cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dexterous_Rex on February 17, 2011, 01:32:36 pm
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Hey i dont know if this has been brought up, and i am just kind of thinking to myself at 3 in the morning, but has anyone ever considered implementing a "disarm" ability to weps with high enough wpf? Or maybe only for couching? You could always pick it back up if you can get to it, and theres already weapon drop/pick-up coding.... just a random thought
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Could be cool, but we already have so much things to balance out I don't think it's a good idea to add others...
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Now imagine, let's say.. A bar mace, crushing through your block (or shield), knocking you down on the grass, and disarming to boot or, an agility stacker, with fast weapon, like Sidesword, Longsword or Katana, unleashing countless sideswings on you, untill you are disarmed.
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maybe not disarming CLOTHING..... could be weps only, and with enough successive couching blows you would have a CHANCE (not a sure thing) of a disarm. if someone is successively couching multiple times in RL, someone MIGHT lose their wep
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Might be realistic and fun for a little while, but in the end, it will end up like a annoying ability, much like how crush-through is atm :?
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Might be realistic and fun for a little while, but in the end, it will end up like a annoying ability, much like how crush-through is atm :?
Yes if it is implemented like crushthrough is :?
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Is a great idea but the disarmament should work only with chamber block. Then chamber have sense. Of corse not all weapons only special.
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Is a great idea but the disarmament should work only with chamber block. Then chamber have sense. Of corse not all weapons only special.
You mean, when you chamberblock someone you have a chance to disarm him ? Hey that sounds good :D
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yes that what i mean, sorry for my bad eanglish if my first post was unintelligible.
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yes that what i mean, sorry for my bad eanglish if my first post was unintelligible.
No, it's simply I think the idea is so good I say it again like it's myself who found it :mrgreen:
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A disarm chance for certain weapons would be cool and would give a reason for having backup weapons
Like then maybe carrying a small dagger isn't such a bad idea :p
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You mean, when you chamberblock someone you have a chance to disarm him ? Hey that sounds good :D
How about only if the chamber attack damages you. Like if you block it, it does nothing. But if the chamber attack damages you, you drop your weapon.
This way people who pay attention can still block it and it doesn't turn into a random lotto thing
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No.
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I don't like random chances, this should be an intentional move if implemented. For example you disarm someone by attacking an enemy and he chamber and then you chamber his thrust chamber with an overhead.
Something complicated anyway. Personally I don't like the idea, but whatever.
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yea i agree. i dont think this should be a "chance"move really. would be better as a skill move
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I don't like random chances, this should be an intentional move if implemented. For example you disarm someone by attacking an enemy and he chamber and then you chamber his thrust chamber with an overhead.
Something complicated anyway. Personally I don't like the idea, but whatever.
It shouldn't be something overly complicated though or it will never be used and then what's the point of implementing it at all.
It should be something you can fairly easily "attempt" and defend against but it depends on paying attention
Unlike the kick which you need either a stroke of luck, be desperate or have the other guy be totally careless in order to pull off.
Losing your weapon shouldn't mean certain death. You should still have control over your character and not get stunned like from a kick
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in RL it is very difficult to disarm enemy (it is usually wrestling move and halfswording - not like in movies), but regarding lances - if you make shishkebab it is hard to carry dead body + armor on lance and make another hit
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Disarming someone is not that hard.
I mean, if you damage someones hand or arm he will likely drop his weapon. That's a disarm no?
Disarming him without harming him would be harder / more dangerous.
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It could also be an ability of some weapons, e.g. swordbreakers.
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I don't think dex means some random my old friendgy thing like press h to disarm now. It would be a good way to tell crushthrough spammers to fuck off.
Situation: all strength build 9 powerstrike 9 ironflesh heavy armor and bar mace. Fighting average balanced shield spear 1h hybrid with ligh armor
heavy guy is thinking im gonna overhand spam this Bitch til he cries
Hybrid is thinking oh shit oh shit need multiplyer please help me teammates
What happens.
heavy hits crushes through
hybrid has little health and has recovered but decides fuck it and starts swinging madly in the heavies general direction
heavy is hit multiple times and all of a sudden his weapon drops cuz he can't block enough hits.
Now the heavy is like run away and find a sword
(Heavy has no athletics)
Speedy hybrid now runs down heavy and whacks him in the back 8 times til heavy dies.
this situation withought a lucky disarm goes as follows,
Heavy over hand overhand overhand. Laughs at dead hybrid and tbags the corpse while at home the hybrid goes into the fetal position and cries
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I don't think dex means some random my old friendgy thing like press h to disarm now. It would be a good way to tell crushthrough spammers to fuck off.
Situation: all strength build 9 powerstrike 9 ironflesh heavy armor and bar mace. Fighting average balanced shield spear 1h hybrid with ligh armor
heavy guy is thinking im gonna overhand spam this Bitch til he cries
Hybrid is thinking oh shit oh shit need multiplyer please help me teammates
What happens.
heavy hits crushes through
hybrid has little health and has recovered but decides fuck it and starts swinging madly in the heavies general direction
heavy is hit multiple times and all of a sudden his weapon drops cuz he can't block enough hits.
Now the heavy is like run away and find a sword
(Heavy has no athletics)
Speedy hybrid now runs down heavy and whacks him in the back 8 times til heavy dies.
this situation withought a lucky disarm goes as follows,
Heavy over hand overhand overhand. Laughs at dead hybrid and tbags the corpse while at home the hybrid goes into the fetal position and cries
9 Power strike isnt even enough to crush through with the barmace, I'm leveling a full strenght guy and I have 10 power strike and I've yet to crush through with any barmaces :/
Also not to mention anyone with enough power strike and strength to crush through will be extremely slow thus making it really easy to footwork your way to victory.
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No.
There should not be any 'auto-win' features added. Crushthrough is hardly OP either, you have plenty of chance to fight back. Weapon comes out of hands, insta death in many circumstances, just sounds like an OP ability that doesn't need to be added to the game.
Unless of course they also add wrestling, so once I'm disarmed I can wrestle you to the ground, tear your eyes out and choke you to death.
Yeah, I don't see either of these ideas happening lol.
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Disarming someone is not that hard.
I mean, if you damage someones hand or arm he will likely drop his weapon. That's a disarm no?
Disarming him without harming him would be harder / more dangerous.
one minor wound can sometimes cause physical or mental shock that lasts long enough that it allows enemy to take off your head instead of arm, but that's not the point. it could be implemented grappling the enemy and then that who waster clicks, disarms enemy (mousekiller)
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No.
There should not be any 'auto-win' features added. Crushthrough is hardly OP either, you have plenty of chance to fight back. Weapon comes out of hands, insta death in many circumstances, just sounds like an OP ability that doesn't need to be added to the game.
Unless of course they also add wrestling, so once I'm disarmed I can wrestle you to the ground, tear your eyes out and choke you to death.
Yeah, I don't see either of these ideas happening lol.
+1
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No.
There should not be any 'auto-win' features added. Crushthrough is hardly OP either, you have plenty of chance to fight back. Weapon comes out of hands, insta death in many circumstances, just sounds like an OP ability that doesn't need to be added to the game.
Unless of course they also add wrestling, so once I'm disarmed I can wrestle you to the ground, tear your eyes out and choke you to death.
Yeah, I don't see either of these ideas happening lol.
So are you against the idea of disarm, or are you against the idea of a overpowered disarm? Because it sounds like the latter.
Nobody wants auto win features.
I think a disarm would add more color to the combat. Just the feature of being able to disarm someone somehow.
If it's doable, simple, spices things up and someone has the time and will to add it and balance it then why not?
I think it's a shame you dismiss a potentially good addition like that. It should at least be explored
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one minor wound can sometimes cause physical or mental shock that lasts long enough that it allows enemy to take off your head instead of arm, but that's not the point. it could be implemented grappling the enemy and then that who waster clicks, disarms enemy (mousekiller)
And that would be sweet. But someone would have to make a combat system for it and new animations.
For the developers sake, the less new stuff and changes you need to make it work, the easier it would be to add to the game.
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So are you against the idea of disarm, or are you against the idea of a overpowered disarm? Because it sounds like the latter.
Nobody wants auto win features.
I think a disarm would add more color to the combat. Just the feature of being able to disarm someone somehow.
If it's doable, simple, spices things up and someone has the time and will to add it and balance it then why not?
I think it's a shame you dismiss a potentially good addition like that. It should at least be explored
I'm not dismissing it, just stating that I feel the ability to disarm someones weapon would basically spell instant death to whoever it happens to 99% of the time. The fact is someone WILL get really good at it and it will be even harder than it usually is fighting against another skilled opponent because they'll disarm you everytime, or all the good players will basically just end up practicing it so much like everyone had to do with manual block once upon a time, then all the good players will just be running around disarming everyone and eachother.
It's just the game, the engine and everything else, if the game was designed with these kind of things, then it would probably already be in use, with stuff like disarming and grappling, but that isn't the case. Disarming can only work when there are other counter abilities as I said, like grappling, otherwise it's an unbalanced and OP ability, regardless of difficulty to perform.
I could only personally agree with an idea like this if a whole system of disarm and grappling was put into the game, but I don't see that happening at all, infact the hard-coding most likely makes that impossible.
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A better solution to this is damage to area of contact, arm damage makes you swing slower leg damage makes you run slower ect.
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The fact is someone WILL get really good at it and it will be even harder than it usually is fighting against another skilled opponent because they'll disarm you everytime, or all the good players will basically just end up practicing it so much like everyone had to do with manual block once upon a time, then all the good players will just be running around disarming everyone and eachother.
True, and I totally agree that the coding will probably make this idea impossible, but wouldnt it be a skill that you would have to commit to? Like 1h 150 wpf? It would be along the lines, at least in my idea of it, kinda like a dedicated thrower or archer. People would complain when they get killed by them about how cheap of a skill it is, but then again, they might really enjoy making an alternate skill fighter.
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True, and I totally agree that the coding will probably make this idea impossible, but wouldnt it be a skill that you would have to commit to? Like 1h 150 wpf? It would be along the lines, at least in my idea of it, kinda like a dedicated thrower or archer. People would complain when they get killed by them about how cheap of a skill it is, but then again, they might really enjoy making an alternate skill fighter.
Everyone would use it where possible ( i.e most builds would be capable of fitting this in, infact many new builds would be built around it ) because it would be the single most powerful ability in the game, to disarm someone in close combat is basically killing them if you are armed with the proper weapon, or even more so if you already outnumber the opponent.
Something like this really would need a proper grappling system to be balanced and yeah it could be fun hypothetically. But my point was that I really don't see that happening, not even in the future, because the hard-coding probably makes it impossible, or restricts it so much that it would be overly tacky, simple and basic to be even worth implementing.
Maybe something for future Mount and Blade games if Taleworlds wants to take it down that road, but as it stands it just wouldn't really fit into the gameplay, Mount and Blade is still an arcade hack and slash game, there is not really any realistic factors in the combat itself. Locational damage causing wounding and making you slower or weak in different ways could work, but again probably quite limited by the engine.
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simple, if you get chambered twice in a row, theres a 10% chance to drop your weapons.
If you are holding a ranged weapon ready to fire and you get hit, there is a 80% chance you drop it.
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Not a bad idea. Maybe it could be a bit different...whenever you are blocked, the chance that you can be disarmed increases by 10%, and this chance is activated in a chambering. So, if you block someone 3 times, then chamber, you have a 30% chance to disarm him. If you block 10 times or more, then chamber, he WILL drop his weapon.
This should still be sufficiently hard to pull off.
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...No. It is ridiculously easy to block 10 attacks in a row if you're just blocking and not opening yourself up by trying to attack.
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Locational damage causing wounding and making you slower or weak in different ways could work, but again probably quite limited by the engine.
If SquareSoft's 4th game for PSOne, Bushido Blade, could do it in 1997, I have every confidence that the devs of our cherished simulator could pull it off fairly close to perfection. Even if this is only an idea that gets implemented into the next generation of midieval ground combat sims, I think it is well worth looking into.
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If SquareSoft's 4th game for PSOne, Bushido Blade, could do it in 1997, I have every confidence that the devs of our cherished simulator could pull it off fairly close to perfection. Even if this is only an idea that gets implemented into the next generation of midieval ground combat sims, I think it is well worth looking into.
You are missing the point, that game was developed to be that way regardless of the date it was made, Warband wasn't developed with those features in mind, the only locations on your player are head which includes the neck, then the body counts as everything all the way down to the knee, including your arms. Which means you have 3 hit locations only, getting hit in the thigh would have the same effect as being hit in the arm.
Sadly, locational damage is most likely be very limited by the engines hard-coding itself. Regardless of what chadz can code himself, hard-coding implies coding that cannot be altered by anyone but the developers of the game, which usually requires alot of work.
That's just how I imagine it anyway, I could be wrong, but I don't see this feature going very far for Warband. But yeah I also highly doubt anyone developing next gen medieval combat games are going to come and read cRPG forum for ideas lol.
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Are you sure about the hitzones? I could swear I've read somewhere, that shooting someone in the arm or leg does less damage then shooting him into the chest. But now I'm not sure at all...
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But ... If getting hit in the leg is the same as getting hit in the arm, how come do we have separate leg armor? If the game can't differentiate between chest/legs, then wtf?
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But ... If getting hit in the leg is the same as getting hit in the arm, how come do we have separate leg armor? If the game can't differentiate between chest/legs, then wtf?
they have body (upper body+arms), head, and legs+feet
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they have body (upper body+arms), head, and legs+feet
Yes. So the game CAN differentiate between upper body, head and feet.
SO STFU NEMETH AND SAY THIGH IF YOU MEAN THIGH NOT LEG FFS
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Yes the Leg counts as knee downwards to my knowledge, from the thigh all the way up to the neck, including the arms, counts as Body. It leaves only 3 locational damages if locational damage is possible, so it would be pretty bland and I doubt it would add much to the dynamics of the game, other than a ton of archers shooting your legs so you move slower, then they get more shots on you lol.
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...locations on your player are head which includes the neck, then the body counts as everything all the way down to the knee, including your arms...
I fail at reading, sorry for the OT there. And Xant, you stfu, I don't like your caps!
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..Yes, I failed at reading too, hence the quick addition blaming you (AND IT WAS partially YOUR fault BECAUSE I didn't READ his post WHOLLY because of YOU)
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You should watch the spam, being watched and all...
I still dont like your partial caps!
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Shut up peasants!
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...No. It is ridiculously easy to block 10 attacks in a row if you're just blocking and not opening yourself up by trying to attack.
You still have to follow it with a chamber block. Of course, if the chamber block fails, the counter starts at 0 again. I don't think it's so easy to block ten times then chamber.
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You still have to follow it with a chamber block. Of course, if the chamber block fails, the counter starts at 0 again. I don't think it's so easy to block ten times then chamber.
It is. Very easy. Especially after you've blocked so many times, you know the opponent's rhythm too.
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cool idea, but hard to implement. Doesn't mean we shouldn't plan and dream though.
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I say something simple like hitting the hand will disarm. There is still a chance of it happening though. More hand protection you have the less chance of it happening.
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If this is implemented it should be mostly affected by how much you hit your opponents arms, a duh. Cut a tendon or smash a bone and they won't be able to hold near as strong a grip in the corresponding hand.
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The problem is that the engine can't distinguish hand hits from general arm hits. I'm not even sure if it can distinguish arm from body hits, to be honest...
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If the game can't differentiate between chest/legs, then wtf?
they have body (upper body+arms), head, and legs+feet
A lot of higher-end body armors have ample extra leg protection, and only one set (gothic plate) has a leg armor AND head armor bonus
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I also highly doubt anyone developing next gen medieval combat games are going to come and read cRPG forum for ideas
ye of little faith. never know which one of these college students playing this game will grow up and make the next game we all want to play
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ye of little faith. never know which one of these college students playing this game will grow up and make the next game we all want to play
I'm pretty sure the whole idea of abilities like 'disarming' have been done in many other games in many different forms, disarming isn't a new idea. Lol, faith has nothing to do with it either, just being real, game developers aren't going to be reading cRPG forum for ideas on their games regardless of if they played cRPG or not.