cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: rufio on February 14, 2012, 12:42:16 pm
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Dont know if people have already made threads similar to this one, ifso , sorry.
I would like to suggest adding a second option to the killing your alt and transfer heirlooms to your main lvl 5.
Since heirloom prices on the market have reached an all time high, it is near impossible for people like me (1 mil away from 34 , and shit no im not gonna retire ever) to buy them unless we go full retard and basicly semi leech in crap gear. what i suggest is adding the option of paying ~50k gold for the heirloom transfer whiles killing your alt, instead of having to be lvl 5... morally seen i think this is pretty fair, since the player is still doing all the work for his heirloom, + paying a pretty big fee to transfer it.
please let me know why this would be a bad/unfair idea.
greetings,
rufio
*edit:
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
so ye this is the basics of what i mean what will happen on alt killing for heirlooms to main.
prediction of effect it will have :
New players / currently still retireing players : will get an extra income boost.
High lvl players ( 32+): will be motivated to play on alts / lower lvls
Market will become more vibrant, with high lvl players choosing to heirloom trade / or sell theyr heirlooms to make money for high end gear upkeap, while low lvl mains will have More money to buy on the side to.
The gap between new players and old players will close in faster.
Overall a more dynamic experience for the whole playerbase, with a higher reward feeling.
feel free to comment on flaws / ad idea's to this basic system.
Think for yourself and how you and the rest of the playerbase would be affected by this system, if it would improve or worsen the overall player experience of crpg.
But plz dont start guessing on what a developers train of thought was and use that as an argument against this idea, if many people think this would be great for crpg, devs will eventually give theyr own oppinion to it, its not up to you to philosophise on theyr thoughts.
thanks in advance for your input.
greetings,
rufio
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Probably not an option, as too many high level characters aren't wanted, hence that low level needed to transfer.
I'm not opposed though.
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Probably not an option, as too many high level characters aren't wanted, hence that low level needed to transfer.
This , it's actually people 's fault who make those alts anyway.
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Probably not an option, as too many high level characters aren't wanted, hence that low level needed to transfer.
I'm not opposed though.
i fail to see the logic here.... if things stay as they currently are, im just gonna play on my main in cheap ass gear and grind up gold. thus il stay playing on high lvl. on the other hand if the option is implemented, i will actually level up alts and retire on them for the heirlooms, thus i will be playing as a low lvl most of the time... alot of people fail to see that the stat difference between a lvl 31 and 34 is pretty insignificant compared to the huge ammount of time put into the grind, basicly 8 generations.. i also think implementing this will get the market healthyer again
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As stated by chadz, there might or might not be a one time sacrifice for 31+ mains.
Else I would not expect changes to the system except upping the required main level to 30 or lower.
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why? why ... why.. why this hate towards probably your most hardcore players... why
we put all the time into it, and the lvling system already makes time vs statgain really unattractive, and you still proceed to middlefinger us even more with these restrictions on alt trading.... :(
the player still needs to stick the same ammount of time into lvling these heirlooms.... i understand that this might have been seen as a quick temporary fix to some thought up problem of lvl ballance : / but still as stated its an inaffective fix and it just makes players like myself feel disadvantedged towards the people who like hoarding heirlooms... and once they get theyr full set +xtras they can jsut lvl up to 34 to... i dont see the diffrence between first getting your heirlooms and then lvling to cap, or lvling to cap and then lvling up alts for heirlooms its the same process with same time input only turned arround...
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Well, I am not sure it's the intention behind it but IIRC the whole point of the system change was to prevent the gap between new players and old players getting too big.
So hardcore level 35/36 build are not really desired.
Not sure that is the reason but I remember reading something along those lines and just because some people decide they want that anyhow we will not change the system.
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I don't really consider playing in normal gear at level 30 or above as "grinding". To me grinding is playing at low level or in crap gear since you are gimping your build in order to gain cash, looms or XP. I therefore don't really think the time taken to get to level 34 from level 30 should mean anything for this argument.
You chose to stop retiring long before the heirloom transfer was ever implemented and also before you had gained a full set of looms. To me this means you have actually spent less time grinding and the current rules are therefore fair.
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let me put it this way,, the stat gain i gained from lvling are nothing compared to the 8 heirloom points i could have gotten out of this, oh ye i lvled to 34 twice before did i mention that? and respecced afew times to.. dont feel like doing that over again,, i dont see how me lvling up heirlooms on alts for this main is unfair whatsoever to whomever, it actually will give a result devs seemingly are looking for = me not playing on my high lvl main but on alts... like i stated my only other option is to grind up the money in cheap gear... i just thought this idea was pretty logical and reasonably fair towards everyone, and tbh i still havent had eny clear arguments as to why this should not be implemented ...
*also before i didnt care alot about heirlooms , only mywep, but now since new heirloom model packs are comming out, it has retriggered my interest.
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rufio you are right :D
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It is unfair cause people would only play on alts and the main character would be only a ''fun'' or ''grind'' character.
Your main character gets better while not using it? That's crap.
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well still its all the same persone doing the work, and there is an extra fee to pay to componsate
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Meow, you're one of us. Don't let them have their way. Crush those silly devs who don't even play their own game regularly.
Power to the players, down with inactive cmpx!
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bump bump, this shit needs to get in :3 unless good argument is given against it
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Probably not an option, as too many high level characters aren't wanted, hence that low level needed to transfer.
You've got the argument. And this is kind of the heaviest arguments, cause it is developer of the mod who set that rule. And believe me, he did it on purpose.
/lock?
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that argument is kinda irrelivant ... if you read thread, since people justwill choose to keep high lvl and grind gold.... thus argument'' gone tada
the real question is , 1was this transfer option put there to trick high lvls into loosing all theyr hard earned xp ? or 2was it put in to actually improve the player experience ?: so that you could play on alt characters and on your main and when you retired main , you could then also lvl the rest of your alt and then retire that to, thus efficiently getting more looms whils playing different classes ?( but ye then we return to the question of how fair is this... like stated earlier in this thread, they grind up theyr loomed set and then lvl to max/high lvls. why is the otherway arround such a crime?if you have to pay an extra pretty big fee for the transfer)
if it is the first, then yes i understand that they wont implement this pretty logical and fair suggestion i have. if the second i dont see why they shouldnt implement this.
and i will add also that this whole trail of thought or ''theory'' of not having tomuch high lvls will make it nicer for newcomers, is pretty damn flawed, i mean its not the lvl thats gonna matter its the player skill... crpg has a badass hard learning curve, 4/5 levels difference on players isnt gonna make a significant inpact, its the damn skill level and combat awareness. a far more logical and effective way to make it smoother for newcommers is to have 1 or more '' newbie servers''' where noobs can go and get used to crpg , and then test theyr might on the stronger servers: ofc its jsut an idea , and how to keep it fair hasnt been thought out yet :3
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Well I'd like to see something done with alt character's gold. One of my alts I play more than my main and once I retire my main I'm going to sacrifice my alt. The alt does however have 400k gold which is just going to disappear, thing is it's pretty much wasted gold, sure the looms are more important but 400k is a lot of cash.
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well an awnser could be that if your below lvl 5 on your main you can get the full ammount of earned money transfered to , and when your 5+ / 50%, 31 + you get 20% ?
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That could work.
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:arrow:
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thats all nice and well, the matter of fact is , if the devs want to achieve people playing on lower lvl's , they should implement this. and like i said many times before its still the players time, and with this ''idea'' the high lvl player will be sacrificing way more to get those looms then the one still retireing on his main. imo its just more fair towards the player base as a whole, and will keep the game interessting, specially now that : new gear is comming out , new heirloom models are comming out... the game is changing , the content is getting bigger, the heirloom system can also change with it imo...
*also : i say no because i think that devs did this because of whine is not a solid argument imo
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NO
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I'd say is fair to have a 1-time sacrifice option for alts with 30+ level players. Actually, someone who has gone max level before the sacriface thing, has had no option to transfer their looms to the main, and keeping it a 1-time, would prevent it from exploiting.
So please devs, 1-time sacrifice for any level player. And to avoid further exploting, disabling it the first time you sacrifice an alt (being level 5- or not), and therefore, being disabled on people that has already sacrificed an alt. If not, someone could still be retiring an alt many times before sacrificing it.
