cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Mogu on March 26, 2012, 07:42:15 pm

Title: Archer Tips?
Post by: Mogu on March 26, 2012, 07:42:15 pm
So, I'd like to know if some of the more experienced archers could offer some help to a newbie?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 26, 2012, 07:45:04 pm
Don't be one.

Lots of stigma.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: MrShine on March 26, 2012, 08:17:27 pm
Don't be one.

Lots of stigma.
he just mad.

(Butts he's also correct - people hate getting killed by archers, therefore people hate archers.  If this doesn't dissuade you, read on!)



try a skip the fun archer that boosts you to level 30.  Leveling an archer is very painful to do especially as a new player.  Without the power draw you'll hurt nothing, and without the athletics you'll be walking meat. 

Getting a good build is important. A 18-21 build is a good one, or maybe 18-24.  Maybe a 21-18 build but personally I think 6 PD is enough.

Otherwise practice from there!  Leading people & all that is a feeling.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Arrowblood on March 26, 2012, 08:22:02 pm
Its all about sidesteps while duelling against other ranged.
And dont try to be a lone legolas, always stay close to your team.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9160.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9160.0.html)
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Boerenlater on March 26, 2012, 08:25:41 pm
Shoot 'em in the face.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Mogu on March 26, 2012, 08:28:46 pm
I'll refrain from skipping the fun. I want to loom a longbow.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: MrShine on March 26, 2012, 09:07:11 pm
I'll refrain from skipping the fun. I want to loom a longbow.

I don't mean making your main character a STF character, I mean make a new character and skip the fun to see what it's like to be a level 30 archer.

You might love it, in which case go for it on your main.
You might hate it, in which case you'll thank me for saving you the trouble.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Ylca on March 27, 2012, 03:20:21 am
For the love of god remember that you're an archer not melee. Yes some people at high level have builds that allow them to have power strike- chances are you are not there yet and will probably take the 18/21 amazing standard build that gives enough speed to run circles around most melee. Use that 7 athletics to turn, run, then shoot instead of being like many archers who decide they are now peasant 1hers the first time someone with a giant sword and a ton of armor comes barreling towards them.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2012, 04:30:15 am
So, I'd like to know if some of the more experienced archers could offer some help to a newbie?

Tip #1 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #2 - When leveling, build evenly and use each bow in turn. Once you have reached the max in one skill for your build, then and only then start building unevenly eg 3/3, 6/6, 9/9,... 18/18, 21/18
Tip #3 - Don't go above PD 7.
Tip #4 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #5 - For hard hitting go with Rus Bow 21 str/18 Agi - PD 7 - WM 6 - 156 WPF
Tip #6 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #7 - For fast and accurate take a Horn Bow with PD 5 and WM  9 - 180 WPF
Tip #8 - Put any extra skills into IF - Don't bother with Athletics
Tip #9 - Don't loom a longbow
Tip #10 - If you prefer to miss your shots, waste your points on skills that have been nerfed to the dust, be frustrated while leveling and want an heirloom that you will want to break and can't sell, ignore the tips above.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Mogu on March 27, 2012, 05:30:11 am
Tip #1 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #2 - When leveling, build evenly and use each bow in turn. Once you have reached the max in one skill for your build, then and only then start building unevenly eg 3/3, 6/6, 9/9,... 18/18, 21/18
Tip #3 - Don't go above PD 7.
Tip #4 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #5 - For hard hitting go with Rus Bow 21 str/18 Agi - PD 7 - WM 6 - 156 WPF
Tip #6 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #7 - For fast and accurate take a Horn Bow with PD 5 and WM  9 - 180 WPF
Tip #8 - Put any extra skills into IF - Don't bother with Athletics
Tip #9 - Don't loom a longbow
Tip #10 - If you prefer to miss your shots, waste your points on skills that have been nerfed to the dust, be frustrated while leveling and want an heirloom that you will want to break and can't sell, ignore the tips above.

So I think I'm gonna loom a longbow. *Badum-tiss*
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Ylca on March 27, 2012, 05:49:53 am
Tip #1 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #2 - When leveling, build evenly and use each bow in turn. Once you have reached the max in one skill for your build, then and only then start building unevenly eg 3/3, 6/6, 9/9,... 18/18, 21/18
Tip #3 - Don't go above PD 7.
Tip #4 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #5 - For hard hitting go with Rus Bow 21 str/18 Agi - PD 7 - WM 6 - 156 WPF
Tip #6 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #7 - For fast and accurate take a Horn Bow with PD 5 and WM  9 - 180 WPF
Tip #8 - Put any extra skills into IF - Don't bother with Athletics
Tip #9 - Don't loom a longbow
Tip #10 - If you prefer to miss your shots, waste your points on skills that have been nerfed to the dust, be frustrated while leveling and want an heirloom that you will want to break and can't sell, ignore the tips above.

