cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Supreme_Leader on January 29, 2012, 04:24:40 am

Title: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Supreme_Leader on January 29, 2012, 04:24:40 am
30 str, 9 agi, 7 IF, 10 PS, 3 ath, 3 WM, 130 WPF base.

Damage calculator:

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Wearing the 3.1lb helm puts me at an effective WPF of 89. Anything below 100 loses damage, right? Without it I'm at 102.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Rhaelys on January 29, 2012, 08:26:47 am
Recommendation: Drop 3 WM, put in into Ironflesh. Wear your helmet, too.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Bobthehero on January 29, 2012, 09:07:06 am
Recomandation: Fix your build, I have 10 PS 10 IF 3 WM and 3 ATH.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Rhaelys on January 29, 2012, 09:24:02 am
Recomandation: Fix your build, I have 10 PS 10 IF 3 WM and 3 ATH.

Maybe if you're level 31
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Falka on January 29, 2012, 09:30:16 am
Is that true on level 34 we get 1 additional skill point (then 1 attribute point and 2 skill points in total)?
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Nehvar on January 29, 2012, 04:23:02 pm
Is that true on level 34 we get 1 additional skill point (then 1 attribute point and 2 skill points in total)?

Nope.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Elmokki on January 29, 2012, 06:10:51 pm
Any wpf below any other wpf loses damage compared to that. 89 wpf is 98.35% damage modifier, 130 is 104.5% damage modifier. You lose about 6% damage.

BUT I've been told the reduced wpf after armor does not affect damage (only speed and having enough wpf to pick up throwing weapons). I do not know if this is true though since I haven't seen evidence of either option.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Supreme_Leader on January 31, 2012, 06:58:07 am
Recomandation: Fix your build, I have 10 PS 10 IF 3 WM and 3 ATH.

As Rhaelys said, that's only possible at level 31.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Supreme_Leader on January 31, 2012, 07:01:07 am
Recommendation: Drop 3 WM, put in into Ironflesh. Wear your helmet, too.

Won't 0 WM gimp my damage output?
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Rhaelys on January 31, 2012, 09:28:36 am
100 WPF is not a magical damage threshold/tier.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Boerenlater on January 31, 2012, 10:26:40 am
Does that 10PS not totally encouter the lack of wpf?
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Rhaelys on January 31, 2012, 10:47:49 am
(click to show/hide)

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There you go. With a 40 Cut weapon against 60 Armor, the 13 effective WPF difference accounts for only a 6% increase in melee damage on average (25 v. 23.5). You're using 3 skill points to achieve that, and losing out on 6 health.

I do not know about you, but I definitely prefer swinging for 6% less damage over not being able to swing at all, because you are already dead from that stray arrow.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Polobow on January 31, 2012, 03:43:06 pm
(click to show/hide)

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There you go. With a 40 Cut weapon against 60 Armor, the 13 effective WPF difference accounts for only a 6% increase in melee damage on average (25 v. 23.5). You're using 3 skill points to achieve that, and losing out on 6 health.

I do not know about you, but I definitely prefer swinging for 6% less damage over not being able to swing at all, because you are already dead from that stray arrow.

What about the speed?
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Rhaelys on January 31, 2012, 07:47:22 pm
Per WaltF4's Weapon attack speed and proficiency and not agility (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.msg62636.html#msg62636):

Let's use a Masterwork Awlpike (Speed 94 back when WaltF4 conducted his analysis, the same speed as a Masterwork Sword of War) for calculating purposes.

y=-0.0008x+1.1579

For 111 WPF, swing speed would be 1.0691 seconds.

For 130 WPF, swing speed would be 1.0539 seconds.

This translates to a 1.42% increase in swing speed. However, the absolute difference in swing speed is only 0.0152 seconds, or 15.2 milliseconds.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Zerran on January 31, 2012, 07:57:24 pm
My current build has 55 1H wpf and 100 polearm wpf. Even with that, I have absolutely no trouble using my 1H very effectively. Weaponmaster is kind of useless for melee, imo.  :|
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Elmetiacos on February 01, 2012, 01:36:09 pm
If you are not using a Great Maul or similar and wanting crushthrough or knockdown, the stats to me suggest very high PS is not worth it in most cases. Two good hits will kill most characters, unless they're tanks, so the main reason to go total str is a one hit kill...

Even with a monster damage weapon like a +2 Claymore or a basic Great Long Axe (45) against someone with medium armour (say, haubergeon and mail mittens for 42 body armour) you will average 40 points damage with a maximum of 57. You will only one hit kill an agi build and will have to be lucky to do that. A heavier armour character, for example, coats of plates & Wisby gauntlets totalling 55 body, takes an average of 32 and a max of 48 which will almost never kill in one.

It's more complicated than this, of course, because most of our kills (contrary to what we want to believe) are not in fiercely fought duels, they're from opportunistic sneak attacks or stabs/cuts in the back against someone fighting someone else. More PS makes it more likely that you will finish off even slightly wounded enemies in this way.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Polobow on February 01, 2012, 07:12:18 pm
If you are not using a Great Maul or similar and wanting crushthrough or knockdown, the stats to me suggest very high PS is not worth it in most cases. Two good hits will kill most characters, unless they're tanks, so the main reason to go total str is a one hit kill...

Even with a monster damage weapon like a +2 Claymore or a basic Great Long Axe (45) against someone with medium armour (say, haubergeon and mail mittens for 42 body armour) you will average 40 points damage with a maximum of 57. You will only one hit kill an agi build and will have to be lucky to do that. A heavier armour character, for example, coats of plates & Wisby gauntlets totalling 55 body, takes an average of 32 and a max of 48 which will almost never kill in one.

It's more complicated than this, of course, because most of our kills (contrary to what we want to believe) are not in fiercely fought duels, they're from opportunistic sneak attacks or stabs/cuts in the back against someone fighting someone else. More PS makes it more likely that you will finish off even slightly wounded enemies in this way.

Yep, so true, war isn't fair :/.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Mars on February 06, 2012, 08:37:26 am
It's all preference really, i always found 130 effective wpf after armor reduction to be perfect ( usually if u have great ping u notice the advantage ). Extra dmg is always great as well, how i like to think of it is I would rather have some additional dmg to add to my 7 ps and attack faster then just have 10 PS and be out hit by faster weapons. Also, with 7 PS + 100wpf + 40ish cut weapon u can 2 shot most players, u don't "need" 10 PS.
Title: Re: 30/9 effective WPF
Post by: Cyclopsided on February 06, 2012, 09:01:46 am
I prefer the 130 wpf version, because then I can use medium armor with same speed as ultralight armor with 111wpf.

Really, the trade off is so minimal.