cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: dodnet on March 11, 2012, 02:43:38 pm

Title: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: dodnet on March 11, 2012, 02:43:38 pm
Its not fun anymore if one clan (Byzantinum) with 10 players goes into EU1 and balance puts them ALL into the same team leaving the other team on constant x1 on every map. Its not their fault ofc, its the broken balance.

The sad thing is if some other wolpers are on a server my clan almost ever gets split up between the teams even if there are only 3 or 4 of us around. Why the fuck does a large mass of a clan then gets balanced into only one team?

Fix this shit. There have been so many suggestions already on how to (maybe) do it.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Logen on March 11, 2012, 02:45:31 pm
Their banner is just better than yours.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Dezilagel on March 11, 2012, 02:53:55 pm
Hoe to beat Byzantium for dummies: (4 easy steps!)


1. Go into their ts

2. Call Chase a frenchman

3. Blame it on Zotte

4. Watch chaos unfold
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: _Tak_ on March 11, 2012, 03:08:01 pm
Don't think so, even if there are 10 Byzantium there is still chance for another team to win .if not then it is because the other team is full of noob players. Don't forget there are other factions out there to fight against Byzantium. If some of the byzantium top the scoreboard, there are chances for him to switch to another team. So no troubles.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 11, 2012, 03:32:39 pm
One solution would be to pick thier banner and roll in x5. Sadly I can't do that.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Memento_Mori on March 11, 2012, 03:47:53 pm
NO YOU CANT TAKE MY BROKEN BALANCE AWAY I LOVE MY X5


Pretty much if I see a clan rolling a server I either play for a bit and rage quit, stack their banner and laugh at the pub players sitting on x1, or I leave without even spawning & go play a different game.

It's not fun being on the team that rolls all the pubbies, and it's not fun on the team being rolled by coordinated clans.

My solution would be to turn banner balance off on official servers, if clans want to play together they can do so on their own servers without disrupting normal factionless players.

The main problem is that auto balance thinks 2 lvl 15-20s is equal to a lvl 30+ clannie in decked out loomed outfit so it will simply put all the pubs on one team vs the mega clan and guess who wins... as the clan of lvl 30s cuts through waves of lowbies and pub players.

At least that's my opinion on banner unbalance.
Don't think so, even if there are 10 Byzantium there is still chance for another team to win .if not then it is because the other team is full of noob players. Don't forget there are other factions out there to fight against Byzantium. If some of the byzantium top the scoreboard, there are chances for him to switch to another team. So no troubles.

& it's comments like this that make me question the intelligence of our little community. It is because the other team is full of noob players? Well do you know WHY it's full of 'noob players'? because of AUTO BALANCE oh there's other factions to fight against the clan stacking, of course why didn't I think of that solution what a perfect idea we can fight clan stacking with clan stacking, brilliant idea.

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: _Tak_ on March 11, 2012, 03:55:05 pm
My solution would be to turn banner balance off on official servers, if clans want to play together they can do so on their own servers without disrupting normal factionless players.


There are Offical servers that banner balance is off. For example EU_4. Play there if you want no more banner balance
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Memento_Mori on March 11, 2012, 03:57:30 pm
There are Offical servers that banner balance is off. For example EU_4. Play there if you want no more banner balance

Oh really we have ONE official server with banner balance off and it's only EU...

Here's another brilliant solution maybe one that could even top AlexTheDragon's, go play a different game.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Memento_Mori on March 11, 2012, 04:03:05 pm
Pretty much this. Or go and play your beloved "other" games.

I would expect a comment like this from a lover of the banner balance system. Especially after a nice night of pushing lowbies and nubs around in a faction that doesn't even play strat. (where you would actually fight purely other clans)

 :lol:

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 11, 2012, 04:04:53 pm
There are Offical servers that banner balance is off. For example EU_4. Play there if you want no more banner balance

This AND the fact that if you are being squashed repeatedly by the same players: Why dont you watch and learn?

Sun Tzu says that you must know YOUR ENEMY and yourself. If he was talking shit, we wouldnt still read his work 3000 years later. Crying will not improve your gameplay. Go play and stop making the epeens of tryhards grow by complaining that you cant beat them.

Everything has a counter in this  game, like roshambo (also 3000 years old and chinese). unfortunatly sometimes that counter is playing better...
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 11, 2012, 04:17:20 pm
So I really dont see the problem here.

Problem is: his bottom is sore and he has to talc
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Tzar on March 11, 2012, 04:33:16 pm
On a serious note: Noobs and Lowbies (as you call clanless players, If I assume it correctly) are free to choose the banner they want and ride on byzantium x5, and plenty of them do this.
So I really dont see the problem here.

This is the only time banner balance becomes a problem when everyone an their mother start to group up an start steamrolling peeps :lol:

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Rumblood on March 11, 2012, 06:40:32 pm
I would like to see what the Dev's current formula is on the server for auto-balance. It should be at least Level considerations first, then banner balance. I'm also thinking that IF Auto-Balance MUST SPLIT A BANNER, then it be the largest banner.

What's worse? The guy in his clan's teamspeak getting taunted (or ignored) while on the other team and he chats up his buddies? Or a couple players who aren't into the clan thing, don't have a TS server setup and just want to hang together who find themselves put on a different team every other round because of "auto-balance"?

Baloney and I picked a couple alts the last couple days to fart around with and chose a banner nobody else uses. I was fairly surprised to find that we almost never finished a map on the same team. There was only two of us, so if it chose one of us to switch, it should have moved both. Since those alts were under lvl 20, it isn't like much "balancing" was happening.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 11, 2012, 06:45:52 pm
It´s fun to push lowbies and nubs around, ya know. And I even do it in the morning, noon, afternoon and evening, not only the night, thats even more fun!

On a serious note: Noobs and Lowbies (as you call clanless players, If I assume it correctly) are free to choose the banner they want and ride on byzantium x5, and plenty of them do this.
So I really dont see the problem here.

Yeah, that's what we noobs and lowbies do. I did it as well until Redgrave said I should stop. So no more shoggie x5 rapetrain for me :(
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lichen on March 11, 2012, 08:15:52 pm
If things were perfectly balanced people would mostly get x1 and x2 multipliers as an indicator of well matched teams. So actually the way xp is given now imbalance is desirable, except if you end up on the losing team of course. But if better balance is really desired then it should also be based on gen level as that implies a player who has experience. Also alts should use the gen level of your main as well.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 11, 2012, 09:21:48 pm
Kills also affect balance.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Fartface on March 11, 2012, 10:41:43 pm
Think i am going to try dezilagels plan .
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 04:17:47 pm
As someone who regularly enjoys rolling public servers with a bunch of clanmates in the same team speak, I would 100% support removing banner balance.