Strongly disagree with 8.

7 athletics makes you swift enough to dodge horses and remove yourself from melee. That IF isn't going to help much as archers wear very light armor. At best it means you might get to live long enough to see a second swing instead of just the one. Better to be fast enough not to get hit at all.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2012, 06:03:38 am
Athletics was nerfed into dust and I dodge horses just fine with 0. Played properly, it won't be swings you need to be concerned about surviving. It is other ranged. That IF will allow you to survive another hit and win the ranged fight against other Archers, Xbows, HA's and HX's and some throwers.

Don't be a runner  :idea:
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 07:09:18 am
if you want to be a good archers practice hold shots, u will see your crosshair widen , but when u practice abit you will realise there is a second sweetspot in the hold,, when on release the arrow will still go straight!!! also hold attacks make for more damage!!! up to 50% more!!  practice medium to short ranged shooting alot this is where you do sick ammounts of damage, long ranged shots tend not to do that much damage. use terrain to your advantage, slopes rooftops whatever, hight gives u a damage bonus to, also forcing people to move up to you is a + since theyr movment is slowed comming uphill/ladder, making them even eazier to hit. practice shotgunning shielders, this is holding your atack and wating fo rthem to get close and release shield cover , or move arround them and release in movement trying to shoot in there side ( this is for more advanced players) use your pan arround button alot : default is ' ~ button ' but change it to an eazier to acces button like and extra mouse button. (shit its late alot of use of the word button)  stick near other archers, you will realise you are the most powerfull class in this game once u start playing together with other archers, headshot nearly oneshot enything, move after each shot. once again get it into your system to pan arround alot to know whats happening arround you!! if you do this, you will lyao while cav or enyone else at that struggels to catch you, yes if you see cav comming they are very eazy to dodge, unarmored horses take about 3 arrows at 6 pd. learn to block with a 0 slot weap like a sycle it will save you alot if you get good at it, since people will desperatly try to go for you the eazy pray, while your teamm8ts can just kill them in there backs. also you can shoot while moving at point blank and hit alot of the times , very good to use while dodging cav.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 59

    Converted: 8
    Ironflesh: 3
    Power Strike: 0
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 7
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 6
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

    One Handed: 1
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 164
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1

tatar/horn or rusbow, with tatar or bodkin arrows

sorry for the messy post, but follow these guidelines and you will become legend, and also laugh at all the other players

once again having tunnel vision will be cause of nearly all your deaths!! BE AWARE OF WHATS GOING ON ARROUND U!!
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: XyNox on March 27, 2012, 07:11:18 am
Tip #1 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #2 - When leveling, build evenly and use each bow in turn. Once you have reached the max in one skill for your build, then and only then start building unevenly eg 3/3, 6/6, 9/9,... 18/18, 21/18
Tip #3 - Don't go above PD 7.
Tip #4 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #5 - For hard hitting go with Rus Bow 21 str/18 Agi - PD 7 - WM 6 - 156 WPF
Tip #6 - Don't loom a longbow.
Tip #7 - For fast and accurate take a Horn Bow with PD 5 and WM  9 - 180 WPF
Tip #8 - Put any extra skills into IF - Don't bother with Athletics
Tip #9 - Don't loom a longbow
Tip #10 - If you prefer to miss your shots, waste your points on skills that have been nerfed to the dust, be frustrated while leveling and want an heirloom that you will want to break and can't sell, ignore the tips above.

My last build was 8 PD, i use a +2 loomed longbow and I had 3 ath :D
Strongly disagree with #8 too. Like Ylca said dodging horses, get out of thight situations. 8 PD gives very comfortable missile speed although its a bit inaccurate with a longbow. I can imagine it works well with a loomed rus.

Most important rule for archers imo is to do 360° checks. Constantly be aware of your sourroundings as cav, inf, other ragend will constantly try to hunt you down first as you are a one hit kill in most situations.

Also when you see friendly inf fighting, dont shoot into their fight if you are not sure you wont hit your teammate. If you do theyll cry and blame you for dying, regardless they would have gotten owned anyway. Just wait for them to die so you can get a clean shot.

Another thing you have to know before becoming an archer:
Shielders have godmode like in native. When a shielder with an average sized shield is facing you there is no way to harm him. If you are the last person alive and your enemy is a shielder you might just go afk as you wont be able to kill him anyway. Additionally as you are an archer you will have no melee capabillities. A lvl 2 peasant probably hits harder and faster than you, meaning your weapon will just glance on everything made of leather and up.

Appart from that of course headshot headshots headshots.

If you still want to go the ways of the ranged - welcome archer brother.

