cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Blueberry Muffin on March 14, 2012, 02:29:26 pm

Title: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on March 14, 2012, 02:29:26 pm
Before you say anything, no I do not mean being able to hit people with them.

To my knowledge you cannot use 2 seperate stacks of arrows properly. If we were to add a secondary mode function to be able to switch between quivers though.. For example, you are cruising around with one stack of 20 barbed arrows shooting peasants, but then you see a plate armoured guy. Oh well no problem. Press 'x' and switch to your stack of 15 bodkins. I think it would greatly add variety to archery and allow for more tactical gameplay from an archers point of view.

Discuss, troll, whine, etc
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: bredeus on March 14, 2012, 02:37:28 pm
Sounds logic and fair.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 14, 2012, 02:44:16 pm
Sounds really good, as far as I remember I also suggested exactly the same once...no answer or change since then :/
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Vibe on March 14, 2012, 02:44:57 pm
Sounds logic and fair.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: _Tak_ on March 14, 2012, 04:33:41 pm
Before you say anything, no I do not mean being able to hit people with them.

Realisticly as a archer IN REAL LIFE you should be able to use your bow to swing at your enemy as a weapon just like the guns. (Common sense). weapon damage should be around 10 blunt for a longbow
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on March 14, 2012, 04:49:48 pm
maybe give bows the avibilty to block but not to attack ! (=
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Malaclypse on March 14, 2012, 05:02:27 pm
This seems like a very reasonable suggestion, and I would like to see it implemented.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 14, 2012, 05:30:44 pm
Seems reasonable to me, not sure how easy it would be to implement.  Doesn't it just normally stack all arrows into one quiver like in native? 
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 14, 2012, 05:32:46 pm
Before you say anything, no I do not mean being able to hit people with them.

I came in here slightly disappointed by my assumption that you were about to make a silly suggestion, only to read a marvelous idea!

+1, this would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Boerenlater on March 14, 2012, 06:38:57 pm
Use arrows as thrown weapons.

Throwing Bodkin arrows
missile speed: 10
weight: 3
accuracy: 89
speed rating: 102
missile speed: 10
max ammo: 15
thrust damage: 5 cut/0 pierce
slots: 1
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Remy on March 14, 2012, 08:33:34 pm
The ability to switch arrows seems like it would be quite nice.  :D
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: HELM on March 14, 2012, 08:35:35 pm
SMART  :idea:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: B3RS3RK on March 14, 2012, 08:38:39 pm
Realisticly as a archer IN REAL LIFE you should be able to use your bow to swing at your enemy as a weapon just like the guns. (Common sense). weapon damage should be around 10 blunt for a longbow

Only if you need to stand still 5-10 seconds before that to pull the string off your bow(if you dont do that It can easily get damaged when you hit someone with it), and the same time again if you want to shoot again.Oh and a Random chance of maybe 20% that the bow gets damaged and loses 50% accuracy should also be included. :wink:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Cepeshi on March 14, 2012, 08:43:00 pm
As a guy mostly playing melee or cav, i do not like this suggestion. It is all about choice, i do not see reason why archers should have this advantage of being able to select type of dmg for themselves according to targets. That is just unfair to all them melee that have to use ONE direction of attack to use different damage type. (even not available to all weapons)

Flame how much you want, i just stated my opinion  :mrgreen:

Edit: Also, for headshotting, is the difference too visible using cut/pierce? If no, just aim better  :wink:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Farrok on March 14, 2012, 09:31:34 pm
As a guy mostly playing melee or cav, i do not like this suggestion. It is all about choice, i do not see reason why archers should have this advantage of being able to select type of dmg for themselves according to targets. That is just unfair to all them melee that have to use ONE direction of attack to use different damage type. (even not available to all weapons)

Flame how much you want, i just stated my opinion  :mrgreen:

Edit: Also, for headshotting, is the difference too visible using cut/pierce? If no, just aim better  :wink:

why it is unfair to have archer the same thing as melee? melee can change weapon for other damage types...currently archer can have different arrows but cant choose which of them is shooting with the bow.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Bulzur on March 14, 2012, 10:04:07 pm
Interesting suggestion.
Would make it interesting to have tatar AND bodkin arrows.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 14, 2012, 10:50:24 pm
already suggested i think, nothing has been done so far
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 14, 2012, 10:59:38 pm
As a guy mostly playing melee or cav, i do not like this suggestion. It is all about choice, i do not see reason why archers should have this advantage of being able to select type of dmg for themselves according to targets. That is just unfair to all them melee that have to use ONE direction of attack to use different damage type. (even not available to all weapons)

You know, most weapons you can now press X to radically change damage types, like the Poleaxe or Bec or Hammer etc. Some other weapons can even go into polearm mode and rear horses.

Care to swing again about how melee can't do this? Because... They can.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 14, 2012, 11:33:50 pm
As a guy mostly playing melee or cav, i do not like this suggestion. It is all about choice, i do not see reason why archers should have this advantage of being able to select type of dmg for themselves according to targets. That is just unfair to all them melee that have to use ONE direction of attack to use different damage type. (even not available to all weapons)

Flame how much you want, i just stated my opinion  :mrgreen:

Edit: Also, for headshotting, is the difference too visible using cut/pierce? If no, just aim better  :wink:

Well mister you can have a cutweapon and a pierce/bluntweapon to change between different targets, if you wish so. Why shouldn't we get the choice?



Btw guys, you know what force works on a bow when you pull the string? Hit someone with it might work, but not for long until the bow receives dmg.
Block a weapon? Erm...anything to say on that? One dent in your bow's wood and the bow might break next time you draw it....less crap please^^

already suggested i think, nothing has been done so far

Sadly :/  But yeah, I think it has been sugested more than once. Maybe devs are trying to figure out how that works *hopes* ^^
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tomas_of_Miles on March 14, 2012, 11:38:28 pm
+1 to OP, then add fire arrows, poison arrows, explosive arrows, grappling arrows, nuke beacon arrows, and do the same for bolts except make bolts even more awesome. And increase the maximum ammo held by crossbows. And change the crossbow model to a gun. Please.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 14, 2012, 11:54:25 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Malaclypse on March 15, 2012, 12:18:14 am
As a guy mostly playing melee or cav, i do not like this suggestion. It is all about choice, i do not see reason why archers should have this advantage of being able to select type of dmg for themselves according to targets. That is just unfair to all them melee that have to use ONE direction of attack to use different damage type. (even not available to all weapons)

What about say, the Poleaxe, or the Bec? They can switch to secondary mode from Cut to Blunt, Pierce to Blunt. There are plenty of melee weapons like this. One hands that can be used in two-hand mode, throwing weapons that can be used in melee mode. There are many precedents.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 15, 2012, 12:26:45 am
Yes this is maybe possible... In the other hand when we think about SECONDARY MODE, it is clear that the other stack of arrows should have some big disadvantages. Just like many melee weapons do. Poleaxe does less damage and is slower when the blunt option is used, even if it doesn't make sense that the same weapon is slower and does worse damage in blunt mode. It is a balance issue and solved like that..

Same should apply to arrows. You take two stacks of arrows, one is main stack and another is secondary. Always when using the secondary one your bow draws slowly and it does less damage. This is tricky thing to balance. Not that simple but doable with some tweaking.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Cepeshi on March 15, 2012, 05:18:52 am
Yes this is maybe possible... In the other hand when we think about SECONDARY MODE, it is clear that the other stack of arrows should have some big disadvantages. Just like many melee weapons do. Poleaxe does less damage and is slower when the blunt option is used, even if it doesn't make sense that the same weapon is slower and does worse damage in blunt mode. It is a balance issue and solved like that..

Same should apply to arrows. You take two stacks of arrows, one is main stack and another is secondary. Always when using the secondary one your bow draws slowly and it does less damage. This is tricky thing to balance. Not that simple but doable with some tweaking.

What he said. If and when this gets implemented, it should be tweaked somehow.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 15, 2012, 09:23:09 am

Same should apply to arrows. You take two stacks of arrows, one is main stack and another is secondary. Always when using the secondary one your bow draws slowly and it does less damage. This is tricky thing to balance. Not that simple but doable with some tweaking.

Then it won't be usable for longbow  :rolleyes:

Btw, not all weapons receive a big nerf when 2nd mode. Warhammer as far as I know gets just a bit less damage, but gains more speed when you change it to pierce
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Herkkutatti666 on March 15, 2012, 09:29:00 am
+1
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 15, 2012, 10:20:48 am
Its a good idea especially for strat. Being able to swap between +3 Tarta and +3 Bodkins would be a good thing.

+1 to this idea.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 11:44:29 am
Fine.

But only if ALL weapons get alternate modes where they deal all 3 types of damage scaled accordingly.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on March 15, 2012, 01:41:53 pm
Nerf all arrows first, then you can make it happen. :)
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Teeth on March 15, 2012, 03:52:33 pm
Not fond of anything that promotes having two stacks of arrows. I think archery should be changed in a way that having 2 stacks of arrows is quite useless or even impossible. Archers should be able to be good at archery and decent at melee, instead of everyone going pure archery and run whenever danger comes near.

This would require fundamental changes to the mechanics though, but its completely possible. This would be in itself quite a big buff to archery and I'm not sure if that is necesarry.

Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 15, 2012, 06:47:50 pm
Fine.

But only if ALL weapons get alternate modes where they deal all 3 types of damage scaled accordingly.

Fine, but only if you TRIPLE the upkeep for ALL those melee weapons and TRIPLE the slots used. Archers can't do this without having the stacks and paying the upkeep for it.

Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 15, 2012, 07:21:02 pm
Nerf Cav!
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on March 15, 2012, 07:52:34 pm
Yes this is maybe possible... In the other hand when we think about SECONDARY MODE, it is clear that the other stack of arrows should have some big disadvantages. Just like many melee weapons do. Poleaxe does less damage and is slower when the blunt option is used, even if it doesn't make sense that the same weapon is slower and does worse damage in blunt mode. It is a balance issue and solved like that..

Same should apply to arrows. You take two stacks of arrows, one is main stack and another is secondary. Always when using the secondary one your bow draws slowly and it does less damage. This is tricky thing to balance. Not that simple but doable with some tweaking.

I don't think you can compare those two things.

The secondary mode of halberds contains blunt damage, instead of cutting damage, which makes is much more useful against armored targets (which, I would say, is the majority of targets and infantryman has to deal with), and it would get knockdown. So to prevent half of the server lying around on the battlefield due to drastically increased amounts of long, fast and hart hitting blunt weapons, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode.

Concerning arrows things are totally different!

I don't know how the current system works, concerning which of your different quivers counts when, but in the case of archers (and crossbowmen) the weapon and the ammunition are two different items, and you pay with weight, slots and upkeep for your ammunition. If you use better ammunition you pay it with even more upkeep and with fewer shots.

So in my eyes, it doesn't matter at all, if someone is using two big stacks of cheap ammunition, two small stacks of expensive ammunition, or one big stack of cheap and one small stack of expensive ammunition. It is already balanced by the different values for upkeep and shots.