If you want to play with your faction set up a scrimmage using the battle groups, play in strategus, or go play in a private server.

Public servers (no matter what game you're playing) should never be a place to "pub stomp".  The teams should be balanced by class and player levels, possibly taking into account K:D ratio in the current map, or from a previous map.

Would be nice to see banner balance turned off.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 12, 2012, 04:20:05 pm
One solution would be to pick thier banner and roll in x5. Sadly I can't do that.

actually, i think i saw some bashibazouk and some other bigger clans have one or two members that started using our banner :)

I would rather chadz implement PIN balance. Enter a pin, get put with people that have the same pin.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 12, 2012, 04:23:57 pm
This. Balance by banner is not ideal.

exactly, also some of our members have been complaining that they get switched to the other team cause so MANY people use our banner.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Memento_Mori on March 12, 2012, 04:34:39 pm
Problem is: his bottom is sore and he has to talc

Another idiot who can't be assed to read.

So I won't even be assed to explain.

But it is spelled TALK not TALC, comb your beard & go away.


Anyone who's played in Clans, Clanless banner leecher, or the wanderer knows that 'banner stack balance' is silly & easily abused.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 12, 2012, 05:00:39 pm
As someone who regularly enjoys rolling public servers with a bunch of clanmates in the same team speak, I would 100% support removing banner balance.

If you want to play with your faction set up a scrimmage using the battle groups, play in strategus, or go play in a private server.

Public servers (no matter what game you're playing) should never be a place to "pub stomp".  The teams should be balanced by class and player levels, possibly taking into account K:D ratio in the current map, or from a previous map.

Would be nice to see banner balance turned off.


I agree in general but you know what? It's not gonna happen. It makes perfect sense, it's right thing to do but.. people enjoy roflstomping lowbies, noobs and clanless people. Without it, many of them wouldn't play. It's the same thing as this:

(click to show/hide)

Bottom line is, people want to play nice, to think how they are noble but in reality most people have really crappy personality and would sell their own mothers if they had to. That's why unjustice exists, because people are wired that way. Banner balance is unjust to casual players but those who have the power, people who play in organized clans don't really give a shit about it. Pigs are there to be slaughtered and eaten, lowbies and casuals in cRPG serve the same purpose.

I'm clanless player and I enjoy playing against fresh clans, because they lack coordination and experience so I can kick their asses on my own. Sadly, even the dumbest player eventually realize how game works so I'm unable to use mind tricks on them anymore. Games are limited and after a year or so, everyone is skilled to some point and that's when external factors kick in, like quality or connection and gaming equipment. Online gaming is fair only in South Korea and that's because they mostly play in Gaming Cafe's and everyone has the same ping which goes up to 2 :D
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 12, 2012, 05:12:15 pm
Another idiot who can't be assed to read.

So I won't even be assed to explain.

But it is spelled TALK not TALC, comb your beard & go away.


Anyone who's played in Clans, Clanless banner leecher, or the wanderer knows that 'banner stack balance' is silly & easily abused.


AHAHAHAHAH NO: Talk is using words to express yourself, Talc is what you put on your bottom when it hurts you MORON AHAHAHAHAH YOU MADE MY DAY!!! OMFG I CANT STOP LAUGHING
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Captain_Georges on March 12, 2012, 05:46:08 pm
Byzantirape
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Teeth on March 12, 2012, 05:51:09 pm
I'm also thinking that IF Auto-Balance MUST SPLIT A BANNER, then it be the largest banner.
Yeah would be fantastic. Byzantium would never be able to play as a team anymore, ever. Cause in addition to about ten Byzantiums on during primetime, there are about 15 extra Byzantium banners on too. The amount of people and clans also using our banner is getting pretty retarded.

Time for the removal of banner balance and do a PIN system instead. Everyone should be able to pick a 3 digit pin on his character page, and banner balance should see people with the same pin as a group. Clan leaders can distribute the same pin under their members and clans will be able to play together. But without balance completely screwing up due to 40 player banner groups.

Actually surprised how Byzantium is able to roll a good multi due to player numbers and good players consistently. Are we the only clan that pretty much plays EU_1 only? We really don't have that much members.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gnjus on March 12, 2012, 06:41:52 pm
What a pile of crap. Learn to deal with organized groups of players instead of crying out loud. If clanmates can't play in the same team all the time then clans lose any sense of existence and the game becomes even more boring & repetitive. Fighting against organized clan formation should be a challenge and some great fun but unfortunately not for most of the semi-retarded community that just spawns - runs straightforward & gets killed without making any contribution to their team. L2P & L2 Listen to those who can organize a team of useless imbeciles and make them win.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 06:42:22 pm
I get the impression that this thread was created aftyer yesterday's games where we had nearly ALL our members playing.
Sometimes it happens we get together, play an rape, the amount of QQ related to this is quite out of proportion compared to the time we rape the server...

I like playing with my clan mates, that's the point of being in a clan for me, we get on teamspeak play and laugh together. I really dont want to be pushed into strat because clans are only allowed to play this if its members wants to play together, thats retarded.

and we are not the only ones, sometimes i see the bandits topping the scoreboards with pubbers saying ; bandit banner is the way to go!!
yesterday was a rare occasion, we managed to have 20 players on teamspeak and everyone was like : WTF???. It was pretty unusal!
I hear other clans have like 70+ members!!(bashis, greys, templols) where are they? raping siege? but hey we dont care about siege, i dont play there rofl. Kind of ironic because you'll find more noobs and newbes there then anywhere else (and i admit i like to go there to feel better about myself)
We dont have that much members, but 75% are active ( I sometimes wonder if they have a life)

About our banners, it's getting out of control, I'v counted at least 5 players,each from different clans, using our banner!
with the pubbers it's worse, I recall a round when we hid behind a wall, after 2 minuts we charged and died. we then noticed that within the 7 banners that were hiding behind the wall, only 3 out of 7 were actually real byzants, so only 3 of us charged on order...
banner balance isnt that soft with us, chase gets tossed around like a ball in a chinese ping pong match and other byzants get regurlarly tossed around. we dont actually play with that much teamwork sometimes, we'v actually got good players that rack up an insane amount of kills(like Chase, gravoth, warlord) and many others join our ranks .

stopping me playing with my bros would kill it for me and make me play less :/

i find no fun in strat, i wont to play with my buddies on the eu servers

Byzantium_the_intolerant

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 06:45:11 pm
They're public servers, only noobs like to pub stomp.  This coming from someone who almost always has 10-20 people with our banner in our teamspeak.  Yes, being organized is fun, having a x5 for hours is also a lot of fun.  Know what I enjoy the most?  Actual competition from the other team, making me get better. 

