cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Tomas on February 24, 2012, 10:51:15 pm

Title: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 24, 2012, 10:51:15 pm
Currently, inactive and active players both make upto 168 goods per week.  Instead we would like to propose that goods get crafted according to cRPG ticks - with a maximum number of goods crafted per week.

To help gauge peoples view on this we have added a poll with the following question:

YES or NO - should Strat goods production be cRPG activity based?

Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: AreTreble on February 24, 2012, 10:58:44 pm
How would this enhance the current system? Also, wouldn't this require re-designing the item crafting skills? If I can make 30 MW armors in 1 crpg tick... well... that may be a little much.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Garem on February 24, 2012, 11:00:02 pm
Yes, yes, yes.

AreTreble, I wouldn't get mired down in the details. This is a question of principle, I think. Do you want to be rewarded more for activity (than the current system)?
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Mike_of_Kingswell on February 24, 2012, 11:09:39 pm
I cant see how lots and lots of inactive ppl that dont do anything but logging on once every 5 weeks should have a massive impace on start.

Haveing a system that involves activity but does NOT overpower superactive ppl compared to casual players would be a good change!

+1

€ AreTreble :

As i understood it its about crafting goods which would be tradegoods
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: AreTreble on February 24, 2012, 11:26:57 pm
Quote
€ AreTreble :

As i understood it its about crafting goods which would be tradegoods

I'm +1 for giving more power to the active players. But I think if this were to be implemented it should be inclusive of both trade goods and crafting equipment; especially if the idea is to prevent factions from having inactive player sweat shops
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 12:39:31 am
Quote from: AreTreble on February 24, 2012, 11:26:57 pm
I'm +1 for giving more power to the active players. But I think if this were to be implemented it should be inclusive of both trade goods and crafting equipment; especially if the idea is to prevent factions from having inactive player sweat shops

It doesn't need to include equipment crafting as that is already activity based due to chadz text.  That is another discussion though.  This is purely about goods crafting at the moment
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 01:41:49 am
I think this is a reasonable idea.

I suggest the following implementation:

* Each tick creates a "work" value in Strategus.  10 ticks = 10 "work".  This could be further modified by the multiplier so 10 ticks of x5 = 50 work

* When you create trade goods, you burn "work".  Maybe 10 work = 1 good or whatever makes sense (it's a tick per minute, isn't it?  So if you play for 4 hours, that's 24 hours worth of goods you can produce -- or potentially 5 days worth if you had x5 for all 4 hours.  Basically anyone playing for a couple hours a night with reasonable multipliers can probably produce goods non-stop or close to it.)

* When you are out of work, you can't make any more goods.

This COULD be applied to all crafting but I don't think that's necessary.  Armies of alts crafting swords is not a problem in any way I can think of.  Armies of alts creating goods can definitely be a problem.

This way only active players can make tradegoods.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 04:05:51 am
Strat =/= Crpg

It is a terrible idea. If Strat is just about who can grind out the most epic gear playing crpg then this is even worse than the current system. Not everyone has time to grind for strat nor wants to. I would agree with a more active system within strategus but it should have as little to do with crpg as possible.

Does not matter if you have a horde of inactives, if all your guys are inactive then you do not have people to use this gear, or to send out caravans, to do diplomacy with other clans, to plot and scheme. So you will fail anyway. Just because the current version of strat for the majority only requires you to log in once a week and transfer your trade goods does not mean they are inactive, it is just that for the average clan member in this iteration of strat that is all there is to do for the clan wide trade good production machine to function. Not everyone can be a general, nor a trader, most people like real life have to do the boring grind.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Lizard_man on February 25, 2012, 04:29:52 am
Nice idea, also, i think crafting heirloomed items should be scrapped, make them buyable but more expensive...
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Jarlek on February 25, 2012, 05:10:24 am
Quote from: Lizard_man on February 25, 2012, 04:29:52 am
Nice idea, also, i think crafting heirloomed items should be scrapped, make them buyable but more expensive...
Personally I would like an upgradeable, and not buyable heriloomed version. You can craft/buy a normal item, and if you've gotten the chadztext with any loomed version of it, you should be able to upgrade it for a gold/time/resource fee (or any combination) and get it loomed.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 06:17:19 am
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 04:05:51 am
Strat =/= Crpg

It is a terrible idea. If Strat is just about who can grind out the most epic gear playing crpg then this is even worse than the current system. Not everyone has time to grind for strat nor wants to. I would agree with a more active system within strategus but it should have as little to do with crpg as possible.

