cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Soldier_of_God on January 18, 2012, 11:24:45 pm

Title: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Soldier_of_God on January 18, 2012, 11:24:45 pm
In a game where skill is king, there remains one bane to it all: crushthrough. Why?

1.) it crushes through blocks. unless you have a +3 steel shield and 10 shield, you're gonna get crushthrough spammed.

2.) if it crushes through, it knocks down too. combined, this equates to balls.

3.) its almost an insta kill most of the time. this is abused constantly on siege.

4.) its almost always used by trolls. and trolls are gay.

I'm sure you can think of more good reasons, but these are reasons immediately known to me, so...

VOTE DOWN CRUSHTROUGH!

-Invicti_Crudux_Cruo

P.S

Are you a crushthrough sympathiser? read below

(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Penitent on January 18, 2012, 11:37:17 pm
I hate crushthrough.  Why?  Because I am a shielder.   I can block 4 enemies at once, protect teamies, defend doorways, and delay enemies long enough for my friends to kick ass.  When a maul-wielding crushthrough comes by, all of that changes.  Sometimes, I get afraid.  Even if I am not afraid, there is always sense of panic...a sense of urgency.

That being said, we should keep crushthrough in the game.  Why?  Because it makes me think.  It makes me dodge instead of block.  It makes me focus on footwork.  It makes me learn.  It presents a situation that challenges me, and it is extremely rewarding when I do defeat an enemy class that was meant to be my bane.

Keep crushthrough.  Don't be a wuss. :) 
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Elmokki on January 18, 2012, 11:42:23 pm
In a game where skill is king, there remains one bane to it all: crushthrough. Why?

1.) it crushes through blocks. unless you have a +3 steel shield and 10 shield, you're gonna get crushthrough spammed.
I thought shield skill doesn't save you from crushthroughs.

Quote
2.) if it crushes through, it knocks down too. combined, this equates to balls.
You make it sound like it's guaranteed while it's something like 40%ish chance (depends on weapon, but a bit under 40% on great maul and 30% on pole version).

Quote
3.) its almost an insta kill most of the time. this is abused constantly on siege.
Seriously? It's high blunt but if you wear armor you'll definitely have a second chance if you don't get knocked down.

Quote
4.) its almost always used by trolls. and trolls are gay.
Also used by some players who excel at using the crappy weapons that have this feature.

Seriously, the weapons with crushthrough are slow as hell and in case of the more common great maul, short as hell. If you're onehand user you should spam them and/or range control - the 1h swords outreach the great maul. If you're a polearm/twohand user you should range control them.

It's a weapon that kills terrible people fast. Sure, I get beaten by maulers when they're actually good players, but average people with mauls are just hillarious to kill.

It's a nice mechanic and as long as the stuff that has it is fairly niche I see no reason to make the combat less diverse.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tzar on January 18, 2012, 11:42:34 pm
Also shielder here couldn't careless about crushrough weapons they are total shit unless the user stands on some wall defending a small doorway or entrance in siege...

In other words

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Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Elmetiacos on January 19, 2012, 03:00:58 am
The OP's argument seems to be "I want to stand with my huscarl shield in the corner of a tower on a siege server and be immune to all harm for ever". Bah.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 19, 2012, 03:09:04 am
Crush though is fine, for taking out turtles and other such things.

Stop asking for nerfs.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: TurmoilTom on January 19, 2012, 05:14:24 am
How to beat crushthrough:

1.) Decent footwork
2.) LMB
3.) More LMB

That's really all it takes. If you hesitate, feint, hold a swing, or try to block you're going down.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Gnjus on January 19, 2012, 09:20:54 am
In a game where skill is king

Stopped reading at this point.

Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vibe on January 19, 2012, 09:30:41 am
I personally dislike Crushthrough but would not have it removed.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 19, 2012, 09:55:07 am
Stupid shielders...    No crush trough = no shields , Remove them both.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: djavo on January 19, 2012, 10:00:24 am
BUFF POOR SHIELDERS!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Mala on January 19, 2012, 03:16:36 pm
Yeah, i am for keeping the crushthrough, but only for polearms (slim sticks) and 2hand (just some light piece of metal).
If a maul hits a shield (an heavy protection of layered wood and steel reinforcements) it should bounce off and kill the attacker.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 19, 2012, 03:21:31 pm
Yeah, i am for keeping the crushthrough, but only for polearms (slim sticks) and 2hand (just some light piece of metal).
If a maul hits a shield (an heavy protection of layered wood and steel reinforcements) it should bounce off and kill the attacker.
Or then the maul would break your  wooden shield or  knock you down  = dead after next hit) and kill you, at least break some bones , and if we are speaking about steel shields you just can't block that kinda force with your arm and shield.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Miwiw on January 19, 2012, 03:23:05 pm
Crushthrough is fine right it is now.

If you see someone engaging with a fat hammer, use footwork... Well, footwork is something you should use anyway.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Siboire on January 19, 2012, 03:24:22 pm
Somebody is buttmad he got CT'ed? But all jokes aside, CT weapons are really slow and they got the unbalance tag making them not only slow to swing but to block too! Instead of playing defensivly like you do normally as shielder, be more aggressive, keep your distance and dont wait for him to hit you before attacking! Also shield skill has nothing to do with the chance of a CT to happen, only the str/powerstrike (damage) and the weight of the CT weapon vs weight of the shield/weapon used to block affect the chance of a CT to occur on an overhead.

Beside, if they remove CT from maul, mallet and great maul, these weapon will become useless... So a big NO, keep crushtrough(CT)!
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: [ptx] on January 19, 2012, 03:27:29 pm
@OP
Go somewhere else. your kind ruin this game. thanks.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: B3RS3RK on January 19, 2012, 03:29:25 pm
@OP
Go somewhere else. your kind ruin this game. thanks.

^What he said.

Removing Crushthrough would be one of the most fucked up decisions ever to make, it would make the already not too exciting and different gameplay a bit more boring.

When will you stop?Shoull we remove Knockdown, too?Just make every weapon 120cm long with 30 cut, so we can have totally boring and repetetive battles.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Mala on January 19, 2012, 03:41:40 pm
Or then the maul would break your  wooden shield or  knock you down  = dead after next hit) and kill you, at least break some bones , and if we are speaking about steel shields you just can't block that kinda force with your arm and shield.
*Mala deflects your clumsy overhead attack and your weapon got stuck in the ground (stunned for 10 seconds)*
*Mala hits you critical for over 9000 damage*
*Do you want to respawn? (y)es (n)o*
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 19, 2012, 03:46:12 pm
*Mala deflects your clumsy overhead attack and your weapon got stuck in the ground (stunned for 10 seconds)*
*Mala hits you critical for over 9000 damage*
*Do you want to respawn? (y)es (n)o*
I would kick u and when ur stunned i would smash your head , and i don't normally use gmaul :)
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Mala on January 19, 2012, 03:50:23 pm
You are stunned, you can not kick.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on January 19, 2012, 03:52:24 pm
No.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vexus on January 19, 2012, 03:58:20 pm
Yes ashtrays would block the great maul piss easy.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Herkkutatti on January 19, 2012, 04:02:30 pm
You are stunned, you can not kick.
i can't be stunned because i would kick you first before starting to swing my maul without being sure that it hits xP . I will not be stunned if you don't use magic  8-)
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Mala on January 19, 2012, 04:30:52 pm
Yes ashtrays would block the great maul piss easy.
I have not said blocked but deflected.
There is a difference.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on January 19, 2012, 04:32:10 pm
Yep, cause we all know cprg has a deflect mechanic
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Dexxtaa on January 19, 2012, 04:55:11 pm
Terrible idea.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: MrShine on January 19, 2012, 04:58:00 pm
Only positives crushthrough has is forcing the enemy to change their tactics on the fly (ie spam them to death) and group fighting.

