cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lt_Anders on March 07, 2012, 10:36:13 pm

Title: Stats DAY!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 07, 2012, 10:36:13 pm
Well I was browsing through the forums and in one of the normal lobby threads, CMP posted this jewel.
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:14 pm
(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 07, 2012, 10:38:12 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:31 pm
(click to show/hide)

So, NA likes Short 2hs, Has cav ego problem, and HORSE CROSSBOW IS BOSS.

EU, likes their Danishs, Katana is cool too, and they like 1h more.
What can YOU find?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Christo on March 07, 2012, 10:39:08 pm
Yeah.

Your point being?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 07, 2012, 10:40:47 pm
Quote from: Christo on March 07, 2012, 10:39:08 pm
Yeah.

Your point being?

Sorry couldn't put both on same post and had to wait 60 seconds. Just wanted everyone to see the cool stats!
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Christo on March 07, 2012, 10:41:37 pm
Ah, okay then.

Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:14 pm

Elegant Poleaxe                   10,207     0.06%

My weapon is so damn underplayed. oO
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 07, 2012, 10:44:17 pm
Where are the AUS and Asia Stats.

Here I'll post the AUS stats for you.

+3 Scimitart 33% +3 Nordic Champ Sword 33% Flamburg 33%. Stats done.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 07, 2012, 10:51:44 pm
NA1 -

TwoHander           9,277,779  24.50%
Polearm             7,929,018  20.93%
OneHander           5,576,296  14.72%
Polearm (mounted)   4,772,240  12.60%

I'd hardly say NA has cav ego problems...all mounted classes added together make up less than 20% total damage. 

It also tells me that I do about 1 million damage with my heavy lance on horse every month :)

Would be awesome to see personal stats on your crpg char page.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Osiris on March 07, 2012, 10:57:14 pm
NA
Bec de Corbin                      479,231    3.77%

EU
Bec de Corbin                     3,078      0.02%


That is why there is constant arguing about bec being OP/no it isnt :D

Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Hobb on March 07, 2012, 11:18:21 pm
Quote from: Osiris on March 07, 2012, 10:57:14 pm
NA
Bec de Corbin                      479,231    3.77%

EU
Bec de Corbin                     3,078      0.02%


That is why there is constant arguing about bec being OP/no it isnt :D



No the bec is on EU twice, with a total of 100k less than na, so ur wrong

Na just bitches more i guess
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Boerenlater on March 07, 2012, 11:28:25 pm
What are those numbers exactly? I can't imagine over 120,000 2h players on EU1.
Also what timeframe are these stats from?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 07, 2012, 11:29:17 pm
Quote from: Hobb on March 07, 2012, 11:18:21 pm
No the bec is on EU twice, with a total of 100k less than na, so ur wrong

Na just bitches more i guess
No, it's just that people USED to complain about the bec when it was used like crazy in NA a OVER HALF OF A YEAR AGO. Stats from long ago would have it as top NA pole arm damaging weapon for certain times.
Nobody actually gives a rat's ass about the bec anymore, it's short but does a lot of damage. It was nerfed accordingly back then and was fixed long ago.


Quote from: Boerenlater on March 07, 2012, 11:28:25 pm
What are those numbers exactly? I can't imagine over 120,000 2h players on EU1.
Also what timeframe are these stats from?
the stats are for damage not kills.

I think the real travesty is that less than 10 points of damage was done for stone/dart melee from horseback on NA.
No stone melee damage from horseback for eu.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Digglez on March 07, 2012, 11:41:30 pm
what do horse bump kills count as? the weapon rider is holding?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2012, 11:46:11 pm
War Spear                         590,172    3.53% 

I dont feel original anymore ._. But that is damage done right? maybe it is because of me it is in the top 5!
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Digglez on March 07, 2012, 11:48:22 pm
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2012, 11:46:11 pm
War Spear                         590,172    3.53% 

I dont feel original anymore ._. But that is damage done right? maybe it is because of me it is in the top 5!

no, it is straight up killing blows
corrected, due to poor measurement labeling by OP~
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Thovex on March 07, 2012, 11:54:58 pm
Arbalest (mounted)         1,234      0.04% 

wat

Quote from: Christo on March 07, 2012, 10:41:37 pm
Ah, okay then.

