cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Polobow on March 04, 2011, 09:37:59 pm
-
So yeah, seen people talk about it.
Do you think ironflesh needs a buff, going to 3hp?
-
Anyone wants to post his arguments?
-
Someone had a good idea of it being like this
1 Point of IF = 1 Hp
2 Point of IF = 2 Hp
3 Point of IF = 4 Hp
4 Point of IF = 8 Hp
5 Point of IF = 16 Hp
6 Point of IF = 24 Hp
-
..Nnnoo. IF is fine as is: if you got 24 HP from 6 points, that'd be overpowered. Iron Flesh is perfect now because you can go without it, but you'll die a lot of times when you would've survived.
-
Yeah, Korgoth's suggestion would just make it mandatory for every build, because it would be just too good to skip.
-
i would make it the other way around, so we wouldnt see 100 hp builds, but it would be usefull instead of just a random skill
-
Someone had a good idea of it being like this
1 Point of IF = 1 Hp
2 Point of IF = 2 Hp
3 Point of IF = 4 Hp
4 Point of IF = 8 Hp
5 Point of IF = 16 Hp
6 Point of IF = 24 Hp
it was more like:
1 Point of IF = 1 Hp
2 Point of IF = 2 Hp
3 Point of IF = 3 Hp
4 Point of IF = 4 Hp
5 Point of IF = 5 Hp
6 Point of IF = 6 Hp
7 Point of IF = 7 Hp
so you would get 28 HP instead of 14 HP
-
it was more like:
1 Point of IF = 1 Hp
2 Point of IF = 2 Hp
3 Point of IF = 3 Hp
4 Point of IF = 4 Hp
5 Point of IF = 5 Hp
6 Point of IF = 6 Hp
7 Point of IF = 7 Hp
so you would get 28 HP instead of 14 HP
too much life for high str builds
this is a used build:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 36
Agility: 3
Hit points: 93
Converted: 8
Ironflesh: 11
Power Strike: 12
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
imaging this with those if stats!
you'd have something like 140 hp
-
it was more like:
1 Point of IF = 1 Hp
2 Point of IF = 2 Hp
3 Point of IF = 3 Hp
4 Point of IF = 4 Hp
5 Point of IF = 5 Hp
6 Point of IF = 6 Hp
7 Point of IF = 7 Hp
so you would get 28 HP instead of 14 HP
Yeh that was it. I think this way is better
-
too much life for high str builds
this is a used build:
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 36
Agility: 3
Hit points: 93
Converted: 8
Ironflesh: 11
Power Strike: 12
Shield: 0
Athletics: 0
Riding: 0
Horse Archery: 0
Power Draw: 0
Power Throw: 0
Weapon Master: 0
One Handed: 1
Two Handed: 1
Polearm: 1
Archery: 1
Crossbow: 1
Throwing: 1
imaging this with those if stats!
you'd have something like 140 hp
I dont believe anyone is playing such a build.. I played 24/15 and it was horrible
but you might be right perhaps its too much hp and would be abused like anything abusable ^^
-
I dont believe anyone is playing such a build.. I played 24/15 and it was horrible
but you might be right perhaps its too much hp and would be abused like anything abusable ^^
Turk_Robin_Hood (atleast that's his old name)
other crushthrough builds
a few str throwers
-
I have a 29/9 build that uses only a 1 handed sword, its awesome and very good.
-
I have a 29/9 build that uses only a 1 handed sword, its awesome and very good.
ehm... what is the idea of having 29 strenght?
-
I have a 29/9 build that uses only a 1 handed sword, its awesome and very good.
you make a fine target for my mighty long maul :mrgreen:
-
That is if you survive the stab in your face with 9 powerstrike...
ehm... what is the idea of having 29 strenght?
Miscalculation, anyways I am retiring next level I am a powerhouse and those puny agi stackers die in 2 hit maximum
-
.. Agi stackers die in 1 hit when you have 15-18 str.
-
.. Agi stackers die in 1 hit when you have 15-18 str.
Only with 2h weapons and polearms :)
-
And good 1h weapons :)
-
Eh, tempered long espada eslanova
-
What if instead of hp it increased your base armor resistence by 0.5 per point? Then Iron flesh is the characters ability to use their armor more effectively (chalk it up to knowing how to move into and out of hits when wearing armor).
This would maybe be good if the skill was 1 point to every 2 points agility and strength, so to really stack it you would have to be balanced and it couldn't push any 1-stat-stacked builds over the top.
-
IronFlesh should be a natural armor value, not hp based. Maybe 2 pts of armor for head, body, legs for every pt of IF. In the end, a build with 8 IF could run around naked and still have basic light armor of 16 head/body/legs, or just wear light armor also adding its own value making it more of a medium wear.
This will allow even more viability for say a barbarian build as well.
It also would take away from IF being perceived as only useful when wearing heavy armor - as well as the fact people wearing heavy armor would have even higher armor counts now.
-
I say leave as is. Strength builds are already too powerful especially with the NA map selections favoring them
-
Last I heard the IF bonus was hardcoded into the game and the only way to change it up would be to make every 1 point of IF in the site count as 2 in the servers (so +4 hp for every one instead of 2). I think this was decided to be too much so IF seems doomed to be mostly useless.
Some one came up with an alternative to make IF only able to level up every 6 points of STR and make it the +4hp instead of the +2hp. Would do the same thing as now for less skill points maybe making it a more viable skill?
-
Some one came up with an alternative to make IF only able to level up every 6 points of STR and make it the +4hp instead of the +2hp. Would do the same thing as now for less skill points maybe making it a more viable skill?
i like this
-
How about 1,5 IF/point? Or is it impossible?
-
Make the additional bonus degressive, like in any damn not-designed-by-a-know-nothing game !!!
And that is true for any skill. The first points should give more than the others, as specializing too much usually means either exploiting a broken features, or being able to avoid the confrontation against your natural counter.
Applying that rule on IF would do, for example :
IF 1 : +5 HP
IF 2 : +4 HP
IF 3 : +3 HP
IF 4 : +3 HP
IF 5 : +2 HP
IF 6 : +2 HP
and everything above gives 1 additionnal HP. Thus investing a few points really is usefull, but the others are only for those who really want to specialize.
And don't get me wrong here : I think dumping points in IF is currently not a good choice.
-
Make the additional bonus degressive, like in any damn not-designed-by-a-know-nothing game !!!
And that is true for any skill. The first points should give more than the others, as specializing too much usually means either exploiting a broken features, or being able to avoid the confrontation against your natural counter.
Applying that rule on IF would do, for example :
IF 1 : +5 HP
IF 2 : +4 HP
IF 3 : +3 HP
IF 4 : +3 HP
IF 5 : +2 HP
IF 6 : +2 HP
and everything above gives 1 additionnal HP. Thus investing a few points really is usefull, but the others are only for those who really want to specialize.
And don't get me wrong here : I think dumping points in IF is currently not a good choice.
sry but worst idea, because it favors already op agility builds
@Noble Crassius yeah hardcoded but I think with the tool cmpxchg8b (forgot the name) developed, it might be possible to change it
-
sry but worst idea, because it favors already op agility builds
@Noble Crassius yeah hardcoded but I think with the tool cmpxchg8b (forgot the name) developed, it might be possible to change it
agi builds arent OP, usually balanced builds top the scoreboard atm.
-
So yeah, seen people talk about it.
Do you think ironflesh needs a buff, going to 3hp?
Yes, this would be the optimum changed but if Last I heard the IF bonus was hardcoded into the game and the only way to change it up would be to make every 1 point of IF in the site count as 2 in the servers (so +4 hp for every one instead of 2). I think this was decided to be too much so IF seems doomed to be mostly useless.
is true, then Some one came up with an alternative to make IF only able to level up every 6 points of STR and make it the +4hp instead of the +2hp. Would do the same thing as now for less skill points maybe making it a more viable skill?
would be a suitable atlernative.
-
sry but worst idea, because it favors already op agility builds
@Noble Crassius yeah hardcoded but I think with the tool cmpxchg8b (forgot the name) developed, it might be possible to change it
By the way, if that principle only was applicated to Ironflesh, you would be true. The idea is to make every stat having a degressive bonus curve.
-
IronFlesh should be a natural armor value, not hp based. Maybe 2 pts of armor for head, body, legs for every pt of IF. In the end, a build with 8 IF could run around naked and still have basic light armor of 16 head/body/legs, or just wear light armor also adding its own value making it more of a medium wear.
This will allow even more viability for say a barbarian build as well.
It also would take away from IF being perceived as only useful when wearing heavy armor - as well as the fact people wearing heavy armor would have even higher armor counts now.
Good idea! But what about speed reduction? Will that IF armor count to speed penalty or an exception?
-
Increasing either IF or the base hp would be a good step towards balancing some high dmg ranged weapons and easy first hitters, like the katana.
-
Increasing either IF or the base hp would be a good step towards balancing some high dmg ranged weapons and easy first hitters, like the katana.
Right, because they need balancing.... Why exactly?
-
3hp per level sound like decent idea. Ironflesh is infantry forte, and currently it's somehow lackluster.
-
I'd say let it add +1 armour and +1hp per point instead of +2 health.
-
It would be a nice idea to buff HIGHER levels of IF.
Lets say you should have at least have +3 Ironskin to gain an additional advantage.
The values might then look like this:
IF1: +2
+4
+6
+9(!)
+12
+15
and so on
-
Right, because they need balancing.... Why exactly?
The possibility to kill/be killed with one hit on long range runs counter-intuitive to being new and less skilled player friendly...
(to put it simply: Mount and blade, not bow and arrow or "well go play OP:F if you want one hit kills")
This subject is expanded on in the "To much damage overall?" topic
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2711.45.html
-
Katana is an easy first hitter?
weapon length 95
l2p
-
Xant is that all you do? Post the same "u are bad player" comment in every thread, but never add anything to the topic?
0/10 trolling
Anyway, let me give you a hand ... besides the point that 95 is about average (slightly in b4 "no the average is 96 durrr") for a sword, speed is its main strength... if you are having problems with using your own weapon of choice, attempt to maybe block (move your mouse/movement key into the same direction as the enemy swing and hit right mouse) the first strike, don't worry if you don't manage to do it at first, it takes some practice.
You are welcome to this little lesson on learning how to play, I hope you appreciate it.
-
... Average for a 2h sword would be closer to 120.
Btw, you can come teach me how to play in the duel server?
-
He's actually right, your posts never contributes anything to the threads. It's just arrogant bullshit.
-
*sighs* Already there... use pms for that kinda private message next time (thats what pm means btw)
-
> said the one dedicating his whole post to something that could've been sent in a PM
And nice job ignoring the fact that 95 "isn't" the average length for 2h.
-
I'm in the duel server, you are not... waiting, I could be leveling up just as well, this char is pretty freshly retired...
-
I'm in the duel server, you are not... waiting, I could be leveling up just as well, this char is pretty freshly retired...
Mmkay, come Ndition, low level at cRPG now.
-
Still waiting, come on dude, just duel with me... I've got a pitchfork and I will use it... and your missing out on the chance to boost about your "victory" forever...
-
Winning you would hardly be anything to boast about, I'm still in native duel if you wanna come teach me tho!
-
Nope, you are not and I'm tired of waiting for you... feel free to ask anyone on the duel server if Thtb was there, I did let them know that you are not able to stand up to your claims...
-
... Average for a 2h sword would be closer to 120.
Btw, you can come teach me how to play in the duel server?
120 is greatsword, it's not dueling weapon, it's formation weapon. Average reach for swords in game is inflated, it's stupid that greatswords are jack-of-all-trades-master-of-most, those should act as formation weapon and support weapons..
-
That doesn't have anything to do with what Thtb was claiming, though. It may or may not be ridiculous, but it still has more reach than a katana.
-
(slightly in b4 "no the average is 96 durrr")
That doesn't have anything to do with what Thtb was claiming, though. It may or may not be ridiculous, but it still has more reach than a katana.
Speed point still stands as well as the fact that you did not show up for the duel, so all you seem to able to do is off topic comments/trolling attempts.
-
Speed doesn't matter, with a longer range weapon you'll still get the first hit.
-
Speed doesn't matter
-
Tsk tsk. That's not how you do it. This is how you do it.
Speed doesn't matter, with a longer range weapon you'll still get the first hit.
Speed doesn't matter, with a longer range weapon.
Speed doesn't matter, with
Speed doesn't matter
doesn't matter
-
The possibility to kill/be killed with one hit on long range runs counter-intuitive to being new and less skilled player friendly...
(to put it simply: Mount and blade, not bow and arrow or "well go play OP:F if you want one hit kills")
This subject is expanded on in the "To much damage overall?" topic
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2711.45.html
This game has steep learning curve, and that's good (MP). It's far from one hit kill, no matter how hard you trying to say it is.
-
This game has steep learning curve, and that's good (MP). It's far from one hit kill, no matter how hard you trying to say it is.
I have to agree. People usually die from one hits if 1.) They get a solid couch 2.) They get a birthday to the face 3.) they are unarmored/tissue armored and they get a strong birthday to the pants 4.) An Ogre build decides to give you a hug.
1.) Couches are easy to avoid once you have even a mild grasp of the game and are paying attention (If you are not paying attention, then you get ganked, even from a guy with a rock this happens, welcome to life).
2.) When someone donates an implement of destruction to your face, it should be rewarded with massive (often lethal) damage. This rewards skill and luck, like practically ever game does with headshots. I see no problem with this issue.
3.) Armor is for a reason, and a carebear swinging 21 STR 7PS sword to your chest should leave a massive impression on your life, yes?
4.) If an Ogre build decides to bless your body with a 2Her, then you very well should die from that hyperspecialized character if he hits you with a solid hit and you do not have a top-tier armor and/or a lot of hitpoints with great armor. His disadvantage is that he lumbers around and his low agil and other things make him easy prey to agil-trolls and bolts and arrows and thrown bananas. I am also ok with this.
Yes, when someone OS you, then you will remember, but with all due respect, the vast majority of your deaths once you have a higher level balanced character (If you have a hyper specialized or lightly armoured character, then shut up about getting easily ganked in melee, you should be aware of your sacrifices so play accordingly. A glass cannon is a glass cannon.) you should be dying from two to four hits. Well armoured or fighting against weak foes will extend these hit amounts.
-
Last I heard the IF bonus was hardcoded into the game and the only way to change it up would be to make every 1 point of IF in the site count as 2 in the servers (so +4 hp for every one instead of 2). I think this was decided to be too much so IF seems doomed to be mostly useless.
Some one came up with an alternative to make IF only able to level up every 6 points of STR and make it the +4hp instead of the +2hp. Would do the same thing as now for less skill points maybe making it a more viable skill?
This tidbit of info is cold hard fact! Any suggestion of changing the value amount past this related info is moot.
Can we please change the subject to something related to using this cold hard fact and making changes around it, not through it. It's obvious IF is hard coded as +2 HP, now diregarding this guys statement/suggestion is like poking yourself in the eye. He made an awesome suggestion and I think we should use what he said and move with it.
We are fighting upstream if we keep thinking we can change hard coding values.
+1 to 6 STR GIVES A +4hp with one pt dump. It will free up points, especially freeing up the extra 2 pts needed to make a lvl 30 build into a lvl 31 build.
-
I can't believe people have neglected to mention Allers and I in this post
I have 95 HP and 74? (have to double check) armor
I one shot people
Normal people take 8-9 hits to kill me
As much as I would love to see IF get a buff and my character get stacked even more, god forbid, I toss the input that IF is fine as it stands
-
I can't believe people have neglected to mention Allers and I in this post
I have 95 HP and 74? (have to double check) armor
I one shot people
Normal people take 8-9 hits to kill me
As much as I would love to see IF get a buff and my character get stacked even more, god forbid, I toss the input that IF is fine as it stands
But i just killed you with a 6/30 build shhhh
-
IF is pointless unless your gunna stack it.
Nuff said.
-
Would be interesting to see IF change to 6 strength per 1 IF but giving you 4 hp, atm like cas said to see some real benefit from IF you need to use 4 stats+(I would say 6+ but) on it which is not something that is possible all the time.
-
Uhh 6 Str per 1 IF with 4 HP each just gives me more skill points to convert into str... I'm still happy