In groups fighting crushthrough is scary as hell, but same for a bunch of other weapons. 

L2P Edward!
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tibe on January 19, 2012, 05:08:52 pm
Shielders shouldnt be complainin at all.
If a shielder already complained about crushtrough let me complain about shielders. While all the professional players use directional block the shieldfighters are usually hogging their precious shields like its their lover. Pressing RMB and imagining your pro is not the proper way to play same as with crushtrough weapons.

To people who will write me hate posts, hold on to your keyboard fingers cause I was just being sarcastic :mrgreen:. Warband is the game of rockpaperscissors. Archers kill 2h. 1h shielders can kill archers and have advantage over 2h(very slightly), spear kills cavalry, polearm has longer reach, 2h is faster, crushtrough weapons kill shielders etc.

 I really feel that is seriuslly silly to even complain about crushtrough weps. Well SORRRYYY..... that there is acctually a easier way to kill a shielder than spamming it to death....., you just cant accept that you have to crawl out of your turtle eventually when u see a maul. Same as 2h guys cant never take shit from archers. Its the cycle of the Warband, 1 cant work without the other :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 19, 2012, 05:09:18 pm
Yep, cause we all know cprg has a deflect mechanic

Chambering.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 05:18:34 pm
Warband is the game of rockpaperscissors. Archers kill 2h. 1h shielders can kill archers and have advantage over 2h(very slightly), spear kills cavalry, polearm has longer reach, 2h is faster, crushtrough weapons kill shielders etc.

This is.. all pretty much wrong. Shielders don't really kill archers, they can defend against them. Cavalry is the true counter, along with other ranged. Shielders don't have an advantage over 2h, definitely not in cRPG. Spear kills cavalry... but what's the counter to spear, then? Polearm has longer reach than what, shielders? So does 2h. Lots of polearms also have bonus vs shield, which is the real thing here. 2h is faster than what? 1h? No. Polearms? Nope.

Not complaining, mind. Rock-paper-scissor is a retarded way of balancing.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Scrambles720 on January 19, 2012, 05:20:23 pm
Chambering.
I thought you couldnt chamber a CT weapon? Or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Memento_Mori on January 19, 2012, 05:30:00 pm
I thought you couldnt chamber a CT weapon? Or am I wrong?
afaik
Yes you can chamber it.
But still has the same chance to get crushed through as a block.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Teeth on January 19, 2012, 05:35:25 pm
In a game where skill is king, there remains one bane to it all: crushthrough. Why?

1.) it crushes through blocks. unless you have a +3 steel shield and 10 shield, you're gonna get crushthrough spammed.

2.) if it crushes through, it knocks down too. combined, this equates to balls.

3.) its almost an insta kill most of the time. this is abused constantly on siege.

4.) its almost always used by trolls. and trolls are gay.

I'm sure you can think of more good reasons, but these are reasons immediately known to me, so...

VOTE DOWN CRUSHTROUGH!

-Invicti_Crudux_Cruo

P.S

Are you a crushthrough sympathiser? read below

(click to show/hide)



In a game where skill is king, there remains one bane to it all: shielders. Why?

Shielders can always block, mauls can always attack. Seems perfectly fine to me. It's kinda the same thing.

I thought you couldnt chamber a CT weapon? Or am I wrong?
You can, doesn't mean it doesn't crushthrough. If you chamber and it gets crushed through you don't get the chamber swing and just get hit.

Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Dezilagel on January 19, 2012, 05:38:59 pm
I can't say I like the current state of CT (WAY too effective in the hands of a decent player), but I do agree that it must stay.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tibe on January 19, 2012, 05:43:20 pm
Quote
This is.. all pretty much wrong. Shielders don't really kill archers, they can defend against them. Cavalry is the true counter, along with other ranged. Shielders don't have an advantage over 2h, definitely not in cRPG. Spear kills cavalry... but what's the counter to spear, then? Polearm has longer reach than what, shielders? So does 2h. Lots of polearms also have bonus vs shield, which is the real thing here. 2h is faster than what? 1h? No. Polearms? Nope.