P.S. The most important rule of course is not to believe anything rufio tells you about archery as he is the ranged hater #1  :)
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Niemand on March 27, 2012, 07:17:58 am
Strongly disagree with 8.
7 athletics makes you swift enough to dodge horses and remove yourself from melee.
Dude. You kidding me? You got no 7 points for Athletics left when youre an Archer.

I am going with 15/27. 5PD 9WM. 180Archery.
Not hitting shit but that is my personal skill that sucks once again.

I got 3 spare-points left at Level 30 and put them on Athletics. But I dont really need athletics, because I am only wearing a woolen cap, green tunic and Khergit Leather Boots. I am faster than most of the others.

What will be important to you is: Dont use heavyish armour. Dont go over Leather. Your damage and accuracy will drop.

Do not use Bodkin-Arrows. They cost heaps in repair and you dont face heavy armoury that much. So go with Tartar-Arrows.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 07:19:41 am
regardless they would have gotten owned anyway.

P.S. The most important rule is of course not to believe anything rufio tells you about archery as he is the ranged hater #1  :)

its a shame most archers think like that and shoot into melee enyways, somany times archer tells me i would have been owned enyways when i was fighting 3 man ,,, the tenacity!!!

and second if you would have read my post maybe you might have learned a little to, peasant :3 dont give the impression to this new player that he is being trolled, since all that i put down is relevent info that will help him. and yes you want to play in light gear and specially head needs to be light gear, heavy headgear makes u suffer most.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: XyNox on March 27, 2012, 04:02:01 pm
its a shame most archers think like that and shoot into melee enyways, somany times archer tells me i would have been owned enyways when i was fighting 3 man ,,, the tenacity!!!

and second if you would have read my post maybe you might have learned a little to, peasant :3 dont give the impression to this new player that he is being trolled, since all that i put down is relevent info that will help him. and yes you want to play in light gear and specially head needs to be light gear, heavy headgear makes u suffer most.

I didnt mean to say that as an archer you should just fire into melee fights as like your, and only your friendly infantry will mess up. I mentioned the opposite. But IF your melee mate is a total noob, just took the 5. hit in a row without blocking a single one before, even then he would blame you for losing the fight if he catches a friendly arrow.

And dont get me wrong rufio. The are quite some viable tips in your wall of text, but many are not practicable as they are very skill-, equipment-, and luck dependent. Trying some of these things in the first or second pure archer generation will get you killed 99% of the time.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Niemand on March 27, 2012, 04:29:07 pm
Its easy. Just dont shoot into meelee-fights. Archers know that rule but while playing you easily forget it.

And: IMPORTANT!

If you play Defense on SIege... and your flag goes down... DONT THE FUCK SHOOT AT THE ENEMY! run in there, run around, they will hit each other and you will most likely die. BUT! you kept the flag up for at least a half a second. this half second is able to save the round and brings you: One Multiplier.

I could teamkill all those stupid archermorons that stand up on the wall, shooting down to the flag everytime. How moronic can humen possibly be?

So guys: Go for the flag to save it. Your KD counts shit if you lose your multiplier or stay on X1 for another round.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2012, 04:57:33 pm
My last build was 8 PD, i use a +2 loomed longbow and I had 3 ath :D
Strongly disagree with #8 too. Like Ylca said dodging horses, get out of thight situations. 8 PD gives very comfortable missile speed although its a bit inaccurate with a longbow. I can imagine it works well with a loomed rus.


Also when you see friendly inf fighting, dont shoot into their fight if you are not sure you wont hit your teammate. If you do theyll cry and blame you for dying, regardless they would have gotten owned anyway. Just wait for them to die so you can get a clean shot.

I like the debate, it comes down to playstyle preference. I used to be a heavy athletics user as well. But I found that 75% of the time, I would have lived longer with the extra IF and Athletics didn't save me. Also, I have a very fast build, so I don't have to run fast when I can constantly stun the melee trying to catch me. 0 Athletics > stunned 6 athletics meleer. You guys that use a slower bow, or not enough WPF with the Horn or Rus won't have as much time, nor the accuracy to perhaps to use that style.
Again, 0 athletics is more than adequate for dodging horses, but then again, I've spent my career walking out into the middle of an open field and challenging cavalry to come and get me, so I probably have as much or more experience in getting out of their way than anyone.
On the PD/WM power vs accuracy debate, I shoot at range. When I talk about being accurate, I mean at the 90%-max range of the bow, ie around where the arrow drops. I'm not talking about short or even mid-range where most Rus and even Horn bow users shoot. I mean being able to shoot that horse all the way across the map while it is running 2-3 times in a row. And when I say accurate, I mean that the reticule randomness is gone, (or pinpoint as some might say). That's my idea of accurate, and I mean doing it on purpose. If you go to 8 PD, even with the Tatar Bow, you introduce that extra random element of chance in those shots because it will vary a bit inside the reticule. It is about personal taste. Some people can't stand hitting someone without doing 50% of their health. Me, I don't mind putting 5 arrows into someone because I enjoy chain stunning them and if one of my teammates run up during that time and get the kill on the stunned enemy, I still win. I don't care about K/D, just multiplier. (But I have lobbied for damage added to the scoreboard. I really want to see if I do up to 25-35% more Damage Over Time than any of the 8 or 9 PD Rus users like I think that I do)
When I spot another archer at range and start shooting them, 95% of them give up and find somewhere to hide out of my LOS. (Except for Ploop or WarKittenz :oops: ) That's because they usually PD stack and can't compete at range.

On firing into melee:

My motto is "Always take the shot, always."

But let's talk about what that means. Your job in that situation isn't to get the kill. It is to get the enemy killed. Your job in that situation is the same as a sheep dog. Herd the enemy. Keep them from controlling the skirmish by not allowing them to go where they want. When the melee is close enough to  spin around each other, keep your shots just behind the enemy. If they back up, they will back into your arrows. If they spin and switch places, you won't hit your teammate and he won't move far enough to get into your "herding" arrows. When they get seperation, then hit them for the stun (or kill). Backpedalers will die quickly. Shielders facing your teammate will get stunned and become open to a hit from your melee. If they face you, same thing. Always try to keep the 90 degree angle.
If your teamates back is to you, fire a couple arrows wide so he knows you are there helping. If they don't adjust to take advantage of having an archer helping them, just disengage and get as much distance as you can so that when your teammate dies from being stupid, you will have enough range to kill the enemy before he can close the distance.
As you get better, the amount of leeway you need will become less. Until then, give your teammate a good cushion of space. But still take the shot. Always  :P
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Ylca on March 27, 2012, 05:01:15 pm
Dude. You kidding me? You got no 7 points for Athletics left when youre an Archer.

I am going with 15/27. 5PD 9WM. 180Archery.
Not hitting shit but that is my personal skill that sucks once again.

I got 3 spare-points left at Level 30 and put them on Athletics. But I dont really need athletics, because I am only wearing a woolen cap, green tunic and Khergit Leather Boots. I am faster than most of the others.

What will be important to you is: Dont use heavyish armour. Dont go over Leather. Your damage and accuracy will drop.

Do not use Bodkin-Arrows. They cost heaps in repair and you dont face heavy armoury that much. So go with Tartar-Arrows.
    Strength: 18
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 59

    Converted: 8
    Ironflesh: 3
    Athletics: 7
    Power Draw: 6
    Weapon Master: 7

    Archery: 164


That's where the 7 ath comes in. Whatever people say about whether ath is lower than before, as an archer with this build you are still fast enough to backpedal faster than many heavier armor can run forward, beyond that when you turn and run you can outpace long enough to find some melee support or get another shot off. I know it's fun to hate on high agi builds because a select few run as the last archer left then never shoot, but the build has amazing practical applications especially for a new player to the game.

As for not buying bodkins, if you can't afford bodkins you can't afford to be an archer as bodkins give all bows piercing damage. Cut arrows end with you watching any medium tier or above armor laughing off your pitiful shots as they run you down. Even with bodkins it takes 3 to 4 shots to kill the average target which means that without you can shoot all day to next to no effect. I'm sure some higher skill players pull it off with headshots constantly, but this is advice for a new player. Keep in mind that on week 1 not everyone can take 0 PS then out melee opponents in time for their next shot. Best to start out with enough speed to focus on one thing at a time. Focus on ranged, then when you're a little better you can cut out ath if you want.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2012, 05:06:49 pm
As for not buying bodkins, if you can't afford bodkins you can't afford to be an archer as bodkins give all bows piercing damage. Cut arrows end with you watching any medium tier or above armor laughing off your pitiful shots as they run you down. Even with bodkins it takes 3 to 4 shots to kill the average target which means that without you can shoot all day to next to no effect. I'm sure some higher skill players pull it off with headshots constantly, but this is advice for a new player. Keep in mind that on week 1 not everyone can take 0 PS then out melee opponents in time for their next shot. Best to start out with enough speed to focus on one thing at a time. Focus on ranged, then when you're a little better you can cut out ath if you want.

Yep. Keep 1 stack of Bodkins in slot #1 and aim for armored targets at the beginning of the rounds (or any cavalry and especially HA/HX regardless of what they wear). Then carry a stack of normal arrows in slot #2. By time your bodkins are gone, people are running around injured, you will have a good number of arrows left to shoot, and the couple extra points of cut damage from the Tatars don't balance vs the cost as stack #2.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 05:41:58 pm
And dont get me wrong rufio. The are quite some viable tips in your wall of text, but many are not practicable as they are very skill-, equipment-, and luck dependent. Trying some of these things in the first or second pure archer generation will get you killed 99% of the time.

what i posted is how i play as archer, and ive played 1.5 gen , although im already an experienced crpg player, i ripped shit up , with normal gear and tatar bow + tatar arrows, no heirlooms, so all depends on how fast this guy learns, and how  many experience he brings with him from native/ other games.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Niemand on March 27, 2012, 05:46:18 pm
Its not the problem of the cost. I could afford them. But I do not want to lose 1k when I get only 500 coins because my team is not able to win. (My lack of skill will be a part of that, too, I admit that).

