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cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: k4ts0u on March 14, 2012, 07:48:52 pm

Title: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: k4ts0u on March 14, 2012, 07:48:52 pm
Hello ,
I want to try 1h cavalary this gen and i have some questions. Note that i dont have much money so i need to be able to repair my gear with what i gain. Also build inputs are welcome.

1)Should i use wpm?

2)Which 1h swords are mostly used and why?

3)Which horse should i use?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Digglez on March 14, 2012, 07:54:45 pm
dont do cav if you are poor, under 50k or so.

Yes, WPF = more dmg

NCS, ACS, KAS & Shaska are probably the best swords.  I've seen some goofballs use Long Espada and do decent.  Although Scimitars do alright vs infantry, you are at a big disadvantage not having a thrust attack to ward off enemy cav.

Destrier is easy #1.  Well rounded, tough enough to take some hits even if you get reared, and good bump damage.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: MR_FISTA on March 14, 2012, 07:56:42 pm
The most important factor is the horse, you need something that suits your riding style.

As for weapons I see many people using scimitars, Arabian straight swords and other swords with decent length.

Personally I'd be interested to see the effectiveness of a weapon with knock down such as the war hammer or military hammer.

I could imagine something like that would be god damn annoying for most infantry.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 14, 2012, 07:57:18 pm
Or just use a lance and have a 1h as your side arm :)

If you're determined to gimp yourself using 1h on cav, then digglez is a good person to get advice from.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Digglez on March 14, 2012, 07:59:25 pm
The most important factor is the horse, you need something that suits your riding style.

As for weapons I see many people using scimitars, Arabian straight swords and other swords with decent length.

Personally I'd be interested to see the effectiveness of a weapon with knock down such as the war hammer or military hammer.

I could imagine something like that would be god damn annoying for most infantry.

Blunt weapons are just a gimmick.  If you are good 1h cav you should be bump slashing, which would knock them down anyways.  Bumps should be doing 1/3 or more of your dmg as a 1h'er, so you dont need a knockdown weapon.  You need something long to reach enemies, especially lil agi whores and archers that can easily outmanuever the reach of a 80 length blunt weapon
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: k4ts0u on March 14, 2012, 08:13:00 pm
I have around 70k but i dont want to be losing money because that wont last long.What about this build?
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Digglez on March 14, 2012, 08:17:13 pm
I have around 70k but i dont want to be losing money because that wont last long.What about this build?
(click to show/hide)

thats fine, although I'd take a point off shield and put it into IF.

To save money you can use rouncey with 1x or 2x or wait for other cav to die and steal their horses.  Dont underestimate your power as a distraction, you dont have to be the one doing the killing or charging to be useful for your team.  I cant count the number of times me riding behind an enemy and distracting them with an attack posture has gotten them killed by my infantry guys that snuck up behind them.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: k4ts0u on March 14, 2012, 08:25:10 pm
Thanks a lot for the replies.I really apreciate that!
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Tore on March 14, 2012, 09:13:09 pm
Take away the 5 WM points and put them in IF.

There is only 30 1h wpf difference between 0 and 5 VM, nothing..
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Digglez on March 14, 2012, 09:49:47 pm
Take away the 5 WM points and put them in IF.

There is only 30 1h wpf difference between 0 and 5 VM, nothing..

Going from 120 to 150 1h WPF when using a shield is quite noticeable.  You're able to get in counter-attacks easier and can really surprise people with how fast you swing swords.  Anyone over like a 50 ping benefits greatly.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 14, 2012, 10:05:30 pm
I'd agree, going from 120 to 150 WPF in any weapon is going to see a noticeable speed difference.   Not to mention less upkeep chance, and more damage.  If you're splitting WPF into two skills, then WM isn't that huge of a deal (I'd still recommend 4 or so).
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: rustyspoon on March 15, 2012, 12:43:21 am
The difference in damage between 5 WM and 0 WM is about 1 point. The speed difference is also barely noticeable. I can still spam the shit out of people with 0 WM. The only real difference you're going to notice is upkeep. You'll end up paying a lot more with 0 WM.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Digglez on March 15, 2012, 02:43:27 am
The difference in damage between 5 WM and 0 WM is about 1 point. The speed difference is also barely noticeable. I can still spam the shit out of people with 0 WM. The only real difference you're going to notice is upkeep. You'll end up paying a lot more with 0 WM.

you are also an agi build and use 99 speed italian sword, not a 97 or slower speed cav sword
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 15, 2012, 04:29:58 am
Due to my low WPF i use a short sword as a side sword. When i get dismounted i pull that out and fight with it, its got 103 speed and is cheap. IF isnt going to help you much, 1h cav is purely about power. Its alot harder to play than lancer cav and is weak against other cavalry, but with my mighty morning star and its 41 pierce damage i do alot more damage than even a couched lance, but then again the shorter the weapon is and the slower it is the harder it is to use, so start out with a 1h weapon. Maybe move up to that when/if you get good enough. If you hit somone and dont kill them your not going to get another chance, killing someone who knows your coming is hard to do unless your fairly good so power is important.