Nope, this is pretty much all about who you ask really. As far as I am concerned than you are damn wrong. Shielders yes defend, but they also attack archers. In the real world 1 vs 1 yes, cavalry is the true counter of a archer. But most archers are camping on the roof tops or are guarded by shielders or polearmers. So in C-rpg, it should be cavalry, but its really not. Shielders do have an advantage over 2h, again, they shouldnt, but they do. Very constantly in spectate I see, how a noob shielder who presses RMB to block and only comes out from the turtle stance when he hears a bump overwhelms  quite decent 2h player, who just eventually cant keep directionalblocking correctly forever. ....And do i really have to explain to you what counters a spear, use your brain man, its not so hard to figure out you know, I dont have to spell out everything so oblivious -.-. 2h is faster than polearms, yes, totally true, again seen it, can clearly say it. And the bonus against shield for polearms, is still spamming a shielder to death, only shield breaks faster.

Quote
Not complaining, mind. Rock-paper-scissor is a retarded way of balancing.

I dunno man, again, depends uppon who you ask. In my oppinion atleast, it keeps a game nicely balanced and removes the option of everybody just spamming 1 class and this way every1 can be of use. Again, its really the matter of oppinion, but ive played Warband evesince it came out and ive really examined......true, it doesnt show from my skill of combat which is just moderate(mybe even below :rolleyes:).
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 05:50:28 pm
Shielders do have an advantage over 2h, again, they shouldnt, but they do

No, they really don't. It's easier to fight a decent 2hander/polearm user without a shield than with a shield. 2h/polearms have damage, reach and better animations (because a decent 2her/polearmer won't let a 1hander close enough to really abuse the fast left slash/overheads) for the medium-to-long distance range.

And do i really have to explain to you what counters a spear, use your brain man, its not so hard to figure out you know, I dont have to spell out everything so oblivious -.-

Yes. What counters war spear?

2h is faster than polearms, yes, totally true, again seen it, can clearly say it.

It's true because you "seen it"? Err, right. Well, I seen otherwise. Both are as fast, depending on the individual speed stat of the weapon.

And the bonus against shield for polearms, is still spamming a shielder to death, only shield breaks faster.

Que?
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: San on January 19, 2012, 05:58:44 pm
They are stupid weapons but keep them in. I just think they should be dedicated support weapons so their flaws actually show.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tibe on January 19, 2012, 06:06:32 pm
Quote
No, they really don't. It's easier to fight a decent 2hander/polearm user without a shield than with a shield. 2h/polearms have damage, reach and better animations (because a decent 2her/polearmer won't let a 1hander close enough to really abuse the fast left slash/overheads) for the medium-to-long distance range.

Odd if its so much easier to fight without a shield, than why wont almost anybody do it, even when they have a chance for 1 vs 1. No archers or anything. The wont let a 1handler close thing depends on the athletics skill of the fighter and mostly 90% of fights ive seen, the shielder will get close and if he doesnt suck completely or isnt surrounded by swarms of enemies, takes a 2h out, with his shield strong enough for 3 more fights. Crushtrough is needed imo.

Quote
Yes. What counters war spear?

shielders, but also a  2h/polearm will do the job.

Quote
It's true because you "seen it"? Err, right. Well, I seen otherwise. Both are as fast, depending on the individual speed stat of the weapon.

