cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Thomek on April 13, 2012, 01:12:19 am
-
But it is for any pure 2h/polearm build.
118 wpf is enough to work any weapon well enough. I know since I have 122 in 2h, and can manage OK with a katana on the duel servers..
WPM or not is a dilemma mostly for hybrids. For pure melee chars it's an almost worthless stat. IF is way better.. for most builds. Especially since STR+IF+Heavy armor are a powerful combo.
look at free wpf - so you cant have 0 wpm and 120 wpf, which is more than good enough. Perhaps reduce it by 50%.
Adjust the wpm curve - accordingly so taking wpm is more worth it at the end part of the scale.
Adjust the wpf eating function - so we won't get game breaking amounts of wpf in the top.
Of course, this is risking putting the whole game balance off. (as you are moving the foundations of all other balance decisions)
But if carefully done, shouldn't be too harmful. No one would die from a little shakeup :D
Before anyone rages, I'm talking a SMALL adjustment here.
Carefully done so taking WPM becomes slightly more valuable.
-
Meh, I kind of disagree.
Given the current diminishing returns, HIGH WPF could certainly use a buff, but I like that you aren't necessarily HEAVILY penalized for just using the points that you get from leveling up.
If you're a high STR crutching tin can your effective WPF still does drop below 100 which penalizes you, and you don't see the (Small) benefit for going over 100... I think it's fairly well balanced.
-
Weapon master is shit for pure melee builds. I retired my 21/18 build with 6 WM into a 12 agi build with no WM. I notice a minimal decrease in swing speed and that kick-thrusting with my +3 pike is harder to do, but apart from that it's no big difference. Yes, WM adds some damage, but I've got more than enough PS to cover that. Buff WM!
-
I don't think that nerfing the standard wpf gained is the solution (it would also hurt ranged classes a lot).
Perhaps tone down diminishing returns for all melee wpf would help make WM more attractive to stack. Since players can't get crazy high levels anymore having someone around 200 wpf isn't that big of a deal.
-
Where's the argument that 0WM should not be viable?
-
Honestly, things are fine how they are. WM is for a specific purpose: making hybrids, using a slow weapon or reducing upkeep.
Changing the mechanics in order to FORCE people to use it is a dumb idea. One fun part about CRPG is that you can tailor your builds as much as you want. If a certain amount of WM became a requirement it would force people to use similar builds, which ain't that fun.
I just don't get what the big deal is that some people can get away with 0 WM.
Some people use 0 IF. Some people use 0 Shield. Some use 0 PD. You can see where I'm going with this...
-
Wouldn't fix much.
Imo a better solution would be giving a greater bonus for people with 120+ wpf.
-
Buff WM!
-
As a fan of Agility builds, I approve, even with 180 WPF in any given class of weapon, the speed difference between me and someone that has much less WPF is so minimal that it doesn't make any difference unless the person I'm fighting has 120 ping and over.
-
WEAPON MASTER BUFF
I WANT TO HYBRID MORE
-
Free WM should get you like 70-80 by level 30, but it's hard to really balance everything without making hybrids more effective. Already starting to see more hybrids recently (especially polearm + 1h or throwing+1h), and as a 1h+ polearm hybrid, it is already pretty dang good.
Also most people don't really care too much about giving people free wpf up to 110-120. Lowering it may give more balance but just end up getting people angry since they have to re-order their carefully structured stats.
Messing with the wpf curve is much harder to tweak and balance but may end up more rewarding imo.
-
I know since I have 122 in 2h, and can manage OK with a katana on the duel servers..
You mean you can swing fast enough with 122 WPF, very light armor and one of the fastest weapons in the game? Who would have thought!
-
Don't nerf free wpf, just buff WM so it matters for melee more.
-
so, over 120 WPF is heavily diminished returns? I thought it used to be like over 150....did this change?
-
Don't nerf free wpf, just buff WM so it matters for melee more.
Well straight up buffing WM would inadvertently buff ranged classes, but if you mean do something to make them help melee exclusively then I agree.
-
Well straight up buffing WM would inadvertently buff ranged classes, but if you mean do something to make them help melee exclusively then I agree.
Yup, I was assuming that range would be adjusted accordingly by steepening the accuracy curve for bows and crossbows and throwing, and/or increasing the wpf/pd ratio.
Range is perfectly fine, it is the melee that needs the buff.
-
Yup, I was assuming that range would be adjusted accordingly by steepening the accuracy curve for bows and crossbows and throwing, and/or increasing the wpf/pd ratio.
Range is perfectly fine, it is the melee that needs the buff.
so what you say is if wm gets a buff, then at the same time the ranged wmp distribution needs a slight nerf?
-
Range is perfectly fine, it is the melee that needs the buff.
I honestly don't see why melee needs a WPF buff, or why the devs should spend the time rebalancing a bunch of shit just to make that work.
WM has its uses, it's just not for every build nor should it be. If you're using a slow weapon, WM is VERY useful. If you're using a very fast weapon, it's not that big of a deal. I don't see what the problem is.
-
i tested from 120 - 190 wpf, before and after the big respec patch a year ago
i narrowed it down for the weapon i use to 140(other weapons do need different amounts also different playstyles and different classes do need different amounts) So a steel pick which i use is just fine with 140. With 160 which for me is a notable difference to 140 a steel pick is at its peak. With lvl 37 i intend to reach it, in 4 years from now :lol:
A bit more general: For 1h weapons with a base speed around 98-101, for me it feels like their peak is in between 140 and 160 wpm, afterwards the increase is not worth mentioning.
-
so what you say is if wm gets a buff, then at the same time the ranged wmp distribution needs a slight nerf?
I'm saying that a buff to WM would buff range, so the curve/penalties would have to be readjusted so that in the end (the long run), range is not effected and only melee is better then what it is now.
-
While i agree that the 120 wpf might be alot from not investing any points into wpf i simly dont wanna see it go because combat is slow hell all ready this would just slower the speed even more :rolleyes:
-
Archery should just be on a different WPF system than melee for obvious reasons. I agree that WPF needs to have a reward. I made a 39/3 STF duelist with a katana and honestly, it feels leaps faster than my 24/15 polearm, albeit, the katana is fast, but it shows how useless wpf is right now.
-
Au contraire, my old friend.
I think in an optimal world all builds should be viable.
-
I'd say leave the no WM people alone but significantly decrease weapon upkeep costs for those with high MW, maybe even make it branch out to armor a little bit?
This would emulate a trained weapon user being less rough on his equipment (heh) than a strength build who's strong but kinda dumb.
-
I vote for less WPF gained per level. Then buff general accuracy of ranged to compensate
Or make WPF tied more to damage per hit rather than speed of attack
-
speed should depend more on build and less on weapon
-
Sounds like a good idea, atleast for a wpf spammer, mehself :P
-
no just no, dont touch it, no no no no no thomek why do you come with such suggestions, no non ononono its gonna ruin the game totally, nonononono thomek you are a pariah , nononono dont do it , no nonono
-
Well, why the hell dont you make IF mandatory too? You could buff WM but dont make it mandatory.
-
Btw, I think there are linked problems here :
Melee isn't dependent on wpf enough (fighting with 1 wpf is harder but not impossible either)
Range is too dependent on wpf (especially archers)
The balance between the free and the WM wpf isn't right.
So : sharpen the wpf dependency of melee and smooth that of range, reduce the wpf/level and increase the wpf/WM.
-
You do realize that any buff to range (direct or indirect) even if needed will have people burn you at the stake, right?
-
I dont like that melee use xbow with 1 wpf, make so that i can take xbows only when i have 100 wpf in crossbow.
-
You do realize that any buff to range (direct or indirect) even if needed will have people burn you at the stake, right?
True, nerf ranged first then stealth buff in some cases. Both whinners and ToD will be happy.
-
not so much wpf given out by levels, more given via wm?