April 25, 2012, 02:57:13 pm
Well, instead of increasing upkeep on the more popular items, why not lower the upkeep on the less popular ones? Now that would reward players who use the less used items.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 25, 2012, 03:04:03 pm
My first generation was a shielder, after that i was a 2h for 15 generations, all with DGS. I like the look of it, i like the range of it and i like how it feels in my e-hands. Iv seen it nerfed, upkeep raised and the raised again and i still used it beacuse i just like it. I dont care if other people use it, i dont care if its the IN weapon.
I used it when the morningstar was the best, used it when the bar mace was the best, used it when the german was the best, but if the upkeep is raised considerably once more, which it will be in this popularity model, ill be forced not to use it.

So fuck your suggestion, and fuck your shittly weeaboo gear. If this goes trough i hope the katana price skyrockets to a plated charger so you can come back to this forum and whine how bad your suggestion was.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 03:28:54 pm
Aww..

The DGS is very very good for its price. The price don't reflect that imo. With this system it will.

So cry more.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 25, 2012, 03:39:12 pm
40 cut, katana got the +3 cut buff, and then you cried how the stab was useless. It is never enough is it? If the stab got 28 pierce you would cry how you cant one shot everything with it. Then when you realised direct buff suggestions stoped being noticed you go for the indirect ones like this. Nice try Thomek, nice try
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 25, 2012, 04:36:51 pm
Aww..

The DGS is very very good for its price. The price don't reflect that imo. With this system it will.

So cry more.

XD
dude you are so weeeboooo

that have only 3 cut more than spamtana
yes its long.... but that sword was long

and what about speed?
that weapon havent poleshitfukinjokestun , no bonus agains shield...nothing
that weapon is more balanced than anything els
soo GFYS

That idea is stupid because thatts ruin players gamestyle, upkeap balance nd gamestyle

There in no fukin law to punisch peps only because they use items what they like
And if you will reward peps with RARE you will see 123456 peps runing around in random strange shit
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Wiltzu on April 25, 2012, 04:37:00 pm
Thomek... this is not as stupid idea as Frank_The_Tank had with randomising stats but it's very close...

I think my left eye got little perma damage for reading this shit
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 25, 2012, 04:49:47 pm
The reason - why thomek make this thread- is- he play last time not much, then he come in game and every1 kill him easily, so he want nerf everything expect him, like 90% others whiners want.

For new players crpg becomes more and more hard, right now many prices stabilizing , so soon they will go down= less gold for tincans on repairs from lp, more possobility to earn money for new items for new players and easy to change items for old my old friends. I dont see money and marketplace problems at all.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Rebelyell on April 25, 2012, 04:55:12 pm
The reason - why thomek make this thread- is- he play last time not much, then he come in game and every1 kill him easily, so he want nerf everything expect him, like 90% others whiners want.

For new players crpg becomes more and more hard, right now many prices stabilizing , so soon they will go down= less gold for tincans on repairs from lp, more possobility to earn money for new items for new players and easy to change items for old my old friends. I dont see money and marketplace problems at all.

100% agree
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Wiltzu on April 25, 2012, 05:01:52 pm
The reason - why thomek make this thread- is- he play last time not much, then he come in game and every1 kill him easily, so he want nerf everything expect him, like 90% others whiners want.

For new players crpg becomes more and more hard, right now many prices stabilizing , so soon they will go down= less gold for tincans on repairs from lp, more possobility to earn money for new items for new players and easy to change items for old my old friends. I dont see money and marketplace problems at all.
100% agree
100% agree
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Tzar on April 25, 2012, 05:10:31 pm
Guys take it easy

1. Hes suggestion is so full of shit an fail tbh i dont think chadz is so retarded to add this

2. chadz an the others devs just enjoy watching you guys react to this thread like OMFG WTF DONT AdD THIS BUUUUHH FU TOMEK...

3. A large portion of the player base would never even notice the increased upkeep on their items since most of us including myself is so filthy rich we would still never run out of gold..

4. If you think about how many who would GTX after spending months n months getting their DGS an Kuyaks +3 fx. only to be unable to use it unless like i said they belong in the above...

I wouldn't worry about this at all if i where you or if you use a heavy lance danish great sword arbalest horn bow Arab war horse poleaxe great long axe italian or scimitar great maul rus bow ect ect ect ect ect ect.... the list goes on if chadz want people to use some of the less used gear he would have to buff the items..
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 05:31:48 pm
The reason - why thomek make this thread- is- he play last time not much, then he come in game and every1 kill him easily, so he want nerf everything expect him, like 90% others whiners want.

For new players crpg becomes more and more hard, right now many prices stabilizing , so soon they will go down= less gold for tincans on repairs from lp, more possobility to earn money for new items for new players and easy to change items for old my old friends. I dont see money and marketplace problems at all.

Stop talking thrash about me Agor. You have never contributed anything but wasted peoples time.

It's very well possible that tincan armor prices will go DOWN, as I personally think they may be overpriced for their utility.

Stop being so scared of finding the true price of an item.

But yes, Templars and Ninjas too will be hardest hit by this change. But not crippling if there is a limit to how much the price can change. Besides, most of us has a ton of cash and looms anyway..

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 25, 2012, 06:21:53 pm
No Thomek, they wont, and you know it. There are like 5 ninjas actively playing what are you talking about?
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Thomek on April 25, 2012, 07:14:53 pm
And an innumerable number of copies.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 25, 2012, 07:47:23 pm
Stop talking thrash about me Agor. You have never contributed anything but wasted peoples time.

It's very well possible that tincan armor prices will go DOWN, as I personally think they may be overpriced for their utility.

Stop being so scared of finding the true price of an item.

But yes, Templars and Ninjas too will be hardest hit by this change. But not crippling if there is a limit to how much the price can change. Besides, most of us has a ton of cash and looms anyway..

(click to show/hide)

Im, like many players, allready spended time to figure what we want to use, and how much gold we need on this, and ofc i dont want have shit on my head again, by looking every week or month on how much i will lose or even gain, it is just more pain. We dont need another gemoroi , it is just game for fun, not super duper weird capitalism how you want.

If you want do something, better make something with bolts come thru bodies, and fake block animations, it is more actual then some economic shit.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Jarlek on April 25, 2012, 07:55:33 pm
Well, instead of increasing upkeep on the more popular items, why not lower the upkeep on the less popular ones? Now that would reward players who use the less used items.
This is what I instantly thought and I like it. Give the guys using the never-used weapons a small gift.

Also, how the fuck is this a buff for Thomek and his ninjas? After the Kuyaks and DGS, katana and black lammelar is the most used items.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Lichen on April 26, 2012, 05:40:47 am
Base weapon upkeep on popularity?

Yes. It would help control there being too much of any 1 thing that often makes people start whine topics like (this bow, axe, horse etc is always used, nerf it, too good etc). Seems like this might be one way to help prevent nerfs. You'd think people would be for that but whiners are gonna whine of course. Also I'd like to see heirlooms have increased upkeep from non loomed items.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on April 26, 2012, 07:47:31 am
The matter of how much and in which direction the price goes is of great significance. But again. A small nerf for those with common items, and a large buff for those with uncommon items, could work aswell.

No Thomek, they wont, and you know it. There are like 5 ninjas actively playing what are you talking about?
I can name 10 that I've talked with and seen playing within a week.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Tzar on April 26, 2012, 09:19:42 am
I can name 10 that I've talked with and seen playing within a week.

10 players Out of what? 600 players..

I encourage everyone and their mother to wear lamellar vest an katanas for a whole week to grief these guys if chadz decide to suicide his mod  :lol:
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Vibe on April 26, 2012, 09:56:09 am
But yes, Templars and Ninjas too will be hardest hit by this change.

BAHAHAH I'm wondering who is still buying your shit, because this is just laughable. The hardest hit will be Danish Greatsword, which is not your sole intention at all, right?

l2 fight danishes, scrub
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Death_Dealer on April 26, 2012, 06:30:41 pm
popularity may effect the buying price only. but upkeep change is lol.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: kinngrimm on April 26, 2012, 08:37:00 pm
... ofc some clan can just burst prices on some items, to make bad for real users of this items.
you are really delusional mate :)
as anyone would care to make that effort. I am more concerned about my Clan Set Armor going up in prices because others choose the same for them(22nd,Nords,Grey Order alot of them running around with these).
I for myself used the Kujak because i liked the looks and it was one of the rare hairy pelty armors ^^ and it turned out to be an ok armor(in terms of minmaxers not the best choice; done the math).

Still i like the idear to get more fluctuation depending on item usage into the prices. Better and faster way to balance at least prices as any dev/admin ever would be able to do so.

And in the long run only those who are truely comitted to an item will see also the lowering of the prices after people jumped of the bandwagon.

Well, instead of increasing upkeep on the more popular items, why not lower the upkeep on the less popular ones? Now that would reward players who use the less used items.
i guess it would be both at the same time


rough suggestion in terms if gold costs fluctuation
buff by upto 2/3  those with less popular items
nerf by upto 1/3 those with more popular items

+1 for OP

(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Leshma on April 27, 2012, 12:58:14 pm
Yeah +1 for this idea, especially if they implement it in a way that they change prices manually after some time (which in their case can be 2 or 3 months easily). It would be like this:

Paul: Based on latest statistical research we came to conclusion that following items are underused and their price will be lowered:

Milanese Plate  15k gold
Flamberge       10k gold
Plated Charger 25k gold

WIN :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Lichen on April 27, 2012, 11:18:51 pm
My first generation was a shielder, after that i was a 2h for 15 generations, all with DGS. I like the look of it, i like the range of it and i like how it feels in my e-hands. Iv seen it nerfed, upkeep raised and the raised again and i still used it beacuse i just like it. I dont care if other people use it, i dont care if its the IN weapon.
I used it when the morningstar was the best, used it when the bar mace was the best, used it when the german was the best, but if the upkeep is raised considerably once more, which it will be in this popularity model, ill be forced not to use it.
You like your fav weapon so much yet increasing upkeep is the thing to finally make you not want to use your favorite weapon? If you like it as much as you claim I'd think you'd find a way to live with increased upkeep, you know sell a loom or something if you are that poor.
Title: Re: Another mad idea late at night. Base weapon upkeep on popularity!
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on April 28, 2012, 05:29:38 am
I would sell it if i wasnt so tired of leveling up again, absolutely hate the leveling process since they made the xp gain less. I am not THAT poor, but i will be because i use this weapon every time i play. And for fuck sake the upkeep has already been increased for the Danish, its finaly FINALY balanced and you want to fuck it again. Jeez