cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Konrax on March 01, 2011, 08:01:18 pm
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chadz said recently that he wanted heirlooms to be special and more rare with his mod but with the whole retirement system of the game counters this goal.
This is my game mechanic suggestion:
For a first generation player the gold/xp gain per minute would be 50gold/1250xp (Bit faster compared to now since its so slow apparently).
Each time a player retires they get an heirloom, and +1 gold and -25 xp per minute (+2% gold and -2% xp per generation). What this does is it gives a small gold increase to higher generation players to use better gear, but also make them have to fight longer to get the levels they need to retire. Also with the reduced xp system the amount of time it should take get a new heirloom will only be slightly longer than the time before.
With the current xp bonus you get eventually you hit a point where you will be gaining heirlooms far faster then any new player to the mod thus discouraging them from wanting to play the mod and giving an overpowered edge to the binge player.
This would make the generational gap smaller but still allow for a nearly limitless amount of game play. Also alternate characters would become an option again.
As an alternate option for retirement at level 31 allow for an heirloom re-specialization to a single item for the player at no generational gain (no +1 gold/-25 xp per minute). This way players have the option to change heirloomed items with a time investment that becomes increasing the higher generation you are.
So with my suggested tweaking of the current system in all fairness everyone would have to be reduced in gens to really make it fair given how easy it was to do this in the past. I would recommend something like generation/3 rounded up for up to generation 9, generation 10-15 is reduced to gen 4, generation 15+ is reduced to generation 5.
This would then make heirlooming and retiring more difficult over time, and justify having a better reward overall for heirlooming in general.
Anyone see any problems with doing something like this? Suggestions?
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For ranged weaponry: Perhaps every kill-shot over X difficulty would have a small chance of 'leveling up' the weapon to Heirloom status. The higher the shot difficulty, the better the chance.
( I realize online & c-RPG do not display shot difficulty, but I wish they did. I'm assuming it still tracks it, just without displaying it)
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As for everything else... I guess you would just have to use them a lot. So to 'level up' that expensive item, you actually have to use it. You can no longer simply let it collect dust, or buy it right before you retire at lv 31.
To prevent players from having infinite heirlooms, perhaps you can only keep as many heirlooms as you have Generations. Meaning, if you retire and your new guy will be Generation 6, you may then hold up to 6 heirlooms. When it levels up, it awaits your confirmation on the site to heirloom it. In this method, you could 'prime' a ton of items but wait until you've adequately retired to unlock them all.
I'd say once an item is 'leveled up' once, the default 'level up' chance for that item is drastically reduced. Meaning it's much harder to make it hit lv 2, and harder yet to hit lv 3. In addition to higher Generations holding more heirlooms, perhaps each Generation number increases your chance to level up items (albeit barely)
I realize this makes it sound like Heirlooms would be more common instead of more rare, so the level up chances would have to be really low, as well as have pre-requisites (like the ranged shot difficulty). I can't really think of any good ideas for non-ranged weapons or armor, and even if I did they'd be too farmable. (Probably better to keep them secret)
Edit: If chadz, or whoever would program it, likes the idea and wants more thoughts, I'd be glad to brainstorm in private.
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chadz said recently that he wanted heirlooms to be special and more rare with his mod but with the whole retirement system of the game counters this goal.
This is my game mechanic suggestion:
For a first generation player the gold/xp gain per minute would be 50gold/1250xp (Bit faster compared to now since its so slow apparently).
Each time a player retires they get an heirloom, and +1 gold and -25 xp per minute (+2% gold and -2% xp per generation). What this does is it gives a small gold increase to higher generation players to use better gear, but also make them have to fight longer to get the levels they need to retire. Also with the reduced xp system the amount of time it should take get a new heirloom will only be slightly longer than the time before.
With the current xp bonus you get eventually you hit a point where you will be gaining heirlooms far faster then any new player to the mod thus discouraging them from wanting to play the mod and giving an overpowered edge to the binge player.
This would make the generational gap smaller but still allow for a nearly limitless amount of game play. Also alternate characters would become an option again.
As an alternate option for retirement at level 31 allow for an heirloom re-specialization to a single item for the player at no generational gain (no +1 gold/-25 xp per minute). This way players have the option to change heirloomed items with a time investment that becomes increasing the higher generation you are.
So with my suggested tweaking of the current system in all fairness everyone would have to be reduced in gens to really make it fair given how easy it was to do this in the past. I would recommend something like generation/3 rounded up for up to generation 9, generation 10-15 is reduced to gen 4, generation 15+ is reduced to generation 5.
This would then make heirlooming and retiring more difficult over time, and justify having a better reward overall for heirlooming in general.
Anyone see any problems with doing something like this? Suggestions?
+1 for bold area good suggestion
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I don't think they can really track that kind of stuff Duke, and please start your own thread if you want to make a suggestion completely different than my own.
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I don't think they can really track that kind of stuff Duke, and please start your own thread if you want to make a suggestion completely different than my own.
Yeah, sorry if you thought I was hijacking. I'm just weary of starting new topics, I guess.