There needs to be some sort of class and skill balance that takes precedence over banner balance.  How anyone can think a pub stomp is fun, let alone legit "skill" is beyond me (well I think the answer is they just like the x5).
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 12, 2012, 06:55:33 pm
I get the impression that this thread was created aftyer yesterday's games where we had nearly ALL our members playing.
Sometimes it happens we get together, play an rape, the amount of QQ related to this is quite out of proportion compared to the time we rape the server...

I've been playing yesterday for few hours while you guys were owning and it was nothing unusual. Well, I didn't have my typical average x3, it was more like x2 but it was fine. Still scored as I usually do. Although I'm kinda used to Byzantium/Shogunate players. And you're not the type of clan who always go everywhere together like some of the clans you mentioned (mostly The Greys).

You forgot to mention Royans, he's one of your best scorers. Sadly my dumbass teammates don't understand that if we don't have any capable cavs in our team, all stray horses should be executed asap. I've seen Royans dehorsed plenty of times, just to find another horse and keep owning his enemies.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: MadeForFighting on March 12, 2012, 07:15:22 pm
No system is perfect. Turning off banner balance is just plain stupid, people form clans want to play together and this mechanic helps them, more or less - deal with it. The battlegroup/pin idea is pretty decent. Some system where people can from groups via the website, groups that are invite-only and balance is focused around that...but...it does not fix the problem, to be honest.
How to deal with getting balanced against strong clans? Well...join one. I really dont want to hear bullshit like "oh but I like to be clanless / in a small clan with only a couple friends/my clan is not active enough" - if you choose that route then deal with getting stomped by the bigger guys. There's a lot of good clans out there, just join one of them and be active, encourage others to be active with you and create your own few hour x5 streaks.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 12, 2012, 07:16:53 pm
Yeah it is getting pretty dumb out there with all the good players throwing on the same banner even if they are not in the same clan etc just to get a multi
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 07:18:42 pm
I'm not saying stomping noobs is fun, I'm saying playing with my clanmates is! i really dont get an hour long *5 as often you like to mention.
Sometimes we play and we still have a lsing streak, but no one seems to be bothered then

so yea competition is cool, but like i mentionned it before : "hear other clans have like 70+ members!!(bashis, greys, templols) where are they?" Bring on the competition!
The only clan i noticed is GK thats regurlaly comes to rape the server with cav (and that creates much hate and anti cav whine threads) and bandits with mauler gnjus and his tincans!

other clans? hardly see them, they play an hour, lose they multi and leave.

Yea leshma i forgot about royanss, but i mentionned gravoth and warlord because we hardly see them on ts but they rape the server so hard on their own

it costs nothing to join a clan, your nick has a tag in front of it you talk to some guys on ts sometimes and there you go (anyway thats how we role)! anyway, pretty much what made said
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on March 12, 2012, 07:54:46 pm
/rant on

To all clan people : THIS ISSUE IS LEGITIMATE !  sheesh

    Mori dont waste your time with thoses assholes  , ive been against banner balance the day it was created

  Sure play with your buddies , farm that multi 5x for hours ,  crpg is fuuuuun


 But ill quit if i cant play with my teammates !!!!    what a bunch of clan losers!   

   

Here is the real truth about BB : 

1- you use it to farm hours of 5x
 2- you dont like fighting your own clanmates which are very good players and prefer bad teams and players with 0 looms and no coordinated efforts ( HELLO TS VENTRILLO witchcraft ) 

       If you would have to fight waves of your own skilled clanmates full of looms you would GTX


  Get that shit BB out of here or make it so that huge clans get splitted   

          Theses are facts , ive been playing long enough

  And for fuck sake , stop saying go to a non bb server or use the banner , its not a fix its a retarded way to bypass your frustration of getting pwned by clans

 Clans are good for strategus and private servers like others said

                    /rant off

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Teeth on March 12, 2012, 08:16:45 pm
Stomping noobs is fun
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 08:21:08 pm
I see you'v made youself a nice general idea of clans...

1 - again, wer not on *5 as much as you like to think. and seriously, I'v come a point i couldnt really care about the multiplier, sure it's nice getting some money in, but I'v come a point i have enough money to substain my upkeep and I'm not retiring
2 - I am very happy to fight my team mates, on duel serv or in battle, to prove myself, to show I'v improved(and oh boy you'll here me brag in ts when i killed someone i consider better then me)!But the things I'v always seeked through the many games and clans I'v been in is teamwork.
in c-rpg it's the same thing, it has nothing to do with *5

it's only your fustration speaking

and like i said, strat is really not fun, a place of boredom and exploiters to show off their e-peens. I really dont fancy being stuck there because some randomers fancy flying solo in battle mode and whine when some clan brings in a bit of organisation
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 08:24:46 pm
So because you (and most people) enjoy playing with their clan, they should be able to all be on the same team in a public server and pub stomp noobs?

You guys are seriously taking that stance in a thread about balancing teams?  LOL

*EDIT for disclosure*  I'm part of the Hospitallers, we generally have 15-20 people in our teamspeak and in the same server at peak hours, I benefit from banner balance when I'm rolling x5 for hours.  Banner Balance is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gurnisson on March 12, 2012, 08:26:19 pm
I always get tossed around like some cheap whore by the autobalance. I rarely get to play with the nordmen on my main character and I don't like that at all. I want to train teamplay with other nordmen on public servers so we can be a good functional unit, but I rarely stay with them because of that silly autobalance. :(
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 08:28:33 pm
I always get tossed around like some cheap whore by the autobalance. I rarely get to play with the nordmen on my main character and I don't like that at all. I want to train teamplay with other nordmen on public servers so we can be a good functional unit, but I rarely stay with them because of that silly autobalance. :(

That's what practice, and scrimmages are for.  You can easily set up a scrim now with the battle groups.  The public servers should be where people go to play for fun.  I'm not discouraging tactics and teamwork, I think it's important, I just think that the teams should be balanced in public servers, even if that means you don't always get to play with your buddies and roll noobs for hours.

