cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Ragni_Bross on January 17, 2012, 10:29:05 pm
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I've heard a lot of guys complain about archers and shields recently and this is what I have to say :P
I'm a shielder and I'd say that our biggest enemy isn't archers and crossbowmen but lame ass AGI-whoring über-buckler- lamers :P Everything we can do they can do better. Block arrows check, block everything else, check. It makes no sense at all. Bucklers were used commonly, yea, but that's because they were easy to carry around not because they were more efficient than real fucking shields.
Vikingr, the only mod with somewhat realistic and fair combat, has the shields all right. If your shield is too smal to cover your entire body, you risk getting hit by missiles. If you cover your head you might get hit in your legs and vice versa. MAKES PERFECT SENSE! I'm a shielder (I prefer to use cheaper, better looking shields that actually go with my outfit rather than whatever has the best stats (like a buckler)) and I say make it so. Not only does it take quite some skill to be able to block every single incoming blow with a small buckler, especially when you're attacked by multiple opponents, but it takes ninja-like skills to block incoming missiles with a shield the size of a dinner plate. If the shields actually worked like they do in Vikingr and in real life big shields would actually be usefull. Why d'you think crossbowmen carried pavises and not bucklers? Size matters.
Also. Make the shields work as described before, they only cover what they actually cover, and make the big shields require less shield skill while adding a STR-difficulty. Using a huscarl shield or a board shield for blocking attacks would be far easier than blocking with a buckler, though it would take more strenght to carry them around and use them properly.
Nerf bucklers. Just not fair that they get to block arrows coming at their toes while only covering their left hand and part of their torso.
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Stop.
Nerfing.
Everything.
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NOW my suggestion, when some1 will cry again and bagging for nerf = he got permabanned!
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Historical fact: Bucklers were used by archers as a shield for defence. Realy noy intended to take allot of hits because archers mainly dont get into melee fight IRL (not IRL now but before, u know :lol:). It was also lighty made so the archers whould be quick on their feet and not have a big ass (better protection) shield with them. So I say nerf bucklers maybe some points but not to much, :mrgreen:
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I'm not suggesting that it should offer less protection against melee attacks (although I certainly wouldn't mind if those AGI-whores got nerfed in that way too), I'm just suggesting that it shouldn't offer protection against missile weapons at all.
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No protection against missiles is a bit mean :lol: but that would / should resault into the buckler getting allot of dmg resistans since it then cant block missiles, something i doubt it would do IRL
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It might be, but I really love the way you can only protect yourself from missiles by covering vital parts of your body with your shield in Vikingr. Makes good sense, know what I mean? :D
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buckler block missles very bad, try it before post it here, all shileds shoud not have this stupid force fields, so ranged can shoot heads or legs, i think it would be good and realistic then!
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Bucklers are the only issues I've ever had with being a shielder :P They really shouldn't block arrows.
Here's another suggestion. Make the shields work as described before, they only cover what they actually cover, and make the big shields require less shield skill while adding a STR-difficulty. Using a huscarl shield or a board shield for blocking attacks would be far easier than blocking with a buckler though it would take more strenght to carry them around and use them properly.
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permaban for this lil girl! crpg has much worse disbalance problem, then some 1 shield, that is sure not op. 80 hp only man
just look people run with no heads now and with 40 invis reach weapons, and you cry here about buckler, shame on you!
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permaban for this lil girl! crpg has much worse disbalance problem, then some 1 shield, that is sure not op. 80 hp only man
just look people run with no heads now and with 40 invis reach weapons, and you cry here about buckler, shame on you!
I pointed out a thing that could be dealt with easily. I never said "cRPG is fine the only thing that needs fixing is the bucklers!" Shut up yourself and don't you "girl" me till you've beat me :P It's more than just one shield BTW, I suggested that every shield should lose its Jedi-force field and only protect what it actually covers.
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then make theme about all shileds, not only about 1, because it is egoistic, you will nerf some other people stuff, and keep your strong enough, it is not good.
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then make theme about all shileds, not only about 1, because it is egoistic, you will nerf some other people stuff, and keep your strong enough, it is not good.
Don't be more of an idiot than you are. I never even mentioned what kind of shields I use. I might use a shitty round shield for all you know. There's no point in preserving a balance when it's all wrong. If this was ever implemented, which I doubt it ever will because people are selfish idiots only ever wanting to get more buffs, it would affect all shielders, me included.
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hope all shielders will have this nerf someday
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hope all shielders will have this nerf someday
That's the point FFS.
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... So I say nerf bucklers maybe some points but not to much, :mrgreen:
Buckler size was reduced several times from original shield size 25 to the current shield size 4.
The first time it was after a lot of archers complaints, while i had shield skill 10 (which counters the arrow threat) and nearly no offensive potential.
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that shield is to smal to be so awsome against archers... to small
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Whine some more about feinting instead, that at least gives everyone a good laugh.
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This isn't a nerf to bucklers as much as a minor buff to ranged...which they need.
It's all perspective.
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Nerf leoking +1
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Whine some more about feinting instead, that at least gives everyone a good laugh.
I don't do Bjording any more. Some of us actually grow up. Go cry about your wooden PC somewhere else. This thread is about learning from Vikingr and improving the faulty combat system, nothing else. Don't you find it odd that bucklers are as good or even better than larger shields at blocking missiles?
I didn't mention your name or insult you in any way so there should be no reason at all for you to leave shitty comments for me.
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Stop.
Nerfing.
Everything.
I've been ranting about this for a month now. Stop nerfing everything. C-rpg is nerf upon nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
Tell the players to suck it up and learn how to counter a classes strengths, by exploiting their weaknesses. It's called tactics. If people are too retarded to use tactics to overcome an obstacle, that's their fault. It doesn't mean something needs to be nerfed.
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... Don't you find it odd that bucklers are as good or even better than larger shields at blocking missiles?
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Hmm, maybe it has something to do with the shape. Leoking uses the round and and he say that he can catch nearly every arrow.
I use the oval one and it works only sometimes for direct frontal attacks, but then i ahve a bit higher shieldskill, which grands you better arrow blocking.
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I've been ranting about this for a month now. Stop nerfing everything. C-rpg is nerf upon nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
Tell the players to suck it up and learn how to counter a classes strengths, by exploiting their weaknesses. It's called tactics. If people are too retarded to use tactics to overcome an obstacle, that's their fault. It doesn't mean something needs to be nerfed.
Ehm I'm a shielder myself. What I'm suggesting would decrease the efficiency of most shields. What were you saying again?
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Hmm, maybe it has something to do with the shape. Leoking uses the round and and he say that he can catch nearly every arrow.
I use the oval one and it works only sometimes for direct frontal attacks, but then i ahve a bit higher shieldskill, which grands you better arrow blocking.
But why would it ever catch arrows coming at your feet or at your head? In Vikingr you have to make up your mind and either protect your head or your legs (most people protect their heads :P). It would make perfect sense to make cPRG work like that too and it would be a realistic way to buff archery. Bucklers were never meant to block arrows, thus the size. If they implemented crouching too you could crough and cover your entire body, even with shields that wouldn't normally allow that.
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I've been ranting about this for a month now. Stop nerfing everything. C-rpg is nerf upon nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
Tell the players to suck it up and learn how to counter a classes strengths, by exploiting their weaknesses. It's called tactics. If people are too retarded to use tactics to overcome an obstacle, that's their fault. It doesn't mean something needs to be nerfed.
+999
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i run just now with buckler, and pretty big amont of shots come thru it, much time in legs, from side it also hit way more then with big shields.
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i run just now with buckler, and pretty big amont of shots come thru it, much time in legs, from side it also hit way more then with big shields.
I have an archer alt and whenever I aim at their feet and the arrow travels t'wards their feet it magically attaches itself to the buckler instead of doing damage. Again, what I'm suggesting isn't to nerf bucklers directly, but to buff archers in a realistic way and make larger shield useable. I suggest, as mentioned many times before, that you only protect what you cover. If you don't cover your feet you risk getting hit. If you don't cover your head you risk getting HS. Just as in real life :P
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Well, the buckler is not that small, it covers my whole upper body (and in reality you can move it around a bit more than ingame, that is why there is the force field).
I made a video back then (i think this was with shield skill 6).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPO2Xri3js
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to make it you shoud have something like leoking 9 shieldskill, just try make shielder with something like 5 shield and every 1 will shoot you in body not in shield, maybe you are just bad archer who cant aim?
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Well, the buckler is not that small, it covers my whole upper body (and in reality you can move it around a bit more than ingame, that is why there is the force field).
I made a video back then (i think this was with shield skill 6).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUPO2Xri3js
You can move everything around but that does not make you able to catch arrows coming at your feet or your eyes if you're protecting your upper body. Again, Vikingr has it all right, you can protect whatever you're covering.
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maybe for you would be better then go and play Vikingr?
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Ehm I'm a shielder myself. What I'm suggesting would decrease the efficiency of most shields. What were you saying again?
Shielder or not, what you're suggesting is a nerf.
C-rpg has been nerf upon nerf.
Do you know what a daisy chain is? If so, you'll know what I mean when I say c-rpg started with a nerf, and daisy chained into nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
two really easy to show examples:
make arrows go from cut to pierce damage (nerf), and then a lot of people start using plated armor, so much that people start complaining about plated armor. So dev's decide to either make plated armor weigh more, or protect you less. Or they make it so the 2h weapons are nerfed (the plated armor's preferred choice).
Or recently they made pikes and long spears from 2 slots to 3 (nerf), and then a shit ton of people started riding around on horses. Enough that people started making a lot of noise about how horses are overpowered. C-rpg's normal stance would be to nerf horses then. When the problem isn't horses being overpowered, it's that they weakened the natural defense to horses (long pointy sticks).
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to make it you shoud have something like leoking 9 shieldskill, just try make shielder with something like 5 shield and every 1 will shoot you in body not in shield, maybe you are just bad archer who cant aim?
Uhh maybe certainly you dont know how archery works and have know idea what you are talking about ?
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im 12 gens xbowman) and i know how to shoot. And with higher shiled skill, shielder block miessles better, and on eu 1 just couple high agi shielders with bucklers.
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So what is it that people have against shields actually working like shields? What do you have against archers being able to hit your feet or your head if you're not covering them? Why do you insist on making board shields useless and obsolete? :P
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Ok, another try. Ingame you can only hold your shield in front of you, but in reality you have a bit larger movement radius.
Anyway, other ranged fighters are able to hit the person behind the smaller shields.
Maybe they know a trick.
PS: In vikingr you have fixed classes with fixed stats, so the fore field causes not that much trouble there.
In cRPG you can have a way higher shield-skill, which is the counter to ranged attacks. So i have invested a lot of points to catch some of the arrows with my 2x2 size buckler (this is a tiny metal plate on the backside on my glove, while the ingame model is more than ten times that large).
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Ok, another try. Ingame you can only hold your shield in front of you, but in reality you have a bit larger movement radius.
Anyway, other ranged fighters are able to hit the person behind the smaller shields.
Maybe they know a trick.
PS: In vikingr you have fixed classes with fixed stats, so the fore field causes not that much trouble there.
In cRPG you can have a way higher shield-skill, which is the counter to ranged attacks. So i have invested a lot of points to catch some of the arrows with my 2x2 size buckler (this is a tiny metal plate on the backside on my glove, while the ingame model is more than ten times that large).
Not ten minutes ago I sent an arrow flying towards my opponent's feet. Through magic it attached itself to his shield that certainly did not cover his feet. I know you can move your shield around in real life, but catching arrows takes extreme reflexes. Catching several arrows coming at different body parts at the same time is impossible. I only suggest this because I'm sad that the larger and more cumbersome shields are useless. It would be nice with different shields for different situations, boards for battles, bucklers for duels, etc. I just think it's fucked up and weird that those with enough AGI get to catch every arrow coming at them with their bucklers AND get to block every incoming blow. Using a buckler effectively takes great skill, catching arrows with one is barely possible which is why it was never meant to be used that way.
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... I just think it's fucked up and weird that those with enough AGI get to catch every arrow coming at them with their bucklers AND get to block every incoming blow. ...
It is not every incoming hit.
And high agi comes with a price. More points in agility means less in strength, which leads to less damage and less hitpoints.
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I agree.
But i want entire crpg to be more like the vikinr way of fighting.
But that will never be done:(
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Also lol'd at BJORD coming in and playing mr. i'm a little sad man that trys to troll evrywhere i go, in fact i rather think he has that message playing in his head al day long : hey im bjord i cant deal with shit so i flame, hey im bjord i cant deal with shit so i flame . Litteraly mindfuckin himself and evryone around him thank godness im now the women that got that walking catastrophy coming out me.
ALSO going into discussion with him is like the paralympics you can win but you wil still be retard so any post coming after this by our hungarian fucktard is to be ignored.
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I've always looked on shield skill as to how good you're at using your shield to full advantage. With the increasing 'forcefield' with higher shield skill I look at it as that the wielder gets better at moving his shield around to protect from melee strike and arrows.
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I've been ranting about this for a month now. Stop nerfing everything. C-rpg is nerf upon nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
Tell the players to suck it up and learn how to counter a classes strengths, by exploiting their weaknesses. It's called tactics. If people are too retarded to use tactics to overcome an obstacle, that's their fault. It doesn't mean something needs to be nerfed.
You, sir, are most likely retarded.
This is a medieval game. Everything should at least be partially real, otherwise there is no point. I don't fire arrows to fire at invisible walls. I fire them there to hit the target. You cannot tell me that a man can be in battle AND block an incoming arrow at once. If he can block an arrow with his tiny shield, I may as well be able to block them with full metal gauntlets. Hell, Mythbusters even has an episode on this. It is impossible.
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I've always looked on shield skill as to how good you're at using your shield to full advantage. With the increasing 'forcefield' with higher shield skill I look at it as that the wielder gets better at moving his shield around to protect from melee strike and arrows.
This is a medieval game. Everything should at least be partially real, otherwise there is no point. I don't fire arrows to fire at invisible walls. I fire them there to hit the target. You cannot tell me that a man can be in battle AND block an incoming arrow at once. If he can block an arrow with his tiny shield, I may as well be able to block them with full metal gauntlets. Hell, Mythbusters even has an episode on this. It is impossible.
I copied that from the above post. It is extremely hard to time these things whilst fighting, and guarding yourself against an object that is going 90+ miles an hour that is the same size as a quarter.
Also, most people are probably trolls but IDGAF. Point remains.
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It is not every incoming hit.
And high agi comes with a price. More points in agility means less in strength, which leads to less damage and less hitpoints.
It's not that much of a price. Most AGI-bucklers I meet do as much damage as me and have no idea how and why. I just think it's unfair that AGI-whores get to be faster, do decent damage and not only can they step in and out of harm's way they can also block five arrows coming at them through magic! :P
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Ragni, as awesome as you are, I see one major flaw in your argumentation: You are speaking of Vikingr, not cRPG. Gurnisson mentioned at least a semi-realistic game/mod, which cRPG actually is atm. Vikingr, afaik, tries to go full realism. I don't like those Bucklerhax either, but got used to living with them. Leftswingspam with 8PS usually gets them running away or having no more shield. If you want what you're implying here, stay at Vikingr.
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Shielder or not, what you're suggesting is a nerf.
C-rpg has been nerf upon nerf.
Do you know what a daisy chain is? If so, you'll know what I mean when I say c-rpg started with a nerf, and daisy chained into nerf upon nerf upon nerf.
two really easy to show examples:
make arrows go from cut to pierce damage (nerf), and then a lot of people start using plated armor, so much that people start complaining about plated armor. So dev's decide to either make plated armor weigh more, or protect you less. Or they make it so the 2h weapons are nerfed (the plated armor's preferred choice).
Or recently they made pikes and long spears from 2 slots to 3 (nerf), and then a shit ton of people started riding around on horses. Enough that people started making a lot of noise about how horses are overpowered. C-rpg's normal stance would be to nerf horses then. When the problem isn't horses being overpowered, it's that they weakened the natural defense to horses (long pointy sticks).
Duh, the strength (or weakness) of anything is NOT determined by the QUANTITY of nerfs it has received. I am so sick of the argumentation that some people use "OMG MAH CLASS HAS RECEIVED 3 (!) NERFS, SO UNDERPOWERED" A nerf is not a fixed modifier, ffs.
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Also lol'd at BJORD coming in and playing mr. i'm a little sad man that trys to troll evrywhere i go, in fact i rather think he has that message playing in his head al day long : hey im bjord i cant deal with shit so i flame, hey im bjord i cant deal with shit so i flame . Litteraly mindfuckin himself and evryone around him thank godness im now the women that got that walking catastrophy coming out me.
ALSO going into discussion with him is like the paralympics you can win but you wil still be retard so any post coming after this by our hungarian fucktard is to be ignored.
What did he just say?
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