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Np Duke, although I think your idea would be cool too but I think chadz made a comment saying it would be impossible to implement a system that records even what gear is damaged during a battle.
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Bump~
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Many agrees it's stupid that when you retire, the next retirement is faster to achieve , and the next one even faster, and on and on and on ...
If you check in bigger scale , someone who has retired 30 times will level so much faster than the new guy , but the new guy doesn't have all of his gears heirloomed 3 times each ...
It should get harder or take longer to level , not the opposite way so I'm +1 for the -% exp and +% gold
Anyway , once Strategus comes back up, if you retired 10 times or never , it won't change much since you have to wear what they'll give you. No more heirloomed weapons
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Could be uber evil and put a limit on the amount of retirements, thus putting a limit on heriloom items.
Or have no exp bonuses when you retire: Retiring only gives you an heirloom .
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Simply removing the extra xp when retiring would do the trick. Or reverse it to be honest, for example:
Gen1 - 100% extra xp
Gen2 - 70% extra xp
Gen3 - 30% extra xp
Gen4+ - no extra xp, 10% extra gold (+10 each gen up to 50% or even more).
This way everyone starting up would have one mw heirloom fairly fast and the retirement grinders would just have the advantage of more heirloomed items and more gold.
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Say hello to Plated Charger/Tincan madness then lol
Much gold for em o.O
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Say hello to Plated Charger/Tincan madness then lol
Much gold for em o.O
Those who grind they're asses off have too much gold anyway and can continuously use their elephants and tincans
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Upkeep should never be something you nullify by grinding for XY retirements.
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I don't think 1 extra gold per minute per retirement will really be enough to allow you to ride a charger ever round.
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I don't think 1 extra gold per minute per retirement will really be enough to allow you to ride a charger ever round.
Yup.
35-40K for sustainable builds, now take a look at the horse costs. With this, you could do a sustainable plated charger if you were naked and retired 50 times (iirc the charger is 70k or so, right? For the plated one?) Not that scared...
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Yup.
35-40K for sustainable builds, now take a look at the horse costs. With this, you could do a sustainable plated charger if you were naked and retired 50 times (iirc the charger is 70k or so, right? For the plated one?) Not that scared...
The amount of time it would take to retire 50 times would be nuts.
From 49-50 retirements in would take 50 times longer then starting a first generation character.
EDIT: 50 times longer PER LEVEL at generation 49. You could be level 10 for several days even before you got a level. However you have a bit more gold to use fancy gear at lower levels. Sounds fun no? Being level 10 for like a week lol.
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lemme guess konrax you are gen 1?
so you think a patch that should erase 3 months of my retirements, is fair? for become gen 5 and get what
+20g/min and -20% xp ?
like 10g min make any difference.
find something better, or make more gen instead try suggest erase retirements of others. i am fine with your suggestion of more gold. and slower the retirments becouse should be slower retire more you make gens not faster for obvious reasons, but you cant waste other ppl time only becouse you not play enought for match other ppl gen.
and even at gen 21 for example , (2%x 20 ) +40% gold, not allow ppl to run around in plate & charger. becouse should be like
at
x1 70g
x 2 140g
x3 210g
x4 280g
x5 350g
only +100g than normal at 5x with 21 GEN
that means at an average of 2,5x a player with 21 gen should upkeep up to 50k equip instead 35k of a gen 1. not properly an uber advantage. (15k is a 2nd weapon, or a better armor like transitional instead chain mail+tabard )
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This sounds like a great idea and would really add to this mod.
Honestly I don't agree with the amount the generations would be decreased, but I understand that in fairness there would be some kind of generational reduction and complete respec for heirlooms.
That would really be up to chadz anyways since he knows the numbers.
I am only gen1 so it doesn't matter to me but to be fair to long time players instead.
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I agree honestly balancing the generations would be up to chadz, I was only making a suggestion for a formula to use.
chadz was talking about doing a big reduction in heirlooms again soon anyways so I figured that with my suggestion for the way the game should work would reduce the number of heirlooms and the rate at which they are gained.
chadz wanted to make the heirlooms better and honestly the only way to do that would be to reduce the other generational advantages that you would get.
So part of the offset of rewarding higher generation players would be rewarding them with even better heirloom items, not just +1 gold per minute per generation.
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Bump~
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Bump~
+1
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ill be honest. im gen 12, i get 2100xp per minute at x1... and the grind to 31 is still painfully slow. i feel bad for lower gens because its way worse for them than it is for me. the solution i like is...
base xp at 1x = 1500
retirement bonus = 1 heirloom and 5% xp boost.
this means that its not so bad for gen 1s to get going, and those who have retired a ton of times dont get such a huge advantage. i would also be happy to see either a reduction in total xp to hit level 31 (maybe 8mil instead of 8.7) and another thing i would love to see is the xp required to reach various levels spread out a bit more. it takes like 1mil to get to 26 or so, and then another 3.4 mil from 26-30, then 4.3 from 30-31. lets spread it out a bit more, maybe 2.5 to reach 26, then 4.5 would be 30, and 8 would be 31. make it a little less demoralizing when you are look at how far away the next level is.
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I agree leveling up and retiring is fairly slow but I think logically it isn't something that should get faster and faster.
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Bump~
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levels spread out a bit more
First I had the same in mind. It would be better if all levels were distributed more euqual.
But then I have to say, that it is a nice idea to be able to play your character for 50% of the time FULLY SKILLED.
Currently I think the whole peasent system is absolutly fail. The grind from 1 to 30 has become totaly useless with the current xp system.
It would be much more interresting if you could level faster if you are able to kill a superiour enemie with your superior skill. Or even staing alive at battlefront as a peasent would be cool, if it was rewarded.
The current system is only rewarding to people who do "kamikaze peasanting".
Damn! The more I think about the current system, the more I get angry about this B***s**t!
The current xp system will surely degenerate this great potential game. It is a pity. I do like to play, but only hope of change keeps me playing.
(I do not say that I want the former kill stealsystem back, but something different must be done)
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I really want to see some more feedback on this topic please/thanks
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Bump~
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if this happens there needs to be a full char wipe, otherwise certain players who have no life and are Gen 30 will have tons of heirloomed weapons and new people will never have more then one per char
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Your idea stinks as it makes alts more appealing, my suggest with a overall cap on gain rate and a xp bonus for one player per account (strategus chosen) is better and promotes long term play
Mateys idea also beats yours but problem his doesn't limit top grinders enough or help casuals cs grinders
If xp gain went down over time people just wont play
Being 90% of the posts in your thread deserves a lock, this idea misses the mark
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if this happens there needs to be a full char wipe, otherwise certain players who have no life and are Gen 30 will have tons of heirloomed weapons and new people will never have more then one per char
What is the problem with this?
You can only carry one helm/shield/Arour and so on.
First of all I thought the +10% XP is bullshit as it destabilises the game and makes some players to strong, but actually this is not fully true as there is a natural obstacle of limited itemslots.
Sure, a player who is FULLY heirloomed will be much better, but he wont stand a chance against 2(!) or more skilled player. Teamed players are also very mighty in M&B.
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Your idea stinks as it makes alts more appealing, my suggest with a overall cap on gain rate and a xp bonus for one player per account (strategus chosen) is better and promotes long term play
Mateys idea also beats yours but problem his doesn't limit top grinders enough or help casuals cs grinders
If xp gain went down over time people just wont play
Being 90% of the posts in your thread deserves a lock, this idea misses the mark
Matey made his post right after I made mine. This also followed after he read my post and posted about it.
Honestly the game isn't sustainable like this either and its only logical if retirements become more difficult you can justify having better heirloom options for weapons.
Which really is what chadz was looking for.
Anything useful to contribute?
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Without disrespect, i dislike your idea Konrax, but here's my 2 cents.
At the moment, for high generation people, it is to easy to retire and heirloom an item. Pre-patch, even if you played your ARs off, you could only retire once a week, and retirement had a cost. This kind of system should be put back in. I think we should keep the xp//gold ratio we have at the moment, but limit the rate at which people can retire. Let's say once per 10 days. That way, the people who have been playing for a long time retain their advantages, without being able to spam the heirlooming process.
As for good equipment, it should be like Sunday (or Church) clothing. Things that are nice and that you only wear on occasions. (These occasions being High multipliers, ie: x4-x5) Furthermore, that black plate you wear once in a x5 bluemoon should help your team maintain that x5 longer.
I say this because you don't often see people over lvl 30, and the retirement process keeps it that way (since leveling becomes sooooo long afterwards). Furthermore, the heirloomed items don't add that much of a bonus, and if I'm not mistaken, you can't even use these items in strategus.
In short, i think that in order to retire and land a heirloom, you should A) get to lvl 31, maybe B) pay a heirlooming fee (that get's higher/ generation and by level of the item (getting an item to be masterwork should cost more than getting it to be fine)), and C) wait 10 days between each heirloomed retirement.
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Upkeep should never be something you nullify by grinding for XY retirements.
Don't worry by the time it became a problem chadz would change it again to ruin it. He does hate "grinders"
as he has said many times.
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BUMP!~
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maybe if the mod detected when your lvl 1-20 or something you got an XP bonus like an extra 500xp (just a rough number) so when your gen 1 its easier to level up to gen 2 so you get an easy start as i say this is just a theory so please comment :)
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I think we should keep the xp//gold ratio we have at the moment, but limit the rate at which people can retire
I completly agree with bringing back the minimum waiting period between retirements
It should be 1 day for each gen for example
Gen1=1 day
Gen2=2 days
Gen15= 15days
and so forth. This would slow down high gens but still enable beginers to lvl.
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I like your idea about how long it should take to retire if it doesn't get reduced like how I said.
Either way it shouldn't get significantly easier like the current system.
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Agreed, should be time based above anything else. But most of the top grinders are already up to about gen 20. And sense most it would take about 24 retirements to complete 8 items, think the day-requirement should max out at around 21. Three weeks already seems to be a little too long. Maybe a litttle less like 17 days.