Everybody sees differently. Its kinda natural human behavior

How about we just agree to disagree. You will never convince me you know, nor I doubt will I manage to convince you. :D
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Xant on January 19, 2012, 06:35:54 pm
Odd if its so much easier to fight without a shield, than why wont almost anybody do it, even when they have a chance for 1 vs 1. No archers or anything. The wont let a 1handler close thing depends on the athletics skill of the fighter and mostly 90% of fights ive seen, the shielder will get close and if he doesnt suck completely or isnt surrounded by swarms of enemies, takes a 2h out, with his shield strong enough for 3 more fights. Crushtrough is needed imo.
Because pretty much everyone is bad? You can't judge what's good and what's not by what most people do. It doesn't depend on athletics, it depends on the other guy knowing the basics of kicking.

shielders, but also a  2h/polearm will do the job.
Anything can kill a warspear user, obviously, it doesn't grant immortality, but how do shielders or 2h/polearms counter the weapon?
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tibe on January 19, 2012, 07:19:36 pm
Quote
it depends on the other guy knowing the basics of kicking.

Honestly man, how many people have you seen pulling off a nice kick, constantly? Kicking is completely different story. When you speak of weapon countering than kicking and chambering are completely different story. The basics of kicking and chambering depends on every classes performance, they have no place in the current discussion....... :rolleyes:

Quote
You can't judge what's good and what's not by what most people do.

Ahh, but thats where you are wrong my friend, that is the only way to judge what is good and what is not. Man I can see that myself that the sword swings way better without the shield, but apparently nobody does it. Every1 will rather use a shield, than take a shot at the directional blocking. Point proven, it is easier to fight with a shield, than without 1, cause if it was the other way around, every1 would stick their shields on their backs and 1h without it in a chance of a fair fight, but that happens very rarely. So I can judge what is good and what is not by what the majority does.

There really isnt much to talk about the spear......
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Casimir on January 19, 2012, 07:21:11 pm
learn to play.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: [ptx] on January 19, 2012, 07:25:25 pm
Ahh, but thats where you are wrong my friend, that is the only way to judge what is good and what is not. Man I can see that myself that the sword swings way better without the shield, but apparently nobody does it. Every1 will rather use a shield, than take a shot at the directional blocking. Point proven, it is easier to fight with a shield, than without 1, cause if it was the other way around, every1 would stick their shields on their backs and 1h without it in a chance of a fair fight, but that happens very rarely. So I can judge what is good and what is not by what the majority does.
It is easier to fight without a shield, unless you are facing multiple enemies - you can return attacks faster most of the time and it is easier to defend against some feints. When facing one enemy, you usually don't put it on your back for a number of reasons:
A) Some shields obstruct your view that way, making it harder to see what is happening
B) There might be some ranged around
C) Putting shield on back takes a little bit of time, just like switching a weapon and the other guy usually doesn't give you that time
D) Forgetting about it/out of habit (you have spent the entire round with it up, defending against ranged and whatnot, afterall)

If you had played shielder for a decent amount of time against difficult enemies, then you'd know this :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vodner on January 19, 2012, 07:30:14 pm
Quote
shielders, but also a  2h/polearm will do the job.
With decent PS, the warspear is one of the best dueling polearms out there. It certainly isn't hard-countered by shielders, two-handers, or other polearms (nor should it be). A better player of any of those classes can kill a warspear user, but that's a player countering another player - not a weapon countering another weapon.

Not complaining - that's exactly how things should be.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Kafein on January 19, 2012, 07:33:34 pm
If anything, crushtrough is a little underplayed. Knockdown however, is a retarded feature atm.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Phew on January 19, 2012, 08:05:18 pm
I'm playing shielder for this and future generations, and I think the crushthrough mechanic is OK. It makes me adjust my tactics on the fly and is somewhat easily countered.

What is NOT cool is that currently a guy can carry both a Great Maul and 2H Sword, and have the best weapon for every situation.