Does not matter if you have a horde of inactives, if all your guys are inactive then you do not have people to use this gear, or to send out caravans, to do diplomacy with other clans, to plot and scheme. So you will fail anyway. Just because the current version of strat for the majority only requires you to log in once a week and transfer your trade goods does not mean they are inactive, it is just that for the average clan member in this iteration of strat that is all there is to do for the clan wide trade good production machine to function. Not everyone can be a general, nor a trader, most people like real life have to do the boring grind.

Your argument makes no sense.  You consider playing cRPG to be a "grind"?  I am wondering, why are you here?

There is a very real problem with having 10 active players and 100 fake alts that do nothing but produce goods for you.  Strategus should be an extension of cRPG (at least until this game becomes an MMOG and people can play Strategus exclusively...)

And cRPG already == Strategus.

cRPG ticks = Strat gold
Strat ticks = cRPG XP
cRPG = Strat crafting skills

What we are suggesting is:
cRPG ticks = Strat goods

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Lordark on February 25, 2012, 10:22:08 am
Nice idea but really it would make casuals rage compared to those who play. People who play lots make strat gold so that is good enough edge I guess....
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 10:59:24 am
Quote from: Lordark on February 25, 2012, 10:22:08 am
Nice idea but really it would make casuals rage compared to those who play. People who play lots make strat gold so that is good enough edge I guess....

There's another thought, actually.

We could just make the gold generated by playing be a much larger amount than it currently is.

Right now, gold generated from playing is nothing compared to what you can generate with trade goods.

1 day of trade goods = ~840 gold (via the trade deals I arrange)
1 day of playing for 3 hours = ~180 gold

We could increase gold generated in gameplay by 5x and while armies of drones would still dominate the Strategus economy, active players could make a sizable contribution as well, just from playing cRPG.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 25, 2012, 11:56:47 am
This dicks me pretty hard. I'm very active in strat but now the AUS comunity is dead I don't think I'm going to be able keep rolling on NA, luck based fraging gets very boring... So if this was brought in all the effort I have put into crafting would = 0. Multiple gens of crusing around begging for a crafting tick sent straight to hell. Not to mention impossible it would make basic trading.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 12:13:36 pm
Strat Battles also get ticks so could count towards your goods generation too.

If you can't play cRPG and don't play Strat Battles then you really are inactive and shouldn't be benefitting a clan in Strat
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Gurnisson on February 25, 2012, 01:17:02 pm
Reward cRPG grind even more? I thought that part was mostly removed because it made strategus less strategical.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 02:11:48 pm
Quote from: Gurnisson on February 25, 2012, 01:17:02 pm
Reward cRPG grind even more? I thought that part was mostly removed because it made strategus less strategical.

You don't have to reward "grind" here.

For instance using Slamz work idea you could have it so that 1 hour of play generates enough "work" to last 24 hours on Strat.  That is hardly grinding and is definitely in the realms of casual play.

Playing more than 1 hour per day would just stockpile "work" for future use but there could be a limit to a players stockpile of say 2 weeks worth of "work". This would cater for binge players and people who go on holiday allowing them to build up "work" and then spend it during their periods of lesser activity.

This is just an example of how it could be done.  There are plenty more methods out there.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 06:00:35 pm
Quote from: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 06:17:19 am
Your argument makes no sense.  You consider playing cRPG to be a "grind"?  I am wondering, why are you here?

There is a very real problem with having 10 active players and 100 fake alts that do nothing but produce goods for you.  Strategus should be an extension of cRPG (at least until this game becomes an MMOG and people can play Strategus exclusively...)

And cRPG already == Strategus.

cRPG ticks = Strat gold
Strat ticks = cRPG XP
cRPG = Strat crafting skills

What we are suggesting is:
cRPG ticks = Strat goods

Your argument is bad and you should feel bad.

Your comprehension betrays lack of basic ability.

I did not say CRPG is a grind, I said I did not want to have to grind strategus goods and equipment by playing crpg.
--> However for the record CRPG is a grind if you play the whole ridiculous generations grind for heirlooms, which I don't.

Fail 1 on comprehension.

---

What exactly about my argument is bad? Assuming you actually were able to identify my argument I should imagine you will be able to make some point of some sort to show how these alleged "inactives" really are inactive, you know as opposed to simply playing the game in the limited capacity that you are able to in the current iteration of strategus. However I notice instead you just type bullshit such as "10 active players and 100 fake alts". This is surely not the case, it is well known that having alternate accounts is against the rules and also well known that people have been banned, en-masse for this sort of thing.

