Why don't these weapons have the ability to block?its way to frigin fast for it to block PLUS in a battle i HIGHLY doubt a small knife could block a sword. Think about it, chances are you would end up getting your fingers cut if you tried to block lets say a sword of war or the like with it. A GOOD player can do well with a dagger against anyone(of course to a certain extent) martial arts do not cover for all fighting, just because rapiers were famous weapons doesnt mean that if a person used one he could block a large heavy broad sword times).
Historically, these were very popular weapons, useful in tandem with other weapons, as a backup, or even on their own. There are a plethora of short blade techniques in historical european martial arts to attest to this, and I'm a little disappointed by how useless they are in cRPG.
I'm not saying that they should be a great stand-alone weapon, but I think at the very least they should be usable. As they are now you're not much better off with a dagger than you would be with your fists, and it's a shame. With the ability to block, they could find some use as a light back-up weapon, like the hammer and other 0-slot weapons like it.
Decrease the damage by a few points, even, if you're concerned about balance. Or increase the price, or make it a 1-slot weapon. I don't care what you do - I just want these daggers to be useful!
Even the wakizashi, the eastern equivalent of the dagger, has the ability to block - although its excessively high price/upkeep makes it somewhat unpractical for most players.
its way to frigin fast for it to block PLUS in a battle i HIGHLY doubt a small knife could block a sword. Think about it, chances are you would end up getting your fingers cut if you tried to block lets say a sword of war or the like with it. A GOOD player can do well with a dagger against anyone(of course to a certain extent)
As I said, daggers were very practical and saw widespread use. Many, many people were killed by daggers, even in battle. It's easy enough to block with them, as you may be able to see if you check youtube for some dagger-related videos.you tube doesnt give a REAL battle situation. on YOUTUBE people would attempt to block and the other person isnt trying to KILL THEM. The reason its FUN to use them is because they are light and fast(really really fast) if you nerf the damage then no more point. I mean really if you want a fast dagger then its called an ESPADA
If their high speed would make them unbalanced, then reduce the speed - even though realistically they ARE a very fast weapon. On the same note, a player using a dagger to block a heavy weapon would probably find himself stunlocked fairly often due to the large difference in weapon weights, which would also help to balance them.
I'm a pretty skilled player myself, and I've only been able to get a few rare kills using the dagger. Its short length makes it nearly impossible to kill anyone but the poorest of peasants.nice... quite a modest one aren't you. Just from that tone i can tell your not near the top(as in IF YOU WERE REALLY that good then you could kill anyone with anything)
You can chamber block with daggers and that leaves them nicely balanced imo.
Skilled people are very good with them (Massassin) whilst the rest of us can still have a bit of fun with them.
I do think they should have a couple more points of pierce damage on the thrust though.
Just give them some sort of backstab bonus, if possible. Has been suggested before and should really be implemented.
(click to show/hide)
Give them blocking, but make it so that heavy weapons have the chance of crushthrough on them (dependent on the opponent's strength/ps in correlation with yours) I can't imagine someone blocking a lance thrust from a 30 mph horse with a small dagger.eh, I already do with my dagger.
Give them blocking, but make it so that heavy weapons have the chance of crushthrough on them (dependent on the opponent's strength/ps in correlation with yours) I can't imagine someone blocking a lance thrust from a 30 mph horse with a small dagger.
Flamberge V Dagger
I'd love to see you block a sideswing from a great maul with your cinquendea or flamed dagger...
Come on this is realism discussion mate!
(click to show/hide)
(click to show/hide)
Again, it's completely possible to block with daggers. For example:all that video showed was a man blocking a VERY light fencing weapon. Not only that but there are rules in fencing unlike in a real fight. If I came at you with lets say a HUGE Greatsword, and you attempted to block me with a small dagger my sword would go through your block(its math, weight and gravity vs your small ONEHANDED weapon) and would continue into your head/side/chest ect. It is possible for you to block lets say an Espada), but you would have ABSOLUTELY no chance against any of the following(just a few examples but you could block few of the CRPG weapons with a dagger)
http://youtu.be/P-mQtis2IiU?t=28s
Notice how he's comfortably able to block with the knife, despite its small size (especially compared to medieval daggers, which were quite large). In fact, one of the primary uses of the dagger was to allow a smallsword user to block with his off hand.
This may be less practical against heavier weapons, but there is already a mechanic in place to simulate that, isn't there? When blocking a greatsword, for example, the dagger's low weight would leave you stunlocked and unable to immediately retaliate. Heck, if you wanted you could even add crushthrough vs. daggers on weapons above a certain weight (maybe?)
