cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 05:45:16 pm

Title: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 05:45:16 pm
If for nothing else than to get an actual view of how all the different builds are stacking up vs each other. Raw numbers don't tell us anything without the context of how many players were using X build or weapon Y. A single round won't tell us anything either, but over time patterns will become clear.

Also, in the interest of actually winning rounds and gaining multipliers, this will tell you who is really doing the damage to your team. If you look at the scoreboard to go headhunting to provide your team a better chance of winning, and yourself a better chance of getting a multiplier you want some way to tell who is causing the most harm. Right now, it can lie.

For example, a couched lancer pretty much gets 1 hit kills. They might go 20-1 over the course of a game and do, lets just guess an avg of 60 per kill or 1200 damage. An unlucky archer might be hitting everything in sight, but not actually ever get a kill. They could do an average of 20 damage per arrow, land 100 hits, but go 1-5 on the scoreboard. However, they did 2000 damage to the other team during those rounds.

Those numbers are pure fiction. We don't know what they might be. But lets pretend they are real, who would you headhunt? The armored lancer who can run away forever, or the squishy archer you can run down with your pony? Suddenly an otherwise anonymous archer is dead, their team loses a cumulative 2000 points of damage over the rounds and they don't understand why they lost their x5 when they were rolling the shit out of the other team.

Lets get the damage numbers up there along with the kills so that players can make a more informed decision about which enemy to hunt down in order to give you the best chance at a multiplier.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 05:51:03 pm
Nicely masked e-peen request.

Even tho i see the reasoning for this, i would find this quite distracting, and people would go crazy for scoring at least some dmg to get added for them, which is not as good as it seems. Could lead to more TH and TKing. And also, still does not show the usefulness of every single person on the battlefield.

Where would you see them poor pikemon who are forcing downblocks on your targets so you can squish them? Where would be the guy who was kiting shielder so his archers could get him from side/back? Those numbers would be still missing, and those exactly might be the battle turning facts, so in general it wont help to see the dmg overall  :mrgreen:

Sort of confused at the moment...
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 06:07:51 pm
People are already using an invalid data model upon which to base their arguments (K/d scoreboard posts abound in Nerf threads). This would at least move the goalposts closer to accurate.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Materia on March 18, 2012, 06:08:03 pm
No I agree with Cepeshi. I only need "assits". Would be good for shooting players. They hit, but they often get 0, so assist would be good.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 06:09:25 pm
Quote from: Materia on March 18, 2012, 06:08:03 pm
No I agree with Cepeshi. I only need "assits". Would be good for shooting players. They hit, but they often get 0, so assist would be good.

You fail at poll then. You should have selected the "I would prefer a different change to the scoreboard, that I have posted below", not the "
No."
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 06:15:43 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 06:09:25 pm
You fail at poll then. You should have selected the "I would prefer a different change to the scoreboard, that I have posted below", not the "
No."

Cut the newbies some slack man, seriously :P :) If you play often enough, you know whom to focus fire and try to gank among first anyways. Sometimes it is even enough to try to make your whole team go after their top players, happens rarely, but happens.

I would not mind some stats being released retrospectively, for the "balance" discussion sake. I would not like seeing too much info on scoreboard, anything more than list of players is not necessary imho. (Feels good to top the scores tho, no discussions here  :mrgreen: )
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 06:24:55 pm
They already released damage stats, but stats in a void are meaningless. Context matters.

(Peasants can read too  :P )
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 06:27:52 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 06:24:55 pm
They already released damage stats, but stats in a void are meaningless. Context matters.

(Peasants can read too  :P )

Yeah, but the format in which they fed us those was not quite okay for balance discussions.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: larlek on March 18, 2012, 06:30:06 pm
We should have points instead. No kills or deaths just points. You get 5 points for a kill 2 for an assist and -1 for a death. I'm sure you could add some other stuff too but that could be worked out later, like extra points for head shots etc...
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 06:31:04 pm
Quote from: larlek on March 18, 2012, 06:30:06 pm
We should have points instead. No kills or deaths just points. You get 5 points for a kill 2 for an assist and -1 for a death. I'm sure you could add some other stuff too but that could be worked out later, like extra points for head shots etc...

