cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Aleskander on April 18, 2012, 04:49:50 pm

Title: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 18, 2012, 04:49:50 pm
Seriously, for the second most expensive shield, it sucks

It is the shield with the least coverage
It is somehow not the fastest shield
It can be one-shotted by a poleaxe


Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Herkkutatti on April 18, 2012, 05:02:11 pm
-0 slot
-can take 100 hits by not shield breaker weapons
-fast
-light weight
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 18, 2012, 05:28:00 pm
-0 slot
-can take 100 hits by not shield breaker weapons
-fast
-light weight

It's not that much faster than other shields
Where did you get the statistics that it can be hit by even non shield breaker weapons and not break?
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Ronin on April 18, 2012, 05:29:19 pm
Buckler is especially good with high shield skill. It is also supposed to be as fast as manual block. Basically it is a manual block with omni-block, not a shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Herkkutatti on April 18, 2012, 05:29:53 pm
all the metal shields have low HP but good resistance, which means it can't take lots of axe hits but it can take lots of sword hits.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: PanPan on April 18, 2012, 05:36:15 pm
Well. I made a Archer Build with :
(click to show/hide)

And it died after 3-5 hits of a non shield breakable wepaon.

So it kinda sucks. But I liked it cus it's fast.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Herkkutatti on April 18, 2012, 05:38:41 pm
You need high shield skill (5-8) to make it almost unbreakable to swords
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: PanPan on April 18, 2012, 05:40:19 pm
Yeh but sometimes I used another shield (Elite cav shield) and it didn't broke as fast as the buckler.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Herkkutatti on April 18, 2012, 05:43:31 pm
elite cav shield has over 100 moar hit points. buckler sucks but no need to nerf or buff it, its ok that the stats are pretty shitty because its 0 slot shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Leshma on April 18, 2012, 06:45:12 pm
Shields are okay up to 6 shield skill, after that they become OP (which is something KingGylpe and Kinngrimm abuse on daily basis). If you want to see true power of your buckler make 12/24 shielder using steel pick. If you get to 33 you can have 5 PS or even more shield skill and athletics.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Turboflex on April 18, 2012, 07:43:22 pm
Bucklers were designed to be used for fencing swordfights with people using light swords, not for medieval  battlefields where guys are running around in plate armour and using linebreaking weapons like heavy axes and 2h swords where heavy  shields were effective.

They were only added to the game as a novelty, so people could RP some kind of italian duelist if they wanted, you can't expect them to be balanced to par with a huscarl shield or norman kite shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 18, 2012, 07:51:31 pm
it is good as it is, for 0 sloted shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Mala on April 18, 2012, 10:51:20 pm
Buckler is especially good with high shield skill. It is also supposed to be as fast as manual block. Basically it is a manual block with omni-block, not a shield.

Naa, with manual blocking you can deflect hits from the rear and the sides. This does not work with a buckler.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 18, 2012, 10:55:22 pm
Just tested, even with 6 shield skill a lance killed it with about 5 hits
Seriously, all it has going for it is that it is 0 slot and fast


Bucklers were designed to be used for fencing swordfights with people using light swords, not for medieval  battlefields where guys are running around in plate armour and using linebreaking weapons like heavy axes and 2h swords where heavy  shields were effective.

They were only added to the game as a novelty, so people could RP some kind of italian duelist if they wanted, you can't expect them to be balanced to par with a huscarl shield or norman kite shield.

Notice that this is in the game balance area and not the realism section
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Vexus on April 18, 2012, 11:13:36 pm
It's a dueling shield it's not meant to last a war, game balance or not.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 18, 2012, 11:15:00 pm
Just tested, even with 6 shield skill a lance killed it with about 5 hits
Seriously, all it has going for it is that it is 0 slot and fast


Notice that this is in the game balance area and not the realism section

if yu want better shield go and take other shield, what the problem?
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: SirProto on April 18, 2012, 11:27:16 pm
Back when I had 7 shield my bucker lasted for absolutely ages against greatswords, 1hs, spears and if I remember correctly it could take about 5-6 blows from a great axe before it broke

but to be honest, if you see someone with an axe coming at you as a shielder its often much better to put your shield on your back for a 1 vs 1 with them
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Digglez on April 18, 2012, 11:55:50 pm
doesnt make much sense that smallest shield requires the MOST skill requirement to use.

You should be able to use it (not well) if you want

just like you should be able to pick up and throw anything or shoot a bow, abit with terrible speed & accuracy
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on April 19, 2012, 12:07:19 am
doesnt make much sense that smallest shield requires the MOST skill requirement to use.
Makes perfect sense to me.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 12:23:32 am
edit on topic:
LeoKing, used/uses steel buckler for a long time, he was top of scorebored. I don't think it had only to do with his shield skill or the shield himself though, but understanding game mechanics and that needs experience and also to read onto those topics here in the forum and most important spectate good players (those in your class to see how they handle different foes and those of other classes to see if they use similar patterns and then you can find a way to get to them).
Steel buckler 5-8 shield skill depending on weapon and what overall playstyle you are going for.

If you see axes or other shieldbreakers(make yourself familier with all of them how they look) and you have someone close by and there is at least another enemy without sheildbreaker it is a about foodwork so that you can position yourself that you engage the foe without sheildbreaker or are able to switch inbetween them. If it is only one enemy and you have a wingman, then let him be the front man and you try to get hits from the side. If you are the one facing the shieldbreaker you need to play high risk and very agressiv, meaning feintspam, outmanouver and spam when you think he would glance.


...which is something KingGylpe and Kinngrimm abuse on daily basis...
QQ their shields dont break in 4 strikes aboooze, they use forcefield, QQ i cant block shit so i need excuses to blame others because it just cant be me doing mistakes. There are plenty of players who get normal attacks which you often don't get, there are a lot of players who catch me feinting and kill me still. When i spectate you i often think to myself oh god why the fuck didn't he saw that coming, i think that with you more then with others i never lost a word till now about it. You fail on such a tremendous level so often, i see you regularly disengage out of fights leaving your teammates to die because you were hit one time. Sure you will then be the last on the battle field, but that doesn't make your team allways win.
Abuse my ass. I needed to invest fucking awful lots of points into a skill which basicly allows me only to have my shield not been broken for a little bit longer, when the fuck is your or other weapons are broken ... Leshma just give me more of the bs come at me.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 19, 2012, 01:34:23 am
Back when I had 7 shield my bucker lasted for absolutely ages against greatswords, 1hs, spears and if I remember correctly it could take about 5-6 blows from a great axe before it broke

but to be honest, if you see someone with an axe coming at you as a shielder its often much better to put your shield on your back for a 1 vs 1 with them

Really?
I'm calling BS. And even if you are telling the truth, it shouldn't take 7 shield skill to get a shield that virtually can't block projectiles on par with others. I'm not complaining that a GLA can 3 shot my shield, I'm complaining that it can be 3 shot by a longsword.


if yu want better shield go and take other shield, what the problem?

Game BALANCE
If it is a aesthetic item it should not be the second most expensive shield
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Leshma on April 19, 2012, 01:39:28 am
edit on topic:
QQ their shields dont break in 4 strikes aboooze, they use forcefield, QQ i cant block shit so i need excuses to blame others because it just cant be me doing mistakes. There are plenty of players who get normal attacks which you often don't get, there are a lot of players who catch me feinting and kill me still. When i spectate you i often think to myself oh god why the fuck didn't he saw that coming, i think that with you more then with others i never lost a word till now about it. You fail on such a tremendous level so often, i see you regularly disengage out of fights leaving your teammates to die because you were hit one time. Sure you will then be the last on the battle field, but that doesn't make your team allways win.
Abuse my ass. I needed to invest fucking awful lots of points into a skill which basicly allows me only to have my shield not been broken for a little bit longer, when the fuck is your or other weapons are broken ... Leshma just give me more of the bs come at me.