If it's possible, the teams should be balanced somewhat by banner, but I think the most important thing should be that they are balanced by skill level of characters, as well as their classes (or equipped items).
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 08:37:44 pm
stomping happens now and then, you make it sound like it happens 24:7. sometimes we'r on, a team with only randomers will win

I like to go on a serv, find 4 or 5 of my clanmates and play with them. forcing us to get together only for scrimmage and strat is lame. we shouldnt be pushed around cuz we fancy getting a bit of teamwork into battle, and because you guyz fancy being a lonesome hero.

you'r seriously making a mountain out of a molehill
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 08:44:47 pm
No I'm not.  You're advocating for unbalanced teams that with enough people, can easily pub stomp a server.  I'm advocating for balanced teams. 
I'd also prefer to play with my clanmates, and keep a x5, but not at the expense of having balanced teams.

See the difference?

What you're basically advocating is the equivalent of 10 people joining a 20 man counter-strike public server, all 10 join one side and proceed to roll the server.  That's called a pub stomp, and on every universe I've ever visited, is looked down upon all the same.

Playing with your clan mates is fun, but pub stomping is cowardly.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 08:47:26 pm
nope, I'm advocating for teamwork
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 08:48:06 pm
nope, I'm advocating for teamwork

As am I, but not at the expense of balanced teams. 

Reading comprehension, how does it work?
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on March 12, 2012, 08:50:07 pm
I always get tossed around like some cheap whore by the autobalance. I rarely get to play with the nordmen on my main character and I don't like that at all. I want to train teamplay with other nordmen on public servers so we can be a good functional unit, but I rarely stay with them because of that silly autobalance. :(

Happens to me a lot too. It seems the autobalance mainly "works" with the players with the higher k/ds. Like someone said: Chase gets mostly balanced after round one; the next best players follow... Maybe it can be something done with the algorithm that lets clans stay in one team, but then puts the best clanless (or underrepresented clanmembers) in the other team. I know from my own experience however that writing this kind of math is seriously hard. ;)

But pulling bannerbalance out of this mod (or any other mod for that matter) will seriously damage the overall fun in this game. It IS a Teamgame. This is no Quake-Deathmatch. You are supposed to be working together. This is a very big part of the fun in this game...

I can understand that it can be frustrating when there happens to be only one clan online or only one team organising properly (i.e. taking the barn or boat or charging all on one side or staying together on the hill) and you are in the team where everyone just randomly charges forward and dies. But nonetheless: This is a teamgame. Don't blame the ones actually playing as a team...
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 12, 2012, 08:51:43 pm
I always get tossed around like some cheap alt whore by the autobalance.

Fixed :D

I think banner balance works fine. For example, whenever there are lot of true Nords, I always end up in opposite team which is how it should be. But I don't get it how banner balance knows I'm impostor? Maybe balance banner is in fact chadz doing manual work when he's not coding some Strategus goodies or playing some crappy AAA game like Mass Errect 3.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on March 12, 2012, 08:52:56 pm
Fixed :D

I think banner balance works fine. For example, whenever there are lot of true Nords, I always end up in opposite team which is how it should be. But I don't get it how banner balance knows I'm impostor? Maybe balance banner is in fact chadz doing manual work when he's not coding some Strategus goodies or playing some crappy AAA game like Mass Errect 3.

That got a good chuckle out of me. :D
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 08:57:55 pm
so how does complete random teams brings teamwork?

seriously I'm saying things about playing together, teamwork and stuff since a few posts and you seem to completluy ignore what I am saying! then you talk about comprehension? this is ironic!

you are complety against banner balance, because, SOMETIMES, we stomp the enemy team...

and when there are many of my clan mates on, i can assure you we are never all on the same team...

edit : oh yea aswell, i see small clans that can play together thanks to banner balance. I'v just come across some swiss halberders.
getting rid of BB would actually do more harm then you think...
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 12, 2012, 09:03:22 pm
oops double posting, sry
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gnjus on March 12, 2012, 09:04:00 pm
Playing with your clan mates is fun, but pub stomping is cowardly.

Cowardly in what way ? Who's fault is it that randomers course of action is this: spawn - run forward (possibly taking an arrow from the opposite corner of the map right away) - don't even bother to look around and get couched by Heroic Khans - if i manage to stay alive to meet the enemy just spam wild till i die without making any contribution to my team except maybe a few lucky kills ? Who's fault is it that they refuse to be alert and directly cause their team to lose ? Is it the Byzantium guys fault ? By organizing themselves they cause others to play like idiots ? I don't think so. What Lactose the Milkman said: sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, its a normal thing that their organization and numbers will more likely prevail then not.
Personally i enjoy playing against them with my lads, no matter how much i dislike some assholish members of their clan but still its more interesting to fight someone worth killing even if they prevail more often then we do. Randomers don't give a shit about playing the game and enjoying it, most of em probably just spawn and get killed fast so they can continue doing their homework or browsing porn so losing to organized team is exactly what they deserve. Remove banner balance and you've killed the mod (once again).
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on March 12, 2012, 09:08:59 pm
Cowardly in what way ? Who's fault is it that randomers course of action is this: spawn - run forward (possibly taking an arrow from the opposite corner of the map right away) - don't even bother to look around and get couched by Heroic Khans - if i manage to stay alive to meet the enemy just spam wild till i die without making any contribution to my team except maybe a few lucky kills ? Who's fault is it that they refuse to be alert and directly cause their team to lose ? Is it the Byzantium guys fault ? By organizing themselves they cause others to play like idiots ? I don't think so. What Lactose the Milkman said: sometimes they win, sometimes they lose, its a normal thing that their organization and numbers will more likely prevail then not.
Personally i enjoy playing against them with my lads, no matter how much i dislike some assholish members of their clan but still its more interesting to fight someone worth killing even if they prevail more often then we do. Randomers don't give a shit about playing the game and enjoying it, most of em probably just spawn and get killed fast so they can continue doing their homework or browsing porn so losing to organized team is exactly what they deserve. Remove banner balance and you've killed the mod (once again).