My weapon is so damn underplayed. oO

I made tons and tons of kills with that thing aagesss ago
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Casimir on March 07, 2012, 11:57:17 pm
just cos you cant reload it, doesn't mean you can't use it?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: joespose on March 08, 2012, 12:08:39 am
Smoke Bomb                   1,062    0.07% 
Smoke Bomb (mounted)         41       0.00% 

Now smoke bombs are pretty wtf i wasn't aware you could get killed by them but:

Siege Shield                 18       0.00% 

Really?
Who the fuck killed 18 people with a siege shield?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 12:14:37 am
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:31 pm

Polearm
---
Heavy Lance (mounted)              3,965,363  31.22%

I'm not surprised...
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 08, 2012, 12:52:57 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on March 07, 2012, 11:46:11 pm
War Spear                         590,172    3.53% 

I dont feel original anymore ._. But that is damage done right? maybe it is because of me it is in the top 5!
Number 1 NA swingable pole arm is war spear. Followed by bec of course. NOTE: I think damage done to horses is included as damage in these stats, hence why heavy lance/pike/long spear are so high.
Quote
Heavy Lance (mounted)              3,965,363  31.22%
Long Spear                         880,724    6.93%
Pike                               632,020    4.98%
War Spear                          503,263    3.96%
Bec de Corbin                      479,231    3.77% 


Quote from: Digglez on March 07, 2012, 11:48:22 pm
no, it is straight up killing blows
no. it is damage done.


Quote from: Thovex on March 07, 2012, 11:54:58 pm
Arbalest (mounted)         1,234      0.04% 

wat

I made tons and tons of kills with that thing aagesss ago
Quote from: Casimir on March 07, 2012, 11:57:17 pm
just cos you cant reload it, doesn't mean you can't use it?
Yeah, you can fire it but not reload it. You can ride around, shoot somebody, then park in a safe spot, reload, hop back on horse, repeat. No thanks though lol.



Quote from: joespose on March 08, 2012, 12:08:39 am
Smoke Bomb                   1,062    0.07% 
Smoke Bomb (mounted)         41       0.00% 

Now smoke bombs are pretty wtf i wasn't aware you could get killed by them but:

Siege Shield                 18       0.00% 

Really?
Who the fuck killed 18 people with a siege shield?
DAMAGE DONE over a month span. Not kills. and yeah, they do 1 damage when thrown; but gravity gives a pretty big speed bonus to slow objects falling.
I've been thinking of throwing siege shields down ladders at people in siege until i get a kill with one.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Zerran on March 08, 2012, 01:15:58 am
Quote from: Marathon on March 08, 2012, 12:52:57 am
NOTE: I think damage done to horses is included as damage in these stats, hence why heavy lance/pike/long spear are so high.

I'd say it's more likely because the pike and long spear are essentially a class of their own. Players that want a "dueling" style weapon have almost all the 2H and a huge number of polearms to choose from, players that want a heavy support role can choose the 2D polearms and have the overhead, or go all out and get either the pike or the longspear.

This is why these stats are worthless for balance purposes, there are a million lurking variables. Not to say they aren't interesting though.

On a side note, watch out for weapon secondary modes, they show up separately from the primary mode, which is why weapons like the poleaxes and bec are listed twice, once with a reasonable amount of damage and another with a tiny amount.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Christo on March 08, 2012, 01:19:48 am
Quote from: Zerran on March 08, 2012, 01:15:58 am
On a side note, watch out for weapon secondary modes, they show up separately from the primary mode, which is why weapons like the poleaxes and bec are listed twice, once with a reasonable amount of damage and another with a tiny amount.

Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:14 pm
Elegant Poleaxe                   257,043    1.54% 

Ah, makes sense then.

What I've seen was the alternate mode.

Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Renten on March 08, 2012, 01:23:36 am
EU polearm kills:
(click to show/hide)
Mounted Heavy lance is more kills than the next 9 polearms. That's including the Lance (mounted). Without that it'd be even more. It is just less than 6 times more kills than the 2nd place killer, the longspear.

US Polearms kills:
(click to show/hide)
Heavy lance (mounted) has more kills than the next 8 put together including the Lance (mounted). A bit more than 4 times more kills than the second place killer, the longspear.


This is rather surprising, since in comparison for EU two handers their first place is only the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th places added together or about 2.6 times more kills than 2nd place. For NA two hands the 2nd and 3rd place add up to first and first is less than double kills than second. I compared against 2h since they both prevent the use of a shield while in use. The kill difference between top scoring one handers is actually quite small.

Everything under this is me going insane. Ignore it.
Actually I may not be insane. It really does seem that for example the Polearm damage in the stats is actually the polearm + polearm (mounted) damage. Yet polearm (mounted) is another section that got rated. So without it polearms would only be 5% of the kills on EU, but that just seems to small.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Radament on March 08, 2012, 01:23:54 am
Siege Shield                 18       0.00% 

 :cry: buff siege shields pls
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Chris_P_Bacon on March 08, 2012, 01:35:16 am
TIL Flamberge is more popular than Heavy Bastard Sword.
Edit: Or at least the damage to popularity ratio is higher.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: robert_namo on March 08, 2012, 09:45:53 am
The nodachi needs a buff according to these stats.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: obitus on March 08, 2012, 09:58:17 am
these stats aren't very informative.  we need to know the PROPORTION OF PLAYERS USING THESE WEAPONS so we can weight the kills against that.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: [ptx] on March 08, 2012, 09:59:15 am
It is damage, not kills! Was said multiple times, both on the original thread and here, l2read.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Spawny on March 08, 2012, 10:15:18 am
Quote from: obitus on March 08, 2012, 09:58:17 am
these stats aren't very informative.  we need to know the PROPORTION OF PLAYERS USING THESE WEAPONS so we can weight the kills against that.

Very important if you want to make inferences based on this data set.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: dodnet on March 08, 2012, 10:17:56 am
Quote from: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 07, 2012, 10:44:17 pm
Where are the AUS and Asia Stats.

Here I'll post the AUS stats for you.

+3 Scimitart 33% +3 Nordic Champ Sword 33% Flamburg 33%. Stats done.

What about the 1% thats missing?  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Paul on March 08, 2012, 10:21:20 am
Quote from: dodnet on March 08, 2012, 10:17:56 am
What about the 1% thats missing?  :mrgreen:

On Criminal's Island stuff just disappears.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Tzar on March 08, 2012, 10:24:37 am
Thread is useless since it donst count kills
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Casimir on March 08, 2012, 10:59:06 am
That 1% is fist kills, because they are that boss.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Chagan_Arslan on March 08, 2012, 10:59:16 am
im just wondering if those stats include damage done to horses, class that dehorse a lot will have much higher numbers in the end
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Wookimonsta on March 08, 2012, 03:41:24 pm
this is just propaganda by the polearm lobby. These stats are obviously fake.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Arrowblood on March 08, 2012, 03:53:44 pm
longbow should have the price of the hornbow.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Phew on March 08, 2012, 03:55:24 pm
Are the NA Siege stats posted anywhere? I don't play Battle (i.e. watching grass grow).

