0 Weaponmaster should not be viable.

[Thomek]

But it is for any pure 2h/polearm build.

118 wpf is enough to work any weapon well enough. I know since I have 122 in 2h, and can manage OK with a katana on the duel servers..

WPM or not is a dilemma mostly for hybrids. For pure melee chars it's an almost worthless stat. IF is way better.. for most builds. Especially since STR+IF+Heavy armor are a powerful combo.
 
look at free wpf - so you cant have 0 wpm and 120 wpf, which is more than good enough. Perhaps reduce it by 50%.

Adjust the wpm curve - accordingly so taking wpm is more worth it at the end part of the scale.

Adjust the wpf eating function - so we won't get game breaking amounts of wpf in the top.

Of course, this is risking putting the whole game balance off. (as you are moving the foundations of all other balance decisions)

But if carefully done, shouldn't be too harmful. No one would die from a little shakeup

Before anyone rages, I'm talking a SMALL adjustment here.

Carefully done so taking WPM becomes slightly more valuable.

[RibaldRon]

Meh, I kind of disagree.

Given the current diminishing returns, HIGH WPF could certainly use a buff, but I like that you aren't necessarily HEAVILY penalized for just using the points that you get from leveling up.

If you're a high STR crutching tin can your effective WPF still does drop below 100 which penalizes you, and you don't see the (Small) benefit for going over 100... I think it's fairly well balanced.

[Gurnisson]

Weapon master is shit for pure melee builds. I retired my 21/18 build with 6 WM into a 12 agi build with no WM. I notice a minimal decrease in swing speed and that kick-thrusting with my +3 pike is harder to do, but apart from that it's no big difference. Yes, WM adds some damage, but I've got more than enough PS to cover that. Buff WM!

[MrShine]

I don't think that nerfing the standard wpf gained is the solution (it would also hurt ranged classes a lot).

Perhaps tone down diminishing returns for all melee wpf would help make WM more attractive to stack.  Since players can't get crazy high levels anymore having someone around 200 wpf isn't that big of a deal.

[Wraist]

Where's the argument that 0WM should not be viable?

[rustyspoon]

Honestly, things are fine how they are. WM is for a specific purpose: making hybrids, using a slow weapon or reducing upkeep.

Changing the mechanics in order to FORCE people to use it is a dumb idea. One fun part about CRPG is that you can tailor your builds as much as you want. If a certain amount of WM became a requirement it would force people to use similar builds, which ain't that fun.

I just don't get what the big deal is that some people can get away with 0 WM.

Some people use 0 IF. Some people use 0 Shield. Some use 0 PD. You can see where I'm going with this...

[Vexus]

Wouldn't fix much.

Imo a better solution would be giving a greater bonus for people with 120+ wpf.

[Logen]

Buff WM!

[Vkvkvk]

As a fan of Agility builds, I approve, even with 180 WPF in any given class of weapon, the speed difference between me and someone that has much less WPF is so minimal that it doesn't make any difference unless the person I'm fighting has 120 ping and over.

[TurmoilTom]

WEAPON MASTER BUFF

I WANT TO HYBRID MORE

[San]

Free WM should get you like 70-80 by level 30, but it's hard to really balance everything without making hybrids more effective. Already starting to see more hybrids recently (especially polearm + 1h or throwing+1h), and as a 1h+ polearm hybrid, it is already pretty dang good.

Also most people don't really care too much about giving people free wpf up to 110-120. Lowering it may give more balance but just end up getting people angry since they have to re-order their carefully structured stats.

Messing with the wpf curve is much harder to tweak and balance but may end up more rewarding imo.

[zagibu]

I know since I have 122 in 2h, and can manage OK with a katana on the duel servers..

You mean you can swing fast enough with 122 WPF, very light armor and one of the fastest weapons in the game? Who would have thought!

[Tears of Destiny]

Don't nerf free wpf, just buff WM so it matters for melee more.

[Elindor]

so, over 120 WPF is heavily diminished returns?  I thought it used to be like over 150....did this change?

[MrShine]

Don't nerf free wpf, just buff WM so it matters for melee more.

Well straight up buffing WM would inadvertently buff ranged classes, but if you mean do something to make them help melee exclusively then I agree.