cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 12:15:30 am

Title: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 12:15:30 am
Same as before, but taken down for no reason.

Weapons patch making the game easier for casual gamers instead of having them get better and more skilled

Lowering the speed of right swings changing crap in the game and watering it down. Skill based game turning into funfun easy mode for noobies. You wanna get good? Practice play thats how you get good. Not nerfing the weapon speeds and shit
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Christo on January 04, 2012, 12:19:35 am
Mod is dead

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: SquishMitten on January 04, 2012, 12:27:31 am
Hitslash isn't an issue if you can block
Great logic, nothing is an issue if you can block
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2012, 12:28:47 am
I sense rage in this post, especially in the poll. Although this may not be the way to get attention to the issue, I do agree. With the increase of skill, which has been huge over the past year, this game has become a blockfest.

While longer than 10 sec fights were rarely seen a year ago, they are the norm now. Everyone can block, the average player can almost block me indefinitely when he focuses on defending. This is indirectly a great buff to ranged and cavalry, and a great nerf to shielders.

Buff to cavalry and ranged, because the melee take up way more of eachothers times and have more time to shoot and kill unaware infantry. A nerf to shielder cause having autoblock isn´t all that useful anymore.

Still, the devs persist in making this game slower in every patch. Now they even make the game slower to prevent one of the few things that could break up a blocking match, the hiltslash. It wasn´t actually that easy to do and was a nice thing to learn after you learn to block to make you have the edge over the average player. The percentage of people that could actually confidently do it in battle was very small, and they deserved it.

The whole nerf mentality should stop now. If something is overpowered, buff the rest, or just speed up the game as a whole. There is too high average skill for this speed.

Maybe instead of saying no to speeding up, the potential gamebreakers if the speed gets increased should get fixed. Slow down the 1h leftslash and speed up the other directions. The current leftslashspam is dumb and unnecesarry, as the devs seem to be able to modify every animation´s speed individually. And then speed up the whole game.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 12:36:32 am
Great logic, nothing is an issue if you can block

It is great logic since a Dev said the change was due to hitslashing. Which if You're good or decent you can just block a left then a right swing. Not correct? So try again. The answer isn't lowering the speed so SOME people can deal with it, It's getting better by playing.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Kafein on January 04, 2012, 01:06:07 am
If you can't land a hit on someone without your precious hiltslash or without abusing your weapon's range, seriously, L2P.

There's no player that won't drop for a good combination of feints and holds. Even Jaako. Even those IG perfect blocker freaks.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 01:10:36 am
If you can't land a hit on someone without your precious hiltslash or without abusing your weapon's range, seriously, L2P.

There's no player that won't drop for a good combination of feints and holds. Even Jaako. Even those IG perfect blocker freaks.

Yes yes we know this it is common sense for the decent player. But skill is lowered by lowering the speed of swings. It was fine before. Me and tons of people have killed thousands by feints, footwork holds all kinds of shit. I do hitslash if someone i'm fighting does it. And it's not even that good. I perfer getting behide someone and landing a headshot. all kinds of different shit
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Paul on January 04, 2012, 01:18:39 am
Fair poll. Congratulations.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: isatis on January 04, 2012, 01:23:27 am
use left swing?
oh you right !

hahahahahahaha :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: robert_namo on January 04, 2012, 01:29:58 am
Hiltslash is still in, depending on your angle on the player, it is an instant hit. To me I would be glad if they removed it because I was killed by people doing that to me and even though I gave them a challenge it is stupid that they can swing 2 times when I really should have a chance to swing back. I use a nodachi and speed doesn't really bother me.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on January 04, 2012, 01:53:52 am
And I say unto you GTFO!

L2P noobful nonces.

Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Cyber on January 04, 2012, 01:57:22 am
Have started to spend some more time on native again and it really has reminded me how easy duelling in cRPG is in some ways. Even the best feints with a 2h for a while unfortunately have been very easy to block. Lolstabbing and all that other stuff in native might be kind of silly but it actually gives you a chance to get past even the very best players block just by feinting. Most of the "highlevel" 2h players in cRPG would probably fall in seconds for top native players feints. Anyway don't meant to be too elitist but i just kind of dislike how useless it has become agains't good players,  duels mostly end now by kicks, reach, holds, chambers, spamming and feinting is almost unviable. I haven't even tryed playing yet after this nerf or whatever and don't even exactly know what it's about, im mainly a 1h myself, just seems kind of silly to me to be making blocking even easier. (atleast as i understood from the forum that this is what this patch in some way does :P)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Alexander_TheGreat_ on January 04, 2012, 02:05:55 am
buff,nerf,buff,nerf,buff,nerf. If you keep removing stuffs like lolstabs and hiltslash, is all this cRPG thing getting boring. cRPG is getting more and more like native. I bet that 2handers are getting tired of being nerfed. So if you really want to nerf something, u should try to go and nerf the backbedalling with the polearms and polestuns aswell. I can own with 1 wpf in polearm while backbedalling.

Buff 2handers, else me and phyrex is going polearm with 9 ath. :evil: :evil: :evil: (This is a threat)

Mod is once again alive and kicking!!!

lullululu while writing "mod-is-dead" it turns into Mod is once again alive and kicking!!! How low can u go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ox-lfowevqA
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: yedrellow on January 04, 2012, 04:46:34 am
I agree with the intentions behind this change, while few of you know me, I am considered the best , or near to, active blocker in the Australian community. People keep referencing 'good blockers' as people who take no issue with instant slashes. This is mildly true, but not for the reason you suspect. Above 60ish ping, the right swing insta-slashes certainly did (not sure if they still do) become near instant. Decent blockers are far more likely to drop a hit because of things like instant slashes, thud slashes or glitching through player models (latency induced) than any combination of feints and holds. Sure, a lower right swing speed makes it difficult, but decent players will adjust accordingly.

Clarification: People who are 'good blockers' generally try to move such that instant slashes are impossible on them in the first place
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: duurrr on January 04, 2012, 05:16:04 am
castoring needed to go, but this is a bad bandaid fix

im still amazed at how slow crpg is yet how you can castor... native is much faster and you cant castor there, still trying to figure how thats possible :? :?:s

its funny how cprg admins hate melee lol, everything to make the game easier by just making weapon speed in the game 90 instead of the 95+ it was before AND also removing agility weapon speed increase :lol:

now lets put a delay on the right swing, herp derp
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zisa on January 04, 2012, 05:40:49 am
If you can't land a hit on someone without your precious hiltslash or without abusing your weapon's range, seriously, L2P.

There's no player that won't drop for a good combination of feints and holds. Even Jaako. Even those IG perfect blocker freaks.
Without abusing your weapons range... err, like, using a longer weapon for precisely that reason? Or is length just for decoration now?

Feints? Yes, great, slow swings are going to make feinting somehow magically better? And somehow this is going to affect those perfect  blockers you refer to? Really? REALLY? Slowing my crappy swings is going to make it harder for Saul to block them? REALLY!

Fancy footwork now means you can dance out of trouble then pose while you die - but these people need to L2P - you really mean,they need to learn to stand like every other mother fucker and wait for the hit sound, then attack.

Since the whole 'hilt slash' term is used and misused, certainly means different things to everybody and the speed change does absofuckinglutely nothing to stop the root of the problem which is likely to be so hard coded it will never go away, just like funky pointy sticks and stabs that sweep through 90 degrees.

It is more deterimental then the earlier collision nonsense, considering you can put an overhead through an opponent only to not register due to silly collision detection with any slope over 1 degree, but certainly solved the problem of assholes attacking through walls, ya good job, 'fix' one thing and fuck up ten others. And it is YOU the fuckwads who go 'ya this is great! good job devs let me fondle you!' while the mod gets stuck with some shite, and I am the asshole for pointing out the unintended but inevitable consequences.

Now out for revenge we got people bitching about 1handers left swing, which I find fucking irritating but so what, oh wait, some of you fucktards wont be happy until all weapons may as well be 1 wpf, whiffle bat damage and have a great big fucking hugfest duel that takes 3 minutes until one combatant realises he should probably go take a shit.

Naturally given enough time there will be obvious other classes to nerf, if they have any sharp edges left, such as putting suction cups on arrows and bolts, making thrown weapons only sheep's bladders, and reducing horse speed to that of a particularily uncoordinated toddler. Horse bumps should be reduced to feather touches, not for realism, but balance, as there is already enough mindless sacs on top of the saddles we need to make them at least pretend to go through the motions of making an attack.

Then we'll realise we are playing "My Little Pony & Bat (rubberized)" the preschool version.

Go boil yer head.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Renten on January 04, 2012, 07:10:32 am
im still amazed at how slow crpg is yet how you can castor... native is much faster and you cant castor there, still trying to figure how thats possible :? :?:s


Earlier active attacks is probably the reason for it.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zerran on January 04, 2012, 07:33:06 am
(click to show/hide)

This post made my day. +1

I really don't get what all the complaining about good maneuvering and double swinging is about. Sure, polestagger gets annoying if they can hit so fast it's not physically possible to block between hits, but other than that i see no problems. It's like people want to just get rid of agi in the first place and have everyone just stand still while fighting.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Xant on January 04, 2012, 08:43:11 am
Buff 2handers, else me and phyrex is going polearm with 9 ath. :evil: :evil: :evil: (This is a threat)

nobody cares whatchu do phase
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Vibe on January 04, 2012, 08:46:56 am
If you can't land a hit on someone without your precious hiltslash or without abusing your weapon's range, seriously, L2P.

There's no player that won't drop for a good combination of feints and holds. Even Jaako. Even those IG perfect blocker freaks.

Wrong on so many levels
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 08:53:19 am
I can't believe so many bad players are saying keep it like this. This is sad... there should be a skill meter before they can post
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Christo on January 04, 2012, 09:11:33 am
I can't believe so many bad players are saying keep it like this. This is sad... there should be a skill meter before they can post

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: obitus on January 04, 2012, 09:16:43 am
most people probably have shitloads of input lag on their LCD monitors to boot.

anyway this is probably a good change since it keeps players who use autoblock hacks (like DRiainRex pictured below) from being too godlike

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/214/2011111000001.jpg/)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Xant on January 04, 2012, 09:18:53 am
Wrong on so many levels

Yep...
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zerran on January 04, 2012, 10:25:03 am
(click to show/hide)

I hope you realize that calling a shield an "autoblock hack" is a fairly common joke...
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zaren on January 04, 2012, 10:26:43 am
Well until right swing is fixed I'm going archer.... hilt slash is what a 2h does its like a 1hs left swing.... its perfectly fair and ok and its stupid to remove it
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Inkompetent on January 04, 2012, 11:17:15 am
Voting to keep new system, because of rage-poll.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 04, 2012, 11:29:54 am
If you can't land a hit on someone without your precious hiltslash or without abusing your weapon's range, seriously, L2P.

There's no player that won't drop for a good combination of feints and holds. Even Jaako. Even those IG perfect blocker freaks.

Try duelling Urist, then come back and say that.

I actually had no problems with the hiltslash itself, it just needed to be made harder, since I was noticing some "good" duelists were only using the hiltslash in their duels. Hiltslashing is still possible, me and Phyrex were testing it yesterday on the duel server, but you now need to use actual footwork to do it. This is a good change because hiltslashing in it's prepatch form was far too easy for anyone to perform. Now you can't just backpedal and sideswing like a nub, you actually need to come at the enemy and sidestep. This gives the other duellist a chance to anticipate you and get their swing in first.

Off topic: I do believe melee is too slow now, but giving cheap easy to perform moves is not the way to make it harder. I do struggle to get past some peoples blocks now, but that's why I learned kickslashing. Many still fail to the floor feints, but I do think melee speeds could do with a slight increase across the board. The problem with this is that higher ping players will get screwed over, and chadz doesn't want this mod to become inaccessible  to those people, which I see the logic in doing so.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2012, 11:44:51 am
Do higher ping players get screwed over in Native?
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Christo on January 04, 2012, 11:46:29 am
Do higher ping players get screwed over in Native?

Compared to cRPG?

Yes. Absolutely.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Vibe on January 04, 2012, 12:31:26 pm
Do higher ping players get screwed over in Native?

They do more than in cRPG.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: EyeBeat on January 04, 2012, 12:57:17 pm
Without abusing your weapons range... err, like, using a longer weapon for precisely that reason? Or is length just for decoration now?

Feints? Yes, great, slow swings are going to make feinting somehow magically better? And somehow this is going to affect those perfect  blockers you refer to? Really? REALLY? Slowing my crappy swings is going to make it harder for Saul to block them? REALLY!

Fancy footwork now means you can dance out of trouble then pose while you die - but these people need to L2P - you really mean,they need to learn to stand like every other mother fucker and wait for the hit sound, then attack.

Since the whole 'hilt slash' term is used and misused, certainly means different things to everybody and the speed change does absofuckinglutely nothing to stop the root of the problem which is likely to be so hard coded it will never go away, just like funky pointy sticks and stabs that sweep through 90 degrees.

It is more deterimental then the earlier collision nonsense, considering you can put an overhead through an opponent only to not register due to silly collision detection with any slope over 1 degree, but certainly solved the problem of assholes attacking through walls, ya good job, 'fix' one thing and fuck up ten others. And it is YOU the fuckwads who go 'ya this is great! good job devs let me fondle you!' while the mod gets stuck with some shite, and I am the asshole for pointing out the unintended but inevitable consequences.

Now out for revenge we got people bitching about 1handers left swing, which I find fucking irritating but so what, oh wait, some of you fucktards wont be happy until all weapons may as well be 1 wpf, whiffle bat damage and have a great big fucking hugfest duel that takes 3 minutes until one combatant realises he should probably go take a shit.

Naturally given enough time there will be obvious other classes to nerf, if they have any sharp edges left, such as putting suction cups on arrows and bolts, making thrown weapons only sheep's bladders, and reducing horse speed to that of a particularily uncoordinated toddler. Horse bumps should be reduced to feather touches, not for realism, but balance, as there is already enough mindless sacs on top of the saddles we need to make them at least pretend to go through the motions of making an attack.

Then we'll realise we are playing "My Little Pony & Bat (rubberized)" the preschool version.

Go boil yer head.

Conform or stop playing.  Congratz 2h has a slow right hand swing just like 1h.  Deal with it.  Your tears are funny though.  Doesn't bother me much since you were never much of a threat when hiltslashing was still in.

BTW the 1h left swing covers less ground than the right but it is faster and hits the head.  That is the trade off.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Candiru on January 04, 2012, 01:33:07 pm
Speed does make the game a hell of a lot more interesting. Been playing on native aswell xP
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Candiru on January 04, 2012, 01:34:43 pm
Try duelling Urist, then come back and say that.


I second that.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 04, 2012, 01:35:46 pm
In all honesty I go back to native most of the time I want to just play duel, the melee combat is much more interesting. The factors for preferring native is that it is rare you mean someone who only backpedals (backpedalling needs a major fix for cRPG), the weapons are faster, and people use different duel tactics due to the speed difference.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Leshma on January 04, 2012, 03:45:17 pm
Wrong on so many levels

Actually it's very possible but takes time, so much precious time...

After all hiltslash was shortcut move, so you can fight other people on your quest for glory which is killing 10 and more enemies in one round :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: woody on January 04, 2012, 03:54:49 pm
Am I missing something or is this an anti spam and attempt to even out connections measure?

Does it increase overall skill if someone is unable to spam the crap out of someone with a slow/slowish connection? I found versus real speed merchants who swing properly 1H scim and 2h miaodao sometimes you dont even see whats hit you until after it has, no matter how good you think you are you cant block that.

The only skill difference is reaction speed (other than hiltslash, maybe two issues should be seperated?), which is not skill as such and is pretty dependent on your connection.  On highest speed/skill setting versus bots on my own computer I can block nearly all the time and I imagine most average players like me can too. If we were all via lan then fastest speed possible would be great but we're not.

I thought most people derided spam and feint spam and is it really skill to feint blitz someone who cant react/has artificially reduced reaction time due to connection?
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Vibe on January 04, 2012, 04:06:52 pm
Actually it's very possible but takes time, so much precious time...

After all hiltslash was shortcut move, so you can fight other people on your quest for glory which is killing 10 and more enemies in one round :mrgreen:

The only way a good player fails to any kind of feint or hold is because he got fucking bored with the duel and starts spamming and attacking recklessly.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 04, 2012, 05:17:57 pm
I don't mind most changes the dev's have made, I just wish they would stop nerfing and buffing shit.  Answer me this, is there anything that overpowered in the game, that there is no natural counter to it?  Is there any class or "niche" that is that pointless it needs a massive buff?

I didn't think so either...so leave well enough alone :P
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zisa on January 04, 2012, 05:31:35 pm
Conform or stop playing.  Congratz 2h has a slow right hand swing just like 1h.  Deal with it.  Your tears are funny though.  Doesn't bother me much since you were never much of a threat when hiltslashing was still in.

BTW the 1h left swing covers less ground than the right but it is faster and hits the head.  That is the trade off.
You can blow it out yer ass, I have lots of fond memories of slicing through your head with my dumb ass slow weapon. And there is no point getting the great axe out for such a ninny as yourself.

BTW I know thanks for sharing, but a trade off? hardly. Should have lobbied for a faster 1 hand right sewing not nerf every fucking thing else, but keep telling yerself yer a smart guy there smart guy. Oh and stay behind that Huscarl shield of yours.

Without a shield 1 hand block left or right looks fucking stupid leaning to the side, but rather then fix that turd let's make every other melee lean to the side too.

Also, your name is offensive, you are one of those misogynist I keep hearing about yet you get away with it. I guess that's maturity for ya. If I haven't mentioned it before, fuck you ya goof!

I do not have to fucking deal with it. I'll play one hander, thrower or cavalry. Which means I will get bored sooner rather then later and find something else to play.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Tydeus on January 04, 2012, 05:46:01 pm
The only skill difference is reaction speed (other than hiltslash, maybe two issues should be seperated?), which is not skill as such and is pretty dependent on your connection.  On highest speed/skill setting versus bots on my own computer I can block nearly all the time and I imagine most average players like me can too. If we were all via lan then fastest speed possible would be great but we're not.
Footwork and proper positioning will give you extra time to react and block and without a doubt, that is skill. Up until about 120 ping (personal opinion on this number) you can do perfectly fine with a long weapon if you aren't face-hugging. The biggest issue with ping, isn't really getting your block up in time, it's positioning for a target that you cannot see, which is much easier done when you're 4+ feet from your opponent.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Ohayashi on January 04, 2012, 06:20:17 pm
Also, your name is offensive, you are one of those misogynist I keep hearing about yet you get away with it.

"Gets away with it"?

There's nothing illegal about chauvinism. You have the right to be offended and he has the right to offend you. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 04, 2012, 06:28:37 pm
Footwork and proper positioning will give you extra time to react and block and without a doubt, that is skill. Up until about 120 ping (personal opinion on this number) you can do perfectly fine with a long weapon if you aren't face-hugging. The biggest issue with ping, isn't really getting your block up in time, it's positioning for a target that you cannot see, which is much easier done when you're 4+ feet from your opponent.

I noticed when I play on the EU servers with about 150 ping it's almost impossible to block (with a shield or manually), if the person is just pulling back their swing you better start blocking or you won't get it up in time.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 08:00:06 pm
I'm starting to think that MANY people that play CRPG needed to play native first. The lack of skill in this MOD for the game Mount and Blade is ridiculous. This is a Mod to M&B play it first and get good.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Remy on January 04, 2012, 08:22:59 pm
Mayhaps it is just me, but I find the average Warband player as good or as bad as the average cRPG player.

Naturally, both the game and this mod have some distinct differences but in general I find the transition to be quite negligible.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 08:26:55 pm
People that played native first or play both tend to be better. Its faster combat speed. faster reflexes therefor. When you come over to Crpg it's slow and easy compared to Native. Esp Native duels where many monsters hang out.

Better blockers better feinters better overall for the most part. And if More people played native first a lot more people would be voting yes to changing it back to fast and Not keeping it slow.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Dezilagel on January 04, 2012, 08:28:54 pm
People that played native first or play both tend to be better. Its faster combat speed. faster reflexes therefor. When you come over to Crpg it's slow and easy compared to Native. Esp Native duels where many monsters hang out.

Better blockers better feinters better overall for the most part. And if More people played native first a lot more people would be voting yes to changing it back to fast and Not keeping it slow.

I've played both native and c-rpg and while there are some incredibly skilled people in native as well, the overall impression I get is that the average skill there is way lower.

When I go to a c-rpg battle server, almost anyone can block a few swings at least - that's not been the case in native. Maybe I've just been on the wrong servers but whatever.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 08:33:29 pm
I've played both native and c-rpg and while there are some incredibly skilled people in native as well, the overall impression I get is that the average skill there is way lower.

When I go to a c-rpg battle server, almost anyone can block a few swings at least - that's not been the case in native. Maybe I've just been on the wrong servers but whatever.

Maybe because they attack slower and it's easier to block? Try the duel servors. Or fight ppl with names like clan names etc. What i say About the speed holds true and if most people start on native they'll get better and be better then just jumping into crpg. I played native for like 3 months plus then when i went to crpg ohh look day 1 i'm a monster. Its easy slower is easier can't argue this
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 04, 2012, 08:36:23 pm
Maybe because they attack slower and it's easier to block? Try the duel servors. Or fight ppl with names like clan names etc. What i say About the speed holds true and if most people start on native they'll get better and be better then just jumping into crpg. I played native for like 3 months plus then when i went to crpg ohh look day 1 i'm a monster. Its easy slower is easier can't argue this

The only NA battle server people play on is the POM server, which has the melee speed set to "fastest".  c-rpg (and most other native servers) have the melee speed set to normal or medium. 

If you have the speed set to normal (which it is for c-rpg) it still allows people from europe or with 150 ping to block.  It's really hard for them to block, but it gives them a chance.  if speed is set to fastest like on the POM battle server, people with higher than 70 or 80 ping really have no chance versus good players who have 20 ping.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Dezilagel on January 04, 2012, 08:39:01 pm
Maybe because they attack slower and it's easier to block? Try the duel servors. Or fight ppl with names like clan names etc. What i say About the speed holds true and if most people start on native they'll get better and be better then just jumping into crpg. I played native for like 3 months plus then when i went to crpg ohh look day 1 i'm a monster. Its easy slower is easier can't argue this

22-1 on the Native duel servers and 3 clan invites. So quit that crap.

I'm a tried and true c-rpg player yes, but I'm really getting tired of this "Native iz da bestest hurr-durr" shit. Different mod - different game. While I can agree that something needs to be done to accommodate for the increase in player skill, looking at native seems like a very bad idea with it's fucked up archers/cav and pole/2h balance.


Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Leshma on January 04, 2012, 08:46:51 pm
I noticed when I play on the EU servers with about 150 ping it's almost impossible to block (with a shield or manually), if the person is just pulling back their swing you better start blocking or you won't get it up in time.

I used to play on NA servers a bit with 155 average ping. It wasn't that bad, when I wasn't lagging of course (my ISP is crap).

It's not impossible to block, you have to anticipate opponents moves a bit but it's fair from unplayable. I was able to kill some of the best players you have there, some of them using warspears...

Most good blockers block way before the hit get's to them, only those lazy bastards with 10-15 ping have issues when suddenly average ping on server goes up by 30-40 ping.

What I want to say is that blocking with sub 40 ping (I had 35 ping for few days) is piss easy and players with low pings shouldn't consider themselves great blockers.

And I'm not supporter of idea that skill means twitch reflex. Every asian kid has that, skill should be based on fast and creative thinking, not "muscle" memory. Sadly, in most online games there is limited number of tricks and after some time almost everyone gets on the same level and things become boring as hell. When I first started "dancing" versus multiple opponents (before they implemented earlier active attacks) I was able to kill 4 or 5 decent fighters just because they weren't used to my style and didn't know what to do in such situations. Right now, I'm pretty sure those silly feints and switching opponents won't help me and that first guy in that group would kill me with no problem.

Tricks are running out and one of them has just been successfully neutralized (although I don't consider hiltslash to be "smart" trick). Most of us play as 2H because it was the most complex combat style in Warband. Making it simple will just steer away people from that class and most likely will make them stop playing the mod.

Some people don't play just to have good scores (cavalry), some of us don't like easy mode (ranged), some of us value manual block, that's why we play as 2H. Most high quality 2H players during the old c-rpg enjoyed the game even when we were worthless peasants and practiced a lot to become good. People who don't understand that will never become the true (2H) warriors.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: woody on January 04, 2012, 08:49:59 pm
Playing native, especially IG trainings, the skill levels of the good IG guys are very high (Willy, Wezyk, Sophie, Cristo etc). Not sure these guys play CRPG more than very occasionally, IG decided against CRPG/Strategus participation other than as individuals.

I find ping is not the whole story re lag - sometimes at 4-6 GMT incredibly laggy even if supposedly a 55 ping (fps 0-5 at times). After about 9pm find far less lag even if ping supposedly the same. Maybe its just my provider?

Of course high ping will definitely lag.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 08:51:40 pm
22-1 on the Native duel servers and 3 clan invites. So quit that crap.

I'm a tried and true c-rpg player yes, but I'm really getting tired of this "Native iz da bestest hurr-durr" shit. Different mod - different game. While I can agree that something needs to be done to accommodate for the increase in player skill, looking at native seems like a very bad idea with it's fucked up archers/cav and pole/2h balance.

It's a mod of the game M&B which is a lot slower thats about it. And your 22-1 doesn't mean anything 1 time when who know's who you fought, who was there etc etc... So you quit it. Native is A lot faster then slow ass crpg which is even slower now then it was. Meaning it's harder. Fact is that's the game to play for skill more then crpg. And if you went at a different time or multiple times like i do or others you'd find a lot of very good people there. You prolly were killing noobs. And usually the rules are no armor for native not the pansy crap on crpg.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 04, 2012, 09:00:52 pm
I would say native has some skillful players, but the duel is very rarely filled with good players. The only guy I have actually had some fun with is RNGD_Tobi who is an old apprentice of Phyrex. Native is still more fun though.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: BootyBuster on January 04, 2012, 09:20:43 pm
Back to the point.

No need for slowing the game down then it already is. Vote to change it back
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: EyeBeat on January 04, 2012, 09:43:06 pm
In my experience Native is full of people that have superiority complexes.  When they come to CRPG and get facerolled they head back to Native.  IE: Rhade.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Osiris on January 04, 2012, 09:55:12 pm
ive been on native and native duels a lot (nditions) and i find them to be pretty much the same. you play a few rounds on native and get used to the speen then its pretty much the same. only thing that can catch you out is not expecting things (like baboo spear sideswing) One thing that concerns me with native duels is that some people seem to use macros. they feint more often and faster then looks humanly possible and do it exactly the same each time. might just be me tho :P  *edit there is a reason we play crpg :D we like it! if you dont go back to native*
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 04, 2012, 10:21:08 pm
ive been on native and native duels a lot (nditions) and i find them to be pretty much the same. you play a few rounds on native and get used to the speen then its pretty much the same. only thing that can catch you out is not expecting things (like baboo spear sideswing) One thing that concerns me with native duels is that some people seem to use macros. they feint more often and faster then looks humanly possible and do it exactly the same each time. might just be me tho :P  *edit there is a reason we play crpg :D we like it! if you dont go back to native*

A few people do use macro feints, Phyrex tells me Tobi uses macros which is quite obvious from his feints. I do play cRPG overall because it's a good mod and has very good overall class balance, but for melee there is no rival I have yet found to the fast and furious native duels.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Osiris on January 04, 2012, 10:23:58 pm
i enjoy native duels but i find crpg ones far tougher. on crpg your slower and you do less damage so it takes more then just one slip up to kill someone :P that and crpg doesnt have uber lolstab but i find both enjoyable but i cant play native for hours i get bored (for chamber training i use nditions) (for battle training i use crpg because im heavier, people are harder to kill and i wont think im fast :D)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Konrax on January 04, 2012, 10:30:01 pm
Maybe since they slowed "things" down a bit, we can address the wpf curve and make WM a more valuable asset?
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 04, 2012, 10:45:30 pm
i enjoy native duels but i find crpg ones far tougher. on crpg your slower and you do less damage so it takes more then just one slip up to kill someone :P that and crpg doesnt have uber lolstab but i find both enjoyable but i cant play native for hours i get bored (for chamber training i use nditions) (for battle training i use crpg because im heavier, people are harder to kill and i wont think im fast :D)

I find cRPG duels much harder too, but it's mainly because I have to do some incredibly risky stuff to get past their block, I just don't like them. A lot of people will just backpedal all the time and I get bored following and start to spam, or even worse I can't even keep up because I am a low level. If people don't backwalk the duel is much more fun however, since I can kickslash and feint a lot more. However native is more fun because my manual blocking is actually tested and the fights are much more furious, the native stab is not too bad once you get used to it either.

Maybe since they slowed "things" down a bit, we can address the wpf curve and make WM a more valuable asset?

This I would like,
do it noaw!
do it noaw!
do it noaw!
Thanks Phase for telling me how to do magic! :)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: cmp on January 04, 2012, 10:49:48 pm
Maybe since they slowed "things" down a bit, we can address the wpf curve and make WM a more valuable asset?

This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 04, 2012, 11:08:05 pm
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.

+1 !

Got spammed to death today by lots of damn strengthwhores with big heavy poleaxes... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Cup1d on January 04, 2012, 11:11:43 pm
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.

Great news.

So, we will have possibility to redistribute our wpf points? Or how this will work?
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Rebelyell on January 04, 2012, 11:19:21 pm
yea i like to see it
but if still agi whores will make biger damange than my str bulid i will rage like crazy mutherducker(anyway no ones care)
its really annoying, they can spame you and still make big damage coz of fucking speed bonus
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on January 04, 2012, 11:22:56 pm
yea i like to see it
but if still agi whores will make biger damange than my str bulid i will rage like crazy mutherducker(anyway no ones care)
its really annoying, they can spame you and still make big damage coz of fucking speed bonus

I reckon they would somehow balance it that maybe the damage done by ps is reduced or whatever.

Btw Cmp, don't forget to balance that strength/agi stuff also for archers, otherwise the community will rage and whine again^^
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Dezilagel on January 04, 2012, 11:25:51 pm
+1 !

Got spammed to death today by lots of damn strengthwhores with big heavy poleaxes... :rolleyes:

l2p
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on January 04, 2012, 11:41:05 pm
Two handed players.....whining?

How...I....what?!! But that NEVER happens.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Teeth on January 04, 2012, 11:45:20 pm
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.
Gash finally, I have been screaming for this for ages. Flatten the wpf curve (and increase overall wpf) already.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: robert_namo on January 04, 2012, 11:49:03 pm
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.

remove polestun and try to fix that thrust through objects glitch as well then I would be excited to play again.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on January 05, 2012, 12:50:43 am
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.

do it cmpx!  i wouldnt mind being faster  !   175 in 1h with 8 weaponmaster is awful :\
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Zerran on January 05, 2012, 01:02:14 am
This is something that I'd like to do. Ideally it would result in STR oriented builds getting slower, balanced build getting slightly faster, and AGI oriented builds getting faster.

yes!!! Strength builds whining about people with high agi is something I just don't understand. Sure, high agi means faster and possibly can get more hits in, but compare how many times an agi build will need to hit a strength build. I'm 15-24 generally using lamellar and most strength based players can 2 shot me, while I have to hit them 4-5 times. Now, I've got no problem with that since I can dance around them, but it would be nice to see high level weaponmaster actually do something. I seem to strike only very marginally faster than a strength build even with 8 weaponmaster.

A buff to really balanced builds would also be nice to see. As far as I can tell people who really go balanced (18-18/21-18/18-21) tend to not do as well do to the lack of any specific strength (not really faster than a high strength build, and not significantly more damage than an agi build)
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Ufthak on January 05, 2012, 01:04:05 am
remove polestun and try to fix that thrust through objects glitch as well then I would be excited to play again.

Also when you do that, fix two hander reach so that the longsword thrust isn't the same reach as the ashwood pike still, or just make polearm animations not suck. Perfect solution would be to give halfsworded thrusts to all two handers.

That wouldn't address the inferiority of the other polearm animations, but it'd fix the biggest one.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: SquishMitten on January 05, 2012, 02:33:53 am
Perfect solution would be to give halfsworded thrusts to all two handers.


lolstab is silly, this

visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: robert_namo on January 05, 2012, 02:46:01 am
Also when you do that, fix two hander reach so that the longsword thrust isn't the same reach as the ashwood pike still, or just make polearm animations not suck. Perfect solution would be to give halfsworded thrusts to all two handers.

That wouldn't address the inferiority of the other polearm animations, but it'd fix the biggest one.

yeah that 2h thrust as well as polearm thrust is still confusing when clearly it shouldn't poke you for full damage when the point of the weapon passed by a mile. 2h thrust is annoying as hell to counter because sometimes the thrust hits the air and they move towards you and the thrust can still damage you.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Xant on January 05, 2012, 03:45:13 am
A few people do use macro feints, Phyrex tells me Tobi uses macros which is quite obvious from his feints. I do play cRPG overall because it's a good mod and has very good overall class balance, but for melee there is no rival I have yet found to the fast and furious native duels.

Doesn't really matter though, just gotta focus a bit to block him. And macros are shit, easy way to get free kills on people using them is just to spam when you see them going for a feint combo.
Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Cyber on January 05, 2012, 10:50:10 am
Since i see so many arguing about native and cRPG skill difference, thought i write my point of view about it. Average cRPG player is more skilled then native player. Simple reason for that is that if you play cRPG you probably need to invest more time on the game for levelling up and while doing that you will become atleast a little bit better. Casual native player probably dosen't spend nearly as much time on the game as a casual cRPG player does. Also most likely when your just starting you probably play native first for atleast a bit before looking for mods. This is probably why many ppl who just visit native for a while find killing most people really easy and consider native to be less skilled.

Best players in native however are more skilled then in cRPG. Since there is no levelling system in native, even though that might cause a lot of people not to play as much, those who are deticated and have played for some time have really focused just on improving instead of grinding. Everybody has the same characters and levels, so you are never able to rely just on your level and equipment, but purely on skill. Native has also has had a lot more competetive game scene since the beginning. Many more clan fights, team and individual tournaments which once again gives the community a chance to test themselves agains't good players and a incentive to improve. In some servers there have been and i think still are daily tournaments. All the nerfs in cRPG have also made fighing considerably easier compared to native.

Title: Re: Patch That ruined skill in game/weapons
Post by: Frankysan on January 06, 2012, 05:32:41 pm
Same as before, but taken down for no reason.

Weapons patch making the game easier for casual gamers instead of having them get better and more skilled

Lowering the speed of right swings changing crap in the game and watering it down. Skill based game turning into funfun easy mode for noobies. You wanna get good? Practice play thats how you get good. Not nerfing the weapon speeds and shit
i saw just few equally retarded posts i'm amused