Go back to COD...
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: larlek on March 18, 2012, 06:37:07 pm
Stopped playing call of duty after the second game. Way back before it turned into that modern warfare crap. If you're implying that all cod games are bad because the new games are bad then you're a very stupid person. Play call of duty 1&2 again and then edit your comment and apologize for being silly. Also go and play the first battlefield and arma.

This is a suggestion corner where we throw around ideas. You don't like a point system? Fine. But some people do and that is something you will have to deal with chum. Nothing we say in here is going to go into the game anyway so stop being a b*tch.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 07:14:08 pm
Quote from: larlek on March 18, 2012, 06:37:07 pm
Stopped playing call of duty after the second game. Way back before it turned into that modern warfare crap. If you're implying that all cod games are bad because the new games are bad then you're a very stupid person. Play call of duty 1&2 again and then edit your comment and apologize for being silly. Also go and play the first battlefield and arma.

This is a suggestion corner where we throw around ideas. You don't like a point system? Fine. But some people do and that is something you will have to deal with chum. Nothing we say in here is going to go into the game anyway so stop being a b*tch.

Thanks for calling me stupid, yet failing to understand what i meant.../golfclap.
If you want to play smart guy on interwebs, at least be smart for fuck sake. I was implying that this extra headshot score is usually happening in FPS games, you disagree on that? I do not find any of this "suggestion" (fucking ripping off other games/ideas imho) compelling. I do not care who had how many headshots, i do not care who hit others twice more than i did, i do not fucking care if i am on top or bottom of score, i just care for my team to win. So sad that most of you fail to realize what we are playing, medieval combat simulator for fuck sake, not a e-peen shooter.

Sorry for being mean, but:

Quote from: larlek on March 18, 2012, 06:30:06 pm
We should have points instead. No kills or deaths just points. You get 5 points for a kill 2 for an assist and -1 for a death. I'm sure you could add some other stuff too but that could be worked out later, like extra points for head shots etc...

This is why i pointed out go back to COD, cause i know in those types of games you got the exact bonuses you suggested here.

Now tell me once more i am stupid.

Edit: not to mention i actually played all the games you brought up, except ARMA. Do not try to educate me over here please, it is unnecessary. The fact i do suck at FPS does not have anything to do with any of this.  :mrgreen:


For them who never played those, this was suggested:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Ronin on March 18, 2012, 07:37:33 pm
Even though I choosed the option yes, I have a good and better suggestion now.

As cepeshi said, damage system fails to reveal everything. It only shows the offensive power of the players, not their defensive acts. Besides, if it would be shown how much damage a player does; this would reveal and spoil how much damage you actually do to the player. Which you can see in the Singleplayer of Warband but not in the Multiplayer of Warband.

I have a better idea then. Let also make this a point system which shows the total usefulness of the player overall. Which will be updated after each round on the scoreboard, but not during the round.

Kills - 4 points per a kill
Total damage dealt - 0,1 points per damage dealt
Total number of succesful blocks - 0,5 points per a succesful block *
Total time of survival - 0,1 per every minutes staying alive
Assists - 0,5 points per enemy death close to you *
True assists -  4 points if someone dies in 2 seconds after you hit him (which makes the kill score actually 6 points per kill) *

Teamkills - (-5) score points per succesfully (lol?) teamkilling one of your brother in arms
Teamhits - (-0,2) score points per damage dealt to your own fellows
Cowardice - (-1) score points per minutes you stay alive after some time (can be changed for the server) you do not deal any damage or recieve damage. *

the ones with the red stars * , represent that they might be hard to implement. Therefore can be ignored. But it would be a better balance overall, if they are also included.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: larlek on March 18, 2012, 07:46:47 pm
When you make implications. Make them clear. It helps.

