cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: NikMac on April 09, 2012, 04:06:12 pm
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Good day!
Well, maybe, this suggestion was made earlier, but I will do this again (or just do). As we all know, last patch added into mod breath bar for underwater trips. And by my opinion, it's very nice, bring more realistic and tactical fun into game. But (if it's possible) will be even more great, if there was another bar - Stamina bar. Because it's a bit unrealistic, that warrior can swing heavy sword without tired. I suggest such mechanics for this bar: it will give player, let's say, 100 points to round (like 100%), and weight of weapon will decrease this number with each swing on weapon weight. For example, flamberger can swing only 25 times during round, and short sword - 100. After bar become empty, player will suffer huge wpf penalty (it will decrease wpf on 125). With new round number of points will reset and restore to 100 again.
Thank for your attention.
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No one will accept that mechanic for stamina, but I think stamina that recharges over time would be acceptable. Weapon weight could still factor into this, or something akin to weapon speed - weight because some weapons are weighty, but the way they are handled mitigates the burden.
I'd also suggest a decrease in backpedaling speed and an increase across the board in weapon speed. Fights will be faster and more furious.
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No one will accept that mechanic for stamina, but I think stamina that recharges over time would be acceptable. Weapon weight could still factor into this, or something akin to weapon speed - weight because some weapons are weighty, but the way they are handled mitigates the burden.
I'd also suggest a decrease in backpedaling speed and an increase across the board in weapon speed. Fights will be faster and more furious.
+1
The stam bar would have to recharge. Staying still for 30 seconds or something could recharge it.
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Then stamina system as was in Gothic 3 game - exacly what you talking about, btw.
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first i think u would want to make every ones stamina the same....
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I think stamina should run out constantly and it should have to be replaced by drinking ale. If you hit someone, a pint of ale pops out, which you can then pick up and drink.
Seriously, though, I also think a stamina system would help this game a lot, but unfortunately, most everyone is against it. The system wouldn't even need a bar or any other visual indicator. Just make animations get slower and slower with continuous spam. Block a few hits, and they get fast again. Simple.
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Yeah stamina is something that should have been included with native warband. If you could implement it with c-rpg I would be all for it, but since people have been playing Warband, and M&B the original and the mods for what, 4 or 5 years now? I doubt many people would support a stamina system...even though it makes perfect sense (and most melee games have it).
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The only thing I have against a stamina bar is that it will increase round lengths and I can hear the complaints already as people send me "I" chat messages about ppl standing still obvisouly delaying the round, when really they're just trying to refill their stamina bar.
But if it was to be implemented armor weight weapon weight and length should play an important role. And having higher athletics and weapon master will help your stamina bar recharge faster and deplete slower. Makes sense to me because weapon master allows you to wield weapons more effectivly spending less energy on swings and athletics means your fitness level and how high that is making you tire slower. This would mean heavy strength builds would suffer more and agility builds will have a higher appeal. And thinking about that wouldn't this affect cavalry the most?
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just make animations get slower and slower with continuous spam. Block a few hits, and they get fast again. Simple.
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Yeah Spaniard the key is that this would also need to apply to horses. They would have stamina too (which I think would be a good thing).
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Yeah it would have to slowly decrease depending on the horse and maybe the riders riding skill? Also bumps burn the bar faster that and how fast the horse is galloping, it can recharge while they trot
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Day of Defeat mod for halflife/source had best implementation of STA bar i've seen. Sprinting across alleys to avoid getting sniped or Machinegunned was the normal use. Occasionally used for bullrushing unaware or unready players to kill them in melee. Jumps also took about a 1/3 of your stamina.
IF STA is implemented, more weight should increase the rate at which its burned and slows its recovery.
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No
I don't want the game to be slower. This would only penalize large battles, and have very little effect in siege for the most part. For rageball, it would be miserable.
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Whats with archers then? Maybe doing same as they did in Skyrim. If you keep the Bow longer drawn you lose stamina... (no one holds it for long at all)
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I don't want the game to be slower. This would only penalize large battles, and have very little effect in siege for the most part. For rageball, it would be miserable.
STA bar which allows you to sprint makes the game go faster, not slower. Combat will happen sooner, it will be more deadly. Autoblock wizards will lose steam and be overwhelmed by peasant masses.
At the very least the combination of swings costing STA but having ability to sprint will cancel things out.
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I support a stamina system that recharges relatively quickly even...just runs out quickly if you're spamming - especially a heavy weapon.
weapon weight, overall weight, athletics, could all be a factor in this.
But this would not be a "per round" effect, it would be just be to deter from rediculous spamming in a short time span.
with a medium weight weapon you should have to spam pretty hard to empty it completely....the regen should be pretty quick on it. spamming a heavy weapon might empty it after a couple swings but in a couple seconds your bar would be full again.
str/agi/athletics and skill in said weapon could influence the stamina pool, regen rate, amount lost, etc
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Very bad idea, good thought though, but no.
Maybe in a game where its single player, or very very few players. But a lot of people are playing on maps. Like 80 people on battle maybe more and each number could be on different maps at different times.
So imagine you kill 2-3 people then ohh ohh you're out of stamina and you just sit there till you die because you can't move fast anymore or swing fast. And that will happen a lot since theres so many people comming at you, you'll have no time to recover. It's fine the way it is.
Was this a post to try and stop spammers because someone has problems with them? spamming is just swinging wildly, no real skill just rapid swings, which can be blocked if you practice blocking. Counter the spam and kill
A lot of people think feinting is spamming. Yah gotta learn the difference
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The only reason I'd say no is because it's never been in Mount & Blade.
But for people like Booty, you do realize that basically every single shooting or melee game nowadays has stamina? Even games going back to the 90's had stamina (like a lot of RPG games).
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The only reason I'd say no is because it's never been in Mount & Blade.
But for people like Booty, you do realize that basically every single shooting or melee game nowadays has stamina? Even games going back to the 90's had stamina (like a lot of RPG games).
CS. personal ladders, smoke bombs, weapons, that cannot be sneathed - all this items also never been in MnB before it appears in CPRG. If somethin was not before, it doesnt mean, that it must not be there in future.
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out with stamina suggestions, OUT
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no, just no!
Already suggested a hundred times. Why do you want this in anyway? Cant deal with spam?
This would bring in a new gameplay, things would need rebalancing, wev spent more then a year trying to balance this mod and it still not finished, lets not fuck it up and start all over ok?
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I can see both sides of this argument....
But I do think the "NO STAMINA" people are perhaps thinking that a stamina system would have to mean we all could swing 2 times per spawn or something...and although some "YES STAMINA" people may be thinking that is what is needed, it is NOT what I would suggest (nor what I think would be implemented) if a stamina system were put in.
If a stamina system were put in I think it would be something that most people would hardly notice - because it would (if balanced properly) really only affect people who spam heavy weapons repeatedly in a very short period of time. The regen on stamina should be high enough so that gameplay is not interupted - the GOAL is just to stop ridiculous spamming in any short period of time.
And - blocking could cost no stamina - meaning if you run out of stamina for 2 seconds (which is about all that would happen) then just block! Could actually increase skill level reliance on the servers.
But again - I do see both sides to this. I don't know if its IMPERATIVE, but I do feel like theres this ongoing effort to balance some of the weapons/armor and you can either continue that through weapon speeds/dmg etc....or implement stamina as a means to help balance weaponry by letting physics help you rather than more indirect mechanics.
But I don't think we'll see a stamina system for many reasons...
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implementing an ath system in an fps isnt hard, if you run you lose some, if you hold your breath you lose some.
but you think you could but this in a melee game, i know you can find this in age of chivalry but that game has basic combat system. but in crpg, with hold attacks, feintspamming, spamming, blocking, double blocking against hilstslash or fail footwork, chambering, backpeddaling, jumping, kicking? how the hell would you implement it for all of thesse moves? how will you implement it without ruining everything?
this idea is fail but makes many people fantasies
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i think the proposed idea would be stamina loss from swings executed....im not sure the other stuff would cost stamina...
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implementing an ath system in an fps isnt hard, if you run you lose some, if you hold your breath you lose some.
but you think you could but this in a melee game, i know you can find this in age of chivalry but that game has basic combat system. but in crpg, with hold attacks, feintspamming, spamming, blocking, double blocking against hilstslash or fail footwork, chambering, backpeddaling, jumping, kicking? how the hell would you implement it for all of thesse moves? how will you implement it without ruining everything?
this idea is fail but makes many people fantasies
you dont have to add the entire thing at once. You can start it in phases.
Phase 1: The Begining
Athletics x 10 = Stamina. Sprinting increases speed 15% at the cost of 10 stamina a second, at 0 weight. Jumping takes 1/3 of your total stamina. Make a formula for how weight interacts with stamina usage and recovery. Maybe even throw in some shit that middle level players 10-20 get bonus to stamina since they're technically YOUNGER. etc etc
Phase 2: Held attacks start to deplete stamina slowly after 1 second
Phase 3: Swings now take stamina. Formula for weight of weapon & your WPF determine stamina used. Perhaps missed swings use MORE stamina. Feints also use some % of a normal swings sta
Phase4: Parrys take stamina away from blocker based on dmg & weight of weapon attacking them. Shield blocks of melee weapons takes sta. Holding shield up slowly drains sta.
this is not fucking brain surgery. many other games have stamina/endurance systems.
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yes for that but that will ruin whole system what we have now
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yes for that but that will ruin whole system what we have now
actually it would improve the game immensely.
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I'm not even gonna say that the "this would ruin the game" people are WRONG because as I said i can see both sides of this....but someone needs to actually explain WHY and not just post "this would ruin the game"
btw good post digglez
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If a stamina system were put in I think it would be something that most people would hardly notice - because it would (if balanced properly) really only affect people who spam heavy weapons repeatedly in a very short period of time. The regen on stamina should be high enough so that gameplay is not interupted - the GOAL is just to stop ridiculous spamming in any short period of time.
There's already a way to stop somebody from spamming: kill them.
Block their first attack, and then hit them repeatedly until they die. If they block your attacks, then they aren't spamming.
Adding a stamina bar would make the game less skill based. A single player would be completely screwed versus multiple opponents (more so than is already the case). That would be bad.
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if you get spammed :
-you need to train
- and/or you have a faulty build
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Well, let me say this first : I don't care either way - I don't have a problem with spammers. Becs, sure :) But spammers, no.
I am not the one proposing a stamina system, im merely commenting on the idea that the original poster brought up so, "learn to play" comments are not useful.
** What I've been discussing is I don't think that a stamina system (although possibly NOT a good idea) would necessarily mean "DOOM TO CRPG" as some people are saying.
I find it an interesting idea - and from an impartial viewpoint I think it could be a good addition to the game - I welcome constructive arguments to the contrary (some of which have been made). But as I have mentioned, I can see both sides of it. If anything, I find value in it from a realism discussion standpoint.
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someone has already did that --> http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=216424.0 (http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php?topic=216424.0)
FEATURES:
-The player will get a value in fatigue based on their heatlh points and modified for agility skill.
-New stamina bar between health bar and horse bar.
-Now the player gets tired if he runs, dodges, jumps ...
-The fatigue is a graduate of the weight carried by the player above (for example, a Saxon warrior equipped with chain mail, shield, sword and helmet will tire faster than a nude Pictish raider)
-Each hit or block tires according to the weight of the weapon.
-The player will hear himself breathing when he's very tired, and will suffer exhaustion as his stamina bar reaches 0, being easy victim to his rivals.
-Saving stamina, decide when to hit or defend, when to charge or waiting for the enemy to save energy ... will be significant.
-The light troops take on new importance as a support to the heavy infantry, or even as a force of harassment.
-In our tests we found that the strategic possibilities multiply.
seems good to me , the problem could be the balance .
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Adding a stamina bar would make the game less skill based. A single player would be completely screwed versus multiple opponents (more so than is already the case). That would be bad.
You forget that they are limited by their stamina too so if that last player was agility based wth high WPF he may tire much slower than the others and have an advantage that he normally wouldn't have and be able to pull through. Agility players always have more of an option when it comes to engaging an opponent or not.
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You forget that they are limited by their stamina too so if that last player was agility based wth high WPF he may tire much slower than the others and have an advantage that he normally wouldn't have and be able to pull through. Agility players always have more of an option when it comes to engaging an opponent or not.
You're pitting a single stamina bar against the stamina bars of multiple opponents. Even if the player takes out 1-2 guys, he's likely to be exhausted afterwords (assuming they were cautious, and actually blocked a few attacks), leaving him screwed against the remaining enemies. The fight would be determined by an arbitrary gameplay mechanic, rather than by how well the players play.
If a player is alive, then he should be a threat. There should be no limit on the number of enemies a single player can effectively kill or wound.
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Also, a lot of ppls here accociate empty stamina bar with disability to attack. But I suggested another - read again. After stamina ends, U still can attack, but a bit slower, yes. Like if u have 1 - 25 wpf. Btw, even with 1 wpf u can be very effective against spammers/feinters/shielders/archers/etc. Use skill, not spam, keep right distance. Personally I dont have problems with spammers or any other type of players even with 1 wpf.
Also, I like idea that stamina will not affect blocks and have dependance of agi\WM.
P.S. -6 Votes for my topic: check, who voted "-". That's what I call spammers rage - even spammed with "-" XD
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still people are acting like their character once "out of stamina" would have to go run and hide for the rest of the round.
if it was badly made, then yes stamina system could result in that....
but in my mind, any balanced stamina system which is doing what its goal is would regen so fast that this scenario where you can't do anything would not happen unless you SPAMMMMMMED with a great axe for 8-12 seconds and even if you did that you would regen enough stam to swing again within a couple seconds.
and arbitrary mechanic? stamina? :?
on the contrary a stamina system would be less arbitrary than much of the balancing that is being attempted now.
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but in my mind, any balanced stamina system which is doing what its goal is would regen so fast that this scenario where you can't do anything would not happen unless you SPAMMMMMMED with a great axe for 8-12 seconds and even if you did that you would regen enough stam to swing again within a couple seconds.
If you can 'spam' with a great axe for 8-12 seconds, then either you are killing a lot of enemies, or you are in a duel with a decent opponent. Either way, you shouldn't be slowed down.
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Maybe if this adds gameplay elements instead of limiting what used to be unlimited resources. 'Ammo' on swinging doesn't seem too attractive to me.
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If weapon weight is factored in, it could make lighter weapons more interesting. If difficulty is factored in, it could make low tier weapons more interesting. If overall equipment weight is factored in, it could make light armors more interesting (and maybe heavy armors could be restored to pre-Paul's nerf situation as a consequence). It would stop 2h noobs from spamming other noobs and reaching top ranks in the score table. It would force hiltslash ninjas to block a return strike from time to time. It would stop great maul spam completely.
On the other hand, I don't see many negative effects. But I agree that it would be very hard to balance. But it might be worth it.
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you dont have to add the entire thing at once. You can start it in phases.
Phase 1: The Begining
Athletics x 10 = Stamina. Sprinting increases speed 15% at the cost of 10 stamina a second, at 0 weight. Jumping takes 1/3 of your total stamina. Make a formula for how weight interacts with stamina usage and recovery. Maybe even throw in some shit that middle level players 10-20 get bonus to stamina since they're technically YOUNGER. etc etc
Phase 2: Held attacks start to deplete stamina slowly after 1 second
Phase 3: Swings now take stamina. Formula for weight of weapon & your WPF determine stamina used. Perhaps missed swings use MORE stamina. Feints also use some % of a normal swings sta
Phase4: Parrys take stamina away from blocker based on dmg & weight of weapon attacking them. Shield blocks of melee weapons takes sta. Holding shield up slowly drains sta.
this is not fucking brain surgery. many other games have stamina/endurance systems.
It's been my opinion for a really long time that a stamina bar would clean up several issues with cRPG in one fell swoop (after issues have been worked out).
I think that's one thing that Age of Chivalry had absolutely right.
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stamina was not included into original warband thought it was disucced many times on beta forums. the main reson was that active/offensive players should have higher edge over turtles, backpedallers and defensive ones that will just wait until enemy looses stamina to do anything.
i think it was absolutely right decision.
no stamina at all is good.
(btw this idea comes up about 1 per month)
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Agree with Saul