Likewise we have other people on your side of this debate saying hyperbolic nonsense like "lol people just log in once every 5 weeks" which also is clearly not the case as if you do not log in weekly then you get teleported to a random location.

---

As I previously stated these people who log in at least once a week, make sure they still have gold for crafting, transferring the goods to their superiors and so on are not inactive, they are not drones any more than how the admittedly boring mechanics of strategus might make you into one. They are active, to the extent that is is possible for the majority of clan players to be active. Do you not understand this? Are you trying not to? Or can you truly not read?

---

If the problem as you say actually is that these are fake accounts then clearly the solution is to enforce the already established rules that ban this kind of behavior. Not completely change the mechanics of the game into some bullshit grindathon where strategy is irrelevant compared to grinding time.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Olwen on February 25, 2012, 06:10:18 pm
the At fifteen, I had the will to  learn ; at thirty, I could stand ; at forty, I had no  doubts ; at fifty, I understood the heavenly Bidding ;  at sixty, my ears were opened ; at seventy, I could  do as my heart lusted without trespassing from the  square., isn't it ?
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 07:12:11 pm
The only way I could support this is if it only made Strategus FASTER and not slower, for anyone, at all.

You already gain a strat benefit for playing c-RPG (more gold to craft with.. ) but you can be bankrolled by your faction, or make a big trading profit in order to idle.  And that's just fine.  Strat is basically a web-based game with action battles.

So.. not voting.  But, if you could propose a way that gave you a bonus to crafting goods for playing c-RPG (without causing a lot of additional gold loss) I could get behind that.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 08:24:45 pm
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 06:00:35 pm
I did not say CRPG is a grind, I said I did not want to have to grind strategus goods and equipment by playing crpg.
--> However for the record CRPG is a grind if you play the whole ridiculous generations grind for heirlooms, which I don't.

We must be using different definitions of "grind".

Grind - Doing something time consuming and repetitive which is not fun.  "It was a real grind getting max level in Aion."

Anything that's enjoyable is not a grind.  What you call a "generations grind" just seems like me having fun killing people and I incidentally get heirlooms while doing it, so not a grind by my definition.  (And if you really don't have fun playing and really consider normal gameplay to be a grind, then why play?)

Quote
I should imagine you will be able to make some point of some sort to show how these alleged "inactives" really are inactive

My definition of "inactive" is "anyone who isn't playing cRPG".

Strategus is not a stand-alone game and it clearly wasn't meant to be.  You earn gold in Strategus by playing cRPG.  You earn crafting points in Strategus by playing cRPG.  You get cRPG XP by playing in Strategus battles.  Strategus is tethered to cRPG so therefore anyone not playing cRPG is "inactive".

The only reason to "play Strategus" without playing cRPG is to earn gold for someone's clan even though you aren't playing the game.  e.g., "Hey, my closest 100 Steam friends, come sign into this thing and produce goods for me.  You don't even have to play!"

It makes Strategus into a complete joke.  It's no longer a cRPG fight, it's a Facebook battle to see who can bring in the most squatters.

Quote
This is surely not the case, it is well known that having alternate accounts is against the rules and also well known that people have been banned, en-masse for this sort of thing.

Nobody is getting banned for simply having squatters come produce goods for them, which is my definition of "fake alts".  They are fake because they are not real cRPG players.  They are your buddy from work who never plays, your cousin who never plays, your neighbor who never plays, etc.  They come from different IPs, so they are considered legitimate under the current rules.  My argument is that they shouldn't be.  Inactive cRPG players should not be able to have as powerful of an influence on Strategus as an active player.

Quote
As I previously stated these people who log in at least once a week, make sure they still have gold for crafting, transferring the goods to their superiors and so on are not inactive, they are not drones

I disagree.  These people are indistinguishable from squatters that have never played a day of cRPG in their lives.



I'll sum up:

Strategus should be for cRPG players.  Not your league of Facebook friends that you convinced to log in once a week to transfer goods to you.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: engurrand on February 25, 2012, 08:25:11 pm
This is a really good idea.

It basically makes people who suck but play a lot have more of a role in strat..

The details are important though, because you can deviate from the principle rather quickly. The real question is how much do you want to increase the rate of production.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: dynamike on February 25, 2012, 08:29:31 pm
Can't say I support it: I play frequently whenever I can. This can be several hours a day. But then there are lots of times when I am away on a business trip for a whole week and cannot play at all. Should my faction suffer from that? No.