I already said in the OP that I don't expect them to be amazing - just useful. The other small 0-slot weapons can block, why can't the daggers? I understand that it's possible to parry with them and 'block' that way, but that's not much of a consolation. You can do the same with your fists, and I don't see many people getting punching kills either. If the ability to block would make them overpowered, compensate by making them slower or weaker, in addition to having a very short range.
Also, I dislike the idea of giving them a backstab bonus. It would be a fun feature, but very unrealistic. Daggers weren't really used as an 'assassination' weapon, or if they were it was only because they could be easily concealed. Rather, they were used in direct confrontations to deliver superficial cuts and lethal stabs, especially vs. grounded opponents (like a downed knight or an enemy that you're wrestling with).
I'd love to see you block a sideswing from a great maul with your cinquendea or flamed dagger...
Come on this is realism discussion mate!
Unfortunately you seem to have taken a focus of sources from the 16th century and not really taken in the wider time period as a whole...
While parying and defending yourself against a greatsword is possible with a dagger while fencing or in a martial art form, on the battlefield it is far less practical.
There are many reference to exceptionally heavy mallets and hammers being used throughout the early medieval period. It is hard to question whether these kinds of easy to produce, heavy weapons were used or not. levied militias in town would have armed themselves with whatever to hand and its more than plausible that masons, carpenters or smiths would have used weapons that outweighed a dagger by five times its weight.
Questioning my opinion of game balance and sense of realism within a game is one thing, but referencing a wiki and claiming that its gospel is something else. its an accepted fact, drawn from several primary sources and confirmed by bibliographic and archaeological research that heavy warhammers, similar to modern day sledgehammers were used during medieval warfare.
A dagger simple couldn't straight block one of these weapons, why would you argue it was the case.
Unfortunately you seem to have taken a focus of sources from the 16th centuryActually, thats 14th century there.
Leave dagger block as is. Otherwise you'd have stupid things like daggers blocking flamberges, I don't need RandomDude making excuses.
Our Flamberge is another science-fiction weapon to be honest. Same with arbalest, heavy crossbow, plated charger, throwing lance.Weeeell they aren't accurately represented/exaggerated. I can believe wavy edged two handed swords, various forms of the crossbow mechanism, large warhorses, and large javelins may have existed and been used on a battlefield at some point in history. I'd love to have a new model and animation for the arbalest. Maybe even make it non-sheathable. xD
Dagger and long dagger are boss, they can block, they have high dmg and speed, ONLY drawback is Holds can dick you as you close, and you have to live in enemies pocket untill he gives up the ghost.
Knife is also nice, and looks like a dirk.
Nah Casimir, you don't need heavy maul to drive in stakes. You even don't need heavy maul to drive in pobedit's slip-hook into hard stone (I've got some experience in alpinism).
Also you do not need heavy maul in smithy. So our Great Maul is science fiction weapon. Doubt that someone can find any kinf of real melee weapon with this weight.
One place where you need really heavy maul - it's stone quarry.
Now about blocking big sword
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
(http://piccy.info/view3/2664976/c3b48c9340d3aad57d4456f20454d97b/)
more here:
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Flos_Duellatorum_(Pisani-Dossi_MS)
and here
http://www.wiktenauer.com/wiki/Florius_de_Arte_Luctandi_(MS_Latin_11269)
and here
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Ludwig_VI_von_Eyb
I can find another sources if you want. But I think that's enough
Your «Realism» argument - dagger can't block Great maul swings.
My «Realism» argument - such weapon as Great maul do not exist. Even more - any weapon with 9kg weight have too many drawbacks to be effective. And if weapon not effective - it's not a weapon.
They can't block mate, but who needs to anyway, with 113 speed and chambers. :wink:
1: Medieval wooden stake, made hastily before battle to stop some cav is not modern steel. Your "alpinism" has ZERO application.
Please dude, do not make your «funny posts» in realism threads.
They are actually good as they are. There is a player in Australia called Hashlingflasher... I think its been a while since I saw the old flash on. Any way he has a +3 Long Dagger and he used to pwn many a player, even some very good players used to get killed by him as he came flying out a bush slashing your face to ribbons.
He was quiet adept at chambering as well, which is a skill you really do need if you are using a weapon that doesn't block.
long dagger is OP. Real men use just dagger.
In the ancient rome hoplomachus got a dagger. When they drop their spear they were fighting with their daggers and killing people. But we can't kill anybody with our daggers in c-rpg :cry: