cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Aderyn on April 19, 2012, 02:36:57 pm

Title: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Aderyn on April 19, 2012, 02:36:57 pm
Arabian Warhorse
hit points: 100
body armor: 10
difficulty: 7
speed: 41
maneuver: 48
charge: 20

I'm not sure how to fix this horse but at the moment it's waaaaaaay too overpowered when you use a xbow on an arabian.

I feel the problem is the maneuvrability.

Ideas?
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Gurnisson on April 19, 2012, 03:01:50 pm
Shoot 1-3 arrows in it
Watch it die
???
Profit
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Overdriven on April 19, 2012, 03:11:52 pm
Not to mention it requires 7 riding.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Vibe on April 19, 2012, 03:16:36 pm
Swith to EU for less horse xbow
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Aderyn on April 19, 2012, 04:33:26 pm
Shoot 1-3 arrows in it
Watch it die
???
Profit

do you have any idea how hard it is to hit an arabian that can do 45 degreeturns instantly?
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Spanish on April 19, 2012, 05:12:34 pm
Sigh the only thing it has is it's maneuverability and the only reason it seems fast is because we have to get 7 damned riding instantly making us an agi build unless we sacrifice a lot of points just to get to 6 ps. It's costs more than the courser has less armor than both of the light horses less speed and requires more riding, less charge and until recently had less health. Really it's only benifit is its maneuverbility otherwise their is no reason to ride this horse.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 19, 2012, 05:32:16 pm
It doesn't need a nerf.  Requiring 7 riding is a huge hit because you need 21 agility.  I think it may be a little too maneuverable (only because my speed on the courser is negated by their turn radius and their acceleration), but that's just me being biased.  They should be able to out-maneuver a fast courser.

If you have an issue with horse crossbow it doesn't mean the arabian should be nerfed.  It's that the crossbows are so accurate from horseback.  That and there is no "bob" effect when riding a horse.  Whether using a lance or bow or crossbow, you should be bobbing up and down with each gallop.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: _Tak_ on April 19, 2012, 05:39:08 pm
lots of Hospitaller are lame trolls eh?
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on April 19, 2012, 05:45:18 pm
You're talking about the OP?  I'm hospitaller as well and you see me disagreeing with him.  Same with Spanish he's disagreeing as well.  It's not like we all think and agree about every piece of equipment the same, we're all individuals playing together in a faction.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Cup1d on April 19, 2012, 05:51:50 pm
Requiring 7 riding is a huge hit because you need 21 agility. 

Huge hit was 24 agility for cataphract and 30 agility for mamluke\plated charger.  At the times when grass was greener horses was balanced better.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Spanish on April 19, 2012, 06:59:27 pm
GK makes shitty cav...I could say stupid crap like that all day saying your entire clan sucks but I've never fought any of you or seen you guys play so how would I know? Same thing here you shouldnt go around accusing an entire clan of being lame trolls when Aderyn is tired of being shot by Xbow cav he can't shoot back at. And as for Lemmy idk what got into him.

Back to the topic horse Xbow shouldnt nerf the horse since that nerfs everyone who uses it and as it is most NA cav prefer the destrier and the courser due to the high riding and fragility of the Arabian
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: rustyspoon on April 19, 2012, 07:50:02 pm
Arabian is a good horse, but doesn't need to be nerfed. As soon as the rider makes 1 mistake on the Arabian...bye bye horsey.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Bulzur on April 19, 2012, 10:15:19 pm
Archers just need to focus on thoses damn horses when they come near.
It's really frustrating to shoot all the enemy's horses twice (or 4 times for destrier) and see all your teammates archer "dueling" other archers, and getting couched/lance while using their sad tunnel-vision... by a "near-death" horse.

Constant vigilance !
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Tears of Destiny on April 20, 2012, 12:50:04 am
Archers just need to focus on thoses damn horses when they come near.
It's really frustrating to shoot all the enemy's horses twice (or 4 times for destrier) and see all your teammates archer "dueling" other archers, and getting couched/lance while using their sad tunnel-vision... by a "near-death" horse.

Constant vigilance !

Most players would rather have high scores then kill a bunch of horses. If I spend my time going horse hunting, I barely break even with my K/D, but if I go people hunting, it is rather easy for me to be in the top 5 of my team in a packed server.
Thinking of the average player, which seems more attractive?
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Bulzur on April 20, 2012, 01:13:29 am
Well, average player should use an xbow, and shoot an horse. Bigger target, easier to hit. No tunnel vision, because you can look around while reloading, etc...

But arabian Warhorse are definitely not op.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Torben on April 20, 2012, 01:15:28 am
the guys that you are talkin about in op have 8 or nine riding minimum,  it aint the horse bing op,  its just hard because of the riders high specialization.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Cris on April 20, 2012, 01:25:07 am
Arabian Warhorse
hit points: 100
body armor: 10
difficulty: 7
speed: 41
maneuver: 48
charge: 20

I'm not sure how to fix this horse but at the moment it's waaaaaaay too overpowered when you use a xbow on an arabian.

I feel the problem is the maneuvrability.

Ideas?

Arabian warhorse is not the problem, the "problem" lies on crossbows having no special requirements like archery (PD) or throwing (PT).

Horse crossbowmen can have a lightcrossbow and get 30 agility, which means 5HA (great accuracy) and up to 10 WM and 10 Riding. The only way to fix this would be give crossbows PD requirement, but its unlikely to happen.

Leave the arabian WH as it is, its a nice horse at a high agility price.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Miley on April 20, 2012, 01:25:59 am
I don't think it's the horse that's the problem.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Mlekce on April 20, 2012, 02:40:08 am
GK makes shitty cav...I could say stupid crap like that all day saying your entire clan sucks but I've never fought any of you or seen you guys play so how would I know? Same thing here you shouldnt go around accusing an entire clan of being lame trolls when Aderyn is tired of being shot by Xbow cav he can't shoot back at. And as for Lemmy idk what got into him.

Back to the topic horse Xbow shouldnt nerf the horse since that nerfs everyone who uses it and as it is most NA cav prefer the destrier and the courser due to the high riding and fragility of the Arabian

Only player i respect form GK are kerrigan,he know to play as cav. Gk have tactic that they come with 10-15 ppl who ride horses,they have all stick together. So imagine now 2-3ha and one with courser and 2-3 with arabian warhorses and few with +3 destriers what they can do. They always make disbalance of teams and their team always have more cav so if they stick together as they do and ram others like police do in moust wanted like they do it is always garant of victory. I have no respect for them at all,because their strentght and skill is in number. Always when my team have more cav i have score like 9-1 kd.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Mlekce on April 20, 2012, 02:42:42 am
Arabian horse is totaly OP. It gives so much advantage to lancer that uses it,and only arrows can stop them. That horse always garant you win in duel with other lancers,unless you are total idiot or other player is pro.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Overdriven on April 20, 2012, 04:26:52 am
Arabian horse is totaly OP. It gives so much advantage to lancer that uses it,and only arrows can stop them. That horse always garant you win in duel with other lancers,unless you are total idiot or other player is pro.

 :?:  :|
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Piok on April 20, 2012, 09:36:17 am
Arabian horse is totaly OP. It gives so much advantage to lancer that uses it,and only arrows can stop them. That horse always garant you win in duel with other lancers,unless you are total idiot or other player is pro.
Arabian is small. The most OP combination is Arabian + shield + decent shield skill =  absolutely lanceproof horse. This applies to all horses but arabians are so small that magic force field protect them almost completely.Even frontal attack on horses head often ends in minor damage when magically shield is hit. Rider is also sitting more in front so also its gives him a bonus to length of his weapon.
Combine it with super long (ghostreach) arabian cavalry sword and you have totally Op bulletproof one hitting ninja horse   :shock:
So arabian Horses aren't magic but idiotic weaps balance combined with ultra forcefield makes them OP :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Korgoth on April 20, 2012, 10:49:10 am
do you have any idea how hard it is to hit an arabian that can do 45 degreeturns instantly?

Noob.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 10:56:19 am
Only player i respect form GK are kerrigan,he know to play as cav. Gk have tactic that they come with 10-15 ppl who ride horses,they have all stick together. So imagine now 2-3ha and one with courser and 2-3 with arabian warhorses and few with +3 destriers what they can do. They always make disbalance of teams and their team always have more cav so if they stick together as they do and ram others like police do in moust wanted like they do it is always garant of victory. I have no respect for them at all,because their strentght and skill is in number. Always when my team have more cav i have score like 9-1 kd.
I think this is called tactics and strategy. I personally think if you are fighting against them, come with some kind of counter strategy. What you need is some Rhodok discipline against their Khergit-wise invasion tactics. Just form a spearwall (schiltroom)+crossbow. Having 2-3 javelinmen would also help. Remember, this is something happened in history with the mongol invasion. But I hardly think it made a difference whether if their victims whined about mass enemy cavalry. Whining doesn't helps. But coming with a creative strategy, well that might help if you have a good one.