I think that Skill should always be rewarded. Whether it be that you get more xp/$ or more points. The sytem is irrelevent. Instead of being ignorant and screaming "WAHH HE WANTS TO PUT THINGS FROM THINGS I DONT LIKE IN THINGS I LIKE WHYYYYYY?" why don't you try and look at the positive sides of a point system. Point systems are great for deathmatches. For game modes where you're playing on your own.

This is a suggestion forum where we talk about things a discuss the positives and negatives of new/old ideas. Screaming "GO BACK TO COOODDD DURRHHHURRR" when someone says something that you don't like is rather silly.

Quote
I do not care who had how many headshots, i do not care who hit others twice more than i did, i do not fucking care if i am on top or bottom of score, i just care for my team to win.

I agree. This is one of the downsides of a point system. The fact that it is rather damaging to team playing.

Quote
I do not find any of this "suggestion" (fucking ripping off other games/ideas imho) compelling.
Welcome to the world of video games. Welcome to life. Taking ideas from others and making them into something of your own is something everyone does.

Quote
So sad that most of you fail to realize what we are playing, medieval combat simulator for fuck sake, not a e-peen shooter.
I don't think there are many who are confused about what they're playing and I don't think that a point system would change that. Like I said before. There isn't really that much difference between a k/d system and a point system.

Quote
Now tell me once more i am stupid.
I will correct myself. I believe that you're ignorant and unable to accept that other people have different opinions. I like the point system but I can appreciate that fact that you do not and I accept the differences in our opinions.

To lazy to spell check. Deal with it. Typing this on a mobile device.
I'm going off for a bit now. If you want to talk more about this then message me cepeshi. Saves me some trouble of looking around for the thread.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 07:54:32 pm
Well, tell me, how is a lucky over half map headshot skill? How is the fact my sideswing killed a guy i did not even knew about considered skill? If there should be any change in the scoreboards, i say remove the score once in for all. Just keep it as a list of people for both teams, keep the ping there aswell, as that is useful info, remove the rest. Would be totally fine by me.

And, i do not have problems understanding that other people might have different opinions, i just hate when someone is playing smart and calling others stupid/ignorant even tho they have no fucking idea whom are they talking to. You called me stupid based on wrong assumption, and to make up for it you call me ignorant, i really do not see why i should bother spending more time duscussing with you, i am not interested to see what is the next characteristics you will point out on me.

edit: my last post in this discussion as i stated opinion already and i do not want this to be moved to spam due to personal discrepancies
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: larlek on March 18, 2012, 07:58:32 pm
If you take people seriously when they call you stupid then maybe you really are stupid. If you wish to be ignorant then that is your choice. I respect your opinions and as you requested we will end this discussion here. Like I said. I'm off now.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Ronin on March 18, 2012, 08:10:36 pm
Quote from: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 07:54:32 pm
Well, tell me, how is a lucky over half map headshot skill? How is the fact my sideswing killed a guy i did not even knew about considered skill? If there should be any change in the scoreboards, i say remove the score once in for all. Just keep it as a list of people for both teams, keep the ping there aswell, as that is useful info, remove the rest. Would be totally fine by me.

And, i do not have problems understanding that other people might have different opinions, i just hate when someone is playing smart and calling others stupid/ignorant even tho they have no fucking idea whom are they talking to. You called me stupid based on wrong assumption, and to make up for it you call me ignorant, i really do not see why i should bother spending more time duscussing with you, i am not interested to see what is the next characteristics you will point out on me.

edit: my last post in this discussion as i stated opinion already and i do not want this to be moved to spam due to personal discrepancies
Forgive my language my friend but you are ignorant and stupid. There are ways to say this in more polite ways, but I think this one will be the most efficient.

When you kill people with luck, that is not a thing that happens always. This would reward you only a bit little than you actually deserve, just as the bad luck might cause you to be downgraded. You can't argue fortune/misfortune is not being rewarded with the kill-death system already. Your argument is invalid.

*
Enough with this already, make some friggin comment on my thoughts!

Ok, here I will make some negative scores as well as positive ones; that I will also add them to my other post.

Teamkills - (-5) score points per succesfully (lol?) teamkilling one of your brother in arms
Teamhits - (-0,2) score points per damage dealt to your own fellows
Cowardice - (-1) score points per minutes you stay alive after some time (can be changed for the server) you do not deal any damage or recieve damage.

Note that there are no penalty for recieving damage or death, as it can be counted in the time of survival. Also, it doesn't matter if you die or take damage in battle in terms of usefulness to your team.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 09:30:17 pm
Quote from: Cepeshi on March 18, 2012, 07:54:32 pm
Well, tell me, how is a lucky over half map headshot skill?

With the proper bow and WPF, my across the an ENTIRE map headshots are on purpose  :wink:
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: ammeron on March 19, 2012, 01:41:16 pm
Quote from: Rumblood on March 18, 2012, 05:45:16 pm
An unlucky archer might be hitting everything in sight, but not actually ever get a kill. They could do an average of 20 damage per arrow, land 100 hits, but go 1-5 on the scoreboard. However, they did 2000 damage to the other team during those rounds.

or how about u put down the tatar bow and get a real bow with 10 pd like a real man and ur score might reflect ur damage better :)

however i do think a damage done tab would be a nice input, even melee classes sometimes get a lot of hits just not the final blow, would be interesting to see some players damage
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 20, 2012, 01:11:48 am
Quote from: ammeron on March 19, 2012, 01:41:16 pm
or how about u put down the tatar bow and get a real bow with 10 pd like a real man and ur score might reflect ur damage better :)

however i do think a damage done tab would be a nice input, even melee classes sometimes get a lot of hits just not the final blow, would be interesting to see some players damage

Haha!

I think there would be less chatter about Agility builds being less viable than Strength builds if it were to show a similar damage output.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: karasu on March 20, 2012, 01:17:06 am
While at it, make it show damage AND team damage.

 Bloody team hitters *cough cough*
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Joker86 on March 20, 2012, 01:32:54 am
How about this: all players get their win and loss ratio for rounds tracked continuously, same like kills and deaths on the website. The ratio is being calculated as percisely as possible, about four or five decimal places. This ratio determines who has the biggest e-peen.

Of course clan players who often play together will top the scoreboards as soon as they enter the server, but perhaps some other players might get more interest in winning rounds, rather than just killing people. It's a change of mind of the community I would like to see. And I know many of you disagree, but still  :P
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 20, 2012, 01:49:25 am
I would like to see neither a scoreboard nor a damageboard or anything that has to do with it.

What did it bring us?  1000 of whinethreads in which people request nerfs or buffs. And even more people who love to play their "uh i'm such an epic soloplayer" - playstyle....Just remove it completely, maybe folks will start playing in teams again :/


@Rumblood: You know that this would cause even more whine on forums? Especially against those who do not use a polearm or twohanded sword.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 20, 2012, 02:17:06 am
Quote from: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 20, 2012, 01:49:25 am
@Rumblood: You know that this would cause even more whine on forums? Especially against those who do not use a polearm or twohanded sword.

At least it would be based upon a more valid data set  :idea:
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 20, 2012, 05:46:33 am
+1

This feature is long past overdue

Also, good discussion. Keep the ideas coming.
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Ronin on March 21, 2012, 10:04:16 am
Ok let me type some more ideas.

Based on some calculations, I have changed the formula I have posted previously. Also I think Joker86 is very right. No matter what Win/Lose would play a good role in the website, as well as it will do in the scoreboard.
Quote
Kills - 2 points per a kill (actual points is 4 per a kill)
Total damage dealt - 0,2 points per damage dealt
Total number of succesful blocks, against an enemy player - 0,5 points per a succesful block
Total time of survival - 0,1 per every second staying alive
Assists - 0,1 points per enemy death close to you
True assists -  2 points if someone dies in 2 seconds after you hit him (which makes the kill points actually 4 points per kill)
Win - 20 points per win. No matter what.

Teamkills - (-6) score points per succesfully (lol?) teamkilling one of your brother in arms
Teamhits - (-0,3) score points per damage dealt to your own fellows
Cowardice - (-10) score points per minutes you stay alive after some time (can be changed for the server) and do not deal any damage or recieve damage.
Lose - (-20) points for lose. No matter what.

Let's say a player is on the top of the scoreboard with a 23-12 kill death ratio in the siege server. Assume that he is also responsible of two teamkills accidentally somehow. Whick makes his actual number of kills 25. Also, he is a twohander/polearmer who mostly kills his enemies and whomever he fought he died or struck the final blow but let's say he also dealt 200 more damage and wounded enemies. Additionally also contributed to death of 6 enemies. There have been lots of deaths happened around him, let's say 100. Given his good blocking skills, he also do 20 succesful blocks. I also considered his overall damage as 50.

Kills -> 25*4=100  points
Damage Dealt -> Around (50*25+200)*0,2=290 points
Blocks - > 20*0,5= 10 points
Survival - > 150*0,1=15 points
Assists - > 100*0,1=10 points
True Assists - > 6*2=12 points
Win - > 3 rounds, 3*20=60 points

Teamkills - > -5*2=-10 points
Teamhits - > (-50*2-100)*0,2=-40 points
No cowardice - ___
Lose - > 2 rounds, 2*20=-40 points

Which makes a total of 407 points!

Let's see for an archer. His story:
Let's say an archer is not on the top of the scoreboard with a 14-6 kill death ratio in the siege server. Assume that he is responsible of no teamkills, and wounded no teammates. Let's say he dealt 650 more damage to enemies. Contributed to death of 8 enemies. 70 number of deaths happened around him. He did 35 succesful blocks. His overall damage is 40.
Kills - > 14*4= 56 points
Damage Dealt - > Around (40*14+650)*0,2=242 points
Blocks - > 35*0,5= 17,5 points
Survival - > 225*0,1=22,5 points
Assists - > 70*0,1=7 points
True Assists - > 8*2= 16 points
Win - > 3 rounds, 3*20=60 points

No teamkills - > _____
No Teamhits - > _____
No cowardice - > ____
Lose - 2 rounds, 2*20=-40 points

Which makes a total of 381 points!
At least now, it seems very close to the realistic. Note that, if the archer is really that useful; he can make his team win maybe and earn 20 more points. but that one seems to be dependent upon luck as well as personal skill of the player.

Now how can these points work? Well, maybe after going over 400-450 points; there may be some bonuses to wpf. Like there was something similiar; that you understand you recieve a bonus when you see the text "thy work paid off... bla bla". (I don't really remember :P)
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Rumblood on March 21, 2012, 09:57:25 pm
If you want to propose something completely different, create your own thread for it. You'll get relevant feedback for it rather than clutter up this one. Please stay on the original topic and proposal.

But thanks for the bump  :wink:
Title: Re: Add damage to the scoreboard
Post by: Ronin on March 21, 2012, 11:54:52 pm
Oh I didn't know :?
I guess this one was connected to the topic. Ok my bad. Going to post it soon.

Well, no matter what if the damage will be added to the scoreboard; it should be done after each round in my opinion. Because in the single player of the mount and blade, you get feedback from everything. Damage dealt, speed bonus, shoot difficulty and such. In multiplayer, no feedback is given. I think it's that way for a purpose, to not spoil everything to the player. If your blow caused him to be very close to death or not. So if an archer just shoots someone in the chest and looks to the scoreoard to see how much damage it dealt, it would be spoiling. Not that it is a bad thing, but original game developers decided to make it that way.