Give this mans nose a medal.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on March 12, 2012, 09:52:42 pm
who says the pubbies (like me) dont like teamworking , i think its a important factor in this game

  The problem lies into having a full clan stomping the servers for hours   , 

 Its far easier to do teamworking with TS and full dedicated group of heroes  loaded with gear ,
pubbies cant have the same level of teamworking ITS NOT POSSIBLE....

heck i could be 30-0 with the proper clan , but it remove the fun of playing , there is no challenge , no fun no feats

and the opposite is as bad , its a land of horror where pubbies  get destroyed and people like me with a great kd  get pushed in the pubbie side so that YOU get to play with your buddies

 BB is fun but in reality its a totally unfair method of balancing ,

If you cant agree that its unfair , you fail at life and may God have mercy on your soul 


also id like to mention BB is ultra bad at mixing side ups ,  as an example  in siege , i get to defend 95% of the time because of bad balance and poor mixing 


Hopefully that new dev i forgot his name sorry can find a proper lets say : middle solution that satisfy both sides

 

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: oohillac on March 12, 2012, 10:19:30 pm
NA-side Fallen Brigade, we'll have at most 5 of us on a given average night, and with our numbers we're forced to work with the hivemind rather than control the battle ourselves.  Removing banner balance would do nothing except annoy us because we can't play on the same team.

It's when clanless players with some semblance of intelligence start scooping up a certain banner (cough chaos cough) when said clan already has quite a few good players that things get ridiculous.  Fighting a dozen heavily-armoured players who know how to work together is no fun.

I'm at a loss for a solution.  I want to play with my friends, but I also don't want us to be rolled constantly by banner-stacking.  Perhaps the PIN system suggested would help.

I think having more coordinated clans would help even out the battle server, but that won't happen on NA, not enough players.

The worst is when the system puts two different clans together on the same team with like 2-3 public players, versus a whole team of clanless pubbies.  That sucks.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 12, 2012, 10:25:15 pm
NA-side Fallen Brigade, we'll have at most 5 of us on a given average night, and with our numbers we're forced to work with the hivemind rather than control the battle ourselves.  Removing banner balance would do nothing except annoy us because we can't play on the same team.

It's when clanless players with some semblance of intelligence start scooping up a certain banner (cough chaos cough) when said clan already has quite a few good players that things get ridiculous.  Fighting a dozen heavily-armoured players who know how to work together is no fun.

I'm at a loss for a solution.  I want to play with my friends, but I also don't want us to be rolled constantly by banner-stacking.  Perhaps the PIN system suggested would help.

I think having more coordinated clans would help even out the battle server, but that won't happen on NA, not enough players.

The worst is when the system puts two different clans together on the same team with like 2-3 public players, versus a whole team of clanless pubbies.  That sucks.

I think what I've suggested would be the best of both worlds.  If it won't uneven the balance of the server, then balance some banners together.  If one or two banners dominate the server and causes an imbalance to place them all together, then put them on separate teams.

I think this should be the order:

Balance by class/equipment
Balance by char level
Balance by banner

And make it so that if it's at all possible to even out the server based on banner, then do so.  But not at the expense of keeping the teams balanced.

I think it's great when 5 people of a faction can play together on the same team.  I think it's lame when 20 people all have the same banner and the balance system places the banner as the highest priority, at the expense of balanced teams, making it essentially a pub stomp.

There's got to be a better algorithm.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gnjus on March 12, 2012, 10:53:59 pm
Banners are the key - restrict them for clan members only and you solved most of the problems. I think there's more then enough banners for everyone, clans & randoms alike. What you think is 15 Byzantiums is actually 9 of em + 6 random leechers using their banner and screwing two things at the same time: first they mess up the balance because if there's too many of the same banners they'll end up split during the map one way or another and second: you split the clanmates and ruin their fun. That needs some heavy fixing, someone should enslave Özin again.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on March 12, 2012, 11:05:42 pm
Banners are the key - restrict them for clan members only and you solved most of the problems. I think there's more then enough banners for everyone, clans & randoms alike. What you think is 15 Byzantiums is actually 9 of em + 6 random leechers using their banner and screwing two things at the same time: first they mess up the balance because if there's too many of the same banners they'll end up split during the map one way or another and second: you split the clanmates and ruin their fun. That needs some heavy fixing, someone should enslave Özin again.

SLAVE HIM FOR FAIR FIGHTS! :D   

the 6 random leechers arent much of a threat

i respect you alot  Gnjus  but in that comment , you think only for your clan and play with your clan and split the clanmates , how about thinking about the other side too  :D

 How hard it is to make a  two sides with similar levels gear without having all clan on one side ?   it does seem very hard 
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Teeth on March 12, 2012, 11:23:41 pm
I really think having clans playing on the same team while keeping the teams balanced is completely possible. Just needs a different balance system than we have now.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lichen on March 12, 2012, 11:40:30 pm
I really think having clans playing on the same team while keeping the teams balanced is completely possible. Just needs a different balance system than we have now.
-It needs to put all REAL clan members on the same team (make it so non clannies can't use a clan banner).
-k/d (or damage done) is determined for each player and they are are given a number (#10 for the best k/d #9 second #8 third best etc) after clans are put on the same team (not 2 big clans on the same team) their 'number total' is considered when determining which non clan players are put on the other team. Also k/d ratio number should be precalculated based on past performance (taken from your existing stats and updated once a day or whatever)

The goal would be to have each side have as close to the same total 'number' as possible. If this ends up with one team with more players then that's how it should be.

I don't know if this is how the balance currently works in some ways or not but just some ideas.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gnjus on March 13, 2012, 09:03:30 am
how about thinking about the other side too  :D

Truth be told: the other side doesn't really deserve to be thought about. On numerous occasions i played chars without Bandits clan tag and i found myself on the opposite side of Byzantiums, Bandits, Fallens or any other at least semi-organized group of players and most of the time i was losing but at least i got the chance to see the core of the problem: punishing clans because random people play like morons and don't even care about putting at least 2% effort to win a round is unfair. If they don't give a damn about the game they play so be it - let 'em lose most of the time. All this time they spend posting their tears on the forum could've been spent either staying alive a bit longer on the battlefield and contributing to their team OR spectating after they died to see what they did wrong but no, they prefer leeching or brain-farting around and YET expect to get their multipliers. Serves them right to get owned by Byzzies and i enjoy their crying when i see it. This is a multiplayer online game that requires just a bit of teamwork to be fun & successful and the most hilarious part of all is to see all those duelist that require justice for their playing style. If you want to duel then go to the fucking duel server, individually you can be the best duelist around but on Battle server you'll just suck big camel's cock because you chase your own score and don't give a shit about the rest. That's when you see all those 2handed killing machines with insane scores but still on the losing team.