Long Maul is perfectly balanced right now. The other crushthrough weapons need to also be 3 slot and/or unsheathable. Make mauler a dedicated support role, and it would still be very powerful in that capacity (just like Pikers are still very powerful, they just can't pull out a Bec for 1v1).
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: ironfox on January 19, 2012, 08:35:59 pm
You a dang fool.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 19, 2012, 08:53:51 pm
Crush through weapons are really only useful with a teammate (preferably someone with a long stick or a sword/board).  If they are all alone they are easy targets.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Soldier_of_God on January 20, 2012, 05:03:11 am
I'm truly surprised that there are so many crush-through sympathizers. well, thats democracy for ya ;P
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Xant on January 20, 2012, 05:27:00 am
Honestly man, how many people have you seen pulling off a nice kick, constantly? Kicking is completely different story. When you speak of weapon countering than kicking and chambering are completely different story. The basics of kicking and chambering depends on every classes performance, they have no place in the current discussion....... :rolleyes:

No, it's not. Fact of the matter is that 1h gets affected most by kicks. Even without kicks, you'll be able to hit a shielder twice for every one of their hit quite often.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Nagasoup on January 20, 2012, 05:52:53 am
Lol at people saying shielders have an advantage over 2h  :lol:

Only noob 2h who can't block have trouble with shielders, but when fighting any skilled players the shield becomes a liability.

I voted yes because getting killed by crushthrough is the most rage-inducing thing that can happen in c-rpg. They're not OP, but I just really really REALLY hate them.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 20, 2012, 05:56:08 am
I voted yes because getting killed by crushthrough is the most rage-inducing thing that can happen in c-rpg. They're not OP, but I just really really REALLY hate them.

And this, folks, is a perfect example of why the Masses are often ignored.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vexus on January 20, 2012, 10:34:11 am
Well the poll speaks for itself.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Mala on January 20, 2012, 09:55:13 pm
Well the poll speaks for itself.

Yepp, it shows a surpressed minority, so it should taken out of the game.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Malaclypse on February 07, 2012, 02:17:03 pm
As much as non-crushthrough users hate the mechanic, it has a place in Warband, and cRPG. I wouldn't count on it going away, even if the poll results were the opposite. Protip: if you can't get out of range and you have no choice but to attempt to block an overhead from a Maul, jump up. Catching it earlier in the arc can reduce either the chance it'll break through or the damage if it does.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 07, 2012, 11:48:07 pm
P.S

Are you a crushthrough sympathiser? read below

(click to show/hide)
haha :D
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 08, 2012, 03:38:47 am
Chamber you useless gimp.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: isatis on February 08, 2012, 04:04:45 am
add that boulder on stick so we can see REAL crushthrought wep in action.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Aleta on February 18, 2012, 02:06:41 am
I say remove crushthrough weapons' ability to block and buff their stats a bit. (especially speed)
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Leshma on February 18, 2012, 02:19:57 am
At least remove knockdown tag from crushtrough weapons. Having both is a bit OP.

Edit: Sorry, my bad. I forgoto that when you get hit by CT weapon and you survive you get knocked down. Pretty retarded game mechanics, if you ask me. They should just allow free hit trough block, not disable the dude for few seconds.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 02:25:48 am
My signature never fails on these cases.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Leshma on February 18, 2012, 02:30:07 am
I'll duel you for money once okiN start taking bets. Actually I'll you both of you and that Garison dude, for the same reason.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: IG_Saint on February 18, 2012, 02:32:24 am
My signature never fails on these cases.

Didn't I see you running around with a great maul the other day on siege? Lobby much, koldborn?  :)

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Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 02:58:49 am
Didn't I see you running around with a great maul the other day on siege? Lobby much, koldborn?  :)

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Perhaps, the same way you might have seen me with any other specc this game allows along my main 20 gens and 6 alt gens. I like to know the stuff before talking about it.  :wink:

Also, don't need to lobby, it's constant the nerfhammer on mauls, enough to render the pole maul obsolete.