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i dont see why this is exploiting ? i think i need to make some inforgraph or sumthiing for people to understand , that the system im proposing will make the sacrifice made by the high lvls way higher then somone retiring on his main, i just think this would be a step in keeping the diversety in this game , because people who have lvld to 34 or higher will not retire on that character whatever you think, so theyr only option to get heirlooms is to grind gold.. i think a system where u can transfer heirlooms from alto to main at high cost is more then decent. but ye il make a flowchart or sumthing to show u what i mean
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i dont see why this is exploiting ? i think i need to make some inforgraph or sumthiing for people to understand , that the system im proposing will make the sacrifice made by the high lvls way higher then somone retiring on his main, i just think this would be a step in keeping the diversety in this game , because people who have lvld to 34 or higher will not retire on that character whatever you think, so theyr only option to get heirlooms is to grind gold.. i think a system where u can transfer heirlooms from alto to main at high cost is more then decent. but ye il make a flowchart or sumthing to show u what i mean
It's exploiting, i'll explain.
case a) To play in the normal way, not going max level, you sacrifice actually playing on 31+ levels, you'll always play with a maximum lvl30 character, and getting looms in exchange.
case b) If you go max level, you sacrifice getting looms, so you get an overall more powerful character in exchange of not getting looms.
The way you propose, allows someone to go max level, and when they top a reasonable level (say 34 or 35), provide your main with tons of looms, playing with your alts. Even if it comes at a cost of money (50k is RIDICULOUS for a transfer), and if it's more expensive the situation is the same, because then a "loom for gold" thingy is implemented, so ther's no need for market ..... and no interaction between players ..... So what you get is a max level character that can get maximum looms ... that's what is not sought after. If you want to do that ..... use the market, it's not that easy as you propose but that's because ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE EASY TO GO MAX LEVEL AND MAX LOOMS AND GET EVERY BENEFIT FROM THE GAME.
Anyway, as I said, the actual system get a disadvantage for people that leveled an alt BEFORE sacrifice was implemented and went max level BEFORE sacrifice was implemented, as they have "lost alts" with looms. If you went max level AFTER sacrifice was implemented, you could retire your main one last time, sacrifice all your alts, and get all your looms and go max level. That opportunity was lost if you went max level before the sacrifice thing.
So, to get things equal, a 1-time sacrifice for "any-level" characters should be implemented.
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login
so ye this is the basics of what i mean what will happen on alt killing for heirlooms to main.
prediction of effect it will have :
New players / currently still retireing players : will get an extra income boost.
High lvl players ( 32+): will be motivated to play on alts / lower lvls
Market will become more vibrant, with high lvl players choosing to heirloom trade / or sell theyr heirlooms to make money for high end gear upkeap, while low lvl mains will have More money to buy on the side to.
The gap between new players and old players will close in faster.
Overall a more dynamic experience for the whole playerbase, with a higher reward feeling.
feel free to comment on flaws / ad idea's to this basic system.
Think for yourself and how you and the rest of the playerbase would be affected by this system, if it would improve or worsen the overall player experience of crpg.
But plz dont start guessing on what a developers train of thought was and use that as an argument against this idea, if many people think this would be great for crpg, devs will eventually give theyr own oppinion to it, its not up to you to philosophise on theyr thoughts.
thanks in advance for your input.
greetings,
rufio
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I definetivly DONT wnat this option.
Every way how to play this game has his up- and downsides, even ur way Rufio.
I dont think this lvl 32+ people have to get even better than they are atm.
If you feel like u need to go the hardcore way, go it ! But dont expect everything to be perfect for you then.
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ok thanks for your input , although your arguments arent solid ones imo.
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visitors can't see pics , please register or login
so ye this is the basics of what i mean what will happen on alt killing for heirlooms to main.
prediction of effect it will have :
New players / currently still retireing players : will get an extra income boost.
High lvl players ( 32+): will be motivated to play on alts / lower lvls
Market will become more vibrant, with high lvl players choosing to heirloom trade / or sell theyr heirlooms to make money for high end gear upkeap, while low lvl mains will have More money to buy on the side to.
The gap between new players and old players will close in faster.
Overall a more dynamic experience for the whole playerbase, with a higher reward feeling.
feel free to comment on flaws / ad idea's to this basic system.
Think for yourself and how you and the rest of the playerbase would be affected by this system, if it would improve or worsen the overall player experience of crpg.
But plz dont start guessing on what a developers train of thought was and use that as an argument against this idea, if many people think this would be great for crpg, devs will eventually give theyr own oppinion to it, its not up to you to philosophise on theyr thoughts.
thanks in advance for your input.
greetings,
rufio
You are priceless as a seer... please give me the next lottery prize number!!!
Note: no, i won't buy it ...
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i see you have put thought into this and have good arguments on why these predictions are flawed, good sir thank you for your helpfull input , i am very gratefull for a person this smart to share his insight on this topic.
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I like how you call the reason why it will never be possible an irrelevant argument.
Fact: If it was possible EVERYONE would stop retiring his main.
This is not desired by us.
Right now only hardcore players do it and the amount of 31+ chars is relatively small.
It's supposed to stay like that.
You had two options:
Keep retiring for heirlooms or go for a higher level - both have their own advantages, you can't have the cake and eat it too.
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Or you can retire 15 times, get all the looms and stop retiring like some of us did :D
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the way i see it if the system will be this way it will still be way more attractive to be retireing your main, and play on alts for diversety (since you need to kinda play same gear on your main for strat craft gain ) . the alternative of lvling up your main first and then getting heirlooms to it wont be attractive for new players or players who want to max out the potential of this (unfinished) system idea. my conclusion : yes this will be verywell appreciated by the small ammount of people including myself who ''hardcore'' max lvld, but it will be a bigger advantage to the average joe then to this ''elite'' + it will achieve those high lvls playing on alts lower lvls witch is what the dev team wants am i right? it will boost the heirloom market.
and once again il state : me as a hardcore player will get my looms through gold grind enyways, it will be a way more boring experience ,,, but il get there. overall i think this will enrichen all the players experience and push crpg into being even more awesome then it is atm. im trying to see the big picture.
also this system would merge well with the concept of new items being added to the mod and heirloom packs being updated.
*edit: what you mention to be '''fact'' makes me think you misinterpet the meaning of this word.
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*edit: what you mention to be '''fact'' makes me think you misinterpet the meaning of this word.
If there is absolutely no reason to retire you main anymore, why would anyone retire it?
How is it not a fact that people will stop retiring if there is no reason to retire your main anymore?
Also while we are at misinterpreting, we are talking way different players here.
I am talking casuals that are not playing every day and will never plan for 31+ you are talking new hardcore players.
Anyhow everything that needed to be said was said.
Ain't gonna happen.
Outa here :mrgreen:
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Meow, what do you think about the 1-time option, for us who started going max level before sacrifice was implemented???
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Also while we are at misinterpreting, we are talking way different players here.
I am talking casuals that are not playing every day and will never plan for 31+ you are talking new hardcore players.
Like i stated this is an unfinished concept and how you derive from my post that im only talking about hardcore players is confusing to me.
As far as i see it this system should be there to actually benifit the casual players more then the hardcore players, since the rewards of retiring your main heavely outweights the secondary option.
I just think the second option should be there to give those hardcore players a little love to.
Whiles more effectiveley fixing the problem your facing about to many high lvls playing at the same time on a server. and making your game more rewarding to everybody.
As to how you derive that there is no more reason to retire your main is also confusing:
Reason to retire your main is that you will get the money from your alts heirloom grind instead of not getting the money and having to pay an ''undefined'' fee from your mains purse..
Effectivly draining the money of the high lvls, and overtime increasing the money of the low lvls.
Witch overall will make that people retiring theyr mains gain heirlooms at a way higher rate then the people not retiring theyr mains.
Effectivley closing the gap between new players and veterans.
Or am i making a big mistake somewhere in this logic ?
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Meow, what do you think about the 1-time option, for us who started going max level before sacrifice was implemented???
Well, chadz said it might happen at some point but no ETA on it.
Also not sure if it is actually gonna happen.
WALL OF TEXT
I'll read it if you format it properly :mrgreen:
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as you wish supreme overlord :wink:
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Well, chadz said it might happen at some point but no ETA on it.
Also not sure if it is actually gonna happen.
Push so it happens.
It's fair and not exploitable.
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i think you dont understand the defenition of exploiting something.... and plz make your own thread with that idea, i wish for this thread to focus on the concept i made
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Right now only hardcore players do it and the amount of 31+ chars is relatively small.
It's supposed to stay like that.
Do you know how many characters are lvl 31+? (not that you should publish it, just interested)
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i think you dont understand the defenition of exploiting something....
You should really stop telling people that they don't know definitions of words to make your point.
And he is right, a one time sacrifice for everyone is not exploitable in the way that you keep your high level char and farm heirlooms on alts.
Also I read your other post and sadly the format did not really help me see how it helps making your system more attractive to us.
Let me repeat:
We do want people to retire.
We do not want everyone to go for 35 on their main chars.
Or am i making a big mistake somewhere in this logic ?
Depends, I am having trouble following the whole thing since you take a gameplay issue (1-30 players fighting 35 players (on regular c-rpg servers and in strat)) and make it about items & money.
That does not work.
The gap between 31+ players and casuals does not get any less of a problem due to that.
If anything it would make the problem bigger due to more people going for higher levels and the game getting more frustrating for casuals.
As requested by you I will now also tell you that you do not need to waste more time on explaining it since it won't change, maybe the level limit gets upped from 5 to 30 but that's it.
That's it from me for this thread :mrgreen:
Do you know how many characters are lvl 31+? (not that you should publish it, just interested)
I myself can not, chadz could easily do it by running a DB check.
Might even publish it.
Should be kinda easy having a list from 1-35 with the amount of characters and mains at that level.
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Thank you for stating your view and explaining why this idea is flawed in your oppinion.
I still think the dif between a lvl 30 and a lvl 35 statwise is minimum. and the time put into getting to lvl 35 is incredibly huge, for you to put this off as insignificant is weird.
The frustration will come from teamplay / skill / combat awareness, NOT FROM 5/6 lvls diffrence .
I still feel that the arguments being made against this ''system'' are pretty unclear appart from the flawed theory on lvl difference making casuals frustrated.
And i still feel that this or a similar system being implemented will go great along side the new changes of heirloom packs and new items being added. ( again heirloom stats are also pretty insignificant compaired to the amount of grind needed to get them, only real reason i would want them is for the looks fromm heirloom packs)
So yes i do make this about gold and about heirlooms, since that from my extensive experience in this game, i have concluded for myself that the way i perform isnt thatmuch different between lvl 27 or lvl 34, its all about the 3 things i mentioned higher up.
* ex·ploit (ksploit, k-sploit)
n.
An act or deed, especially a brilliant or heroic one. See Synonyms at feat1.
tr.v. (k-sploit, ksploit) ex·ploit·ed, ex·ploit·ing, ex·ploits
1. To employ to the greatest possible advantage: exploit one's talents.
2. To make use of selfishly or unethically: a country that exploited peasant labor. See Synonyms at manipulate.
3. To advertise; promote.
exploiting this ''system '' would actually mean going for retireing your main , not lvling it up to max lvl.
since it will give you the best time vs reward turnout.
fact (fkt)
n.
1. Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.
2.
a. Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
b. A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
c. Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
3. A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
4. Law The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.
speaks for itself, you cant know facts of this system since it hasnt been tested or implemented.
''The gap between 31+ players and casuals does not get any less of a problem due to that.''
the gap no, the occurence of the gap because people will be playing on alts alot = yes
I find it a shame that this idea is being put off so blatantly since i have really tried to think this through, and create an raw idea/concept that would make the game better as a whole, not only for ''me'' as you might think, still i thank you for reading , and responding.
sincerley ,
rufio
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i think you dont understand the defenition of exploiting something....
Hmm exploiting, let me see...
Isn't that scenario when you find that interesting and cheap medieval game on sale for just 5$, you decide to snatch it and install it. After you finally got ingame you check for server just to realize that no one is playing on most servers...
So eventually you read on steam forums about that mod c-rpg which turns said game into World of WarCraft. You install it, go on main server and after 15 minutes of getting slaughtered by other players you go on mod's forums searching for giudes. There are plenty of them but something else catches your attention and that is high number of anti-archery threads and posts on forums. You decide to try archery just to realize that you've finally found something familiar (just like in other FPS games you used to play). You decide to stick with it and eventually you start to kill people and many of them are pissed off and you love the feeling making some schmuck angry over internet. You feel good and powerful.
I believe that's exploiting. It's mainly done by so called casuals (how Meow refers to them). They have the cake. For us who spent some time in order to learn something new, how to play this game how its supposed to be played, for us cake is a lie.
Meow is so cool and likes to play nerfed classes so much that he was previously playing such hard class as polearm STR spammer and now decided to play something even worse and more "hardcore", famous my old friendcher class. Along with many others, including our dear big nosed archer hater Perverz, otherwise known as Gnjus :rolleyes:
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Glad you decided to waste your time anyway.
Bye Bye :mrgreen:
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Glad you decided to waste your time anyway.
Bye Bye :mrgreen:
glad i got to know you better :rolleyes: :rolleyes: