cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: El_Infante on December 15, 2011, 04:41:16 pm

Title: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: El_Infante on December 15, 2011, 04:41:16 pm
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 (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/36/bowsm.jpg/)

I will modify the previous post to give reasons why longbow need a buff.

All of we remember that at time that bodkin changed damage type of the bows, Long bow had an unique ability. It did pierce damage. After that patch, long bow got no buff. That is the first reason. Bodkin changed archery at all. After that "little change" it was out of the game. Now, every archer can use bodkin arrows.

My suggestion of fixes:
- A 1.80m bow can't have the same missile speed (only +1) from shorter Hornbow or Rusbow. LB doubles the size than horn&tatar. Solution? Buff it or nerf the others.
- (-8) speed from rus bow is nerfing it to the ground. Maybe with a +3 or +4 speed fix, it will be ok.
- Changes on how Power Draw works, but there is another post talking about it.
- Accuracy.
- The ability to hold reticule closed more than the other bows. (It was discussed by ptx on "finding a niche for longbow" post).


Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: gazda on December 15, 2011, 04:44:53 pm
i think 54 would do fine
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Lennu on December 15, 2011, 04:53:02 pm
You're only looking at the weakness of the long bow.
Don't forget that is has highest damage and that the arrows it shoots are lika lazerbeam. Maybe improving one of the good sides of the longbow even further, instead of just making faster would keep it separate from the other bows and still usefull. More missile speed, More accuracy or more damage isntead of just improving the speed.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: El_Infante on December 15, 2011, 04:59:15 pm
You're only looking at the weakness of the long bow.
Don't forget that is has highest damage and that the arrows it shoots are lika lazerbeam. Maybe improving one of the good sides of the longbow even further, instead of just making faster would keep it separate from the other bows and still usefull. More missile speed, More accuracy or more damage isntead of just improving the speed.

Damage proggression:
Short bow: 16
Bow: 18 (+2)
Nomad Bow: 20(+2)
Tatar Bow: 22(+2)
Horn Bow: 24(+2)
Yumi: 26(+2)
Rus Bow: 28(+2)
Long Bow: 31(+3)

As you can see it's the same proggresion as speed. Missile proggresion is 0 - 0 +1 +1 +2 -4 +1 +1. Missile speed is only +1 from horn bow, and I doubt so much if it is noticeable. Arbalest have around 60 missile speed (edit) so... you can't compare these things.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: B3RS3RK on December 15, 2011, 05:24:00 pm
Yes, give it 54 speed plox
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Old_Sir_Agor on December 15, 2011, 05:28:25 pm
Arbalest have around 80 missile speed so... you can't compare these things.


mw arbalest has 62 missle speed lol) 80 will be cool ofc 8-)
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: illogical on December 15, 2011, 05:30:57 pm
need balance in bows. my logic
yumi - specific, good damage, but low speed arrow - sucess
horn - low damage, but fast - sucess
rus - balanced specifics - sucess
long - slow, but large damage - failed (need +damage)
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Jarlek on December 16, 2011, 12:45:57 am
You are looking at this the wrong way. It's not the longbow that should be increased with 4 speed to get in line with the others. It's the other bows that should get reduced 4 speed to get in line with the longbow :P
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Tydeus on December 16, 2011, 01:19:56 am
Tatar Bow-> Horn bow: 2 damage for 5 speed
Rus Bow-> Long Bow: 3 damage for 8 speed

Looks in line with the other bows to me.

Rus Bow is the Tatar Bow of 2s bows, Long Bow is the Horn Bow of 2s bows. It's not that the bows aren't balanced, because they definitely are.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: El_Infante on December 16, 2011, 03:29:01 am
Tatar Bow-> Horn bow: 2 damage for 5 speed
Rus Bow-> Long Bow: 3 damage for 8 speed

Looks in line with the other bows to me.

Rus Bow is the Tatar Bow of 2s bows, Long Bow is the Horn Bow of 2s bows. It's not that the bows aren't balanced, because they definitely are.

Yes you're right. Long bow is balanced in that way that no one uses it today. This is a topic for discuss if longbow is balanced compared to the another bows, and now, it isn't. So there are two ways to fix it. Nerfing all the bows or buffing Long bow. Why all the archers are using horn bow? Why only few archers use Rus Bow? Why no one use Long Bow? The top-tier bow need to have something that invite players to use it. Now it's useless. +3 Dmg for -8 speed is a SCAM.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Tydeus on December 16, 2011, 04:13:58 am
Yes you're right. Long bow is balanced in that way that no one uses it today. This is a topic for discuss if longbow is balanced compared to the another bows, and now, it isn't. So there are two ways to fix it. Nerfing all the bows or buffing Long bow. Why all the archers are using horn bow? Why only few archers use Rus Bow? Why no one use Long Bow? The top-tier bow need to have something that invite players to use it. Now it's useless. +3 Dmg for -8 speed is a SCAM.
No, I think I just covered why the bow is balanced. Balanced does not mean equally practical. Longbows aren't practical bows, they're specialized bows. Rus bow and Horn bow are practical because they don't specialize in one particular thing. You could say that the Horn Bow specializes in speed, but I'd disagree at least in that you can go with the Tatar for +5 speed and only lose 2 damage, yet not many people really use the Tatar, why is that?

Explain to me, since this is the discussion section of the forums, why the Horn Bow is vastly more popular than the Tatar? If you choose the Horn Bow you gain 2 damage for 5 speed. Whereas, if you decide to go with a two slot bow, you could chose the Long Bow over the Rus, which gives you 3 damage for 8 speed. 1 damage per 2.5 speed compared to 1 damage per 2.667 speed. So the same ratio that makes people chose the Horn Bow over the Tatar is somehow not enough to make someone choose the Long Bow over the Rus. Gee... I guess the Long Bow is underpowered!

It's unused, not because it isn't balanced, but because the horn bow is the best 1s bow(Yumi is a HA bow, the missile speed makes it much less good for mid-long range shots) so the 1s bow guys use the horn bow, makes sense. As a 2s bow guy, if you chose the Long Bow, fast shooters like Horn Bow guys, are going to be impossible for you to fight against, unless you have cover. If you go with the Rus, fighting a Horn Bow user is a bit of a pain without cover, but it's still easily doable given they don't have too much more wpf than you.

So I'm not really seeing what the issue is, aside from that: You should be very careful when judging how good something is, by how often it is used.

Edit: Or maybe it's that this community is retarded and speed is so important that we should actually be seeing more Tatar Bows, because they're the truly OP bows?
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: marco1391 on December 17, 2011, 01:25:23 am
Imo archers are pretty up in the current state of crpg(different speech for strategus ofc)
I'd add 1 more damage to the longbow if it was for me(the longbow users got a -2 nerf on pierce or a -1 nerf on cut by the last patch so it would at least give them something back)
reguarding speed I wouldn't touch it, it's what makes the feeling very different between the two 2 slot bows, and that's a good thing from my point of view
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: El_Infante on December 17, 2011, 11:04:48 am
Imo archers are pretty up in the current state of crpg(different speech for strategus ofc)
I'd add 1 more damage to the longbow if it was for me(the longbow users got a -2 nerf on pierce or a -1 nerf on cut by the last patch so it would at least give them something back)
reguarding speed I wouldn't touch it, it's what makes the feeling very different between the two 2 slot bows, and that's a good thing from my point of view

I agree. At this moment, losing 8 speed for +3 damage don't compensate to choose Long Bow instead of Rus Bow.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on December 17, 2011, 07:01:05 pm
i think 54 would do fine

Don't think 54 is necessary. Give it 52 or 53 to test it out, I think it would be pleasing. There is no need to get it as fast as the other bows, but atm it's really a bit too slow.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: _Tak_ on February 10, 2012, 02:59:57 pm
bump
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Rumblood on February 10, 2012, 10:23:47 pm
Yes you're right. Long bow is balanced in that way that no one uses it today. This is a topic for discuss if longbow is balanced compared to the another bows, and now, it isn't. So there are two ways to fix it. Nerfing all the bows or buffing Long bow. Why all the archers are using horn bow? Why only few archers use Rus Bow? Why no one use Long Bow? The top-tier bow need to have something that invite players to use it. Now it's useless. +3 Dmg for -8 speed is a SCAM.

You are wrong.

Bows are balanced against each other.

Are there situations where a Horn bow will perform no better than a Tatar? Absolutely.
Are there situations where a Long bow will perform no better than a Rus? Absolutely.

If the enemy has 1 hp less than a tatar will do, then the horn bow was useless! But if the enemy has 1 hp more than a tatar will do, then that horn bow showed what it was there to do.

Same thing with the Rus and Long Bow. Yes, many times a Rus will finish off the enemy and you will wish you had its faster firing speed. But then sometimes they have more health and the Long Bow shines with the one hit kill. Had you shot with a Rus, they would have laughed and bashed your head in.

The Long Bow should not be adjusted to be more like the other bows. It should be a slow, hard hitting cannon. If there is any adjustment to be made, it should be in the form of a +1 damage to normal Long Bow and +2 for MW Long Bow on top of the existing bonuses.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: El_Infante on February 10, 2012, 10:58:36 pm
I disagree.

When the patch of giving bodkins pierce damage, came out, longbow was no buffed. So it was a longbow nerf. Are you a archer? Rus bow is far better than long bow. Speed progression is not linear. A horn bow can shoot two arrows for each longbow shoot. So, longbow is not balanced and need some love.

How? Giving:
- Speed.
- Missile speed. (Ridiculous +1 from horn bow. Tell me how a 1.80m bow can have the same missile speed than a 0.80m one)
- Accuracy.
- Ability to hold the reticule closed more than other bows.

I'm a rus bow user and I won't play longbow anymore until it's fixed. I'm bored of non-archers opinion. They just can't talk about they don't know.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on February 10, 2012, 11:13:43 pm
I want to see my archer alt Ffrank_Welshy_at_arms using his Long Bow to canon fuck mine enemy!

It should be slow, very slow. But it should hit like a canyonero I say +1 or 3 dmg and +2 or 3 missle speed. Its acurate enough and a missle speed boost should make it a bit more accurate anyway, less drop and all that.
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: Rumblood on February 10, 2012, 11:58:54 pm
A horn bow can shoot two arrows for each longbow shoot. So, longbow is not balanced and need some love.

How? Giving:
- Speed.
- Missile speed. (Ridiculous +1 from horn bow. Tell me how a 1.80m bow can have the same missile speed than a 0.80m one)
- Accuracy.
- Ability to hold the reticule closed more than other bows.

I'm a rus bow user and I won't play longbow anymore until it's fixed. I'm bored of non-archers opinion. They just can't talk about they don't know.

Wrong. The Horn bow can't get two off against a Long bow. You have to use the Tatar and that is only if you hit with the first arrow for the stun.

Speed - No. We have other bows for speed. This is the Power bow.

Missile Speed - No. The arrows already fly almost too fast for melee to have a valid chance at avoiding them within 100 feet. Make them faster and 2 handers would have no chance. The nerf to athletics acceleration that was put in to buff cavalry because they kept crying about infantry dodging them would be even more pronounced against a faster missile speed. This is too bad because missile speed increases accuracy. If missile speed were to be adjusted, I would reduce the missile speed of the other bows and keep the Long Bow the fastest possible with balance against infantry.

Accuracy - Perhaps a slight increase in accuracy, but mostly No. It still draws too fast to be hyper accurate at short range. If they increased the draw time (yes I said it), then they could add laser point accuracy to it. Otherwise, no.

Ability to hold the reticule closed - I don't see why not. The reticule time used to be WAY short. Now it is longer, but guess what? I haven't noticed because I got used to shooting within half a second of the reticule closing. In other words, this change wouldnt affect my shots. It might make duels against xbower's more viable though.

Power - This is where the Long Bow should shine. Buff the damage to where it 1 shots Any horse that isn't armored. Then we will have a Long Bow worth using.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: _Tak_ on February 11, 2012, 12:21:09 am
Long bow need to buff its speed by 1 - 5. or lower all other bow speed or add more damage to longbow. problem solved
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Arrowblood on February 11, 2012, 05:57:15 pm
+2 dmg and and 5k more expensive.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Tennenoth on February 11, 2012, 06:23:23 pm
Longbow is fine. The less people that use it, the better I feel.  8-)
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: PanPan on February 11, 2012, 06:43:21 pm
Longbow is fine. The less people that use it, the better I feel.  8-)
Same for me :)
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: El_Infante on February 11, 2012, 07:12:06 pm
Longbow is fine. The less people that use it, the better I feel.  8-)

Tenne! We know that you wanna be a special and unique guy :P
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Jarlek on February 11, 2012, 07:49:50 pm
Longbow is bestbow!
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: PanPan on February 11, 2012, 08:29:50 pm
Tenne! We know that you wanna be a special and unique guy :P
He is...
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Tennenoth on February 11, 2012, 11:34:19 pm
He is...

True, we're all special and unique, I don't know of anyone else who has been "blessed" with my good looks.  :lol:

I'm going to start clamouring for another bow, identicle to the longbow but called "Tenne's Trajectoral Transporter".

EDIT: No euphamisms please!
Title: Re: Solution for unused Longbow
Post by: _Sebastian_ on February 12, 2012, 12:36:32 am
I disagree.
- Missile speed. (Ridiculous +1 from horn bow. Tell me how a 1.80m bow can have the same missile speed than a 0.80m one)
The bow length has nothing to do with the missile speed.

How fast a bow shots an arrow depends on the material of the bow, the material quality, it's shape, it's strenght, the string and the weigth of the (bow)arms.
...
It also depends on the arrow weight, the shaft stiffness, the shaft shape, the arrowhead weight , the shape of the arrowhead and the feather shape and postition.

The Hornbow is a recurve composite bow wich is able to shot an arrow faster than a selfbow(one wood).
Also a longer bow has heavier arms which are slower because of the mass inertia.

by the way;
longbow = 2.12m
hornbow = 1.10m

mw arbalest has 62 missle speed lol) 80 will be cool ofc 8-)
The calculated missile speed of;
- mw arbalest = 74.40m/s

- mw longbow +  6pd = 67.67m/s
- mw longbow + 10pd = 76.54m/s



For a few days ago I made a test about the missile speed and it's max range;
I made some test's about the max range with the cRPG- and Native air friction.

So I changed the arena map for the test, now it looks like this;
(click to show/hide)

I tested the mw longbow with 6PD and 10PD with the different friction values.
I shot about 60 arrows in different angles, to find the max range of each bow-setup(with air friction the angle is below 45°);
(click to show/hide)

Here are my results for the MW Longbow;
cRPG air friction = 0.003
43m/s +  6pd = 67.67m/s  max range = 243.4m
43m/s + 10pd = 76.54m/s  max range = 278.5m

Native air friction = 0.002
43m/s +  6pd = 67.67m/s  max range = 285.3m
43m/s + 10pd = 76.54m/s  max range = 332.4m

As you can see,
in cRPG you are not able to shot an arrow over ~278 meters with 10PD and a starting speed of 76.54m/s !
This is because of the air friction(0.003) which is not realistic for medieval arrows or bolts.

The air firction in native(0.002) seems to be more realistic, but it is still a little bit to high.
Also the missile speed of 76.54m/s is to high for a selfbow(one wood).

The range world record of a selfbow was shot by Chief AJmit with a 200pound yew-warbow, the range was 557m(with flight arrows).
And you know that the weight of a flight arrow is ca. 20 to 30 gramms.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: justme on February 12, 2012, 04:24:28 pm
just nerf other bows and longbow will be fine..
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Aleta on February 20, 2012, 09:00:32 pm
The longbow is supposed to have better missile speed, accuracy and damage than the other bows. So the other bows should be reduced in damage and missile speed, which will make the longbow the weapon it truly is. Perhaps also add some more missile speed to the longbow.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Rumblood on February 21, 2012, 12:05:03 am
The longbow is supposed to have better missile speed, accuracy and damage than the other bows.

How about.....no it isn't. Which makes the rest of your comment worthless.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Cup1d on February 21, 2012, 01:32:28 pm
The longbow is supposed to have better missile speed, accuracy and damage than the other bows. So the other bows should be reduced in damage and missile speed, which will make the longbow the weapon it truly is. Perhaps also add some more missile speed to the longbow.

what?

Do you remember this old joke - I can make my work quickly, cheap ang fine. But you can choose only two option.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Aleta on February 21, 2012, 04:23:59 pm
It is realistic that a bow that is very heavy to draw (and therefore slower to draw), also will have arrows flying faster and with more force than smaller bows. Accuracy on bows often means keeping accuracy also on longer ranges. So it's natural, balanced and realistic that the longbow is more accurate, more damaging and has more missile speed than the other bows. What it pays for this is that it's slow to draw. (aka low speed rating) (I think perhaps you thought of missile speed and speed rating as the same when reading my post :P )
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Rumblood on February 21, 2012, 06:26:06 pm
It is realistic that a bow that is very heavy to draw (and therefore slower to draw),

And therefore harder to draw, which means you are using more white muscle instead of red muscle, which fatigues faster, which means it can't maintain tension as well for as long as red muscle, which means you are less accurate as your muscles achieve fatigue much faster with a bow with a stronger pull.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Adalwulf on February 25, 2012, 03:43:06 am
The longbow was the machine gun of the Middle Ages: accurate, deadly, possessed of a long range and rapid rate of fire, the flight of its missiles was likened to a storm.

What I mean is drawing the longbow was fast a medieval longbowmen would carry approximately 60-72 arrows to battle,  But because of the weight of the bow and the strain on the muscles and back they would not shoot more then 6-10 arrows per minute. Also not to waste ammunition of course.

With that said we do need a balance in between the real speed of drawing a longbow and the strain it took to use one over time......and the only way of fixing this is the dreaded stamina bar....which I really want for crpg but will never happen.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Tennenoth on February 25, 2012, 06:11:02 am
I remember reading a quote which goes something along the lines of "... They knew they were longbowmen by their twisted spines" - Skeletons recovered from HMS Victory (?) after it was bought back to surface.

There is already a nice balance between the fact that you could in effect loose a lot of arrows in a short space of time but you really wouldn't want to do it for very long because of the high strain it would put on you, hence the twisted spines (not surprising really).

By game balance, the longbow doesn't really have a niche, nor does it really scream to the best bow in the game. The warbow pretty solidly takes that plinth if I am honest with my outlook. All of the bows are pretty evenly spaced until it hits the longbow, I understand that the item balancers have their reasons for this although I would like to see a slight increase in the missile speed at the very least so that it has a bit more of an advantage and a desirable quality than higher damage and drastically reduced draw speed.

The longbows biggest flaw is certainly the fact that the draw time takes so long that you actually miss the "sweet spot" with your accuracy. By the time the game actually allows you to loose the arrow, your reticle has already bounced in and out, therefore making your shot more inaccurate. It's a pain in the arse and as far as I know, it's due to the low draw speed however as it was unusable many a patch ago when I originally petitions for a speed increase, this was much, much worse.
As far as I understand, it stems from the animations that we use, they are slower than the native ones given the same point ratings so 50 speed is the minimum (I found) to make the longbow at least, for the most part, usable.

The warbow, being 8 faster means that it safely misses this problem and allows you to hold your reticle for longer, because you have finished the animation before you're allowed to shoot.

I would say to bring the draw speed in line with the other bows but once again this would, in opinion, change the balance of bows again since the longbow, really, from what I see, is supposed to be a higher damage weapon at the cost of the speed.

The largest jump between an increase in damage and speed is between the tatar bow and the horn bow. You gain 2 damage (same as all other bows) at a penalty of 5 speed (as opposed to 3 in the rest)*** Maybe increasing the speed by 2 points would be a nice compromise for the longbow to (hopefully, not tested) kill off the unwanted "lag" between animation finish and reticle degredation.

This isn't really a massive compromise and won't be particularly noticable for the player base other than those who explicitly use the longbow and although it doesn't really address the issue that some people have that "it doesn't fit a niche anymore", it'll make it more viable by dealing with, what I think, is it's biggest bugbear.
Naturally, these are my opinions and they are biased, but I feel it's a reasonable compromise between actually buffing the bow to a state of supremecy and keeping it balanced.

*** Please note, I don't qualify the Yumi bow as a viable weapon and don't include it due to my biased opinion. That really does fit a niche market that doesn't seem to exist from what I have seen! :S

Also, I have nothing to with item balancing and I have little insight other than what everyone else sees, I just thought that I would share my opinion about it since I use the longbow no matter what.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Smoothrich on February 25, 2012, 06:11:20 am
just nerf other bows and longbow will be fine..

do this, any other decision here is retarded

especially nerf the ever living shit out of the rus bow, that weapon makes me sick
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Jarlek on February 26, 2012, 02:42:54 am
-snip-
Actually there IS a niche for the longbow, but there just aren't many in that niche. I found the Longbow to be the perfect bow for my armoured 1h/archer hybrid, with 6PD 130wpf. All the bows were usable and up to par against the "peasant" bowmen (unarmoured scum!), but the Longbow was just PERFECT with that build. You wouldn't shoot faster than the others anyway, but with the longbow that would never happen. The increased missile speed actually meant I could do accurate long-range shooting; something I thought my build wasn't capable of when I used the Rus Bow. The damage was also a nice bonus, as I didn't have as much PD as most other archers. The Longbow and the Heavy Archer fit together like hands and gloves! Too bad everyone is so stuck in the "noooo, I can't have penalties with my archer! Any penalty makes me übernerfed QQ!" mindset. The penalty isn't THAT big that it matters :/
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Adalwulf on February 26, 2012, 02:58:16 am
Actually there IS a niche for the longbow, but there just aren't many in that niche. I found the Longbow to be the perfect bow for my armoured 1h/archer hybrid, with 6PD 130wpf. All the bows were usable and up to par against the "peasant" bowmen (unarmoured scum!), but the Longbow was just PERFECT with that build. You wouldn't shoot faster than the others anyway, but with the longbow that would never happen. The increased missile speed actually meant I could do accurate long-range shooting; something I thought my build wasn't capable of when I used the Rus Bow. The damage was also a nice bonus, as I didn't have as much PD as most other archers. The Longbow and the Heavy Archer fit together like hands and gloves! Too bad everyone is so stuck in the "noooo, I can't have penalties with my archer! Any penalty makes me übernerfed QQ!" mindset. The penalty isn't THAT big that it matters :/

you are wrong. Most archers only have 6 PD because getting more is useless if you want to have accuracy and longbow with 130 wpf is horrible. I'd beat you any day with my weak as peasant with 6 PD and horn bow. you wouldn't even draw your bow before you'd have to dodge  and by then your accuracy would be in shambles.

Longbow needs faster missile speed if it doesn't get a better draw speed and this I believe most that are archers would agree with.
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: Jarlek on February 26, 2012, 03:47:36 am
you are wrong. Most archers only have 6 PD because getting more is useless if you want to have accuracy and longbow with 130 wpf is horrible. I'd beat you any day with my weak as peasant with 6 PD and horn bow. you wouldn't even draw your bow before you'd have to dodge  and by then your accuracy would be in shambles.

Longbow needs faster missile speed if it doesn't get a better draw speed and this I believe most that are archers would agree with.
Yes, I am obviously wrong. That's why I topped the scoreboards all the time that gen :rolleyes: This was even during the nerf to archer body damage and before the separation of body and limb damage calculation patch. You know, when everyone whined about archer being UP.

Remember that you got to hit me 4-5 times against my own 2 on you. Barring that, I could always just charge you with my weapon and beat you to shambles. And saying I wouldn't draw my bow. Lol, so fail. The first thing I learned was to start drawing while the other archer was halfway, dodge his arrow while I was still notching mine, and then stand still, getting full accuracy as he still haven't gotten his second arrow out. Yeah, you shoot faster than me, but the difference isn't that great. But hey, I like how you completely discredit my build without ever trying it out or knowing anything about it. Just stay with your awesome archer!

That being said, balancing this on a duel is fucking retarded. I never claimed to be able to outshoot anyone (I actually said I didn't), but in a battle scenario I would most of the time come out on top. If I'm shooting at you archer, you really can't just ignore me, so I'll stop you from shooting my melee guys, usually ending in a drawn out archer duel, helping my team out like that. Whatever sides melee wins, usually dictates which teams ends up winning, but I have a much higher chance of success against the damaged remains of the melee fight who comes after me, while all you can do is kite. Oh, what's that? An archer who actually stands and fight and does it properly? Who could have guessed... I can also help out the melee guys just as well with my bow as you can, usually better since I'm not penalized by getting too close to the enemy, making the stun shots before my ally cleave them, so much easier to do. Anyone charging me would be fighting a guy with full melee capabilities and a decent weapon. Can a normal archer do that? No, running is your best option for that. Which you'd do if my melee guys won and which would lead you to get an arrow in the back from me.

But what is the point with this anyway? What I posted was a response to Tenny about the Longbow actually having a niche. Are you disputing this? Are you saying there are other bows that are better for the armoured archer/1h hybrid? Please, feel free to post and explain!
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: _Tak_ on February 26, 2012, 09:42:39 am
Yes the Rus bow needs a nerf its too fast and OP. Damage should be reduce 2 or it's speed should be reduce as well to match the long bow
Title: Re: Another Longbow thread.
Post by: [ptx] on February 26, 2012, 02:35:08 pm
I remembered something, today - it was promised, that with WSE, longbow would get the old archery animation back...