(click to show/hide)

Kinngrimm, you're right about me failing a lot. I'm not the best player but I know how to get kills. People know that. People also know that you're a nice guy and total scrub who hides behind his shield since he started playing this game. I know that because I remember when you started playing, I was among first people that helped you with some things :wink:
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Vexus on April 19, 2012, 01:40:35 am
Same reason could be said for the weaboo stuff.

They are more expensive then what they should be because of their aesthetic just like the rich outfits in armour.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 02:11:30 am
Kinngrimm, you're right about me failing a lot. I'm not the best player but I know how to get kills. People know that. People also know that you're a nice guy and total scrub who hides behind his shield since he started playing this game. I know that because I remember when you started playing, I was among first people that helped you with some things :wink:
Leshma i am just tired, of people calling me abuuser, while i don't use cheats, bugs or unknown gamemechanics which not everyone could use for themselves. STF 15 shieldskill builds had been out there, indistructable shields, i dont even have that and never will, i just go for durability so i get a chance to strike and yes i am stubborn about my shield, majorly because it takes so much time to get anywhere here in this game and i never could be arsed to learn manual blocking in that way yes i am a nuub and i intend to keep it that way. The nice thing about different classes is, noone has to do it in a fixed way. And i challenge anyone to use the exact build i posted in "solid builds" thread to use it and get not only my scores but as many people can vouch for also be there when a teammate needs help. I go out on the flank to go get back to the center for several reason.

One of my first suggestions i have done, was that we should be able to respec at any given time, so that you would be able to basicly play any class at any time. You wouldn't loose stuff to STF or alts, you would be able to fill out roles in strategus as needed. You would need to make more genereations more often for more weapons  if you want to loom stuff for different classes therefor would go later for max level. You would gain soo much flexibility,
but it is not heared by our god.
So i am stuck with a leveling system which binds me to the one class i like best and want to get better in.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Angantyr on April 19, 2012, 02:35:44 am
Besides speed and massive resistance one of the buckler's greatest strengths is its low weight.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: kinngrimm on April 19, 2012, 03:27:55 am
Besides speed and massive resistance one of the buckler's greatest strengths is its low weight.
true and that combined with high ath and less weight in other gear, makes you unbelievable fast in movement and you can do crazy stuff that way
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 19, 2012, 03:28:49 am
Same reason could be said for the weaboo stuff.

They are more expensive then what they should be because of their aesthetic just like the rich outfits in armour.
The weaboo stuff is decent at least

Maybe it's because of all the strength builds on the NA servers that make it seem to be paper. Only thing I can think of. The large resistance may look good on paper but in game it is actually quite shitty
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: SirProto on April 19, 2012, 07:53:07 am
Really?
I'm calling BS. And even if you are telling the truth, it shouldn't take 7 shield skill to get a shield that virtually can't block projectiles on par with others. I'm not complaining that a GLA can 3 shot my shield, I'm complaining that it can be 3 shot by a longsword.

I shit you not!

The weaboo stuff is decent at least

Maybe it's because of all the strength builds on the NA servers that make it seem to be paper. Only thing I can think of. The large resistance may look good on paper but in game it is actually quite shitty

And this may be why, I play on EU, there's far more agility builds here which do a ton less damage to the shield :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Vibe on April 19, 2012, 08:07:01 am
Did you see the force field on that thing? Fucking ridiculous. Small shields shouldn't have this much coverage.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Brrrak on April 19, 2012, 08:17:20 am
The weaboo stuff is decent at least

Maybe it's because of all the strength builds on the NA servers that make it seem to be paper. Only thing I can think of. The large resistance may look good on paper but in game it is actually quite shitty

I dunno, I can rely on a buckler on my 1h/2h alt with only about 5 shield for a good while.  It's great fun using it with a long dagger.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Haze_The_Hobo on April 19, 2012, 10:28:27 am
Buckler op already, with small size it covers your front and sides, also it is 0 slots and incredible durability. If they buff it, every hybrid has this in their inventory.