I don't see any reason why you should get punished for switching between the items you have equipped. It's like saying "If a shieldman switches from his sword to his hammer to fight a tincan, the hammer should have lowered damage, because he already has a sword"... eeerrr wut?  :shock:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Fartface on March 15, 2012, 08:05:45 pm
NTY
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on March 15, 2012, 08:13:36 pm
(click to show/hide)

Agreed, it isnt something that really requires balancing imo.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 08:48:55 pm
Fine, but only if you TRIPLE the upkeep for ALL those melee weapons and TRIPLE the slots used. Archers can't do this without having the stacks and paying the upkeep for it.

This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: HELM on March 15, 2012, 08:49:13 pm
+1 to OP, then add fire arrows, poison arrows, explosive arrows, grappling arrows, nuke beacon arrows, and do the same for bolts except make bolts even more awesome. And increase the maximum ammo held by crossbows. And change the crossbow model to a gun. Please.

Give this man a medal  :!:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Farrok on March 15, 2012, 10:47:10 pm
This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using forced to use light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...

its always funny to hear that they can make money with rus+bodkins...i loose money even with horn bow + 1 stack of khergit mostly because i need to repair my arrows all/most rounds...every 3-4 rounds i dont need to pay for it, thoughi think i am quite unlucky by that matter and i know most archers don`t have the problem :D ...i have more upkeep when i choose an decent onehander, but i am doing fine to beat the crap outa tincans with the fighting pick.


armor isnt an upkeep problem...though i´m forced to use light armor (padded jack with straw hat) to be accurate enough, but even with my melee char i dont wear heavy armor. armor is only additional, weapons to kill are the important things and the upkeep of that should be mostly the same for all highend weapons (1h+shield, 2hand, polearm, bow+arrows, 2 stacks of throwing crap, you can safe money when go 1h without shield or bow without arrows :P)




i like the idea because its stupid to only have archer the disadvantage of not choosing the weapon you have equipped...every other class can choose their different weapons...onehander, twohander, thrower, etc.
its stupid to say no shielder you cant use your second shield only when the first one is destroyed, no twohand+thrower you cant throw because your first weapons is the sword...



but my suggestion is: delete archery class(and with that xbow and throwing too) from the game, less problems for twohandspammers because than they can make more (team)kills and the decent melee twohanders don`t fear to get an duel interrupted by flying crap and the forums will get quiet because no one starts a nerfthread about archery anymore.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 15, 2012, 10:51:58 pm
This again...

Dude I pay 1.1K gold for my German GS every 3rd round if I'm lucky. For armor I pay less but it's at least 300 gold per round on average.

Archer using light armor, Rus Bow and two stacks of bodkins makes money. Not much but I know it's possible to make some money using this setup. I know it because I have STF alt and I've managed to ear few grands by playing with this setup. You don't lose money in the long run...
'

Hey, then don't ask for extra shit for your weapon and then complain about the extra upkeep for it. You pay fine for what you have now.

Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Leshma on March 15, 2012, 11:00:35 pm
I wasn't the first one asking for it. I'm fine with what I have atm. Archers do not deserve buff atm. If you buff archers please buff everyone else. That's my point.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on March 16, 2012, 12:01:11 am
Its not really even a buff, melee players can use 2 types of weapons if they want, why cant archers use 2 types of ammo?

Anways, Tenne(the newbie dev) says he will put it forwards to the dev team, we will see what happens..
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on March 16, 2012, 12:33:36 am
Can someone explain me the mechanic behind using different quivers?

Is it that the first slot with quivers counts, and all the other slots just add ammo? So that I can use bodkins as first slot (15 shots), and then fill up everything with ordinary arrows (24 shots), resulting in having 15 + 24 + 24 = 63 bodkin shots, but only paying 5,058 + 161 + 161 = 5380 gold, which means I have 18 shots more than with 3 quivers of bodkins, and pay much less than the needed 15174 gold upkeep?

If it really works like this, I think infantry player should shut the fuck up about buffing archers.

And even if it works differently: they pay upkeep for their arrows, and they suffer from less ammo for good arrows, so it's only FAIR to let them choose ammo. By the way the buff effect would be minimal...  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 16, 2012, 01:58:32 am
Joker, it uses the top slot first. When the bodkins are gone, it drops down to your next stack (my 2nd stack is +3 Arrows). You can't choose or switch them after you spawn. If you shoot all your bodkins, and start shooting arrows, then pick up a bodkin off the ground, it will shoot the one bodkin you picked up, then go back to arrows again.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 16, 2012, 02:42:34 am
I think it'd be a nice feature, I'm an armored archer since today (heavy armor archer is fucking awesome) and I'd not mind this feature what so ever, it also makes sense, throwers are allowed to change their stacks too. :\
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 02:53:42 am
Joker, it uses the top slot first. When the bodkins are gone, it drops down to your next stack (my 2nd stack is +3 Arrows). You can't choose or switch them after you spawn. If you shoot all your bodkins, and start shooting arrows, then pick up a bodkin off the ground, it will shoot the one bodkin you picked up, then go back to arrows again.

Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up :D
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 16, 2012, 03:36:32 am
I don't think you can compare those two things.
Why the hell not?

The secondary mode of halberds contains blunt damage, instead of cutting damage, which makes is much more useful against armored targets
Well isn't that the point when archer takes two different quivers of arrows too? Pierce does more damage to heavy armor and cut makes more to light armored ones. This is the point here??!!!

So to prevent half of the server lying around on the battlefield due to drastically increased amounts of long, fast and hart hitting blunt weapons, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode.

So to prevent half of the server being OP'd on the battlefield by archers due to drastically increased amounts of multiarrowing fast and hard hitting pierce and cut arrows, you have to make the secondary mode inferior to the primary mode


Concerning arrows things are totally different!
No they are not!