These mechanics exist for a reason, not that hard to think a bit about it and realize which one.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Gurnisson on February 18, 2012, 03:01:23 am
Actually I'll you both of you and that Gurnisson dude

Bring it on! :lol:
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Leshma on February 18, 2012, 03:06:02 am
Well I'll duel your as well once whole betting thing starts, why not. Although I think that weapon you use on your main is immensely gay :P
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: IG_Saint on February 18, 2012, 03:15:04 am
These mechanics exist for a reason, not that hard to think a bit about it and realize which one.

Again, I agree with you, I use the great maul from time to time as well, people need to stop whining about every little thing and just learn to deal with it. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to call you out on a post supporting your (current) weapon. Oh and just 6 alts? Talk to me when you have 17 and we'll be on the same page  :P.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Gurnisson on February 18, 2012, 03:17:26 am
Although I think that weapon you use on your main is immensely gay :P

Which one(s)? :mrgreen:

As for mauls. They're mostly balanced but shit gets out of hand in some siege maps where you can only use like 3 ladders (now that personal ladders are gone). Always two maulers at each ladder which makes the defender's job pretty much impossible. Don't remember the names of those castle though.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 03:57:06 am
Again, I agree with you, I use the great maul from time to time as well, people need to stop whining about every little thing and just learn to deal with it. I just couldn't resist the opportunity to call you out on a post supporting your (current) weapon. Oh and just 6 alts? Talk to me when you have 17 and we'll be on the same page  :P.

Tell me when you get 20 gens on your main, switching specc every new one, and we'll be on the same page :P.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 01:59:52 pm
This isn't a contest of who is more Lifeless then the other.

Only mentioned that to corroborate my previous statements.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Dravic on February 18, 2012, 02:26:28 pm
Don't remove crushthrough, I am having extremely big fun dueling people who use those toys with my 13 athletics character.

Never seen any of them whine about me... strange. Usually they attempt to swing overhead, I step back, before they end their animation, I step in and hit them once or twice. Rinse and repeat till they are dead or till someone kills me before I can kill my target.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 03:26:20 pm
People tend to whine about certain mechanics/items when they see 1 or 2 members doing well with it. It's completely natural and god help us if the item balancing team / developers listen to those desperate cries.

It's amazingly easy to disable a mauler, but seems easier to whine about it on forums.  :oops:

I can leave a couple of tips here for those having an hard time:

 1 - NEVER try to stab a mauler. The block stun will mock at you and you're dead.

 2 - AVOID at all costs doing obvious overheads, for the same reason stated above.

 3 - KICK ability is priceless versus a rushing overhead mauler if you don't have the time to hit him first.

 4 - BLOCK (or CHAMBER if you're comfortable with this mechanic) those side swings, with concise hold blocks, the side swing animation of the maul induces in error, since it's slow, and connects weirdly, resulting most of the times in a knockdown.

 5 - RUN from a mauler when he's surrounded by YOUR team mates. This is a TH nest situation and the way overheads connect on the mauler are deadly. If he knows how to time and turn properly while spamming overheads, you don't want to be near.

 6 - USE polestagger ability if possible, either yours, or a team mate.

 7 - SHIELDERS hide your shield on the back if 1 on 1 a mauler. The shield won't help at all, and only make you slower.

Another good observation is that the deadliest maulers, are the ones in medium (loomed if possible) gear, who don't have to rely on glancing hits from enemies while spamming away. A good combo of speed + PS is priceless.

Hope this helps in anyway,
Cheers
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Leshma on February 18, 2012, 03:38:16 pm
I just love being schooled by worse players than myself :D
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Aleta on February 18, 2012, 04:09:17 pm
People tend to whine about certain mechanics/items when they see 1 or 2 members doing well with it. It's completely natural and god help us if the item balancing team / developers listen to those desperate cries.

It's amazingly easy to disable a mauler, but seems easier to whine about it on forums.  :oops:

I can leave a couple of tips here for those having an hard time:
(click to show/hide)
Another good observation is that the deadliest maulers, are the ones in medium (loomed if possible) gear, who don't have to rely on glancing hits from enemies while spamming away. A good combo of speed + PS is priceless.