Arabian horse is totaly OP. It gives so much advantage to lancer that uses it,and only arrows can stop them. That horse always garant you win in duel with other lancers,unless you are total idiot or other player is pro.
I don't think lancers should be meant for duelling with each other. Cavalry's gamemode is battle, where 50 versus 50 is supposedly fighting. If you offer some valid argument that arabian warhorse users are much much more powerful in a teamfight; then we may think about it.

Arabian is small. The most OP combination is Arabian + shield + decent shield skill =  absolutely lanceproof horse. This applies to all horses but arabians are so small that magic force field protect them almost completely.Even frontal attack on horses head often ends in minor damage when magically shield is hit. Rider is also sitting more in front so also its gives him a bonus to length of his weapon.
Combine it with super long (ghostreach) arabian cavalry sword and you have totally Op bulletproof one hitting ninja horse   :shock:
So arabian Horses aren't magic but idiotic weaps balance combined with ultra forcefield makes them OP :mrgreen:
Hmm. I personally don't know the statistics of horses. The old system showed us the horse scale, but now they are magically disappeared. Well I always have thought that arabian warhorses are a bit weak statistically. But if what you say is true, Arabian warhorse clearly seems powerful (I make no comment if it is OP or not. I just said powerful). Yet I think all of the horses are easy to being hit by good archers and throwers, considering all of the horses have much more scale than the human body. It makes sense that being able to dodge ranged projectiles with arabian horse, since it has considerably very low health and armor. Which compensates their weakness, and brings a manner of balance in my opinion. Even though, they are actually open to hit no matter what. It seems like a total gambit between the archer and the rider. Whichever is better (Combine the luck factor with skill factor here, to determine which one is better) he/she simply wins.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Kafein on April 20, 2012, 11:57:48 am
Horse Xbow bundle of sticksry is an NA problem.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 12:35:25 pm
Horse Xbow bundle of sticksry is an NA problem.
No guarentee it will not happen in EU too.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Kafein on April 20, 2012, 12:42:39 pm
No guarentee it will not happen in EU too.

That is true, but as other people pointed out, the horse is not the problem. It lacks max speed, charge and survivability.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Mlekce on April 20, 2012, 02:08:02 pm
That is true, but as other people pointed out, the horse is not the problem. It lacks max speed, charge and survivability.

Great manouver,great aceleration,loomed it can outrun +2 destrier. You wanna more?


Quote
I think this is called tactics and strategy. I personally think if you are fighting against them, come with some kind of counter strategy. What you need is some Rhodok discipline against their Khergit-wise invasion tactics. Just form a spearwall (schiltroom)+crossbow. Having 2-3 javelinmen would also help. Remember, this is something happened in history with the mongol invasion. But I hardly think it made a difference whether if their victims whined about mass enemy cavalry. Whining doesn't helps. But coming with a creative strategy, well that might help if you have a good one.

yes i got strategy,i swich to their banner so i don't get reaped by HA. Almoust always when they play you can see 3 horse crossbows from mercs,or 2-3HC from bandits in their team. Only clan that gives balance and can counter is byzantium,because they bring lot of players,good players in team.

Quote
I don't think lancers should be meant for duelling with each other. Cavalry's gamemode is battle, where 50 versus 50 is supposedly fighting. If you offer some valid argument that arabian warhorse users are much much more powerful in a teamfight; then we may think about it.
Hmm. I personally don't know the statistics of horses. The old system showed us the horse scale, but now they are magically disappeared. Well I always have thought that arabian warhorses are a bit weak statistically. But if what you say is true, Arabian warhorse clearly seems powerful (I make no comment if it is OP or not. I just said powerful). Yet I think all of the horses are easy to being hit by good archers and throwers, considering all of the horses have much more scale than the human body. It makes sense that being able to dodge ranged projectiles with arabian horse, since it has considerably very low health and armor. Which compensates their weakness, and brings a manner of balance in my opinion. Even though, they are actually open to hit no matter what. It seems like a total gambit between the archer and the rider. Whichever is better (Combine the luck factor with skill factor here, to determine which one is better) he/she simply wins.
I think that lancers should fight other cav,not just kill unaware infrantery. Every noob can kill unaware infrantery,but for cav duels you need skill.
For archers that is easy. You don't attack aware archer because it will almoust always hit your horse head,but for crossbows u wait for them to miss and while they reload you attack them.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 02:43:20 pm
yes i got strategy,i swich to their banner so i don't get reaped by HA. Almoust always when they play you can see 3 horse crossbows from mercs,or 2-3HC from bandits in their team. Only clan that gives balance and can counter is byzantium,because they bring lot of players,good players in team.
Hmm. You got a point there. But methinks, this problem is not due to mass cavalry. It is banner balance. Same thing happens in Siege as well, with HRE. Half of players use their banner.