I don't see any reason why you should get punished for switching between the items you have equipped. It's like saying "If a shieldman switches from his sword to his hammer to fight a tincan, the hammer should have lowered damage, because he already has a sword"... eeerrr wut?  :shock:
There you are talking about a shielder who switches WEAPONS to fight different opponents. Are you really thinking that you can compare weapon switch to switching arrows? Think about the upkeep aspect of this comparison for example. Shielder changing weapons really isn't that common. I don't do that with my shielder alt, I carry only one 1h weapon. It definetly isn't comparable to changing your arrows because you don't change the WEAPON. You basically change only the damage type you deal with and you get lower upkeep at the same time! I quarantee this would be used by every goddamn archer if this is implemented without any disadvantages. Don't try to trick me with your Konfutse posts Joker...

EDIT: and when I said "bow should draw slowly and make less damage" I meant "bow should draw slower and make less damage". Nothing too big nerf, but definetly something small to prevent overusage and OP:ness.

I don't really see many guys using the polearm secondary modes or any other melee secondary modes besides 1h/2h ones. Also when you have shot all the arrows from your main stack, you should be able to shoot the other stack normally, because you have only one mode usable at that point and it would be just like it is now in that situation. Just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on March 16, 2012, 03:41:09 am
Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up :D

Which is silly, and it's been like that for ages. Should've been fixed ages ago (is it even possible to fix?)
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 16, 2012, 04:16:11 am
At one brief period in c-RPG history that glitch vanished... Not sure what brought it back.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 16, 2012, 04:39:11 am
Actually it will throw away all your arrows and you will stay only with the one you picked up :D

Wrong.

You need to pay attention to the arrows that you stack, and the arrows you are picking up.

There are 16 different types of arrows. Normal, +1, +2, and +3 for each of the 4 types of arrows.

You only have 4 slots. If you don't carry a melee weapon you can only, at most, carry 3 of the 16 types. If you do use a melee weapon, you can only carry, at most, 2 of the 16 types of arrows.

If you pick up any of the different types than you currently are carrying, you will drop whatever you have in your 4th slot. If it is your melee weapon, you will drop that. If it is a full stack of a different type of arrows (say 15 bodkins), you will drop that stack of 15 in favor of the type that you just picked up.

So, if you use MW bodkins, don't pick up regular bodkins if you still have a bunch of arrows left over.

It isn't that the game is dropping your existing arrows, it is that you are deciding to gather a different type than you brought. Since we have slot limits, the game has to choose something for you to drop.

Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 07:49:07 am
Wrong.

You need to pay attention to the arrows that you stack, and the arrows you are picking up.

There are 16 different types of arrows. Normal, +1, +2, and +3 for each of the 4 types of arrows.

You only have 4 slots. If you don't carry a melee weapon you can only, at most, carry 3 of the 16 types. If you do use a melee weapon, you can only carry, at most, 2 of the 16 types of arrows.

If you pick up any of the different types than you currently are carrying, you will drop whatever you have in your 4th slot. If it is your melee weapon, you will drop that. If it is a full stack of a different type of arrows (say 15 bodkins), you will drop that stack of 15 in favor of the type that you just picked up.

So, if you use MW bodkins, don't pick up regular bodkins if you still have a bunch of arrows left over.

It isn't that the game is dropping your existing arrows, it is that you are deciding to gather a different type than you brought. Since we have slot limits, the game has to choose something for you to drop.

Sometimes it still happens, even when you take the right arrows....stop playing mr teacher all the time will you? I know how it should work

Btw, it was actually meant as a joke if you didn't see the   -->  :D  <--
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on March 16, 2012, 09:53:32 am
There you are talking about a shielder who switches WEAPONS to fight different opponents. Are you really thinking that you can compare weapon switch to switching arrows? Think about the upkeep aspect of this comparison for example. Shielder changing weapons really isn't that common. I don't do that with my shielder alt, I carry only one 1h weapon. It definetly isn't comparable to changing your arrows because you don't change the WEAPON. You basically change only the damage type you deal with and you get lower upkeep at the same time! I quarantee this would be used by every goddamn archer if this is implemented without any disadvantages. Don't try to trick me with your Konfutse posts Joker...

Sorry, but I am still not convinced.

It's not about changing WEAPONS or whatever (shields, armours), it's about changing the ITEMS you use in different slots. You are always free to change between different shields, throwing weapons and melee weapons.

And if you would have two different melee weapons, who have the same length and speed, but one deals cutting damage and the other blunt damage, you would again only be switching damage type, like you are claiming in your post. But you are not. You are switching items. Exactly like arrows. The fact that only few to none players have two one handed weapons doesn't make my example invalid. If you don't like the example with weapons, take two shields. You are allowed to switch them, you don't need to wait until the first is broken to use the second one.

Changing arrow types: two different items, different upkeep according to the effectivity of the item
Changing halberd damage: one single item with two different damage modes. Both modes must be of euqal effectivity concerning the upkeep, and as blunt damage is the "better" mode with more advantages, the damage and speed got lowered.

It's so easy.

Or please tell me what happens to the upkeep aspect of balancing when using different arrows?

You just see that it's done that way with one weapon, and you assume that it must be done the same way with another weapon, completely ignoring that the items are different.

You can also just tell me where it is OP to be able to switch freely between the items you pay upkeep for. Having two stacks of arrows is not OP, but having one stack arrows and one bodkins makes the bodkins OP?  :shock:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 10:38:59 am
Joker, the thing is a melee char can equip maybe a sword and an pickaxe. Thus he has cut and pierce damage and can decide, according to the armour of his next target whether he is going to use the pierce or the cut weapon.

An archer can equip two stacks of arrows, one bodkins and one tatar for example. Means one with pierce and one with cut, just like the melee guy. What the archer can't do is switch between his cut and his pierce arrows. He has to shoot his first quiver before he can use the second one. To be useful you would have to aim for all the heavy targets first, until your bodkins are gone and then aim for the light targets when you have only tatars left. This means you can never adapt to the situation. So you either ignore the incoming light guy cause it's a waste to shoot bodkins into him or you just waste all the pierce arrows for him.