I bet the Great Maul/Mallet damage on Siege is over-the-top ridiculous.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: MR_FISTA on March 08, 2012, 04:07:47 pm
Long war axe is super op on siege, I'l stick with my Long hafted Knobbed Mace, I just love the noise it makes when it hits people in the face.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Phew on March 08, 2012, 04:43:41 pm
I made a 21/18 STF mauler, and even naked I could stand on top of a ladder on Siege defense and get 10 kills a round doing overheads with my eyes closed. A couple clans have figured out that crushthrough=siege defense win, and it's annoying as hell to face, because it has NO counter.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Casimir on March 08, 2012, 04:57:49 pm
thrower / archer / crossbow / non retarded 1h.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Fartface on March 08, 2012, 10:29:42 pm
Quote from: Casimir on March 08, 2012, 04:57:49 pm
thrower / archer / crossbow / non retarded 1h.
1h is no counter to maulers , im 36 str mauler and there short wep makes it alot easier for me to get close or avoid there slash and hit my overhead, there our best targets.
And thrower archer and crossbow dont hit me easier than anything else.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Turboflex on March 08, 2012, 10:54:09 pm
twice as much throwing on NA I found to be interesting
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Phew on March 08, 2012, 10:54:42 pm
Casimir, surely you have played siege before. Every map with ladders has protection for defenders on either side of the ladder, where they are shielded from ranged. By the time you can even see the mauler, you are within their overhead range. The only "counter" is to pour in like lemmings, hoping a few people make it past the gauntlet. Idiot attacking archers that stop on the ladders always prevent this though.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 11:29:52 pm
Suggestion, new stats for some weapons:

Danish GS
speed 93
cut 43
thrust 29

German GS
speed 93
cut 40
thrust 31
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 11:39:28 pm
Quote from: cmpxchg8b on March 05, 2012, 03:12:31 pm

Crossbow
---
Crossbow                   971,636  33.26%
Light Crossbow (mounted)   971,368  33.25%
Arbalest                   444,463  15.21%
Light Crossbow             308,871  10.57%
Heavy Crossbow             146,748  5.02% 
Hunting Crossbow           60,384   2.07% 
Hunting Crossbow (mounted) 12,785   0.44% 
Arbalest (mounted)         3,526    0.12% 
Crossbow (mounted)         1,719    0.06% 
Heavy Crossbow (mounted)   36       0.00% 


Shows how OP those fucking 1 slot xbows are, how bout make all xbows 2 slots (except hunting xbow) so that this reduces the amount of bolts an xbow cav can shoot, and that people can't use it as a "sidearm".

Edit: Oh and uh nerf xbow cav, shits OP as hell.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Kafein on March 08, 2012, 11:46:01 pm
It's funny to see the differences between continents.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 11:48:39 pm
Quote from: Kafein on March 08, 2012, 11:46:01 pm
It's funny how the melee differences between continents somewhat settled down but the xbow stats are nearly complete opposites.
That's cuz your EU servers don't have like 10 xbow cavs running around, I rather play in EU servers sometimes when i face this issue -.-
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 11:52:47 pm
Quote from: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 11:48:39 pm
That's cuz your EU servers don't have like 10 xbow cavs running around, I rather play in EU servers sometimes when i face this issue -.-

We had more than 10 buzzing around but not atm.

Shogunate alts, Nordmen alts...
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 11:53:49 pm
Quote from: Leshma on March 08, 2012, 11:52:47 pm
We had more than 10 buzzing around but not atm.

Shogunate alts, Nordmen alts...
Your talking bout alts, these are not alts for example, the SEMENstorm clan a.k.a Rohypnol and a bunch of other my old friends on a horse with mw light xbows and mw steel bolts.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Kafein on March 09, 2012, 12:04:53 am
Ninja edit.

There are some massive melee differences, especially regarding a bias towards long weapons for EU and short weapons for NA. This might actually explain why is WM valued more in EU too, as long weapons are slower and thus benefit more from wpf.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 09, 2012, 12:30:27 am
Quote from: LastKaze on March 08, 2012, 11:39:28 pm
Shows how OP those fucking 1 slot xbows are, how bout make all xbows 2 slots (except hunting xbow) so that this reduces the amount of bolts an xbow cav can shoot, and that people can't use it as a "sidearm".

Edit: Oh and uh nerf xbow cav, shits OP as hell.

I agree with this, will stop melee spec people from running around with an xbow.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Cyclopsided on March 09, 2012, 01:29:09 am
Quote from: Kafein on March 09, 2012, 12:04:53 am
Ninja edit.

There are some massive melee differences, especially regarding a bias towards long weapons for EU and short weapons for NA. This might actually explain why is WM valued more in EU too, as long weapons are slower and thus benefit more from wpf.
we value athletics as the only reason to get agi for 2h / pole only melee chars. Letting us do 24/18 builds and such.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Kivlov on March 09, 2012, 03:26:04 am
Quote from: Lemmy_Winks on March 09, 2012, 12:30:27 am
I agree with this, will stop melee spec people from running around with an xbow.
No, it'll just ruin a lot of peoples builds. It doesn't address crossbows not needing WPF to be good or HXbows being irritating as hell.

Horse Crossbows are only problematic when the player is skilled and has heirloomed gear like ROH. All his clones suck at it because they lack not only the looms, but the ability to compensate for their horses movement. It's similar to a lot of archers not compensating for arrows being lower than the crosshair which is why a lot of would be head/body shots hit lower.

The problem isn't it being overpowered, but that they draw rounds out longer than they would be if they weren't horse xbow.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Penguin on March 09, 2012, 07:49:26 am
I think we could come to a medium here. Instead of just outright nerfing xbow cav, just severely impede their speed while they are reloading. It makes sense as far as "realism" goes (xbow cav? really) and it also will force HX's to be smart about where and when they reload
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 09, 2012, 05:03:41 pm
I hate xbow cavs, but I respect them greatly (like most of the playstyles and people I "hate").  They serve a purpose, that purpose is keeping other cavalry off their friendly infantry.  They are pretty damn good at destroying horses, not so good at killing 20 enemy infantry when they're the last one alive.

They serve a purpose, yes they can be annoying, yes it's probably not historically accurate, but they are just as much serving a vital role as anyone else, every time they hit an enemy horse they are helping their team win.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Turboflex on March 09, 2012, 05:59:59 pm
I agree they really dont bother me until the end when you have 100 people waiting for them to stop dragging on a round. As a class itself they aren't very OP, it's just the social problems they cause.

That's why I think an anti-stalling rule would be best, force them to dismount when they are only ones left, or better yet, fix master of field flags so they appear faster (maybe after 15 seconds of no kill, when there's 2:30 mins or less left).
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 09, 2012, 06:45:15 pm
Yeah turbo I totally agree that fixing MotF would fix a lot of these issues, and horse xbows wouldn't have such a bad rep.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 10, 2012, 01:45:56 am
Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 09, 2012, 05:03:41 pm
They serve a purpose, yes they can be annoying, yes it's probably not historically accurate,

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

16th century French mounted crossbowman ("cranequinier"). His crossbow is drawn with a rack-and-pinion "cranequin", so it can be used while riding.

They were historically accurate. Ment to combat Enemy HAs. Also wearing plate armor.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Phew on March 19, 2012, 10:24:11 pm
Why am I not surprised it was the French that championed this "horse crossbow" tactic. That drawing is probably inaccurate though, as it seems like the rider would have trouble firing backwards while retreating.

Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: BoZo on March 20, 2012, 09:54:40 am
The Chinese also had crossbow cavalry.

(click to show/hide)
http://www.chinaahistoryofwarfare.com/blog/576052-han-dynasty-horse/
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Spawny on March 20, 2012, 10:20:53 am
Since when did HC's become a bigger threat/problem/annoyance than HA's?
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Christo on March 20, 2012, 10:27:35 am
Quote from: Spawny on March 20, 2012, 10:20:53 am
Since when did HC's become a bigger threat/problem/annoyance than HA's?

It's more of a NA problem, really.

I mean, on IRC I see NA players QQ-ing about pikes a lot, while on EU pikes aren't that much of a problem.
Same goes for the bec for an example.
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: sF_Guardian on March 21, 2012, 09:51:45 pm
So horse-Arbalest is included :D
I, ve done that for one gen :D
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: TheAppleSauceMan on December 07, 2012, 07:20:49 pm
Hate to necro, but some more stats like this would be awesome, see how the patches have affected the community!  :)
Title: Re: Stats DAY!
Post by: Haboe on December 07, 2012, 07:35:03 pm
derp:

Long Awlpike (mounted)            844        0.01%
Arbalest (mounted)         1,234      0.04%
Pickaxe                               324        0.00%