But I prefer having 2 (or three) stacks of Tatar Arrows than having one Stack of Bodkin and one Stack of normal arrows. The Bodkins simply didnt satisfy me. I use them for DTV when the Weaboos come and for the Nordstuff after that.
Or when I want to piss off Chamion or Kliff. :D

On firing into melee:

My motto is "Always take the shot, always."

But let's talk about what that means. Your job in that situation isn't to get the kill. It is to get the enemy killed. Your job in that situation is the same as a sheep dog. Herd the enemy. Keep them from controlling the skirmish by not allowing them to go where they want. When the melee is close enough to  spin around each other, keep your shots just behind the enemy. If they back up, they will back into your arrows. If they spin and switch places, you won't hit your teammate and he won't move far enough to get into your "herding" arrows. When they get seperation, then hit them for the stun (or kill). Backpedalers will die quickly. Shielders facing your teammate will get stunned and become open to a hit from your melee. If they face you, same thing. Always try to keep the 90 degree angle.
If your teamates back is to you, fire a couple arrows wide so he knows you are there helping. If they don't adjust to take advantage of having an archer helping them, just disengage and get as much distance as you can so that when your teammate dies from being stupid, you will have enough range to kill the enemy before he can close the distance.
As you get better, the amount of leeway you need will become less. Until then, give your teammate a good cushion of space. But still take the shot. Always  :P
Hmm... thats some stuff I srsly should remember. I will try that this evening. Thanks for the advise.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 27, 2012, 06:33:00 pm
Archer tips? Experiment wildly and see what build suits you the most. Don't use a build if the playstyle is not natural to you.

When I get home I'll post a bunch of builds and describe what playstyle each requires.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Teeth on March 27, 2012, 07:27:32 pm
Use that 7 athletics to turn, run, then shoot instead of being like many archers who decide they are now peasant 1hers the first time someone with a giant sword and a ton of armor comes barreling towards them.
What he's trying to say is that you should be lame and gay instead of manly.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Lichen on March 27, 2012, 07:34:22 pm
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 15
    Agility: 24
    Hit points: 60

    Skills to attributes: 8

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 5
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 0
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 5
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 8

    One Handed: 91
    Two Handed: 1
    Polearm: 1
    Archery: 160
    Crossbow: 1
    Throwing: 1
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Dezilagel on March 27, 2012, 07:52:54 pm
Sigh.

Reasons NOT to be a "pure" archer:

1. Your teammates will thank you.

If you can melee you will be able to dispose off enemies much faster. Instead of being some annoying runner yelling "support me!!!111" you can take care of the problem yourself and quickly be back in the action.  If you have a melee weapon you also have the option of supporting your friends in melee instead of shooting, which is a godsend for the melee players since friendly arrows in the back hurt (you don't expect them, so the stun gets you killed very often).

2. The guys on the other team will thank you.

Face it, facing (not intended) a runner is boring. You run after some dude for a minute with really no other option since if you turn around he'll shoot you. Killing them is a matter of no skill but more luck/athletics as well.

3. Meleeing as an archer is OP as fuck.

Since you really have no interest in meleeing as an archer (if someone disengages you pull out your bow, which is exactly what you want) as you can constantly backpeddle and still be at full offensive effectiveness. This fucks up almost all offensive melee strategy, makes the melee player very easy to block and limits his options tremendously.

4. You'll gain skilzz.

If you spend your entire time shooting then you're never going to hone your melee skills (obv) and thus if you should decide to play another type of char you will most likely suck. Even really old players (Arrowblood...) suffer from this.


In short:

Don't be an idiot; don't go "pure" archer.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Cup1d on March 27, 2012, 08:08:44 pm
Little advice - play some generations as polearmer, or 2H, or onehander without a shield but with 1slot weapon only. Spend some time on hunting for archers\xbowers. Do not be simpleminded, think what you are doing and how they can oppose you. Think what you'll do next time, when you'll have ranged weapon. Loom light armor\arrows. It's hard to be an archer without loomed stuff - because 50% of your enemy already have loomed armors.

With this little basic training you'll understand how battle mechanics works. It's impossible to be a good archer and do not understand how battle around you going. Only if you are in right place, in right time you can affect a battle flow. Otherwise you'll be just another hatred pewpew with 0.22 k\d.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 09:06:33 pm
only seeing your name popup in here gives me the shivers cupid, i fear thine headshots, and i dream of strangeling you every once in a while
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 27, 2012, 10:33:12 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login


If you want an archer/melee hybrid, here is an ancient guide that mostly still holds true. Some obvious and not-so-obvious things have changed (there is no Strong bow, its now called the Horn bow) and you can go with PD 5 with the Horn bow and not be considered an "extreme" build anymore. In fact it is pretty standard nowadays. But you will need PD 6 in order to access all the bows still.
Also, you can see that even a year ago I decided that 3 athletics was enough, though used to go double that or beyond. Now, with the additional nerfs, 0 athletics is just fine when played properly. Its a matter of preference and playstyle. Athletics still has some usefulness, but don't pay attention when someone says you "must" have it or that it is better. Figure out what works best for how you play.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,6333.0.html (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,6333.0.html)

But don't listen to pumpkin head concerning pure archers. They are more viable today than they ever were in the history of c-RPG.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Dezilagel on March 27, 2012, 10:55:44 pm
I'm not talking about a full hybrid - when I did a STF archer 0 wpf and 4 PS worked fine for melee.

And yes, "pure" archers are viable, it's disgusting. but I firmly believe that an archer who doesn't restrict himself to pure running bundle of sticksry is more useful than one who does. Assuming he's not horrible in melee ofc.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on March 27, 2012, 11:35:35 pm
this is a new player dezi, telling him to go gimped hybrid and switch to melee when needed is putting a deathscentence on him, he wont experience eny fun from it, better indeed for him to go pure archer, and later if he keeps playing he can always be tempted to try out melee chars.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Dezilagel on March 27, 2012, 11:46:39 pm
Well then, in that case my advice is simple:

Don't go archer.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on March 28, 2012, 02:07:48 am
I'm not talking about a full hybrid - when I did a STF archer 0 wpf and 4 PS worked fine for melee.

And yes, "pure" archers are viable, it's disgusting. but I firmly believe that an archer who doesn't restrict himself to pure running bundle of sticksry is more useful than one who does. Assuming he's not horrible in melee ofc.

Right. I recommend 0 athletics for the "pure running bundle of sticksry".  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Mallets on March 28, 2012, 06:52:00 am
I have two Archery question, so I just thought I'd ask them here.

#1 - About half the Archers I see are wearing Padded Leather for armor... why is that?

#2 - I see a decent amount of archers, in very light-cloth armor... yet they are wearing mail mittens.  I know the penalty for wearing gloves is steeper.  So why are they wearing any gloves at all, much less mail mittens?  Are they just new players, or am I missing something?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Cup1d on March 28, 2012, 11:52:02 am
Quote
#1 - About half the Archers I see are wearing Padded Leather for armor... why is that?

Pure coincidence. Because this armor isn't better for archer than any armor between Padded Armor and Lamellar Vests. (dont mind fancy stuff like bride dress ofcourse).

Quote
#2 - I see a decent amount of archers, in very light-cloth armor... yet they are wearing mail mittens.  I know the penalty for wearing gloves is steeper.  So why are they wearing any gloves at all, much less mail mittens?  Are they just new players, or am I missing something?

It's just min-maxing. Since penalty for hand armor = effective weight of hand armor *2, with mail mittens you can receive more defence for less penalty than with just heavier armor. Especially with loomed mail mittens.
Main point for armor efficiency - you must have enough armor to survive arbalest bolt but still have minimum penalty for your WPF. So, you need at least 38-42 body armor with minimum possible weight.
Well, some people also use armors to blend at some maps.

Example
Byrnie  - body armor 36, weight: 8.6
Mail gauntlets - bosy armor 5, weight: 0,5*2=1
Overall armor and weight - 41 and 9,6

Overall armor rating for armor with weight 9,6 = 37
Yes, combo armor+mittens cost little more, but this is not a big money.

See?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: SockpuppetSamurai on April 02, 2012, 07:03:52 pm
Lots of good tips in this thread so I figured I might as well throw my questions in here. I have read the other threads and guides but I am still in the dark a bit with the number crunching.
Is there a reason the Yumi bow is seldom used? I started toying with an archer and It seems to me that the Yumi performs better than the Horn bow. Is there a big difference between 150 and 165 WPF? If I go with 150 I can put 90 into one-handed and then 3 into PS instead of IF. I figure 6 extra hp really isn't going to make too much of a difference. At what point does armor begin to affect accuracy? I like the look and protection of Lamellar but it does have a noticeable affect on movement speed.

Edit: According to the cRPG Calculator the Lamellar armor does incur a 5-6 WPF point penalty in addition to slower movement. In order to keep  a neutral modifier my body armor would have to be 6kg or lighter. Is armor this light worth wearing?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: rufio on April 02, 2012, 07:34:15 pm
yes it is, and i dont know why yumi isnt being used that much, i guess people want or good damage or from hornbow down good speed
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Cup1d on April 02, 2012, 07:56:06 pm
Yes, Yumi is interesting bow, it has best accuracy (in comparison with hornbow\warbow\longbow) and good weapon speed. But people prefer higher projectile speed. In archer duel projectile speed is more important than +2 to damage. If enemy team do not have many archers\xbowmans you can use Yumi against infantry and expect good results.

150 wpf is good for 5 Powerdraw. For 6 Powerdraw you need 160+ wpf in archery. You still can use 6PD Longbow\Rusbow with 150 wpf only - but shooting became much more comfortable with 160+ wpf.

Since you can have 30-40 body armor with 6kg weight limit - it's your life saver. Without armor you'll die from 1-2 arrows or one hit of ugly peasant with military scythe. Or two friendly bumps from teammate's coursers.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: bigsean on April 02, 2012, 08:57:48 pm
The Yumi just seems like a bad choice from the shop. People like to use the horn bow for those fast, accurate draws and the rus bow for slower, but higher damage shots. The yumi, being the middle bow in terms of draw speed, seems like it would be a great middle bow to touch on both sides but there is one glaring flaw; the yumi only has 35 missile speed. In comparison with the horn bow's 39, and the rus bow's 39, the yumi is very low. Even the most basic bow has 37. Don't know how much this matters but I can certainly "feel" a difference.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on April 02, 2012, 09:23:00 pm
Yep, the Yumi has one main advantage/disadvantage and that is the missile speed. Because of how damage is calculated, it will be less damaging than any other bow in 75% of situations (maybe 90%).
In the other 10-25% of the time, it will be MORE damaging because of the speed bonus it gains from being slower. Here's why:

Speed bonus is a % damage increase based upon the difference between the starting speed, and the relative speed upon impact.

What in the hell does that mean?

Yumi starts with 35 speed.
Horn starts with 39 speed.

But lets look at speed bonuses.

They both shoot at a horse charging straight towards them. Because of the horses speed, the final missile impact speed is, lets say 42.

Yumi gets a bonus of 42/35 or 120%.
Horn gets a bonus of 42/39 or 108%

THESE NUMBERS ARE PURE FICTION[/u]

But you get the idea. I'm fairly certain that you also get a penalty to damage if the horse is riding away from you.

The other situation where to get a speed bonus is if you are on a wall or hill and firing down. Gravity will increase the missile speed and you also get some bonus from that.

One other benefit/drawback to the slower missile speed is the more pronounced arc to the arrow flight. You can shoot over hills or rooftops and hit someone on the other side. But, the missile will be so slow, it will be much easier to dodge by an aware enemy.

So really, while there are situations where the Yumi has an advantage, overall it isn't enough to make it a better option compared to the other bows.

Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: SockpuppetSamurai on April 02, 2012, 10:27:21 pm
Thank you Rumblood for the clarification of the speed. I wasn't aware that the lower speed meant less damage in most situations, perhaps it's best used on horseback?

Is it normal to have to aim high even at extreme close range? I've found this to be the case with all of the bows.
(click to show/hide)

I'm finding that I can't see my projectile at ranges which makes adjusting aim guesswork, is this normal?
I'm using Realistic Colors and the alternative crosshair mods, could this be the reason?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Oggrinsky on April 02, 2012, 10:32:03 pm
Looks like I should weigh in on this.

My typical archer build looks like this:

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 15
    Hit points: 66

    Skills to attributes: 2

    Ironflesh: 5
    Power Strike: 7
    Athletics: 5
    Power Draw: 7
    Weapon Master: 5

    Two Handed: 63
    Archery: 140


I've never had more than 140 wpf with 7 PD. Sure, I have a little trouble connecting with those long range shots but I'm pretty accurate from medium and short range. I may give up a tiny bit of accuracy from long range but in exchange I gain more stopping power and the ability to melee effectively. I've found that even with 60 wpf in 2h I can out melee the average Crpg player.
I also use a Yumi, which is fantastic at +3 but not so great at +0.

I understand that it really just comes down to playstyle and that my particular style isn't really newbie friendly.
That being said, ARCHER HYBRIDS ARE NOT GIMPED, but the players who fail at it are.

I guarantee you'll have more fun in the long run if you put in the extra time to learn how to melee and stack some powerstrike.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Cup1d on April 02, 2012, 11:23:30 pm
I'm finding that I can't see my projectile at ranges which makes adjusting aim guesswork, is this normal?


open item_kinds1.txt in your cRPG folder with notepad and replace these

arrows_flying_h1
barbed_arrows_flying_h1
bodkin_arrows_flying_h1
tatar_arrows_flying_h1

with

flying_missile




Quote
I've never had more than 140 wpf with 7 PD. Sure, I have a little trouble connecting with those long range shots but I'm pretty accurate from medium and short range. I may give up a tiny bit of accuracy from long range but in exchange I gain more stopping power and the ability to melee effectively. I've found that even with 60 wpf in 2h I can out melee the average Crpg player.

