cRPG
cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Neux on February 15, 2011, 10:40:27 am
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Shit is just getting retarded now. It's too easy to be a thrower.... Needs to have some WPF requirement to be worth a shit... like archery.
PT should not be the only stat required to throw and kill. Having a WPF requirement to make it viable would weed out the random shit heads that pick it up as a secondary thing dumping 6+ points in it, it's just stupid.
Shit like this really just turns this mod into WoW. Unskilled things like throwing being available just by dumping a few skill points and hey now you're a fucking bad ass.
No player skill or effort required.
Now let the shit bad throwers come out and defend their only means of scoring kills.
....and go
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Have you ever tried throwing at all?
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Yes, I have tried throwing. And it is a dickless unskilled way to go.
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Obviosuly you havent tried it then......Throwing is VERY annoying when your ina nice melee and suddenly it ends with headshot francisca BUT, THATS THE POINT. I imagine it was the same in real life: Turn your back on a viking, he will chuck an axe at you.
I do fine with 0 PT and 70 wpf on one char, PT3 and 120 wpf for my semi deidcated thrower, its still not easy to hit AWARE people.
If you arent looking or taking evasive, your dead meat for ANY ranged, but unless you are climbing a ladder, its not TOO hard to avoid someone chucking stuff, and they dont have much ammo anyway.
ONLY way I can see throwing being a problem would be if I had made a pure STR build, but since this is suicide vs any decent player anyway, noone should have a real probelm avoiding projectiles, its when your NOT LOOKING that they get you mostly, and in that aspect, WHO CARES if it was a throwing star or someone clubbing you, backstabbed IS backstabbed.
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I have tried throwing, as I said. It took no effort at all to get kills with and that is a fact.
I have no problem with the few dedicated throwers, just the fact that EVERY OTHER PLAYER now seems to have throwing secondary.
It's just gotten to the point where it is too fucking easy mode so everyone picks it up.
There is no balance to it, there is no player effort required to do it, just a few skill points and you're good to go.
And buddy, as far as that real life bullshit you're talking.... first of all... "lol" I really don't think in "real life" vikings ran around carrying 12 throwing axes.
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I have tried throwing, as I said. It took no effort at all to get kills with and that is a fact.
Then make it your main and ENJOY.
And buddy, as far as that real life bullshit you're talking.... first of all... "lol" I really don't think in "real life" vikings ran around carrying 12 throwing axes.
Only takes one......
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Then make it your main and ENJOY.
Only takes one......
Hey good point only takes one, so limit throwing to ONE per slot. Perfect idea buddy, thank you.
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I consider throwing like xbow. You can pick up xbow as secondary weapon with just some WPF and no other req ( beside str ); for throwing its the other way around : no WPF, but PT; which is a dedicated effort to throwing.
Only thing is, the spammability and power of throwing is so great in alot of melee encounter, that it's clearly wiser (and easier) to now stop camp roofs as archers and go score kills in melee like a true badass.
Archers (and xbow) needs more love in my opinion, by buffing them or nerfing damage output of throwing weapons.
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Crossbow's the most balanced right now. Accurate, deadly and fast moving projectile... but if you manage to dodge/the xbower misses, you get a lot of time to maneuver.
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bah my main is a pure polearm build and a I also have a alt strength build with 11PT and 11 PS and i can't say there is a big difference in K/d ratio.
And i suck at blocking...
I just checked and the difference in kill ratio is 0.01 lol
I don't get killed by thrower that much, just don't rush them if they are in a group and you don't have a shield.
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Obviosuly you havent tried it then......Throwing is VERY annoying when your ina nice melee and suddenly it ends with headshot francisca BUT, THATS THE POINT. I imagine it was the same in real life: Turn your back on a viking, he will chuck an axe at you.
I do fine with 0 PT and 70 wpf on one char, PT3 and 120 wpf for my semi deidcated thrower, its still not easy to hit AWARE people.
If you arent looking or taking evasive, your dead meat for ANY ranged, but unless you are climbing a ladder, its not TOO hard to avoid someone chucking stuff, and they dont have much ammo anyway.
ONLY way I can see throwing being a problem would be if I had made a pure STR build, but since this is suicide vs any decent player anyway, noone should have a real probelm avoiding projectiles, its when your NOT LOOKING that they get you mostly, and in that aspect, WHO CARES if it was a throwing star or someone clubbing you, backstabbed IS backstabbed.
:rolleyes:
Dedicated (pure throwers) have PT 10 or more. Semi dedicated (hybrid) throwers have 5-10 PT, usually 6 or 8 PT. While 5-6 PT throwers aren't an issue, everything above that is deadly and getting worse with every new PT skill point.
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The problem with throwing is their machinegun fire rate, countless times I was going towards a thrower, dodge the first 2 projectiles and just when I am about to hit him I get 1shot wtfpwned. It would be fair for the thrower to have to pull a melee weapon (or press x to use his throwing instrument as melee) instead of just spamming with 90% chance to win.
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Currenly it's like... manage to dodge 3-4 projectiles, if you're lucky hit them once.. then after they get hit, they can still throw shit at you, so you're probably dead. OR. Dodge 3-4 projectiles, watch them press X, block one attack, backpedal and throw some more shit.
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If they choose to switch to melee weapon in that situation, they will die because they can't block your hit. Switching to alternate mode isn't any better because you can only block, there is little chance you'll kill someone (unless you're using Heavy Throwing Axe or Throwing Lance).
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Duh, if you switch to alternate mode you're not going to be aiming to kill anyone. You want to block a hit or two, get enough distance to change to throwing mode, throw and in the unlikely scenario that your opponent doesn't die, repeat.
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fix throwing ?
buy a shield.
try not charging directly at them.
use tactics.
use crossbows.
use archery.
use throwing(firevsfire)
use cav
dodge & close the distance spam to death.
orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
GO ON THE FORUMS AND QQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQ
I really wish they'd just nerf everything and we could play with foam swords so tired of dying.
IMO throwing damage & ammo is a bit much but eh what can you do, adapt, die or cry.
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Or wait until the new patch comes out, because devs know throwing is OP too. :3
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It's so OP I KNOW RIIIIIIIIGHT
you can't kill a thrower in anyway in this game, they're invincible and they kill everyone in one shot without aiming ! Omgzzzzzzzzzzzz haxxxx.. RIght?
they can throw 200 javelins in less than a minute, all throwing weapons are homing heat seeking nukes.
throwers are mushroom cloud layin' mother fuckers mother fucker.
juss trollinn
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use cav
yes because we love being dehorsed or 1 hit killed by them
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fix throwing ?
buy a shield.
Almost any throwing axe will kill a level 2-3 shield in 1 hit.
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I listed more than 1 thing to do guys, if you didn't fancy 'buy a shield' or 'cav' then you could go with 'tactics' or 'don't charge head first towards them'
I see them QQ, they hatin'
here's a new version
ADAPT, DIE, CRY, or WAIT FOR NERF
also, to Punisher try a board shield, I think it has like over 200 hp and thats a level 1 shield.
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I listed more than 1 thing to do guys, if you didn't fancy 'buy a shield' or 'cav' then you could go with 'tactics' or 'don't charge head first towards them'
Yes, hence the only thing you can do is immediately run backwards when you spawn, until you are cornered and the 50 throwers come at you.
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Some dmg could be tweaked down, BUT by far the biggest problem is the quantity of ammo.
Basically, ammo for throwing should be halved. Some exceptions might exist.
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also, to Punisher try a board shield, I think it has like over 200 hp and thats a level 1 shield.
Dont forget the bonus vs shields part for axes, I use heater shield with level 3 shield skill and it usually gets 1-2 hitted.
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Yes, hence the only thing you can do is immediately run backwards when you spawn, until you are cornered and the 50 throwers come at you.
I wrote more than that even, but you can keep specifying what you think doesn't work.
lulz
Dont forget the bonus vs shields part for axes, I use heater shield with level 3 shield skill and it usually gets 1-2 hitted.
bonus vs shields part of axes doesn't do much when your shield has 200-400 hp, try getting a plain board shield, it has 300+ hp lvl 3 shield I believe. & I mentioned the board shield for the HP because I was thinking of the bonus against shield.
Some dmg could be tweaked down, BUT by far the biggest problem is the quantity of ammo.
Basically, ammo for throwing should be halved. Some exceptions might exist.
^ what this guy said, less ammo maybe a little less damage.
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Throwing is not op imo, its just very overused. Users should have to put in more points before it is effective or it should be really expensive. 8/10 melee fighters now have throwing as a secondary weapon. Melee/throwers should really be worse at melee fighting than pure melee fighters, but they arent. Someone can be a thrower without being at a disadvantage when things get close and personal. It really kills the shieldless 2h classes.
But I'm sure the developer team already noticed this and therefore everyone should stop whining and wait for the next patch.
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Hey good point only takes one, so limit throwing to ONE per slot. Perfect idea buddy, thank you.
IF this would happen every throwing wep should kill from 1 hit no matter pt or wpf . and price reduced 10 X
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IF this would happen every throwing wep should kill from 1 hit no matter pt or wpf . and price reduced 10 X
Yes, because it is only fair for throwers to have 4 guaranteed kills lol.
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The biggest problem of throwing is the damage and the speed. As soon as my thrower (lvl 16) was able to use his heavu throwing axes, I could kill plated guys easily.
Also, if you have thrown the weapon, a new one magically appears in your hand, ready to be thrown again.
Shields get killed too easily, also because of the damage. My cavalry 1h guy has 5 shield skill, and a knightly heater shield, this shield gets killed with 3 javelins at most.
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Just slow down the time between throws. The speed. And it'd be fine.
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Yes, because it is only fair for throwers to have 4 guaranteed kills lol.
guaranteed ? you know you cant aim and be 100% sure your weapon will go where you aimed.. if you want this you must be really close, and if its only you and the enemy you will propably loose, oh and throwing also have this nasty habit to go trought enemy whitout hitting him, like he is some sort of ghost..
as annoying it is right now it is only because lots of people started to play with it
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I find throwing to be too powerful especially in comparison to Archery and XBow. It does way too much damage and I've been 1shot through heavy armor many times.
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These are what I think would fix Throwing.
*Only being able to take 1 stack of throwing weapons.
*1PT every 4-6 str similar to horse archery skill. (This way it don't drop dmg too much while keeping PT10+ an impossibility and don't have to put anymore points into it)
That would make throwing more of a support skill then a dedicated class.
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I would only change one thing about throwing. Slow down the amount of time between throws, especially for larger weapons like the javelin and throwing lance.
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These are what I think would fix Throwing.
*Only being able to take 1 stack of throwing weapons.
*1PT every 4-6 str similar to horse archery skill. (This way it don't drop dmg too much while keeping PT10+ an impossibility and don't have to put anymore points into it)
That would make throwing more of a support skill then a dedicated class.
I have yet to see virtually any dedicated throwers, the majority are still hybrids. If it has something other than 4 stacks of throwing, and if it has wpf and other stats towards something else, it isnt a dedicated thrower.
Incidently how often do you see a pure thrower, top the scoreboard? I could screenshot all my games and I can guarantee that in the majority of them, a melee char of some sort is at the top. Not that I put much stock in scores, but it is a good measurement of an effective build, it's how you get the kills afterall not how many.
By all means nerf throwing in some way, but dont base your opinions on those of the easily angered and irrational.
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Hey good point only takes one, so limit throwing to ONE per slot. Perfect idea buddy, thank you.
Yeah best idea so far +1
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Remove the ability to throw while backpedalling, or make the thrower trip and impale his javelin or whatever into the back of his skull randomly when trying to do this. Fixes 75% of the annoyance with throwing.
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Remove the ability to throw while backpedalling, or make the thrower trip and impale his javelin or whatever into the back of his skull randomly when trying to do this. Fixes 75% of the annoyance with throwing.
+1
but servers already laggy after last patch probably because of the new archery progamming, so adding more would just fuck it over completly
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I dont know how OP throwing is tbh, VS archery its a joke, I shoot the guys before they can get in effective range, and if not, same tactic works everytime:
Dodge and get close while I shoot at them and make them dodge, then pull sword and kill them, almost no thrower is ready to go to melee in time, they are obsessed with trying to get one more javelin launched.
9/10 times it works np.
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To all noobs scared of throwing: Stick with archers or crossbowman who will pick those guys off for you. Get a crushthrough/axe to protect them against shielders. Hide behind shieldmen in large groups, and you'll be fine. If you're a slowass plated 2 hander and you can't chase down a pure thrower, why the hell are you even chasing him? shouldn't you be bar maceing a crowd of scrubs or something?
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Remove the ability to throw while backpedalling, or make the thrower trip and impale his javelin or whatever into the back of his skull randomly when trying to do this. Fixes 75% of the annoyance with throwing.
You stole my suggestion, bitch. Backpedalling is what makes throwing so annoying, yes.
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i can see why throwing is annoing. people are spamming everywhere.
but other then the axe, the low skilled throwing dosnt do that much damage.
and the axe is close ranged. but i agree that spamming should be punished.
its a throwaway (sub)class, it should be expensive ass hell... you cant throw away all your weapons
and expect to get them all back for free the next round... arrows,bolts and throwing gear should have a refill payment each round, it should be adviced to throw less and people should pick it up instead of spamming it all over. people need to think twise before they throw a handfull of steel away. this way a thrower would need to go and pick it up and a tinman would know that staying close to a thrown weapon could lead to a kill. my main attack is throwing, so this is comming from someone you hate ingame.
and a question, the weight of the throwing weapons? do they get reduced?
lets say that 7 war darts is a weight of 3... is 2 war dars then 0.8 in weight?
its a bit contradictive to ask, because if it is... then i am going to spam away all my throwing to get weight redced.
since i run faster with less weight.
and contradictive is good i guess? if its expensive to throw them, but you need light weight and want to throw them.
then you will think twise before you stock up 24 war darts?
random fact:
I imagine it was the same in real life: Turn your back on a viking, he will chuck an axe at you.
its a myth that vikings where axe throwers, they didnt have the money to use that much steel,
(you could call them Peasants..)
they used really light weight armor, only wood sheilds to stop arrows, and the ones who had stolen enough loot and survived got enough money to buy a badass helmet. archery is actully something they where really known for since they where hunters back home.
their tactics where to be fast and destructive. and get out of the town befor other towns around noticed the attack and could come with support, if planned we are talking minutes. and a real viking loved defenless churches and defencless monks. another random fact is that the word "bag" is from the vikings, they had a leather thing on their back that they called a bag and that was where the loot whent.
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Shame they can't adjust the rate at which your accuracy returns after an attack. If throwing got useless innacurate for a few solid sec after each toss that would balance things well.
This way a thrower can still quickly toss them at a good time. But cant continue to spam like mad. not if they want to avoid wasting ammo.
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I play a thrower myself as a side char and I think it's a little overpowered. Reducing ammo would go a long way, I think. E.g. 2 per slot for axes instead of 4 would make a huge difference in my opinion.
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That would make throwing more of a support skill then a dedicated class.
but a master thrower is a dedicated class, not everyone like slamming around with a onehitkill barmaze, and if all the throwers where slow and strong that would make it silly for other then heavy armored people and destroy the pole as a 2nd/1st weapon.
what stops people from wearing a all the way heavy armor with a bad ass super heavy armored horse and a 100foot lancer with a diamond arrow at the front? money. make throwing expensive, and people will stop abusing it.
i dont support the only one stack, because i am trying to be a thrower/polearmer, and the throwing lance would be great for that.
but if it is expensive to refill it will get tuned down. people dont usualy want to waste money, right?
there isnt much materials in a arrow, compaired to an axe.
so it would ofcourse be allot cheaper to be a archer.
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You are indeed correct, Sha_Wujing. cRPG only has two classes... throwing, and yes, you guessed it, onehitkill barmace builds.
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I think throwing would be balanced if a script would implement that would cause throwing weapons to bend, break, or be disabled with, say a 50% chance (obviously could be played with to find an optimal %chance) after impact. This would cut down on the amount of reuseable ammo that throwers would get. The balance on throwers is supposed to be their limited ammo amount, but with the amount of throwing that goes on and the fact that the majority of ammo can be re-picked up and thrown again, the low-ammo balance for the most part is defeated.
With a higher portion of ammo becoming unuseable after being thrown I think would go a long way to bring throwing more in line to where it should be.
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Do what was done wiith other ranged weapons. Decrease damage, increase time between shots, reduce ammo, make it super expansive. Then people will think twice before equiping their heavy axes on their every single melee character.
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Currenly it's like... manage to dodge 3-4 projectiles, if you're lucky hit them once.. then after they get hit, they can still throw shit at you, so you're probably dead. OR. Dodge 3-4 projectiles, watch them press X, block one attack, backpedal and throw some more shit.
You're not fighting a pure thrower. Pure throwers have 3 agility. I bet you have more than 1 athletics, so I can't backpedal faster than you can run forward.
Also, if you just threw a weapon, there's a delay with the x button. It takes about a second or so before it will change to melee, which is more than enough for any 2h to kill me if I missed my last chance axe.
Also, there's indeed a lot of throwing weapons around you can pick up when running out of ammo. Just keep in mind you pick them up in stacks. So with 1 balanced heavy throwing axe left and 3 free slots I can pick up 1 dagger, 1 heavy throwing axe and a javelin and I'm full again. They only way to get full stacks again is to go scavenge. And if I have time to do that, my team is most likely winning anyway.
On top of that, when carrying different types of throwing weapons you have to swap to the next step manually. If you don't watch your ammo, you will find yourself punching the air right before your skull gets cleaved.
On the shields part:
Get a friggin old board shield. It took me 3! axes to break an old board shield held by someone with 1 shield skill when I had 8 PT. Now I can break them with 2 axes, but that's still half a stack of my weapons. Combine that with misses when you run around in a random pattern and it's not that hard to get to me. It's not like I can run away.
It is fun to run, watch the guy comming up to me run in a straigth line and then turn and headshot with an axe.
Imo, the best solution would be an overall reduction in damage. This would reduce hybrids to harassment builds and it wouldn't change that much for dedicated throwers.
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Nah. Pebble_Pusher is a pure thrower and he was able to do what I described to both me and Bjord.
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Just keep pushing after they blocked. Keep facehugging and swinging and they can't do it.
The only times I kill people in melee mode is when they have very bad footwork or when they wait for my next hit (shielders mostly).
And afaik pebble_pusher is dastikka's newest incarnation. He can pull off shit like that more than 90% of the other throwers.
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Yes pebble_pusher is indeed a pure thrower and has been since pre-patch and native. Hes on of the best out there and the reason hes beating you is because thats what throwers are meant to do.
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I just want throwers to trip and stick that goddamn spear into their heads when they backpedal away.
And yes ,it's the hybrids with 18 agi which are incredibly annoying when they're doing this since they're actually quite damn fast, and they still deal shitloads of damage, because 6 PT = 60% bonus on weapons with 34-40 pierce, and if you happen to be moving towards them get a hefty damage bonus because the projectiles are slow.
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Was fooling around with my balanced heavy throwing axes yesterday and while I hit at least 5 different people a round most of the time, I killed 2 maybe 3.
The only guaranteed 1 hit kills are archers and anyone in archer armour/no armour.
The guys in the vaegir elite armour (and similar ones) can take 3-4 hits depending on their IF.
That's with 10 PT.
Jarids are different. 1-2 hits kill just about everything and there's just a select few people able to survive the throwing lances.
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Just keep pushing after they blocked. Keep facehugging and swinging and they can't do it.
The only times I kill people in melee mode is when they have very bad footwork or when they wait for my next hit (shielders mostly).
And afaik pebble_pusher is dastikka's newest incarnation. He can pull off shit like that more than 90% of the other throwers.
Yes, of course they can't do it if you can keep facehugging. But if it's not 1v1 without any distractions, you can't. You can't stay in their face forever, not even for that long actually, in a real battle situation (again, unless 1v1 but that's rare.)
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I play a thrower myself as a side char and I think it's a little overpowered. Reducing ammo would go a long way, I think. E.g. 2 per slot for axes instead of 4 would make a huge difference in my opinion.
200% agree. This would be a good compromise.
Why a 1H axe uses one slot whereas the same slot could contain 4 throwing axes?
Same for lances: one lance, one slot.
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I think damage is fine.
The changes needed regarding throwing IMO are :
- decrease shot speeds (especially for spear like throwing weps)
- make the shot speed heavily depend on the thrower movement speed when he launches his weapon. This effect should not affect 0 requirement throwing weapons. Basicly, throwing a steel and wood weapon should not even be possible if running backwards. Barely going over 15m if standing still, and have a ~50m range with maximum forward running speed (and 45° distance correction).
- increase reload time
- decrease PT bonus to accuracy
- increase accuracy (to compensate)
- decrease wpf effect on speed and increase it on accuracy
- decrease maintenance costs
And a very important last thing :
Make "turning" throwing weapons hit with the correct part. For example any throwing axe should not automaticly hit with the cutting part, but instead 1/2 of the times do it's normal damage, and the other half do a very little blunt damage, without the bonus vs shield, and in that case drop on the floor (not stuck in the opponent's corpse). I don't know if that is possible (but should be with the extensions). Even better would be that the result wasn't based on a random factor, but instead on the real movement of the axe in the air. So REALLY skilled throwers could reliably hit with the cutting part.
