cRPG

cRPG => Scene Editing => Topic started by: zagibu on February 24, 2011, 05:08:56 pm

Title: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 24, 2011, 05:08:56 pm
This is my fourth siege map:

http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v1.zip
http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v2.zip
http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v3.zip
http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v4.zip
http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v5.zip ( http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3246 )

The flag is in the walled-in oasis. Some roads are blocked in the town, so that attackers can't simply run straight to the flag.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Adam_Bomb on February 24, 2011, 05:31:49 pm
I like it, nice and compact.  Might be hard to defend once the attackers start throwing up ladders everywhere though.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Kong Ming on February 24, 2011, 05:37:00 pm
Looks cool man!  I recommend you set up a mbrespository account and get your maps on there.  Takes an hour or so to get approved and then you can upload all you want.  Good file hosting for M&B specific stuff and then players outside cRPG can access your stuff as well.

http://www.mbrepository.com/index.php
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 24, 2011, 06:33:10 pm
Quote from: Adam_Bomb on February 24, 2011, 05:31:49 pm
I like it, nice and compact.  Might be hard to defend once the attackers start throwing up ladders everywhere though.

Yeah, that's what i thought as well. It is quite high, but maybe you can get up with siege ladders, and balance will be fucked...we'll see.

Thanks for the suggestion, Ming, going to add my stuff there, as well.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on February 24, 2011, 11:46:15 pm
I feel like there always has to be some secondary way to get to the flag (even for teams without custom ladders). It will be very hard to take that casle if 2 shielders just block the wood-platform thing, allowing a poleguy in the background to poke the attackers down.
Maybe a ladder on the roof of that one house closeby, or something like that.

(another minor request, resize your screenshots before uploading, the scrolling with this forum software is terrible :o )
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 25, 2011, 12:29:43 am
You can get on top from 2 sides, but you are right, it might still be too hard. We'll see. I'll resize the next screenshots.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Mylet on February 25, 2011, 12:57:44 am
It's up now. It's really hard to tell how the balance on this one will work out.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 01:54:02 am
No idea about balance yet, had not enough players to make walls important, all was about the flagtower.

But one thing I noticed: Backdoor. We broke it, went in, went wtf. It doesnt seem to give any benefit, maybe add a ladder to a roof, and one from this roof to flag to make backdoor a viable strategy.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: BlackMilk on February 25, 2011, 03:13:22 pm
I played on it and def won the round 3-0....
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 25, 2011, 04:53:35 pm
Quote from: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 01:54:02 am
No idea about balance yet, had not enough players to make walls important, all was about the flagtower.

But one thing I noticed: Backdoor. We broke it, went in, went wtf. It doesnt seem to give any benefit, maybe add a ladder to a roof, and one from this roof to flag to make backdoor a viable strategy.

Good idea. Yeah I also noticed after having placed the stairs that the backdoor might be a bit useless. Well, you don't have to fight guys on the walls, if you use backdoor, but I guess once you are in, they have already mostly pulled back anyway. I'll see what I can do.

Quote from: BlackMilk on February 25, 2011, 03:13:22 pm
I played on it and def won the round 3-0....

Doesn't sound good. Oh well, it was worth a try, I guess...
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 05:01:54 pm
Quote from: zagibu on February 25, 2011, 04:53:35 pm
Doesn't sound good. Oh well, it was worth a try, I guess...

Less/no defender spawns on the flag, maybe on the wood, but not in a place where a freshly spawned guy blocks the flag without even moving might help attackers, too.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 25, 2011, 09:55:10 pm
Yeah, I thought about it. But I think most players would still whine, so i'm probably going to put the flag on the ground somewhere and change the interior a bit.

I'm not sure if after this I'm going to continue making maps, though, I don't really see the sense in making a siege map that can be conquered by random attacks. But that's exactly what most people expect. Siege is for them just another form of team deathmatch, where, instead of simply having to kill the enemy team, you also have to walk towards a certain spot on the map. It seems the multiplier is more important for most people than the fun of conquering a challenging castle.

Maybe this would be different without the multiplier, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on February 25, 2011, 10:31:41 pm
Getting balanced maps for crpg siege is nearly impossible, first version of my map did consider ladder-spamming by the attackers too much, making it too easy to defend against a team without custom ladders, but nothing stops one from trying to find the middle.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 25, 2011, 10:38:46 pm
Yeah, but if the "middle" is mostly a battle map with some walls and a siege tower, then someone else can do it. We got cool props, and I want to build castles with them, not simply place them around the flag as backdrops.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Mylet on February 26, 2011, 12:59:29 am
Feel free to suggest changes to the way siege mode currently works. I agree that it feels a bit more like "deathmatch with walls" than an army superior in numbers assaulting impregnable defenses (like it often did in Strategus).

But for now, siege maps have to be balanced for the current siege mode. I think I will have to remove this map from the rotation soon, it seems currently pretty much impossible for the attackers to capture.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 26, 2011, 01:32:57 pm
Yeah, I'd also suggest to remove the current version. I'm redesigning the castle interior and putting the flag on the ground.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: BlackMilk on February 26, 2011, 03:34:11 pm
Quote from: zagibu on February 26, 2011, 01:32:57 pm
Yeah, I'd also suggest to remove the current version. I'm redesigning the castle interior and putting the flag on the ground.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on February 28, 2011, 01:03:32 am
I've redesigned the whole castle (see screens in OP): http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v2.zip

The flag is in the middle of the oasis. In the town, many streets are barricaded, so the attackers can't just rush straight to the flag, once the gates are broken.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on March 05, 2011, 04:42:52 pm
Has anyone had a chance to play the new version of the map yet? It doesn't seem to be up on any of the EU siege servers...
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on March 28, 2011, 10:44:48 pm
I've only had 1 chance to play the map, and it was 3-0 for attackers. Can other ppl confirm this before I revamp the map (again)?
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on March 28, 2011, 11:06:43 pm
It is good, the problem is just custom laddering right after the gate. Just block it with a barrier, and we are safe ;)
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on March 29, 2011, 03:41:08 pm
I hate barriers. Maybe I'll try making rooftops accessible for defenders, instead.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on March 29, 2011, 04:04:51 pm
Maybe a simple walkway behind the critical paths of the flag-wall. So defenders can get up and destroy ladders, and shoot at people
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on March 30, 2011, 12:12:00 am
Okay, I've added said walkway and also changed some other minor things: http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v3.zip
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on April 03, 2011, 04:01:52 am
I've had the time to play some cRPG today, but there is still the old version of this map on the EU servers...
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Leiknir on April 03, 2011, 12:20:47 pm
Should be up now
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Bjarky on April 25, 2011, 11:47:25 pm
Jammadi Castle (blank 34) needs some serious overhaul or to be removed.
the usual way it goes is that attackers win this map almost every time, this map is very unbalanced.
it's way to easy to reach the flag with ladders to bypass the main doors and the surrounding flag walls and when the attackers are at the flag it's very hard to remove them since there's no good shoot in positions for the defenders, attackers already got those with their ladders over the walls, u just get overrun or shot as defender.
If i left something out, feel free to add  :P 
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on April 30, 2011, 11:52:12 am
Thanks for the feedback. I currently don't have much time, but I'll see what I can do.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on May 14, 2011, 06:44:00 pm
I've modified the map a bit, added some doors, blocked the main road, made all roofs accessible (although most are hard to get to): http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v4.zip
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Camaris on May 15, 2011, 05:51:09 pm
It would be nice if someone tells the mapping-community of crpg how your plans are regarding ladders.

If ladders stay like they are now (3 Slots siege etc.) a lot of maps have to be redone.
If you add stronger ladders and change slotrequirements it could change again.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on May 20, 2011, 11:13:46 pm
Hmmm, maybe it's time to set up my own server...admins on EU servers seem to be busy.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Digglez on August 08, 2011, 10:03:32 pm
I do enjoy this map, but NA server still runs an old version of his map which is not very defender friendly at all. 

I've noticed that attackers have found a way to jump over the left barricade without even needing ladders...which makes defenders job just about impossible.  Plz get ATS to update their version of the map!

the barricade thats between flag wall and outer wall
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on August 09, 2011, 12:56:49 am
Yeah, I've put a barrier there so you can't just jump over anymore on the newest version. I'll post in the NA siege server thread.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Digglez on August 09, 2011, 01:09:35 am
Quote from: zagibu on August 09, 2011, 12:56:49 am
Yeah, I've put a barrier there so you can't just jump over anymore on the newest version. I'll post in the NA siege server thread.

and you use ladder to climb over? A popular and fair tactic is throwing a small ladder backwards to make a stepstool for attackers to get over the barricade.

also, I could swear I saw screenshots of ladders and catwalks for defenders in the inner flag walls.  Was I imagining things or are the screenshots in first thread out of date?

thanks for listening to the suggestion.  do you have links to your other maps? any other siege maps?
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on August 09, 2011, 07:39:39 pm
It's harder to storm the inner walls with ladders in the most current version, because there are now barricades in the main road, so you can't directly walk up to them. If you correctly place a medium ladder or larger, or if you walk around a building, it can still be done, but def has a better chance of cutting it down. And yeah, there are catwalks on the inner walls. Also, all rooftops (with exception of keep) are accessible without ladders, if you know how. I think I also added doors in some of the towers and changed the main gate.

I've made 5 siege maps:

Khirin Castle: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,95.msg806.html#msg806
Holmet Castle: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2140.msg35334.html#msg35334
Greipenfurt Castle: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2422.msg40596.html#msg40596
Jammadi Castle: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2448.msg41124.html#msg41124
Ridoma Castle: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3330.msg59736.html#msg59736

Not all of them are perfectly balanced, and there are still some locations where you can get stuck on almost all of them.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Camaris on August 10, 2011, 04:14:24 pm
Your masterpiece was khirin castle.
Its one of my favorite maps.
Like Ridoma in its new version too.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: nahilly on August 10, 2011, 04:31:09 pm
Looking at that list, I think you've built all my favourite maps.  Thanks very much!
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on September 17, 2011, 07:04:48 pm
New version up: http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v5.zip

Added third set of walls around flag, changed some barricades and relocated some entry points. Should be easier to defend now (hopefully not too easy).
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on September 19, 2011, 10:55:09 pm
New version up: http://node23.net/jammadi_castle_v5.zip ( http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=3246 )
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: Slamz on November 07, 2011, 10:57:08 am
This map is still way too easy to attack:
Siege tower to outer wall
Ladder bridge to first building
Ladder bridge to the top of the circular wall
Optional ladder straight to the flag (or just jump down and run around)

You can also do this on the ground but it's easier for defenders to break ground ladders.

A couple simple ideas...

* Add rails to the tops of the buildings.  This will prevent ladders from falling flat (I hope) and make them easier for defenders to attack.
* Add fixed ladders or ramps that lead up to those rooftops from the direction of the flag.  This won't be that useful for attackers but will help defenders get up there and break ladders and defend.  You might even put some defender spawns around these areas so they can sometimes spawn in a handy ladder breaking location.
Title: Re: Siege Map: Jammadi Castle
Post by: zagibu on November 07, 2011, 10:11:06 pm
Good suggestions, although I think I will probably completely revamp it at some point.