What range is «medium» for you?
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Oggrinsky on April 03, 2012, 01:25:00 am
What range is «medium» for you?

Well, it's kind of difficult to define "medium" without some kind of reference or measurement of distance. But I guess "medium" range for me would be about 20 players standing side by side... I'm not sure how you expect me to answer this question though, so that'll have to do.

Short range: Just outside melee distance (5 players standing side by side)
Medium range: Well outside of melee distance (20 players standing side by side)
Long range: Far from any melee range (I don't know)
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Rumblood on April 03, 2012, 05:57:20 am
I define it by the arrow flight.

Long range - Max arrow distance (about where it drops)
Medium range - about half the distance of the arrow flight
Short range - Oh snit that melee is about to own my face in 5 seconds!

When I say accurate, I mean pinpoint at range ie long range. Rus will only ever be accurate at mid to 3/4 range with PD 6, with PD 7 you are looking at Mid to 1/3 range depending upon whether you went hybrid or sacrificed points for more Agi and WM.

With that said, PD 7 is still the sweet spot for high damage builds. Most maps you won't be shooting at long range for a long time.  But go with WM 6 at least.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Herkkutatti on April 03, 2012, 07:17:19 am
Just Run away from enemies all the time, nothing else need to know about archers.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: XyNox on April 04, 2012, 08:13:25 am
I gotta say I was quite pleased with the outcome of my 8 PD 6 WM pure archer build with a longbow. It was not exactly accurate but those arrows were fast and packed some mighty punch, functioning like a long range missile barrage. Shooting down horses was a piece of cake. Sadly when someone got close there were not many options to survive.

This gen Ill try 18/21

6 PD, 7 WM, 7 ATH, 3 PS all WPF into archery

Regarding ranges the rageball field is a good reference imo.

very long range: From one goal to another
long range: From your own goal to the enemy quarter line
mid range: everthing in between the distance from your goal to the mid line and your quarter line
short range: Everything shorter from your goal to your quarter line

everything shorter than that is point blank
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Fartface on April 04, 2012, 09:34:26 am
I prefered 18/18.
5if
6 ps
6 pd
6 ath
6 wm
Get like 100-50 1hander wpp, or 2hand, rest in archery ofcource
Wear like 0-1.5 weight head armour.
7-11 body armour.
Mail mittens or Mail gauntlets.
Rus cavalry boots or lighter.
And get a high damaging one hander and just stick with team and shoot and when enemy comes close switch to sword and finish them off.
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: bigsean on April 04, 2012, 07:21:09 pm
open item_kinds1.txt in your cRPG folder with notepad and replace these

arrows_flying_h1
barbed_arrows_flying_h1
bodkin_arrows_flying_h1
tatar_arrows_flying_h1

with

flying_missile

replace arrows_flying_h1 last, otherwise you could end up with things like barbed_flying_missile which means nothing
Title: Re: Archer Tips?
Post by: Templar_Steevee on April 11, 2012, 11:08:14 pm
Strength    18    
Agility    21    

One Handed    6    
Archery    163    


Power Strike    3
Athletics    7    
Power Draw    6    
Weapon Master    7    

On lvl 29 u will have full archer bulit, points on lvl 30 u can put in IF or PS, but i prefer PS (It's funny when i'm killing ninjas os runners with my hand axe) :)

I'm using mw longbow and mw tatar arrows.

Some tips from me:

1)To be usefull on battlefield u have to think.
 Take position where you are preety safe from cav, but also from where u can shoot enemies. Try to help you teammates fighting with enemies, but shot if u have clear position.

2)Remember: the worst enemy of archer is other range unit, so stop only for a moment when you are going to shot :) and try to kill enemies range every single occasion you have

3)Archers don't like cav, so shoot cav guys down or dismount them. If you will stay in a group of 3-4 archers many cav will think twice before try to come closer to you. Dismounting enemies cav is also really usefull for your teammates, especially HA and Horse x-bow

4)No one will show you mercy, because you are an archer, so don't show mercy for others. But respect duels... sometimes :) And if you will have occasion to shot someones back, just do it :D

While leveling up from pesant to an archer I preffer to run as a pesant meelee with some cheap blunt or pierce dmg 1h (i'm using Light spiked club or knobbed mace) and pitch fork(best pesant anti-cav weapon) you will practice melee fighting and will be more usefull for your team than shooting with piu-piu bows (below 4 pd). You will also earn some money (upkeep for weapons I suggest is just silly)