Unless we take a weighted average over several weeks into consideration, a no from me.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Count_Curtis on February 25, 2012, 08:32:16 pm
How can you craft things on strategus if you are on holliday?
makes perfect sense, +1
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: engurrand on February 25, 2012, 08:42:17 pm
well i think its time to start to consider the scenarios of different details.

here is one set of details...

crafting rate / whatever rate is very slow when you are not active yet very high when you are. This would give a lot more power to individuals who played a lot, yes.... and if would mean that if you played a lot you would be vital member of your faction.



Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 08:42:37 pm
Quote from: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 07:12:11 pm
The only way I could support this is if it only made Strategus FASTER and not slower, for anyone, at all.

You already gain a strat benefit for playing c-RPG (more gold to craft with.. )

My idea of increasing gold generation from playing cRPG would have that result (for real, active players, anyway).

As I mentioned earlier, 3 hours of playing cRPG will get you around 180 Strategus gold -- if you have a 50% discount, that will afford you *1* Sword of War (and you'd better have a 0 upkeep army).


Basically my problem is this:

Player A:
Plays cRPG for 3 hours a day.  Scouts the map rather than making goods.

Player B:
Does not play cRPG.  He's your friend from Facebook and he logs in once a week and transfers goods to you because you asked him to.


Player B's financial input into Strategus is easily 5x greater than Player A's financial input even though player B has never held a sword in his life.

"Who can bring in the most Facebook friends" should not be the dominate factor in Strategus economies.  In my opinion.

Quote from: dynamike on February 25, 2012, 08:29:31 pm
But then there are lots of times when I am away on a business trip for a whole week and cannot play at all. Should my faction suffer from that?

Should they "suffer"?  No.  Should they continue to benefit from you while you are gone and not playing?  No.

It's no different than any other game.  Gotta play to win.  People who go inactive shouldn't still be weighing in as major financial contributors to their factions.

However, if we make the formula such that 1 hour of play generally gets you 24 hours of goods production then anyone who averages 90 minutes a day will be building up a backlog of work hours that they can burn while on vacation.  They'd also be building up a backlog anytime they move in Strategus or anytime they spend crafting arms rather than goods.  I would cap the work storage at 2 weeks worth.


If you haven't played cRPG at all in 2 weeks, there is no reason you should still be able to crank goods in Strategus.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 09:10:24 pm
Quote from: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 08:42:37 pm
Basically my problem is this:

Player A:
Plays cRPG for 3 hours a day.  Scouts the map rather than making goods.

Player B:
Does not play cRPG.  He's your friend from Facebook and he logs in once a week and transfers goods to you because you asked him to.


Player B's financial input into Strategus is easily 5x greater than Player A's financial input even though player B has never held a sword in his life.
You're comparing two different roles, though - they're both providing a valuable service to their group.  Player B likely also has troop upkeep to consider, and perhaps Player B is assisting him on that front, by providing Player C with some goods to deliver to a faraway land so that gold may trickle down to the border patrol.

If Player A and Player B were both crafting the same goods, Player B would have to be bankrolled while Player A could cover the costs in cRPG.

When you're talking about a Sword of War, you already can get chadztext in-game to reduce the crafting cost.  Plus, people like Player B combined with Player C in my above example can crank out a LOT of gold when the time is right.  Player A from another faction can intercept Player C and take the loot.  Not really that bad of a system...


Edit: I am not entirely opposed to making  people play a little bit of cRPG in order to continue playing Strategus, but I like that Strategus has a pretty casual feel to it.  Maybe if you just added some sort of "Personal Gold" which will be refilled by playing cRPG that would take care of it.  An average of 30 mins of gameplay/day stored up to a week or two would probably be manageable for anyone.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 09:40:01 pm
Quote from: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 07:12:11 pm
The only way I could support this is if it only made Strategus FASTER and not slower, for anyone, at all.

You already gain a strat benefit for playing c-RPG (more gold to craft with.. ) but you can be bankrolled by your faction, or make a big trading profit in order to idle.  And that's just fine.  Strat is basically a web-based game with action battles.

So.. not voting.  But, if you could propose a way that gave you a bonus to crafting goods for playing c-RPG (without causing a lot of additional gold loss) I could get behind that.

The pace of Strat is completely seperate and can be changed at any time by merely increasing the base prices of goods.  These are details however which can be calculated/decided if the proposal is accepted by the Devs
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 09:46:46 pm
Quote from: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 09:10:24 pm
Edit: I am not entirely opposed to making  people play a little bit of cRPG in order to continue playing Strategus, but I like that Strategus has a pretty casual feel to it.  Maybe if you just added some sort of "Personal Gold" which will be refilled by playing cRPG that would take care of it.  An average of 30 mins of gameplay/day stored up to a week or two would probably be manageable for anyone.