For someone with almost no armour you might need 2 bodkin arrows but only 1 cut arrow due to the armour that effects the dmg etc. That's why some people have 2 weapons. If the guy has plate they switch to pierce/blunt cause cut is more or less a bad decision.
Archers would love to do that, too.
We would pay for both stacks of arrows, once the price for bodkins and once the price for tatars when repair ticks in. But we could choose when to use which kind of arrow


So maybe the right explanation is that archers want to wear 2 different items, namely 2 different quivers and they want to change their quivers just like others change their weapon. It's not about putting in one quiver of bodkins and then switching that one to cut or whatever. You would have to equip 2 different types of arrows.

Clearer now?^^
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on March 16, 2012, 11:40:02 am
Archer can already do this. Get a military sickle or a pickaxe with your cut arrows or a fighting axe, langes or hand axe with your bodkins. Remove runchers, use your melee weapon of opposite damage type :lol:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 11:43:17 am
Archer can already do this. Get a military sickle or a pickaxe with your cut arrows or a fighting axe, langes or hand axe with your bodkins. Remove runchers, use your melee weapon of opposite damage type :lol:

Make longbow oneslot and I'd love to do that. All I have is my little hammer (which is 0slot and which I use instead of pickaxe cause I had it loomed before that fucking pick became 0slot) which is due to the short range hard to fight with, but still, I fight mostly instead of running away.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: justme on March 16, 2012, 11:55:15 am
for secondary mode, i would love to see suicide potion :)
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Son Of Odin on March 16, 2012, 12:16:04 pm
My point was that onehander carrying 2x1H weapons is no way a viable option. By carrying 2 different damage type "cheapos" you pay upkeep that would make up 1 weapon which would do the excact same job, even better no matter what the damage type is. Not to mention that 2 weapons tend to be heavier than one weapon. Carrying 2 stacks of different arrows on the other hand is highly viable option. I don't see why anyone would take only one type of them anymore because it is only profit all the way. Other arrows than bodkins = lower upkeep = profit. Able to use cut damage on peasants = profit. Bodkins when that evil platemonster harrasses you = profit.

2 shields? Are you out of your mind??!! Do you have a slightest idea how heavy they are to carry around?

I stop this... I have said what I think about the matter and I have nothing else to add. I just don't agree with you this time Joker :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Torost on March 16, 2012, 12:19:54 pm
Instead of secondary mode, it should swap arrows like you swap weapons.
Its better to compare it to throwing, where you can change from a pack of throwing knives to a pack of wardarts.

I suspect the hardship of scavenging arrows is keept in the broken state intentionally.
There is really no need for 4 types of arrows, it only screws up scavenging.

Both of these issues are faults/bugs in the game.. and should be corrected if possible.

You do not make money with rusbow and 2xbodkins.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 12:32:21 pm

You do not make money with rusbow and 2xbodkins.

You do ;)


Btw, where is the prob with 4 kinds of arrows? some have more dmg but less ammo and the other way around
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on March 16, 2012, 12:39:59 pm
Funny how some people state that you don't make money as an archer. I've made just above 70 k from being 2.5 million away from 31 to being 300 k away from it.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 16, 2012, 01:06:21 pm
You can make money, even with longbow and 2 stacks of bodkins, but it requires you have multi from time to time^^  otherwise you'll run out of money in a short time
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 16, 2012, 01:23:23 pm
I make money with a stack of normal arrows, a somewhat expensive twohander, and a tatar bow. + a shitload of heavy armor.
If archers have a hard time making money they should just use normal arrows.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Zlisch_The_Butcher on March 16, 2012, 01:27:58 pm
Also, I'm pretty sure now that I think about it, switching arrow type is already possible.
1. drop bow.
2. pick up bow.
3. pick up the two arrow stacks in the correct order.
4. I'm a fucking genius, archers, pay me.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on March 16, 2012, 01:38:02 pm
"To my knowledge you cannot use 2 seperate stacks of arrows properly. If we were to add a secondary mode function to be able to switch between quivers though.. For example, you are cruising around with one stack of 20 barbed arrows shooting peasants, but then you see a plate armoured guy. Oh well no problem. Press 'x' and switch to your stack of 15 bodkins. I think it would greatly add variety to archery and allow for more tactical gameplay from an archers point of view."

Great idea imo. Please add a poll to this suggestion!
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 16, 2012, 04:18:30 pm
Sometimes it still happens, even when you take the right arrows....stop playing mr teacher all the time will you? I know how it should work

Btw, it was actually meant as a joke if you didn't see the   -->  :D  <--

Then you aren't paying attention  :wink: It never happens to me.

Joking aside, many people really had no clue how it works. I'll always provide the lamp of enlightenment anywhere that I perceive the darkness of ignorance. Don't think I do this just for you.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on March 16, 2012, 05:17:44 pm
Poll added.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on March 16, 2012, 06:46:02 pm
My point was that onehander carrying 2x1H weapons is no way a viable option. By carrying 2 different damage type "cheapos" you pay upkeep that would make up 1 weapon which would do the excact same job, even better no matter what the damage type is. Not to mention that 2 weapons tend to be heavier than one weapon. Carrying 2 stacks of different arrows on the other hand is highly viable option. I don't see why anyone would take only one type of them anymore because it is only profit all the way. Other arrows than bodkins = lower upkeep = profit. Able to use cut damage on peasants = profit. Bodkins when that evil platemonster harrasses you = profit.

2 shields? Are you out of your mind??!! Do you have a slightest idea how heavy they are to carry around?

I stop this... I have said what I think about the matter and I have nothing else to add. I just don't agree with you this time Joker :mrgreen:

In this case it is completely irrelevant how viable something is. Often enough I see turtles with two shields. If you don't like the examples of sword+hammer or 2 shields, then how about the example of throwing axes (cutting dmg) and throwing spears (pierce damage)? People DO use different throwing weapons. If you do so, should the second item be nerfed a bit? Or should you be forced to first throw all weapons of one kind and then all weapons of the second kind? Or should you be allowed to switch weapons freely, as you pay with slots and upkeep for all of them? I think latter.

But I think everything boils down to the following question: why should it be OP if an archer can switch freely between his arrows? He wastes slots on them (his bow on its own does nothing, it needs arrows to work. It's not like you need to buy and axe head and a hammer head for your halberd to have it work), they have additional weight, and he pays upkeep for them.

It doesn't matter for you, if you are shot by an archer who has ONLY bodkins, or an archer who uses bodkins BESIDES ordinary arrows. You receive a bodkin. If you complain that you have caught a bodkin because the game mechanics don't force the archer to use up his ordinary arrows first, then all I can say the complaining player is a miserable, unfair cunt.

Not being able to switch ammo is NO part of gameplay or balancing, and thus removing this restriction does NOT require any balancing.

Sorry that I take up the discussion again, although Son of Odin already stopped it, but you set up the voting now, with the option to nerf the secondary arrows, and I think this option makes the poll useless, because it's bullshit. Read my last posts here and then please remove the last option. Keep it just "yes" and "no".
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Shinobi on March 20, 2012, 03:08:16 pm
Just adding If this is implemented you should be able to switch bolts too.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 20, 2012, 03:13:05 pm
Then you aren't paying attention  :wink: It never happens to me.

Joking aside, many people really had no clue how it works. I'll always provide the lamp of enlightenment anywhere that I perceive the darkness of ignorance. Don't think I do this just for you.  :mrgreen:

You do it for others, too?? :O

Now talk to the hand mister -.-
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: BlueKnight on March 20, 2012, 04:57:59 pm
I am afraid that the secondary mode could slightly break balance. You know, archery doesn't have to be very realistic. I just want it to be balanced and archers should prepare their priorities. If an archer wants to shoot heavy infantry, he should take bodkins. If he wants to take tatar arrows, he had better shoot horses and light/med infantry.

If archers were too multifunctional, it could break the balance.

Just my opinion. There were also topics about 2 different attacks with a spear while holding a shield. It could be done as well.
I like the idea, but as I said before, I am afraid it would make balancing game harder.

BlueKnight
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on March 20, 2012, 11:01:28 pm
Alright, here is what I consider to be an acceptable secondary mode for bows.

Enable Secondary Mode - You can't shoot your bow, but you can block as if it were a polearm.
Switch to Primary Mode - You can shoot, but you can't block with it.

Allowing archers to switch between arrow types without any other changes would be imbalancing and force us to go back to square one. I would rather not see what the Devs would come up with to counter this.

Just load bodkins in slot 1 and cut arrows in slot 2. Aim for armor until you are down to cut. By time you get to the cut arrows, players are bleeding from several cuts and arrows and bolts and it doesn't take a bodkin to finish them anyhow.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on March 20, 2012, 11:54:35 pm
I think you all are overestimating the effect switchable ammo would have on the game.

They pay for their ammo, same as for every other item everyone else uses, so they should be able to switch freely between them, like everyone else does.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on March 20, 2012, 11:56:38 pm
I think you all are overestimating the effect switchable ammo would have on the game.

They pay for their ammo, same as for every other item everyone else uses, so they should be able to switch freely between them, like everyone else does.

Jup.

Melee guys can switch through their weapons and throwers cans witch to what they want to throw (cut or pierce and nowadays also blunt) but archers and crossbowers can't :/
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Branches on May 16, 2012, 01:17:45 pm
THIS is a FANTASTIC idea and just totally makes sense!

-It would also be cool if both quivers showed on your person. like if you had two one went on your upper back the other on your lower back. I believe you can do this in native and it looks sick. but that's a different topic...
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Dalfador on May 16, 2012, 11:46:28 pm
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Godwin on May 17, 2012, 10:57:24 am
Very good idea! +1
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on May 22, 2012, 08:38:33 am
In terms of making money as an archer:

Before I joined a clan, with medium armour, 2 stacks of Bodkins and one of the heavier bows I've made the experience that I lose money. Playing in a clan as an archer usually makes your average multiplicator higher as you play organized and you have some infantry that really helps you, other archers and xbows when attacked in melee or sometimes you even get a shield wall. Consequently, it is logical that some say they lose money and others do not.

However, money is not the main reason why archers should be able to change the quiver. It's rather the tactical issue I can only repeat: Archers should be allowed to bring piece and blunt damage arrows like the throwers may change their weapons and infantry may bring more then one weapon or even activate the secondary mode. This is a question of fairness; make the same right for everyone.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Christo on May 22, 2012, 09:01:37 am

However, money is not the main reason why archers should be able to change the quiver. It's rather the tactical issue I can only repeat: Archers should be allowed to bring piece and blunt damage arrows like the throwers may change their weapons and infantry may bring more then one weapon or even activate the secondary mode. This is a question of fairness; make the same right for everyone.

Interesting point, but..

Comparing archery to throwing, and infantry just cancels your own point out.
Saying "the same right for everyone", while thrower's aim is quite random and you have to be lucky, or go really close and be lucky again, and infantry has to come close to you while you can run. Where is the so called equality, in that? If archers would get better melee capabilities, and wouldn't run all the time, then we can start talking about "equality".

