Anyway, another solution could simply make melee weapons require PS
Those are still the hard choices you made to get there with that build. and you have obvious drawbacks. I have absolutely no problems with that.
the requirement for crossbows are pretty much balanced out by the super long reload times. There really isnt any such thing as crossbow spam. seriously. Its not that big of a problem. I would, however, like to see the wpf for crossbows have some serious effects on how they are used. right now they are too damn accurate with only 1 wpf.
It should be wildly inaccurate (no matter what crossbow you have) unless you have a significant amount of wpf.
Good suggestion. Crossbow's "learning curve" should be a lot more steep.
wall of text about not wanting to nerf range
The issue isn't about dedicated people who are range fighters. The issue is its TOO EASY to be a hybrid, and being a hybrid is too good not to do. On any map every round, i will get hit by some sort of projectile. its 100% guaranteed. we have archers/crossbowers. Each of them has 2 sets of bolts for enough arrows to not run out during the round AND some form of melee weapon often times a weapon that easily kills anyone.
then you have the people who focus on melee weapons, but they also put 1 point in PT and now they chuck axes and darts all over the place. Last night a guy hit me with 2 javs, and by the time i got near him he pulled out his triple loomed crush through weapon, i go to block(why bother right?) crush through and i'm dead. so i can either hang back and let him throw at me, or i can try and engage them up close which is when they pull out this huge unblockable weapon looneytoons style.
what needs to happen is people need to make a tough choice, do you want to be a glass cannon and do alot of damage, but are easy to kill? or do you want to be hard to kill, do alot of damage, but have minimal protection? Right now, we have a lot of people running around as tank-mages(UO reference) hard to kill, Tons of damage at range, Tons of damage up close.
If anything make weapons dependant on STR and WPF. For me PS limit would be completely pointless, I always have as much as my str affords, and I'm not sure who doesn't. It's one bloody point and that's certainly cheaper than taking 100 melee wpf instead of 50 for an archer. Geh, I swing a little slower but then I pick a weapon which is so fast I don't care, or is dead slow but 1 shots you from out of your range. Or 1 wpf throwing, easily possible.
But eh, an archer now relies on his melee weapon to get a positive k:d so don't forget to buff it along the way.
If weapons were restricted that way, only dedicated 2h could use greatsword, hybrids could use bastards and axes and maces, and no wpf can use clubs and axes. Same for 1h/pole. It also means people can't be (sucky or mediocre) warbow archer when they sit in the village and pure 2h when not.
What's wrong is that even with 1wpf, crossbows and throwing weapon reticule is too damn small. The reticule should be huge like a woman's vagina when giving birth until the wpf is about 100-120.
Your effectiveness with 1wpf at crossbow is about as effective as any other melee weapon with 1 wpf and powerstrike. Also, if you miss with a crossbow of ANY kind at 1 wpf, goodluck getting a second shot in before enemies or other ACTUAL crossbowmen / archers pick you to pieces. (Assuming melee guys don't get to you first,as you're sure not going to be at any serious range from a melee fight with 1 wpf at crossbow if you want to even hope for a kill.) If it weren't for the fact that crossbows have an ungodly reload time for non dedicated users, you'd have a case.
I have no more problems to play with those ranged on siege.
Its ok there. But on battle its fucked up. Waiting 3 minutes because someone threw a weapon somewhere and had luck is so disturbing.
But once you have a team of shielders and other crossbowmen that support you the reload time doesn't matter. That's why alot of melee picks up a crossbow too.
The fact that an archer can pull out a big-f-sword and proceed to whoops ass is not a big problem (from my view as an infantry). I WANT them to be able to fight instead of facing only runners. Bows in general are not problematic anymore - it is all about thrown and xbows.
The other option is to add penalties to xbows that will really hurt an infantry - at least psychologically. It is possible (see Brytenwalda mod) to have skill penalties attached to equipment. An xbow is a cumbersome thing to carry on your back while swordplaying. I bet that if it carried even -1 penalty to PS, many will skip it. I would put this at -2 PS. Make sure to advertise this penalty well for the full psychological effect. The point being: a dedicated xbowman will be much less effected by this: he is dedicated to shooting the bow from distance, not carrying it for the highland charge (one shot, then charge). Xbow user than wishes to go into full melee can "g" drop the xbow and the penalty goes away (in Brytenwalda). I will not mind "two slot fillers" starting the frame with the xbow, then dropping it and going full melee - they will most likely not go back to pick it up and the shoot-melee-shoot-melee will go away.
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) Make polearms and 2 handed weapons use two slots. This way we won't see archers with weapons of death. Use a 1h weapon no shield for sidearm. Twohanders have to choose shield or shooty. etc.
forcing an archer to put points into PS takes points away that they would otherwise convert into attributes, and still be able to take a mele weapon ANYWAY
with your way, I would just convert those six points into agi and put the wpf into 2H. This allows for much more hybridized builds.
MY way would force them to actually choose which is more important. because they would have LESS wpf to spend overall, and would still have to put points in PS to pick a better mele weapon. Pure archers would have to use a lower tiered mele weapon to sacrifice for that archery wpf, and hybrids sacrifice archery wpf to put points into PS instead of the att conversion.
Its called "balance"
Just modifying the wpf requirements would be simple to bypass by just stacking agi with a 18/21 or 15/24 build and converting 8 pts. this would allow you to use pretty much every weapon in the game with almost maximum efficiency. This is the problem that was being addressed in the OP.
I support this (I suggested this idea once, in another thread, no clue where). This would also prevent melee fighters from carrying a 2h sword (for duel) plus a pike (for horses) plus a 2h axe (for shields) plus throwing weapons, like I actually do.
Can you detail that build you are talking about? Because I'm simply not seeing it.
I can tell you my build from last gen (the calc is a little wrong)
Having significant requirements would be useful like making longbow stronger but require 8 powerdraw or black armor requiring 27 strength or usign a giant flamberge like a twig requires 7 or 8 powerstrike. Forcing real tradeoffs and choices would be a step in the right direction - you would probably not see as many fast shooting khergit bow users swinging elegant poleaxes up close or war spear\iron staff\knobbed mace\polearm stun spammers suddenly pulling out a siege xbow.
I am OK with people having all those weapons though, because the upkeep of that means they have terrible armor.
?
9001
2458
5030
1589
=
18078
6458
8922
=
15380
by that definition, 1h + shield is forced to run in crap armor.
True, I was thinking of the more expensive weapons, but note that for 15K the 1Her with shield can get a very good 1Her weapon and a very good shield for that price, compared to the four weapons that were listed.
I think I should re-word my point (Thank you for pointing out that those were cheap weapons, +1 point): For the gold invested, versatility will diminish the amount of armor or effectiveness-at-one-moment that a dedicated will have.
I'm a sword and board player my normal gear runs right around 30k and i make massive amounts of money.
True, I was thinking of the more expensive weapons, but note that for 15K the 1Her with shield can get a very good 1Her weapon and a very good shield for that price, compared to the four weapons that were listed.
I think I should re-word my point (Thank you for pointing out that those were cheap weapons, +1 point): For the gold invested, versatility will diminish the amount of armor or effectiveness-at-one-moment that a dedicated will have.
Mind posting your gear? I am rather curious, though running light makes sense if you are an agil build.
And your current build is already the tradeoff I was talking about.. There are a lot of 8-10 PD users out ther that can ALSO use a flamberge or poleaxe simply because of all of the str required for the higher PD. THOSE types of pure builds shouldnt be also using the high end mele weapons. Thats the point of the OP. YOUR build is actually pretty balanced, and you are not as effective an archer as someone with more wpf and pd in archery. thats the point.