My advice to all the Banner Balance criers & random leechers is this: if you don't really want to play this game then don't, to efficiently kill off your spare time you could be doing many other things, either playing games like Solitaire or Minesweeper or even taking a walk outside and seeing how other people actually look like.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Vibe on March 13, 2012, 11:10:55 am
Banners are the key - restrict them for clan members only and you solved most of the problems.

This please
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lech on March 13, 2012, 11:47:03 am
"oh no I am a clanless player but me likes the xzy banner soooooooooo much!"

This PINs seem to be even better then restricting banners tbh.

Yeah, banners for all, pin for clans who want to abuse the shi... play with their clanmates.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 13, 2012, 12:15:40 pm
Yeah, banners for all, pin for clans who want to abuse the shi... play with their clanmates.
Arent you Lech the Grey? Member of a faction who use banner balance to farm Siege?
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Tomas on March 13, 2012, 02:10:55 pm
I like banner balance as it is although I agree that clans should be able to limit access to their banner somehow.  However it will need to be done in such a way that linked clans and cross clan friends can still switch to each others banners.  Quite often if there are no other Fallens online and I see a bunch of GK or HRE players I will go and play with them in their TS and I think it is important that this is still allowed to happen.

As an extra I would like to see there being a random chance of being rewarded in some way if you ever actually do spend an hour actively fighting but never getting above a x2.  Some alternative chadz text that says "Your patience has been rewarded by the almighty chadz and he has thrown a gold bar worth 10k at the back of your head from on high" :D
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 13, 2012, 06:19:53 pm
If banners used by clan (most of the banner available) become restricted, what will randomers use as a banner. Will they implement one banner for all randomers. How will teams look in that case. All randomers under let's say white flag and all the clans on the other side? It that the solution you all seek. There are still many clanless people playing, if you force them to play under the same banner, you'll just fuck them even more and eventually many of them will quit playing, some will form clans but many will quit.

And about clans.. it's a good thing apart from strategus we don't have clan vs clan skirmish mod. I was playing a game where at first situation was similar (actually way worse than what we have in cRPG) and then clan vs clan feature got implemented. Only two clans were fighting each other, one was the best atm and second was still in the making. After some time second clan became better than the first, first quit and for a period of six months no one had the balls to play against new best clan. Only people who did that were we, crazy people from Balkans who became second best clan (although there was less than ten people in our clan) and guess what? No one wanted to play against us. Biggest clan, mexican clan (game had only NA server) which had more than 50 active members were biggest pussies in the whole game.

From what I hear it's similar situation in Strategus, no one has balls to attack other clans. Everyone is part of one huge coalition. Pacifism at its best, in a game about medieval wars and battles...

With dedicated clan skirmish game mode it would be even worse, you don't want to see it, believe me.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Bongo Fury on March 13, 2012, 06:47:54 pm
Clanned player: "NO U, nothing wrong with banner balance, Get a clan, or use our banner, or be farmed!"

*3 months later*

Clanned player: "muhahahah.........wait....where did everyone go?"

*Tumbleweed*


Think about what your saying and your actions.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: MadeForFighting on March 14, 2012, 01:50:41 am
You know, banner balance is only one of the issues that people have to face. In my opinion a bigger issue is the mentality of people that actually supports "us" (big, more or less organized battle groups consisting of clan members) in the stomping. People doing the banner leeching are a perfect example, and before in this thread it was mentioned that "out of 15 byz banners only 9 of them are real and a real threat, the rest are banner leechers who are not dangerous" - nothing more wrong, those guys become twice more dangerous than other randomers, and here is why : people follow the "big guys" around. Often I see people outside my clan but with our banner sticking more or less around us and helping us greatly just by being there. Thanks to those random additions to our already intimidating group we become an even bigger force, they stick to us so it gives the whole team a bit of organisation - battle servers are often won by simple sticking together and picking off the small, seperated groups of the opposing team. The banner-leeching randomers are just as a big problem as clan-member stacking, because as long as they keep around the experienced and organised group - they automatically become a part of the "rape train". They may not even kill anything, but they provide "cannon fodder" and make the group look more scary. How often did you see battles lost because when two groups meet one of them has a bunch of people who decide to retreat, misjudging the situation, and end up as two smaller groups completly dominated by the big one that stuck together? A lot. All the time. And stacking banners just plain helps people feel like a single unit. There is no mechanic going wrong, no system or math - its just the people.
Hard to blame anyone for doing that, to be honest. Hell, I've been "raised" in the cRPG times when there was no autoexp and we would get exp and gold by being around kills. And as a low level newbie with a low and cheap equipment what would I do? Follow the big guys! Stick with the big crowd, stick with the tincans, stick with the organised clan squads - because around those people die. And people going down is fun, its exp and its gold. The first thing I learned in cRPG was how to recognize the groups that net a lot of kills and follow them around. Something similiar happens here, people want stuff to die, they want the exp and gold going, they stick to the strong guys...and make them even stronger by that.

Also, Gnjus is lovely.


Edit:
Also, the whole problem seems to be a bit exaggerated. Byzantiums, even when there's a lot of us, often get stomped by the opposite teams.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Vibe on March 14, 2012, 08:24:44 am
Clanned player: "NO U, nothing wrong with banner balance, Get a clan, or use our banner, or be farmed!"

*3 months later*

Clanned player: "muhahahah.........wait....where did everyone go?"

*Tumbleweed*


I see this as filtering out the whiners
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 16, 2012, 11:11:12 am
I see this as filtering out the whiners

Indeed: You dont see so many players in other games crying cause of team stompage. Cause they realise the fault is not with balance, it is with themselves. Get better. Learn to kill 5 guys at once if need be.

Or, you know, join a server without bannerbalance :D

Also, if you are ONLY having fun by winning, or you only play for mutliplier, you arent playing at all.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Vodner on March 16, 2012, 03:50:40 pm
Banner balance is completely unfair when it stacks an entire clan vs a bunch of new players / peasants / disorganized people. I say this as somebody who usually gets to roll an x5 when there are 10-15 Chaos folks on.

x5 steamrolls are not fun, regardless of which side you are on. The primary goal of the autobalance algorithm should be to get the odds of winning as close to 50% for each team as is possible (ideally; obviously that isn't trivial to accomplish). Banner balance should be a secondary concern.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Tears of Destiny on March 16, 2012, 03:53:08 pm
Clanned player: "NO U, nothing wrong with banner balance, Get a clan, or use our banner, or be farmed!"