I WANT BONUS AGAINST SHIELDS 2H-SWORDS!!!
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Turboflex on April 19, 2012, 05:26:18 pm
Did you see the force field on that thing? Fucking ridiculous. Small shields shouldn't have this much coverage.

It's fine... the force field is abstracting that in real life a person has better peripheral senses than you get through monitor/speakers and could move their shield better to deflect incoming attacks. if there was none it would be way too easy to swing around a shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Mala on April 19, 2012, 10:14:59 pm
Buckler op already, with small size it covers your front and sides, also it is 0 slots and incredible durability. If they buff it, every hybrid has this in their inventory.


I WANT BONUS AGAINST SHIELDS 2H-SWORDS!!!


It covers you from frontal attacks, from the side not so much.
And there are two bucklers, back then they had nearly the same characteristics.
Today you have the 0 slot round one (offers a quite good coverage for its size, breaks quite fast and is ass expensive) and the 1 slot oval one (offers a bit worse coverage than the round one but it is a way more durable and also ass expensive).
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Aleskander on April 19, 2012, 10:57:30 pm
Did you see the force field on that thing? Fucking ridiculous. Small shields shouldn't have this much coverage.

It's really not that bad

I'm for the removal of force-fields from the game
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Froto_the_Loc on April 19, 2012, 11:07:10 pm
Looked through most of the posts, yet I saw no one clarify which buckler we are talking about.
Most people just assumed the 0 slot baddie.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Angantyr on April 20, 2012, 02:30:18 am
I was referring to both of them.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: SirProto on April 20, 2012, 07:20:42 am
Looked through most of the posts, yet I saw no one clarify which buckler we are talking about.
Most people just assumed the 0 slot baddie.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


this is the one I'm talking about
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 20, 2012, 07:28:19 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


this is the one I'm talking about
this is 1 slot , and it is much better then round 1.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: SirProto on April 20, 2012, 07:32:51 am
this is 1 slot , and it is much better then round 1.

That's exactly why I use it  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 20, 2012, 09:29:47 am
No I think we should buff Long Volouge.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Ronin on April 20, 2012, 11:42:16 am
Stop spamming the same thing in all threads you bump-arse.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on April 20, 2012, 02:35:31 pm
Stop spamming the same thing in all threads you bump-arse.

I'm just adding to the conversation about buffing the long volouge... wait I mean this shield or what ever, I don't know. But yeah that Long Volouge sure could use a buff.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: SirProto on April 20, 2012, 06:43:07 pm
No I think we should buff Long Volouge.

Free long voulge!!!
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Rumblood on April 20, 2012, 08:12:28 pm
Did you see the force field on that thing? Fucking ridiculous. Small shields shouldn't have this much coverage.

Yep. They slurp arrows aimed at the feet like they are going up a straw  :o
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: San on April 20, 2012, 09:53:23 pm
I tried it once and it was useless for me. Not worth it at all.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: H3ADSH0T on April 20, 2012, 10:15:43 pm
The only buff the buckler needs is to not look absolutely ridiculous
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Jarlek on April 21, 2012, 03:11:03 am
Free long voulge!!!
If he makes some sweet looking signature pics, I'll support it!
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: JennaHaze on April 22, 2012, 10:52:13 pm
I had a buckler with 3-33 build and a guy with +3 great long axe broke it with 2 hits
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on April 22, 2012, 11:02:45 pm
I had a buckler with 3-33 build and a guy with +3 great long axe broke it with 2 hits

maybe he has 33-3 build lol)

ofc noloomed buckler is crap, but when you loom it, it is pretty good 0 sloted shield.
Title: Re: Buff the Buckler already
Post by: Nazurdin on April 25, 2012, 08:33:40 pm
Leave the buckler alone, its fine as it is.
(click to show/hide)