I think that lancers should fight other cav,not just kill unaware infrantery. Every noob can kill unaware infrantery,but for cav duels you need skill.
For archers that is easy. You don't attack aware archer because it will almoust always hit your horse head,but for crossbows u wait for them to miss and while they reload you attack them.
Ok. You are right here. My bad. Lancer should be fighting with lancer (or other cav) as well. That is true. Yet, I think a heavy cavalry should be focused on infantry rather than enemy light cavalry. Just because it is, light cavalry. Meaning they are more mobile and fast, while they sacrifice power and strength. At least this is how it supposed to be.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Bulzur on April 20, 2012, 03:30:28 pm
Hmm. You got a point there. But methinks, this problem is not due to mass cavalry. It is banner balance.

hum, mass cavalry is as irritating as a mass xbow. But that's another problem, balance not being able to distinguish "class", and thus some "no win possible" situation.

But the horse is definitely not the problem.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Spanish on April 20, 2012, 09:22:12 pm
Great manouver,great aceleration,loomed it can outrun +2 destrier. You wanna more?

You forget that the Arabian can only outrun a destrier because the rider has to have more looms and sacrifice strength points for more riding which a person on a destrier can do anyways. Their is nothing restricting a cavalry player riding a destrier to go to 7 riding and if he has a champion an Arabian rider will be still be slower so that arguement about it being faster is only due to the fact ppl on destriers like the str more than he agility.

Reading all most of these posts it's been decided that it's not the horse that's the problem so don't nerf my beautiful champion Arabian! It's all I have that makes me happy :/
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Aderyn on April 21, 2012, 05:23:51 am
ITT: players with loomed arabians trying to not get their precious loomed ponys nerfed.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 21, 2012, 05:46:44 am
ITT: Another thread made by person who doesn't understand the power of higher riding skill involved the situation. It doesn't matter what horse you use if you have 8 riding you will be outrunning even coursers.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: BlindGuy on April 21, 2012, 06:07:48 am
ITT: Another thread made by person who doesn't understand the power of higher riding skill involved the situation. It doesn't matter what horse you use if you have 8 riding you will be outrunning even coursers.

Any thread talking about nerfing ANYTHING from the king of running like a my old friend can safely be ignored, yes.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 21, 2012, 06:11:09 am
Any thread talking about nerfing ANYTHING from the king of running like a my old friend can safely be ignored, yes.
Did we finally find a thread where we agree on something? :O
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: BlindGuy on April 21, 2012, 06:15:41 am
Did we finally find a thread where we agree on something? :O

We agree all the time but I dont like to admit it incase someone thinks I am actually a nice guy. Cant have ppl thinking that.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Aderyn on April 21, 2012, 01:08:18 pm
king of running huh?
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Spanish on April 21, 2012, 06:48:56 pm
ITT: players with loomed arabians trying to not get their precious loomed ponys nerfed.

Hell yeah im fighting this over my Champ Arabian! I only decided to use it after they had buffed the health to be on par with the courser because it was so damn fragile. It has few advantages stat wise over the other light horses. The only thing an Arabian has over the courser is literally agility, the courser has better speed, charge, armor and less upkeep and less riding. 21 agility to ride an Arabian makes us agility builds with high riding means we have a lot maneuverability inherently just because we have to get the 7 riding. So if you want us to dodge less you should have the riding requirement lowered if anything.
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: ROHYPNOL on April 22, 2012, 02:32:39 am
aderyn i think you are a good archer.. why are you even possibly complaining about an arabian anyway.. shoot 2 arrows into it sometimes 1 and its dead from med range.. pretty sure people trying to nerf everything i use.. its odd
Title: Re: Arabian WarHorses
Post by: Ronin on April 22, 2012, 06:22:15 pm
aderyn i think you are a good archer.. why are you even possibly complaining about an arabian anyway.. shoot 2 arrows into it sometimes 1 and its dead from med range.. pretty sure people trying to nerf everything i use.. its odd
True. but let me make it a bit more accurate. "People are trying to nerf everything they use.. it's odd"