*3 months later*

Clanned player: "muhahahah.........wait....where did everyone go?"

*Tumbleweed*


Think about what your saying and your actions.

And a year later, I have yet to see that tumbleweed. Try again.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 16, 2012, 04:17:30 pm
Wise words and shit yo

^this guy
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 16, 2012, 05:41:44 pm
Only time I think that banner balance has stopped working is when it puts all clans on one team (Byzantium, Druzhina, Guards and Nordmen f.e.) and clanless random people on the other side. I'm not sure why is this happening, must be some bug. It's really annoying.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: rustyspoon on March 16, 2012, 05:57:58 pm
I've never been a fan of autobalance, or autostack as I like to call it. It consistently makes for boring games. You're either on the team that's rolling or you're being rolled. There's no real middle-ground. Generally, the clan with the most players on wins.

However, I doubt this will ever go away as the clans like to keep that x5 rolling. And telling people to switch banners isn't a fix either. What, should everybody start putting the same banner on?

In my opinion, strat is for rolling with your clan and the regular servers are for pub play. Also, it's nice to play against the really good players in my clan like Dan, which rarely happens due to banner balance.

Banner balance is stupid and it always has been. Let's get rid of it already.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 16, 2012, 06:50:24 pm
I've never been a fan of autobalance, or autostack as I like to call it. It consistently makes for boring games. You're either on the team that's rolling or you're being rolled. There's no real middle-ground. Generally, the clan with the most players on wins.

However, I doubt this will ever go away as the clans like to keep that x5 rolling. And telling people to switch banners isn't a fix either. What, should everybody start putting the same banner on?

In my opinion, strat is for rolling with your clan and the regular servers are for pub play. Also, it's nice to play against the really good players in my clan like Dan, which rarely happens due to banner balance.

Banner balance is stupid and it always has been. Let's get rid of it already.

Agreed. The only people who support it are the people in the clans that stomp nonstop or banner leechers, I can not see a regular player who has to go against this every fucking day supporting banner balance staying

idk wtf the devs were even thinking "yeah lets give players the ability to stack all the best players on one team, nothing bad can come out of this!"
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Rumblood on March 16, 2012, 07:08:51 pm
Well.....I'm not in a clan. I don't care about the banner balance. The only time I switch my banner is so that I can roll with individuals in a clan, not the clan itself  :idea: I don't have a problem with rolling x5's either.

But then again, I care less about my K/D and more about doing what it takes to make my team win. There is a lot you can do that doesn't show on the scoreboard.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on March 16, 2012, 07:14:15 pm
Agreed. The only people who support it are the people in the clans that stomp nonstop or banner leechers, I can not see a regular player who has to go against this every fucking day supporting banner balance staying

idk wtf the devs were even thinking "yeah lets give players the ability to stack all the best players on one team, nothing bad can come out of this!"

Banner balance got implemented while cmpx was still member of Mercs :wink:
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: BlindGuy on March 17, 2012, 04:48:28 pm
Banner balance got implemented while cmpx was still member of Mercs :wink:


OH SNAP!
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on March 17, 2012, 05:13:34 pm
what would be a reason for clans if it werent for playing together on pubs ? strategus ? please..

and leshma if all banners would be taken by clans, there is always this faction banner thing, which gives you dynamic banner depending on which side your on
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 18, 2012, 02:11:11 am
Yes remove teamwork!

We do get alot of multi's when on the same team but we dont always get them, I have lost many rounds even with alot of byz on my team. We do get switched too even if we have the same banner so the autobalance is working its magic when needed.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: rustyspoon on March 18, 2012, 04:49:48 am
Yes remove teamwork!

Yes, if banner balance was removed, no one would ever work together ever again.  :rolleyes:

With the current banner balance, pretty much every clan member is on the same team with 1 or 2 on the other one. Banner balance completely ignores the fact that MOST of the skilled players in this game are in clans. A good player at level 20 is worth a HELL of a lot more than a random at level 30. If autobalance worked better, the games would be far more interesting instead of one team rolling the other team round after round. Even with a better system you could still have most of your clannies on the same team. For example, if 12 chaos guys were on the server. Instead of having 1 on one team and 11 on the other. What if it was 6 and 6?

I've just never heard an excuse for our current system that wasn't bullshit.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: POOPHAMMER on March 18, 2012, 06:40:38 am
Yes, if banner balance was removed, no one would ever work together ever again.  :rolleyes:

With the current banner balance, pretty much every clan member is on the same team with 1 or 2 on the other one. Banner balance completely ignores the fact that MOST of the skilled players in this game are in clans. A good player at level 20 is worth a HELL of a lot more than a random at level 30. If autobalance worked better, the games would be far more interesting instead of one team rolling the other team round after round. Even with a better system you could still have most of your clannies on the same team. For example, if 12 chaos guys were on the server. Instead of having 1 on one team and 11 on the other. What if it was 6 and 6?

I've just never heard an excuse for our current system that wasn't bullshit.

Do not worry, as long as we have people from the big clans hold their hands over their ears and screaming over us as we try to explain why its broken, it will stay
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: dodnet on May 23, 2012, 07:42:58 pm
Bump this shit... nothing has changed.

After x maps of Byzantinum rape it gets fucking boring. Best example was the game I just played. First round: everything was perfectly balanced, result: 4 or 5 survived at round end, next round one team was FULL of Byzantinum banners and our team was raped with only half the other team dead. This isn't fun.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Ronin on May 23, 2012, 10:23:36 pm
This isn't fun.
Problem with this system is, it is fun when you're in the winning team.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on May 23, 2012, 10:33:17 pm
ah yes, you distinguished yourself on the server by your QQ.

this happens very rarely....last time byz steamrolled the server was when you created this thread, more then 2 months ago. give it a break and man up  :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Bulzur on May 24, 2012, 12:06:00 am
Yeah, it's not like your banner is fixed when you create your character.

It's not like you think it's byzantium steamrolling but there's actually 5 byzantium and then decent players with the same banner (Leshma, Ballista, etc...) and some randomers, wich makes it 10 "byzantium", who stays together, play smartly and owns you.

If you can't fight them decently, join then.