That is exactly Slamz idea - you call it "Personal Gold", whereas he calls it "Work Hours".
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 10:47:40 pm
Why should I have to play more crpg to play strat? Strat is the only reason I am here.

Just because you can say facebook a hundred times does not mean you have an argument. Anyway I made my point.

What you need though is some reasoning as to the why of this statement:

Quote
If you haven't played cRPG at all in 2 weeks, there is no reason you should still be able to crank goods in Strategus.

While refraining from use of the word "Facebook".
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Beat on February 25, 2012, 11:21:18 pm
I agree with Slamz's idea for the most part but 60 ticks of cRPG play is too much to ask for 24 hours of crafting.  That would require 7 hours of cRPG a week to be fully active in Strategus.  Some of us don't have 7 hours a week to devote to video games period, let alone this one game.  It should be anywhere from 20-30 ticks for 24 hours (2.5-3.5 hours a week) of crafting with cap of 2-3 weeks built up.  I don't think a multiplier should affect it in any way, playing is playing.  We'd just have to watch out for a potential increase in leechers if this practice is as widespread as you suggest and there are already systems to deal with that.

Perhaps making ticks in Strategus battles worth substantially more than cRPG ticks would be a good addition to the above idea but we should also consider other ways of dealing with this issue than a playtime requirement.  I am very active in Strategus, both in crafting, moving around on the map and battles. I love strategy games and look forward to the further development of Strategus.  Although I play cRPG often, there are some weeks that I don't play much and I'm sure there are other players like me.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 11:31:53 pm
A question for you in return Plazek

Why does a person that does not play cRPG and does not play Strat Battles need to be able to craft goods on Strat?

You play Strat Battles and would therefore generate work like that under Slamz suggestion so would not be adversely affected by it.  Why are you fighting so hard for people that are clearly not interested in actually playing Strat either at that moment in time or at all?
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: RibaldRon on February 25, 2012, 11:43:26 pm
Quote from: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 09:46:46 pm
That is exactly Slamz idea - you call it "Personal Gold", whereas he calls it "Work Hours".
Ah yeah, you're right.  The numbers in his post are a bit low so it must have just slipped my mind or been in the back until that point.

Well, I would support a solution like that if we can keep the numbers casual.  There are a LOT of players who DO NOT play c-RPG at all, and only log into strat to transfer goods, and I can understand that as a problem.  I just hope the solution is not *too* radical.   (I.E. what I understand of the OP: You play to craft, and if you play a lot you craft a lot.)
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 11:53:25 pm
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 25, 2012, 10:47:40 pm
What you need though is some reasoning as to the why of this statement:
If you haven't played cRPG at all in 2 weeks, there is no reason you should still be able to crank goods in Strategus.

Because it will cause a lot of problems.

I actually have a guild of well over 100 members that I have been running for literally years.  They are MMORPG players presently playing Rift and SWTOR.  Most of them aren't interested in cRPG but if I asked nicely during a weekend Steam sale of Warband I'm sure I could convince a good number of them to buy Warband and make accounts here just to log in once a week and feed me goods (I pay for their Vent server -- they owe me one!)


Is that the Strategus you really want?  Where outside, non-cRPG influence completely dominates the game?  *I* think that's exceedingly lame, which is why I haven't done it.



How about this instead: for every $5 we send chadz, he will give us an additional login that we can use to generate goods with.  This is basically what your suggestion amounts to.  It's no longer a game of skill or diplomacy -- it's a game of "who can get the most logins".

I think the bottom line problem is that "number of accounts" matters far, far more than "numbers of active players".  10 people who login once a week will make far more cash than 5 people who play 10 hours a day (this is not a hyperbole -- do the math if you like).

So how do we solve this problem?  How do we prevent outside influence from dominating Strategus?  How do we keep the focus on people who actually like and play the game?

Quote from: Beat on February 25, 2012, 11:21:18 pm
I agree with Slamz's idea for the most part but 60 ticks of cRPG play is too much to ask for 24 hours of crafting.

I'm flexible on the numbers.  Basically I want to separate "people who play" from "people who don't play".  I don't think 1 hour a day for "full time" is too much to ask.  Does every player have to be full time?  Even if you only play 15 minutes a day, that's still helping the clan, albeit not as much as someone who plays an hour a day.

There could even be something of a tiered system to reward both casual and hard core players:

First 30 ticks = 1 "work" per tick
Next 30 ticks = .5 "work" per tick
After that = .25 "work" per tick

So people who really do play 6 hours a day will get more "work" points for goods but it's diminishing returns.  If you play 30 minutes, you've gotten the low hanging fruit.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on February 25, 2012, 11:56:46 pm
Addendum:

Fighting in a Strat battle could generate x5 (or more) "work" per tick.

So people who say, "I only like Strategus" would still be able to produce goods if they actually fight in Strategus battles.

If you don't play cRPG and you don't fight in Strategus battles, then I re-iterate that you have no business producing goods and being a major economic factor, for reasons I described above.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 26, 2012, 12:36:39 am
Quote from: Tomas on February 25, 2012, 11:31:53 pm
A question for you in return Plazek

Why does a person that does not play cRPG and does not play Strat Battles need to be able to craft goods on Strat?

You play Strat Battles and would therefore generate work like that under Slamz suggestion so would not be adversely affected by it.  Why are you fighting so hard for people that are clearly not interested in actually playing Strat either at that moment in time or at all?

Because often there is not a good strategus battle worth fighting in. It would also create the perverse situation where in peace and not fighting battles your economic production would decrease.

---

Sure you could go and ask all these people to do this for you and good luck to you with it. Maybe you would get 100 people to come and work for you, while I am not sure this is necessarily ideal I prefer it to a situation where I have to log hours of crpg every day to remain competitive in strategus.

But hell if you are able to get all these people to come then more power to you. I am not necessarily sure it is such a terrible idea as you say. Who are these clans with all these inactive hordes anyway.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on February 26, 2012, 02:30:03 am
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on February 26, 2012, 12:36:39 am
Because often there is not a good strategus battle worth fighting in. It would also create the perverse situation where in peace and not fighting battles your economic production would decrease.

So a system that encourages more battles and more wars is a bad thing?  If your members that only want to play Strat Battles don't have enough Strat Battles to play in then it is us to you as their leader to provide them with interesting battles to fight in.  You don't even have to declare war on someone to do this as after 4 months of Strat there are still neutral fiefs to take.

For the record under Slamz x5 suggestion for Strat Battles it would only take 84 mins to gain 1 weeks worth of crafting.  This isn't exactly promoting global scale war. However to make it even easier travelling in Strat could gain you work hours but at a reduced rate.  If you are travelling, then you are active and attackable and therefore you are a functioning part of Strategus so it isn't unbalanced or against the OP principal.  You could even have it so that the more troops you lead and the better their equipment, the more work hours you get.  With the 2 week work hour stockpile limit then this again won't unbalance Strat if the right numbers are used.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Garem on February 26, 2012, 02:35:03 am
It is a good principle to have that the more involved you are in the community (playing cRPG, for example) the more you should be rewarded for it.

Rewarding people simply for existing (or buying several accounts) but not adding to the game/community is bad.

TL;DR
Reward PLAYERS, not NON-PLAYERS.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Garem on February 26, 2012, 02:36:09 am
Edit: Double post? Weird.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on March 03, 2012, 09:11:00 pm
Bump to put this back up the list for more votes and also ask if any Devs are willing acknowledge it
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: HarunYahya on March 03, 2012, 10:09:42 pm
Ffs i can't craft any weapons and shit to my faction cuz i quit retiring before chadztext implemented , i am not a hardcore cRPG gamer but i am an officer in Empire and running strategus business if that shit gets implemented , i will be completely useful so big NO from me and fu for the guy who suggested it :P
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on March 04, 2012, 12:42:41 pm
Quote from: koyama on March 03, 2012, 10:09:42 pm
Ffs i can't craft any weapons and shit to my faction cuz i quit retiring before chadztext implemented , i am not a hardcore cRPG gamer but i am an officer in Empire and running strategus business if that shit gets implemented , i will be completely useful so big NO from me and fu for the guy who suggested it :P

1)  As has been repeated over and over again, the aim is not to disntinguish between casual and hardcore gamers with an uncapped system.  Only people that do not play cRPG or Strat Battles at all would be unable to work

2)  If organising your clan's members is your thing, then this will still be possible for you.  Nobody has mentioned anything about banning or removing inactive people from Strat - we just want to remove their influence on the economy.

3)  A work system does not have to stop people moving round the map, leading armies, caravans or raiders.  The only thing that it has to do is prevent clans from gaining an economic advantage through their inactive members.  So no goods or equipment crafting and no troop recruiting.  I would be happy with this as if you are moving around you are open to attack and therefore involved in the game.  The inactive crafters meanwhile are hidden away in well defended fiefs where they can't be touched.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Camaris on March 04, 2012, 01:08:07 pm
Quote from: koyama on March 03, 2012, 10:09:42 pm
Ffs i can't craft any weapons and shit to my faction cuz i quit retiring before chadztext implemented , i am not a hardcore cRPG gamer but i am an officer in Empire and running strategus business if that shit gets implemented , i will be completely useful so big NO from me and fu for the guy who suggested it :P

You can still craft tradegoods with your earned time. Someone has to do this too. Your other members can make it to equipment.
Another solution would be if you could transfer your Work-Hours to other Clan-Members like you do with gold.

It´s a shame that people say no without taking part in the discussion and trying to bring up their concerns so people can think about it.
It´s always me me me me and if i dont like it i wont even talk further.

To the TE:
Its a great idea but the last thing chadz did in strategus was punishing fallen with aladin.
There have been a lot of ideas in this forum and a lot of them would have done great things to strat but
we should probably ask chadz first if he is still liking strategus and planing to improve it further.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 04, 2012, 09:53:05 pm
But this is the point, Koyama and myself appear to be extremely active on strat, probably more active than you guys proposing this bullshit. Yet this would make us unable to contribute economically to the well being of our factions because we do not grind crpg.

I asked who these alleged factions are with all these hordes of inactives who never actually play and yet you name no names. It is well known that multiple accounters get banned for this as it is against the rules so these people must be playing strategus ergo they are not inactive. It is just strategus is not a very intense game and only requires you log in a few times a week, or less.

If you think people need to be more "active" how about instead of insisting some kind of bullshit grinding is implemented for strat how about suggesting ways to make strat more interactive and engaging, to make it a game where being active in it is rewarded instead of trying to make a giant timesink that punishes everyone except nolifers.

---

Really your whole definition of being active in strat is nonsensical. You say to be active in strat you have to play crpg. This is idiotic. They are two seperate games.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Slamz on March 04, 2012, 10:35:53 pm
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 04, 2012, 09:53:05 pm
If you think people need to be more "active" how about instead of insisting some kind of bullshit grinding is implemented for strat how about suggesting ways to make strat more interactive and engaging, to make it a game where being active in it is rewarded instead of trying to make a giant timesink that punishes everyone except nolifers.

Here's your fix to make the game more interactive and engaging: turn it into an MMORPG.

And while chadz works on that over the next 5 years, we can, as a temporary solution, use cRPG.

Quote
Really your whole definition of being active in strat is nonsensical. You say to be active in strat you have to play crpg. This is idiotic. They are two seperate games.

cRPG is a separate game from Strat, is it?

So why does playing cRPG generate strat gold?
What does playing Strat give you XP in cRPG?
Why does playing cRPG give you the crafting points you need to make loomed gear in Strat?
You may also have noticed that Strat battles take place inside of cRPG.  You did notice that, right?
Also, Strategus seems to fall under the "cRPG forum", which you are using right now.  It's not a separate mod.  It does not stand alone.

They are two parts of the same game.


Any any rate, as a compromise, just boost the cRPG->Strategus money income.

Currently: 0 gold per tick at 1-2x, 1 gold per tick at 3-4x, 2 gold per tick at 5x

That is an almost completely useless amount of money.

Should be: 0 gold per tick at 1-2x, 15 gold per tick at 3-4x, 30 gold per tick at 5x

60 minutes at 3x bonus would be 900 gold, which is right around what you could make in strategus per AFK player per day just by taking his goods and selling them somewhere.


Really I think the reason a few of you are so mad about the idea is your clan has been relying on a large number of basically inactive players to feed you goods.  Is that fair to the real players?  More to the point, do we really want Strategus to turn into a Facebook style game where whoever can invite the most warm bodies to click a couple buttons once a week wins?


Strategus for cRPG players!

Down with AFK-Strategus!
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on March 04, 2012, 11:13:12 pm
Quote from: 22nd_King_Plazek on March 04, 2012, 09:53:05 pm
(click to show/hide)

- You play in Strat Battles,
- You do play cRPG at least casually as I see you in there every now and again
- You will therefore not be effected by this change much
- However, even if you are, you claim that you are highly active in Strat which means you can be doing one of the many jobs that is not dependent on earning work hours (raiding, trading & leading armies)

To put some numbers on it here's what I would suggest;

1 hour of cRPG = 24 work hours
1 hour of Strat Battle = 10 hours of cRPG = 240 work hours

SO, under these numbers you would only have to play 7 hours of cRPG per week or just 42 mins of Strat Battles (or a mixture of the 2) in order to craft for a week.

The max number of work hours you can stockpile is 336

Work hours can then be spent on the following
- Crafting Goods
- Crafting Equipment
- Recruiting Troops

All other Strat actions are free - which means you can still lead armies, caravans and raiders without ever having to earn any work hours at all.

The emphasis on Strat Battles also has the added advantage of encouraging proper Strat Battles, without rewarding steam rolling of your weaker neighbours (as fighting multiple battles in quick succession will saturate your work hours).
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Kafein on March 04, 2012, 11:21:01 pm
Long may live Strategus : Farmville, for there is no greater fun than being drones milked by your faction leader on a regular basis. Even playing Ogame as a miner is more interesting.

But don't worry, the next Strat will probably make playing Warband the most important thing again.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: HarunYahya on March 05, 2012, 12:21:36 am
Meh this argumant is fail .
Being inactive in strategus and being inactive in cRPG are different things and they should stay being different things imo.
Constantly playing cRPG already grants you bonuses in strategus like additional gold , heirlooms (Very big feature there is no way you can earn them without retiring in cRPG)
I don't see what will this difference bring us ?
I would say yes if cRPG servers were all empty but everyone in cRPG community plays strat like junkies but it is quiet opposite atm.
cRPG servers are full but few clans play strategus.If that gets implemented , these will happen in summer :
Goods production will stop cuz no one will play cRPG
Without goods there won't be trade income
Without trade income , there won't be any gold to pay upkeep of troops
Without troops there is no security of faction

What do you want us to do when it happens ? Tie up few guys and make them play cRPG till their eyes melt ?

Strategus is a persistant game when you quit playing it you and your faction can still be effected by others in the map , therefore making it grind based will fuck it up.It is a browser game , reminds me Travian only difference is your soldiers are alive and they all are connected to real characters in cRPG servers.
I see no reason to change that to be honest.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 05, 2012, 02:11:51 am
I'm with Koyama on this one. Its not a good idea.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Tomas on March 05, 2012, 01:24:30 pm
Quote from: koyama on March 05, 2012, 12:21:36 am
(click to show/hide)

The cRPG servers are full yet you think goods production will stop?  That's just daft and plenty of the Strat playing clans play cRPG. Greys, CHAOS, Hospitaller, Templars, Wolves, HRE, Fallen, Occitan, LLJK, TKoV, Mercs, Kapikulu, BashiBazouk, GK, ANT, Legio, DRZ, KUTT etc can all be seen in decent numbers on the cRPG servers on a regular basis so there is no reason at all to presume that goods production will dry up.  Add to that the Strat Battle players who get 10x the work hours and I think the production will only drop very slightly for the majority of clans.  OF course if your clan really does only play Strat, then you will just have to take a more agressive stance than you are used to in order to generate the work hours you need through Strat Battles.

If production does drop a little too much then it is very easy to counter by just changing the base goods prices to 10-30 from 5-25. But that is something I would only consider after the exact drop in production had been assessed.

Finally;
IF you do not play cRPG
AND you do not play Strat Battles
AND you are not active enough to be a clan trader/raider/general
THEN why do you need to be able to craft goods/equipment/troops that you will never see used yourself?


Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Beauchamp on March 07, 2012, 11:09:30 am
i like that, just because it separates dead accounts from live ones. i guess this is the main point of the idea?

i don't know how many accs like this there are, but in any case i don't see any argument why sbdy who has more crpg / strategus innactive friends should have higher edge over the one who does not. it also would change a balance in favour of smaller, but active clans a bit.

the idea of ticks = ammount of work is good, expecially if it would be set up really low (like 2h crpg/week = 100 percent of work). than its not about grinding at all, but it still separates active / "facebook-like" accounts.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Crazyi on March 09, 2012, 11:21:58 pm
I dont know too much about strat, only been in a very few battles. I do have to say I like the idea of goods being produced based on activity. It is logically sound, the most active groups should have the most resources to be competitive in terms of land control.
Title: Re: A simple change to Strat that will make a big difference
Post by: Lordark on March 10, 2012, 12:14:23 am
Im changing my mind. yes . Due to the fact that strat is for the nerds not the casualls anyways and thus people who play and produce would be saought out more then inactivves like myself.  :)