This would just remove a relatively minor "drawback" of archery, but your "question of fairness" point is all messed up.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gomer on May 22, 2012, 09:05:10 am
This is a question of fairness; make the same right for everyone.
A thrower is limited by range. Melee is limited by... Range. You are not limited by range. There is you'r advantage you need no more. Wana be diverse like a thrower be a thrower. If not suck it up sally cause... Don't take this personally but Go fuck yourself
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on May 22, 2012, 09:16:16 am
(click to show/hide)

A. Range between the archer and the enemy
    a. Archer is using Bodkin Arrows
        P1. Archer is effective against polearm infantry (no shield), same for the Bodkins
        P2. Archer is effective against twohand infantry (no shield), same for the Bodkins
        P3. Archer is effective against light cavalry (shooting the horse), the Bodkins are not
        P4. Archer is effective against other archers, the Bodkins are not (due to light armor and low ammo)
        N1. Archer is neither effective nor ineffectiv against throwers (because it depends on shield/no shield), the Bodkins are neutral (depends on the armor)
        C1. Archer is ineffective against heavy cavalry (high armor and speed, I tested it with Simon on a duel server), the Bodkins are not
        C2. Archer is ineffective against crossbowman (the crossbow is much more accurate and it's rather a far range missile weapon while the bow is a medium range distance weapon; throwing weapons are low range distance weapons), the Bodkins are neutral (depends on the armor)
        C3. Archer is ineffective against shielders, same for Bodkins (due to low ammo, you really do not want to waste them on a shield wall)
    b. Archer is using Tatar Arrows
        P1. Archer is effective against polearm infantry, not the Tatars
        P2. Archer is effective against twohand infantry, not the Tatars
        P3. Archer is effective against light cavalry, same for the Tatars
        P4. Archer is effective against other archers, same for the Tatars
        N1. Archer is neither effective nor ineffectiv against throwers, the Tatars are neutral (depends on the armor)
        C1. Archer is ineffective against heavy cavalry, same for the Tatars
        C2. Archer is ineffective against crossbowman, the Tatars are neutral (depends on the armor)
        C3. Archer is ineffective against shielders, not the Tatars

B. Low distance between the archer and the enemy/ Crossbow not reloaded in an open field
        P1. Archer is effective against infantry with low athletics
        P2. Archer is effective against crossbowmen
        N2. Archer is neither effective nor ineffective against throwers
        C1. Archer is ineffective against light cavalry
        C2. Archer is ineffective against heavy cavalry
        C3. Archer is ineffective against fast infantry

This should be complete (despite the HA, excuse that). At the moment, most archers use 2 stacks of Bodkins due to the piece damage. I come to the conclusion that allowing them to switch to tatars by pressing 'x' etc. would make them more effective against light cavalry over far distances (ride some fast zigzag) and against other archers in general. This means, allowing them to change the stacks of arrows they are currently using encourages them to fight each other and rather spares the infantry from archer fire.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gomer on May 22, 2012, 09:24:11 am
Give me some time, let me answer this later. You will get your answer why changing the quivers is fair. Just give me some time, I will edit this post. Must work now.
No worries. I actually support the idea of changing quivers if there is a nerf to dmg done if using multiple quivers but you can't have the best of both worlds little to OP
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Joker86 on May 22, 2012, 10:07:48 am
Interesting point, but..

Comparing archery to throwing, and infantry just cancels your own point out.
Saying "the same right for everyone", while thrower's aim is quite random and you have to be lucky, or go really close and be lucky again, and infantry has to come close to you while you can run. Where is the so called equality, in that? If archers would get better melee capabilities, and wouldn't run all the time, then we can start talking about "equality".

This would just remove a relatively minor "drawback" of archery, but your "question of fairness" point is all messed up.

A thrower is limited by range. Melee is limited by... Range. You are not limited by range. There is you'r advantage you need no more. Wana be diverse like a thrower be a thrower. If not suck it up sally cause... Don't take this personally but Go fuck yourself

You can't argue like that.

You can't pick a random strength of a class and use it as an argument against anything that you consider a buff. Throwers can shoot much faster and are far more mobile, and they can use a shield as protection.

And now? We are at the same point like before.

Fact is: assuming that the developers did their job well, all classes have the same strength. When you get hit by a certain ranged weapon you can't tell if the attacker has ONLY item slots filled with the ammunition type you got hit with or if he has different ammo as well, and you can't tell if it is his first, second, thrid or fourth slot. Tatar arrows or bodkins, throwing axes or jarids. All of them should be balanced equally, and nothing changes in particular, especially for the victim.

If the developers are really good, they considered the fact that you can't switch arrow types and made them a little bit cheaper, but that's already everything you can do about it. If they did so, and they make ammo types changeable, then I would say make arrows a little bit more expensive, again. That's all. And again, you won't feel any difference of this change, as it only afflicts the archer himself.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on May 23, 2012, 04:26:09 pm
Just make archers a bit more effective against other archers by allowing them to change the quivers. Most archers will switch to 1 quiver of Bodkins and 1 of Tatars. The great majority of the non-archers wears heavy armor, and they can be happy about archers having only 17 instead of 34 of those dangerous Bodkins. Why do you even think about nerfing the secondary-mode-quiver? Those arrows will be mainly used against other archers and all are content :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Miwiw on May 23, 2012, 06:43:14 pm
Ye, it's always a shame seeing my bodkin arrow hit a non-amored guy just because he was in my view. Not like I wouldn't shoot him because of that then. Always could have used that arrow for a more armoured guy.  :mad:

So +1 this suggestion. It already is +50, everyone except for Tzar like this thread!  :D
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on May 23, 2012, 07:28:15 pm
92.8% want the secondary mode atm. All we need is a developer saying us that he implements this :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Tavuk_Bey on May 23, 2012, 08:56:36 pm
i want a bayonet for my arbalest and also a 40mm n00bt00b attachment
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rumblood on May 24, 2012, 10:01:26 pm
I want to trap someone's head with my bow and string and pull them off their horse. You can get +1 in Clothesline for every 3 Agility.
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Rico on June 03, 2012, 03:10:58 pm
stop trolling. bump
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 11, 2012, 04:08:35 pm
57 UPVOTES!!!! DO YOU HAVE NO COMPASSION DEVS?!?!?!?
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on August 11, 2012, 04:11:52 pm
57 UPVOTES!!!! DO YOU HAVE NO COMPASSION DEVS?!?!?!?