 You could lose your 5 athletics and 5 WM and throw some of it at STR to get another power strike, spend the rest on IF if youve got no where else to put it. You dont need athletics or WM, i have no athletics and can fight on foot just fine. Also about swords, cut damage really is just crap, and if you hit someone with alot of armor even if you have 10 PS its not going to do much, unless you just wanna kill archers i wouldn't use a sword, or atleast use a longsword. Also 1h cav is hard at first you gota stick with it if you actually wanna do 1h cav. If your using a 1h it doesnt matter if you cant thrust, when fighting other cav you should t bone them and spam the shit out of them they got a lance they cant hit you back.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: rustyspoon on March 15, 2012, 01:08:51 pm
you are also an agi build and use 99 speed italian sword, not a 97 or slower speed cav sword

My athletics are higher than average, but I'm actually a balanced build. I also use a 94 speed military hammer. 97 speed is still really, really fast. That's also why there is barely a benefit from WPF. The faster the weapon, the worse the speed increase from WPF is. In my opinion if you are using a single weapon class that isn't ranged and you're not using a slow weapon, WM is a bad investment.

If you're a hybrid, ranged or use something like a Long Maul, it's good to put points in WM. I have builds that use WM and those that don't. It all depends on what you're trying to do. I just think dumping 5 points into weapon master for 30 WPF is a bad investment.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Spawny on March 15, 2012, 01:29:23 pm
You could lose your 5 athletics and 5 WM and throw some of it at STR to get another power strike, spend the rest on IF if youve got no where else to put it. You dont need athletics or WM, i have no athletics and can fight on foot just fine. Also about swords, cut damage really is just crap, and if you hit someone with alot of armor even if you have 10 PS its not going to do much, unless you just wanna kill archers i wouldn't use a sword, or atleast use a longsword. Also 1h cav is hard at first you gota stick with it if you actually wanna do 1h cav. If your using a 1h it doesnt matter if you cant thrust, when fighting other cav you should t bone them and spam the shit out of them they got a lance they cant hit you back.

Having no athletics can be fine when you get in a fight after being dismounted, but you will be next to useless in maps where you can't use your horse. On top of that, if you survive a bit after being dismounted, that 0 athletics will get you overwhelmed fairly quickly, as you can't prevent anyone from circling you by backpeddaling.
The longsword get's a rather large (30% I think) damage penalty when used with a shield, making it's effective damage much lower than that of an arabian cav sword or a nordic champion's sword. The speedbonus from being on horseback also increase your damage substantially. You won't be killing tincans in 1 hit, but I've yet to see one survive 3 hits with good speedbonus.
On foot it will take a few hits to kill one, but with my 18/18 build I can kill them just fine.
The use of thrusting as a 1h/cav player on horseback is not for fights against lancers, it's to kill other 1h/cav. The reach on the stab is quite long and you can often kill the enemy bfore they can reach you with their swing. When using a long espada, you can use the thrust to do high damage stabs against tincan infantry.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Darkoveride on March 15, 2012, 01:33:27 pm
Well for 1hander cav build i would say dont worry too much about your athletics cause 70% of the time you wont get up when dehorsed to m ake use of that speed , but have higher ironflesh and good shield skill is good idea, it all comes down to what kind of infantry fighter you are.

Aside from that you got a nice solid build. weapons wise everything "dig" said is fine, i tend to favor long arming sword currently mainly as i dont see the point of the extra cost of knightly. rouncey is a good solid horse you just have to be more cautious, but its a good horse to learn on as it will allow you to learn the best ways to tackle different targets. Then you get more confident and can afford the up keep , which is 1600 odd gold switch to destrier and you will be able to take a few more risks and more easily go toe to toe with cav.
Fighting cav isnt easy for 1handers but if you team up with other cav then you can be quite effective.

Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Tore on March 15, 2012, 02:49:34 pm
If you're a hybrid, ranged or use something like a Long Maul, it's good to put points in WM. I have builds that use WM and those that don't. It all depends on what you're trying to do. I just think dumping 5 points into weapon master for 30 WPF is a bad investment.

this
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 15, 2012, 03:51:45 pm
I personally really love having my athletics maxed as cavalry.  It's just so nice being able to run around on foot when you're dismounted.  There's maps where I roll infantry (not to mention going infantry is a good way to make money), and the most important reason for me, strategus.  Strategus battles are so much fun and you get a lot of experience fighting in them. 
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Fartface on March 15, 2012, 08:02:35 pm
i use 21/15
7 if
7 ps
5 shield
5 ath
5 riding
0 wm.
102 1h wpp
50 pole wpp
Still get 24-3 score , on foot with heraldic tranny so wpp is overrated,
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Spawny on March 15, 2012, 08:37:54 pm
i use 21/15
7 if
7 ps
5 shield
5 ath
5 riding
0 wm.
102 1h wpp
50 pole wpp
Still get 24-3 score , on foot with heraldic tranny so wpp is overrated,

Armour crutcher...  :wink:
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 15, 2012, 08:41:36 pm
Having no athletics can be fine when you get in a fight after being dismounted, but you will be next to useless in maps where you can't use your horse. On top of that, if you survive a bit after being dismounted, that 0 athletics will get you overwhelmed fairly quickly, as you can't prevent anyone from circling you by backpeddaling.
The longsword get's a rather large (30% I think) damage penalty when used with a shield, making it's effective damage much lower than that of an arabian cav sword or a nordic champion's sword. The speedbonus from being on horseback also increase your damage substantially. You won't be killing tincans in 1 hit, but I've yet to see one survive 3 hits with good speedbonus.
On foot it will take a few hits to kill one, but with my 18/18 build I can kill them just fine.
The use of thrusting as a 1h/cav player on horseback is not for fights against lancers, it's to kill other 1h/cav. The reach on the stab is quite long and you can often kill the enemy bfore they can reach you with their swing. When using a long espada, you can use the thrust to do high damage stabs against tincan infantry.

The only maps you cant use a horse on are seige maps, which i dont play them, and i dont know why a cav player would want to play seige in the first place. Backpedlars still have to come in range to hit you, u just block their attack and strike back, not to mention you cant backpedal faster than someone can run forward reguardless of athletics hold down your w key you should be fine. They cant run around you if you have a shield, just turn its not hard. There is no damange pentalty for longswrod/monringstar being used 1h, its swing speed penalty, and speed is not that big of a deal on horseback if your a good player.

Yes i one shot strength crutching tin cans with my morningstar every time i have decent speed, with no speed i two shot them or if they are slighty wounded i still one shot them. Any decent player is not goign to let you hit them 3 times with a one hand weapon, most players have 2h/poles and the 1hs can still easily get you, its critical to one shot people as much as possible. And as far as killing other cav, if your 1h cav your job is NOT to kill other cav, your job is to completely avoid other cav and kill the enemy infatnry. Even then you dont want to be stabbing people from behind like your a lancer cav, and if a 1h cav is trying to do that to you then just t bone them, they cant hit and you can hit their horse in the head and kill it easily.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 15, 2012, 09:07:58 pm
Pretty good insight lemmy.

Even as lancer cav your goal should really never be to go 1v1 against other cavalry (going 5 v 1 against other cav can be good though).  1v1 even as lancer cav you're still looking at a 50% chance of dying, one of you is going  to die most likely. 

My "theory" for lancer cav (at least that I try to go by is this):  Run interference on enemy cav to keep them away from your ground troops (especially the archers and people who get separated from the group).   If I need to engage other cavalry it's mainly because they're attacking my teammates, and I try to aim for their horse (generally it depends on situation) and try to dismount them.  I will then move on because they have been neutralized.  Big pet peeve of mine is when friendly lancer cav kills an enemy horse and then ends up getting dismounted going for the kill on the guy they just dismounted.

The main bulk of my targets as lancer cav is and should always be enemy ground troops.  That's where cavalry devastates.
Title: Re: Need advice on 1h Cav build
Post by: Osiris on March 17, 2012, 10:24:32 pm
my 1h cav build is this

18-18
6IF
6PS
5shield
3 Ath
6 riding
3 wpm

130ish wpf

My gear

Champion Rouncy
Lordly Haubergeon
MP Dark Red Heavy Norman Shield
Lordly Gilded hourglass gauntlets
MW Nordic champion sword

i find my build has good power from Horseback and is also very nice on foot. You might not be able to use normal rouncy for long and may want to get heavier armour if its unloomed