Hope this helps in anyway,
Cheers

So, the way to win over a mauler is:

I wouldn't exactly say that this is amazingly easy. It's obvious that a uber high athletics character can win easily against someone with a maul, but a most people either have more than 12 strength or aren't that high level. I'm not saying remove crushthrough though, I think it's a great addition to the game. Actually if we want the game to be realistic, all weapons should have a chance for crushthrough, but the "chance" being a bit lower and based on weapon weight. (the difference in the blockers and the attackers weapons' weight should determine the chance for crushthrough, in addition to the difference in the 2 people's strength). It seems realistic to me that a small weak person trying to block an overhead strike from an uber strong viking with a giant axe with a butter knife, might fail at doing so, breaking his own arm in the attempt and getting the axe right in his face.

Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 05:03:41 pm
Like I said, " a couple of tips ", no the whole "how to deal with maulers, for noobs!".

It's up for any of you to do what you want with those tips, ask for more, criticize, etc.

@ Aleta,

  Don't fall into the error of thinking that it's easier with high ATH chars to deal with maulers, the bigger the speed, lesser the damage, bigger the chance to use proper footwork + speed bonus, and bigger the "bounce/wiff" factor on the target. It's all very complex and specially, very situational, and it's it's obvious that more casual players might have an hard time dealing with this, but on the bright side, casual maulers are terrible anyway.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: karasu on February 18, 2012, 06:14:23 pm
Never try to stab a mauler? My favorite weapon is the long spear and the ashwood pike, and I beat 8/10 maulers by stabbing, lol.

Like I said, bad maulers will act as one.  :lol:

I have 0 problems with the maul dealing with any sort of pikers. Specially awlpikers. But the stab stun is a death sentence.

The tips I gave are mostly in a 1 on 1 situation. Ofc you can stab'em if they're not looking at you.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vodner on February 18, 2012, 07:02:39 pm
Quote
SHIELDERS hide your shield on the back if 1 on 1 a mauler. The shield won't help at all, and only make you slower.
Removing your shield leaves you exposed to weapon stun on held sideswings. Also, putting your shield on your back does not make you any faster.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Kalp on February 18, 2012, 08:23:40 pm
learn to play.
This is the best opinion about this thread.

Great maul is not a crushtrough. It's a way of life.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Kansuke on February 24, 2012, 05:38:25 pm
I'd just leave it there...
 
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Trying great maul for the first time on siege with 21/18 build, 7 PS and the same peasant gear for the whole map.

Now just imagine how it could be with heavy armor considering almost no block was needed for most fight.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Vexus on February 24, 2012, 05:43:52 pm
Try doing that in a battle server before showing screenshots.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Casimir on February 24, 2012, 05:50:20 pm
Yeah the maul is a weapon which is kid of designed for siege play, especially defence.

Narrow fighting space, reduced speed from walking on walls not to mention the fact that siege players do tend to block alot less than battle :P
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Phew on February 28, 2012, 03:24:50 pm
Mauls are totally over-the-top on siege. Two maulers on top of a ladder completely lock it down, and can get 15+ kills a round without even having to block once.

To me though, the worst part of maulers is that their weapon is so heavy, they just have to block you once then you are weapon stunned for an eternity. So the oft-repeated mantra of "just spam the mauler" is totally bunk, because as soon as they block you once, your weapon is slower than theirs for the next attack.

I say don't remove crushthrough, but make all weapons with crushthrough unable to block (except chambers). After all, if you use a weapon which nullifies your opponent's blocks, you shouldn't be able to block either. Realism-wise, it's ridiculous to watch someone with a 20 lb rock on a stick parry a longsword/katana all day like they are using a fencing foil.
Title: Re: Vote No on Crushthrough (petition to remove crushthrough
Post by: Herkkutatti on February 28, 2012, 03:26:04 pm
hate it when people are stupid and post crap and after that hides their post, bundle of stickss all of you