I prefer fighting them, wich is more challenging. Even though it's sometimes incredible how all your team seems to die in 20 seconds while you're actually doing your best round so far. Having fun > Being in the winning team. Though it's fun winning and crashing down people who think this isn't a team based game.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on May 24, 2012, 12:17:24 am
Leshma

I used Nord banner but I changed it to Byz when I saw Crush thy Enemy using Byz banner :wink:
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Leshma on May 24, 2012, 12:31:27 am
Ballista

You mean, Byzantium_Ballista?
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Rhekimos on May 24, 2012, 12:42:33 am
If Byzantium starts steamrolling, a lot of banner leechers switch to Byz banner. The problem fixes itself, as the other team will only have people proud to wear their own banner.

I don't know if banner balance is agnostic to the size of the clans playing, but it would be nice if it treated smaller and bigger clans equally.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on May 24, 2012, 08:18:04 pm
If Byzantium starts steamrolling, a lot of banner leechers switch to Byz banner. The problem fixes itself, as the other team will only have people proud to wear their own banner.

I don't know if banner balance is agnostic to the size of the clans playing, but it would be nice if it treated smaller and bigger clans equally.

yea there's a situation were the system just imploses. many leechers, even from other clans use our banner to level up. But there's so many byz banners that real byz players are spread in both teams in the end.

it regulates itself, needs no exterior help
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Joker86 on May 24, 2012, 08:27:29 pm
Step 1:

Clean out all maps that are not perfectly even.

Check out if there are "natural fortifications" (turning battles into "soft" sieges), if the distances to choke points are equal (the team spawning closer to the central bridge will lose in the majority of all cases), and if both teams spawn on the same height level (so one team doesn't need to fight uphill).

Step 2:

Remove banner balance

Step 3:

Implement faction balance.

It's basically like the faction system of strategus. It works over the character page, not ingame by banner. You can either create your own faction, or join an existing one by dropdown menu and "apply" button.

Being the leader of a faction you get a rudimentary faction managment menu, like a member list and buttons next to them, like "promote" to make them either officer (can accept applications, too) or the new leader (can change all settings like faction name and stuff) or demote, for obvious reasons. Also a "kick" button is probably needed. You also get a list of applications with "accept" or "decline". All actions taken are saved in a small log which can be read by every member, so you see who gets promoted, demoted or kicked by whome, to prevent people of messing around with it and "being funny".

Auto balance now asks for your faction, instead of your banner. No more banner whoring.

Step 4:

Implement (hidden) player classes.

According to his skills and equipment, players get classified (right word? Or did I say they were made secret?) on the character page.

1. Check riding skill. Higher as 2? Rider. If not: Footman.
2. If rider: check horse archer skill. If higher than 0: horse archer. If not: cavalry.
3. If horse archer: check highest ranged WPF. Depending on this result classified as HA, HX or HT.
4. If cavalry: check highest melee WPF. Depending on this result classified as lancer, 1hd cav or 2hd cav.
5. If footman: check if Power Draw or Power Throw > 3. If so, classify as archer or thrower.
6. If no archer or thrower, check WPF in crossbow. If >74, then classify as crossbowman.
7. If no ranged fighter, check shield skill. If > 3, then classify as shieldman.
8. If shieldman, check whether highest WPF is polearm. If so, classify as hoplite.
9. If shieldman but no hoplite, classify as 1hd + shield.
10. If no shieldman, check highest WPF. If highest WPF 2hd, classify as 2hd infantry.
11. If 2hd infantry, check for crushthrough weapon. If so, classify as crushthrough infantry.
12. If no shieldman and no 2hd infantry, only polearm is left. If polearm infantry, check for pike weapon. If so, classify as pikeman.
13. If polearm infantry but no pikeman, classify as 2hd poleinfantry.
14. If no class can be applied, classify as peasant/weird hybrid.

This way the game knows exactly which class you are, recalling the prepared data as soon as you enter the server. It is rechecked on the server every time you change your weapons.

Step 5:
 
Track player skill.

Take his k/d into concern as well as his w/l ratio. Add the w/l ration on the character page, btw., it's a value I'd only be too pleased to see on the character page. Add this to his level, generation and the value of the items he equipped, and you've got a rough value about the player's personal experience.


Step 6:

Make fair teams.

First distribute the faction squads evenly among the teams (Biggest suqad to team A. 2nd and 3rd biggest squads to team B, 4th and 5th to team A again, and so on). Then look at the factionless pool, and distribute the classes accordingly. If you can't make up an overweight of one class with the same class on the other team, then fill up with their "counter class". The choice which class player gets into which team is solved by the player values.

Step 7:

Implement a command system.

So players can actually have a bigger impact on how well their team does. A command system would allow teams to adapt to superior enemies and turn the tables. Without command system you need a few horrible steamrolls to get people to listen and follow certain tactics.

Step 8:


Change multiplier system.

With a good working balance player would be stuck on x1 or x2 most of the time, not being able to wear any but the cheapest equipment. Either change the multiplier system, for example a loss gives only -1 on multiplier, instead of resetting it, and/or lowering upkeep cost accordingly, making a x5 even more of a reward.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Kalp on May 24, 2012, 09:02:58 pm
banner leechers.... it's a sad view  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: Kafein on May 25, 2012, 02:39:56 am
banner leechers.... it's a sad view  :rolleyes:

It's a necessary evil. I suppose most of those that banner leech would change server if they couldn't do that, at least when they do banner leech. Nobody likes being sticked to the losing team and that is true in all games.


This behaviour only shows humans aren't like bots.
Title: Re: Get this broken balance fixed!
Post by: EyeBeat on May 26, 2012, 10:51:59 pm
/rant on

To all clan people : THIS ISSUE IS LEGITIMATE !  sheesh

    Mori dont waste your time with thoses assholes  , ive been against banner balance the day it was created

  Sure play with your buddies , farm that multi 5x for hours ,  crpg is fuuuuun


 But ill quit if i cant play with my teammates !!!!    what a bunch of clan losers!   

   

Here is the real truth about BB : 

1- you use it to farm hours of 5x
 2- you dont like fighting your own clanmates which are very good players and prefer bad teams and players with 0 looms and no coordinated efforts ( HELLO TS VENTRILLO witchcraft ) 

       If you would have to fight waves of your own skilled clanmates full of looms you would GTX


  Get that shit BB out of here or make it so that huge clans get splitted   

          Theses are facts , ive been playing long enough

  And for fuck sake , stop saying go to a non bb server or use the banner , its not a fix its a retarded way to bypass your frustration of getting pwned by clans

 Clans are good for strategus and private servers like others said

                    /rant off

Balb I agree with you.  Let's take off BB.