Hm, it suddenly fell down to 56, I.E not good enough. How'd that happen?
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Shaksie on August 11, 2012, 04:15:01 pm
A good idea but I also believe you should be able to hit with a bow :).
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Miwiw on August 11, 2012, 04:17:35 pm
Hm, it suddenly fell down to 56, I.E not good enough. How'd that happen?


Are you scared of Archers using arrows according to your armor? :D
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 11, 2012, 04:19:14 pm
You just lost my respect and love gurnisson....
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Gurnisson on August 11, 2012, 04:23:16 pm

Are you scared of Archers using arrows according to your armor? :D

Just trolling my love, Muffin.

You just lost my respect and love gurnisson....

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on August 15, 2012, 02:49:04 pm

(click to show/hide)

Oh you do know how to spoil a girl!   :oops:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on August 16, 2012, 11:11:42 am
Sounds good. Shielder can put away his shield when axe guy attacks which makes sense somehow. Archer can reach for second quiver.
Approved  :mrgreen:

Also add a 0-Slot Knucklering for boxing! Like stones but faster and with 1h proficiency
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Guray on June 19, 2014, 01:23:05 pm
please add this
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: matt2507 on June 19, 2014, 03:54:51 pm
Voted yes but...

I'm watching the scripts again and again and, even with all the will of Calradia, i do not see how that would be possible.
The secondary mode was not made to change weapon or item. It only works to alter an item with other stats that you had provided.

Exemple with native throwing axes:
Quote
["throwing_axes", "Throwing Axes", [("throwing_axe_a",0)], itp_type_thrown |itp_merchandise|itp_primary|itp_next_item_as_melee,itcf_throw_axe,
490, weight(5)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(98) | shoot_speed(18) | thrust_damage(39,cut)|max_ammo(4)|weapon_length(53),imodbits_thrown_minus_heavy ],

["throwing_axes_melee", "Throwing Axe", [("throwing_axe_a",0)], itp_type_one_handed_wpn |itp_primary|itp_bonus_against_shield,itc_scimitar,
490, weight(1)|difficulty(3)|spd_rtng(98) | swing_damage(29,cut)|weapon_length(53),imodbits_thrown_minus_heavy ],

In the first code line, you have the throwing axe. With it, you have the flag "itp_next_item_as_melee"
This flag mean that the next item in the script will be the item that correspond to secondary mode.

This would mean that each arrows would have his secondary mode but it would not be possible to choose another type of existing arrow.
For example, if you have tatar arrows, it will not be possible to switch to bodkin. You can only switch to a secondary mode for tatar arrows.

It is simply impossible to set this flag with another weapon in secondary mode.

Edit: fack, didn't see it was a heavy necro...
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 20, 2014, 01:40:55 pm
What i would like to see is that they would have more melee abilities as well. Like i suggested it before make longsword, 2 handed sword, heavy bastard sword. One slot again. Instead of give them this silly one handers. To Draw a bow you need physically strength. And in this game it is the opposite thing. For they dont have it just because 2 handed guys dont want to accept the fact that this guys (archer) would have bigger muscle when this would be a realistic game. And not 2 handed would be the heavy slashing guys. And that's the only post what makes actually sense. In maybe bringing up an negative point of the suggestion.       

I like the idea of switching arrows. It is a good thread.

What would like to have would be a new damaging system. When you would be far enough away with a Milanese plate somebody could do any damage to you until you are not reached the 40 meter killing zone. Arrows would bounce of and also plop up from your Armour when you are not in range. And for the 1000 time this don't count for chain mail. And low tear Armour. And there you have the things what are really wrong. What need to be fixed maybe in the next game of this format.

The Pros of archery laying in they re mobility. That they have to keep up to the melees so that they not get slaughter by Cav. You can not say ohhh i get killed by 1 hand cav or polearm CAV again!!!! you have to keep up with melees when you are an foot archer. Another thing is that must of the melees dont care about archers they just let them die. Not seeing the point that it is maybe important that they survive to be victories. This is why i think team abilities should be still in the game as well. For me the with the current weaponmaster system shielders are in a big disadvantage when you fight against a 2 hander. And on the other end there is nobody who wants to do tactics. So that maybe shielders could do tactics in a melee combat. So that you get people to play professional again. It is really awful. So it took me a long time to finally find a usefull build for shielder again. Most of the people just switch to an insane amount of weaponmaster. And make theyre spam builds with they re small onehanders. What is what i personally not really like. also the returded 1 hand step. it is insane what damage you can make on a 2 handed guy. with a thrust. So i think this needs a bit re-balancing. When you really want to complain about that this suggestion (thread) and that it will ruin the current balancing you are wrong. What is wrong are the things what i just wrote down here.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Simon_Templar on June 20, 2014, 01:41:21 pm
And this time only in 1 post :D

Oh shit i did it again.  :wink:
Title: Re: Secondary mode for bows
Post by: Sharpe on June 21, 2014, 02:37:34 pm
This is like the Lederhosen and Beer thread, good suggestion made 2 years ago; and hasnt been implemented since. With Zagibu gone no one will implement it more then likely.