I'm conscious all of this means a hell of a time fighting with scripts, but would undoubtly make the game better.
All of this to balance throwing out and make it even skill-linked. The lost in shot speed compensates with the lower cost (because obviously throwing weapons are, speaking about realism, more like they are described here than how they are in the game).
What do you think ?
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No ones mentioned another problem: Throwing axes when used in melee do not have a mesh that matches their range, u can be hit thru a shield or block at max range.
Simply removing throwing weapons from crpg would not noticeably hurt the game tbh. But since that will make much QQ, we are stuck with them. I can block a massive poleaxe with item "wooden stick" but not with a bow.hmmm. Fair? NO. I can 1hit ppl with a throwing axe, then turn and press x, use it as unblockable melee weapon. fair? NO.
Throwing weapons that are usable in melee should come in stacks of 1. No argument is needed, its the only logical solution without nerfing their "reload" speed MASSIVELY, or their super insane accuracy. By this I mean: Javelins, Jarids, shuriken, and lances need a MASSIVE accuracy buff, and range reduction. Throwing axes need their range AND accuracy MASSIVELY nerfed. As it is, you have to be a tard to use anything BUT throwing, since they are cheap, powerful, effective, and cant be blocked.
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I can assume you did extensive tests with video proof to confirm that throwing axes used in melee go through blocks? Also I imagine that the current problems regarding melee, with most people reporting weapons going through blocks, is something you are aware of?
Sorry for the snarky rhetorical questions, but since ive never ever seen this, and the fact that ive blocked a thrower who used an axe in melee many times I cant exactly go on your word.
That aside ive observed that the main complaint about throwing weapons, apart from the usual cry baby 'wah wah its overpowered because I say so' types and of course the sheer amount of it, is about throwing axes specifically. I can honestly say that they are probably the single most effective thrown type of weapon in the game.
Deadly accurate, nasty damage and even pretty good in melee makes for a strong and fearsome combo. I wouldnt disagree atall with a reduction in their ammo supply to 2 or even 1 per slot. The other weapons you mentioned also wouldnt hurt too much from a reduction in ammo, although I might suggest that you could simply remove the melee mode, I mean it would take out even more skill from throwing but hey they wouldnt be hitting you with their magic unblockable attacks anymore and no longer will anyone fear a thrower blocking their attacks in turn then switching mode and one hitting you.
By this I mean: Javelins, Jarids, shuriken, and lances need a MASSIVE accuracy buff
Frankly id happily see lances gone, also shurikens are the last thrown weapon type that needs an accuracy buff.
Throwing weapons that are usable in melee should come in stacks of 1.
You mean like stones, darts and war darts? Indeed a wise idea. :rolleyes: I suppose what you really meant was the throwing weapons that could be used to block, which is all the heavier ones again.
Oh by the way this next paragraph isnt aimed at you specifically Grey.
It's important to remember that if someone can block you in melee with a thrown weapon enough times to change modes and one shot you that usually means firstly: they probably are a lot better at melee than you would like to give them credit for and secondly: if they do one shot you, you either have terrible armour or they have high strength and pt, meaning little to no agility, meaning if they were able to actually get away from you to throw the shot, you probably made a mistake in your movement or they made a decent move in theirs.
Im not saying there arent changes to be made, in fact there have been some great suggestions but once again I just want people to use their intelligence more to gauage a situation rather than their emotions.
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Before the major patch, throwing was a lot less common. So what changed? Let's review :
Accuracy : increased with high proficiency. With low proficiency, it's still as inaccurate as it always was. This is while standing still, not moving.
Reload Speed : Stayed the same
Shot Speed and range : Nerfed, and badly
Damage : Stayed the same
Requirements : Stayed the same
Price : Some went up, some went down.
As you can see, throwing is actually worse, and requires more skill to use than it did before the major patch. So why the huge increase in throwers?
Was it a general population increase across the board? Are throwers just more noticeable because they are annoying? Did the changes to proficiency
make people say, "Why not, it'll cost too much to improve my main skill anyways."? Or in a game where every character is a super hero, not a medieval soldier, does it make sense to have a ranged option?
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Gotta agree with Kophka
Throwing got more popular only after archers got nerfed. There are many throwers , and many of them are very bad at throwing. Ask good players what they think about more throwers, it's just easier kills for them (imo).
Throwing is now so slow that if you,re facing an enemy and you miss 2-3 times in a row , chances that he's very close to you now. And if he has a shield , like many people do now, throwing is ineffective.
And axes in melee are blockable .. it has a small range and it's pretty slow if you don't have much WPF. I keep getting block and c/b so unless Grey you can prove your point, I think it's inexact.
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Kophka I am actually amazed to find someone else who actually noticed this :D. Its most likely because of the upkeep which nerfs heavy armour so its easier to kill people now there are more with lower armour.
But as you quite rightly said throwing is now more easily dodgable duea much slower velocity, as opposed to before when it was like lightening.
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Kophka I am actually amazed to find someone else who actually noticed this :D. Its most likely because of the upkeep which nerfs heavy armour so its easier to kill people now there are more with lower armour.
But as you quite rightly said throwing is now more easily dodgable duea much slower velocity, as opposed to before when it was like lightening.
WTF does that "watched" shit under your avatar mean? Some new repressive measure that the powers-to-be invented?
Also, throwing is the new archery.
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I agree completely, since archery was terribly frustrating for some due to the sheer amount of it on the servers. That's why throwing ought to be changed, but intelligently, not just nerfed for the sake of rage.
As for the watched thing I think it has something to do with admins keeping an eye on those they deem troublesome, or should that be trollsome.
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As a thrower I say we tremendously increase accuracy and remove croshair.
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As for the watched thing I think it has something to do with admins keeping an eye on those they deem troublesome, or should that be trollsome.
HEY, why don't I have that? Come on admins, stop sleeping!
As a thrower I say we tremendously increase accuracy and remove croshair.
Yea, right. Esp because it is so hard to just paint a tipex dot onto your monitor at the correct position.
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remove throwing lances...... i had a friend start up the game play for 3 weeks n go throwing, and rape face by using throwing lances, he topped the scores because each lance if used right guaranteed a kill, his name was squire cooper, heres proof
http://www.thefallenones.com/cRPG/
when it comes to large games naturally throwers wont top the charts due to ammo, (though with so many throwers ammo is every where) but what annoys people is this, a guy with a throwing lances back peddling til he can throw a lance at point blank range which cant possibly miss and killing you, sure his team may lose but whats bothering people is that they cant do anything to stop a throwing lance, i refused to ride my champion charger because it would get 2 shot, i could take 2 if i stood still or one if i ran at him, which due to the bubble on my shield being gone i quickly realize his lance would peg my leg n 1 shot me, that is when its op, i cant do anything to a thrower as melee, getting closer only helps them, and sure they miss but if they kill you they just pick up there axes /spear/ lances/ n go find another guy to kill. i dont even know why people say ammo makes them balanced, logically they only lose/use the ones that get stuck in a dead guy, or his shield, other than they have a full pack.
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Well yes, that's why ive always said remove lances, they are a silly weapon with a silly amount of damage.
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Yes... and all you need to do is hit once = instakill, then pick up the lances you missed.
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Yes, throwing lances are super strong, dmg wise. They miss just as (or more) often than normal throwing weapons, and the 2 shots per stack make them a little more reasonable. People that hit you with them are good at throwing, that's really all there is to it. I miss point blank shots with throwing all the time, and lose javs into a shield.
That said, making ammo unable to be scavenged for ALL ranged weapons is really not all that unreasonable, and maybe even melee weapons too. Dance with the one you brung.
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The throwing lances while silly ... well, if he can have 16 throwing axes that take 90% of your health instead of 4 lances that take all ...
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Yes, throwing lances are super strong, dmg wise. They miss just as (or more) often than normal throwing weapons, and the 2 shots per stack make them a little more reasonable. People that hit you with them are good at throwing, that's really all there is to it. I miss point blank shots with throwing all the time, and lose javs into a shield.
That said, making ammo unable to be scavenged for ALL ranged weapons is really not all that unreasonable, and maybe even melee weapons too. Dance with the one you brung.
But removing possibility of picking up weapons would reduce fun aspect of the game greatly...
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Yes, throwing lances are super strong, dmg wise. They miss just as (or more) often than normal throwing weapons, and the 2 shots per stack make them a little more reasonable. People that hit you with them are good at throwing, that's really all there is to it. I miss point blank shots with throwing all the time, and lose javs into a shield.
That said, making ammo unable to be scavenged for ALL ranged weapons is really not all that unreasonable, and maybe even melee weapons too. Dance with the one you brung.
You can miss point blank, but how fun is it to get 1 hit killed by something unblockable, ESPECIALLY if it's a random chance?
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But removing possibility of picking up weapons would reduce fun aspect of the game greatly...
And if you accidentally dropped a weapon that would mean you couldn't get it back and would then be kicked for leeching.
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And if you accidentally dropped a weapon that would mean you couldn't get it back and would then be kicked for leeching.
True! It happens to me a lot when i let my rats to be on my table. They use to walk through my keyboard
and somehow they like to press the G button...
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Could always disable the drop feature. Why would you want to drop your weapon, if you know you can't scavenge. It'd also help with chadz's "let's make heirlooms rare and special" since you couldn't loot them and use them.
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Well i use to drop unnecesary weapons when engaging in melee. For example i drop xbow because it only slows me down...
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Just a thought:
Throwing lances: damage 60 pierce
(polearms) lances: damage 27 pierce
Why a thrown weapon would get extra power?
Same propelling arm = same strength = same damage. Doesn't it make sense?
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Just a thought:
Throwing lances: damage 60 pierce
(polearms) lances: damage 27 pierce
Why a thrown weapon would get extra power?
Same propelling arm = same strength = same damage. Doesn't it make sense?
And powerthrow 10% damage per level, powerstrike 8% per level, too. Don't forget that bit.
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And powerthrow 10% damage per level, powerstrike 8% per level, too. Don't forget that bit.
I think that disparity is because the stats are taken from Native, where you'd normally only have a handful of throwing items versus 150~ enemies.... so Tale Worlds made Power Throw really good, but in a strictly multi-player setting it can be very overpowered.
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I think that disparity is because the stats are taken from Native, where you'd normally only have a handful of throwing items versus 150~ enemies.... so Tale Worlds made Power Throw really good, but in a strictly multi-player setting it can be very overpowered.
Yes, and it's not changeable, same with powerdraw etc. So we're stuck with it as it is... native stats weren't intended for balanced multiplayer freeform character building. This makes balancing crpg a huge pain.
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Yes, and it's not changeable, same with powerdraw etc. So we're stuck with it as it is... native stats weren't intended for balanced multiplayer freeform character building. This makes balancing crpg a huge pain.
Cmp did some t(r)o(o)(l)ls to change those harcoded parts, i wish him best, even if i personally loathe him.
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I have a pure thrower, not pure in the sense of massive amounts of PT, but WPF all the way in throwing.. And ive "dumped" points into PS, i rape everyone with my katana at 1wpp sooo.. By some peoples logic here: 2handers are waaaay overpowered and needs to be nerfed asap by the simple fact that I am a pure thrower that still tears shit up in melee.
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I have a pure thrower, not pure in the sense of massive amounts of PT, but WPF all the way in throwing.. And ive "dumped" points into PS, i rape everyone with my katana at 1wpp sooo.. By some peoples logic here: 2handers are waaaay overpowered and needs to be nerfed asap by the simple fact that I am a pure thrower that still tears shit up in melee.
I'd say that "raping" people with only 1wpp needs to be nerfed, yeah, not the 2-handed weapon itself.
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I can block and kill a katana with my 1h sword, I can't do the same to a 1wpf throwing projectile.
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IT IS STUPID THROWING AXES DO MOAR DEMAGE STROWN THAN SLASHED WITH HANDS (physically way dumb)! IF YOU ARE STUPID AND IF YOU HAS OTHER OPINION - DISCUSS WITH ME!
throweres are really OP nerf them!
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Hmm i feel like throwing is going through a hard period lately. But ultimately, I think it is balanced, people got used to the early 30 (boring) seconds when all shit gets tossed out, and then the real melee starts. Although I think the amount of throws you got should be nerfed, make max ammo decrease by 1 for example. Let's not forget too that it's essentially 2handers that complain, because they don't want to spend shield points or even carry one. I'm myself a 2hander, and I adapted to the general throwing rage going on lately and bought a shield, no problems anymore, it might break once you reach the melee, but who cares, you didn't get hit early on.
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throwing weapons by itself are imo balanced. only to many people equip them for my taste - this leads to that ridiculous throwing spam before each battle.
throwing is just to effective for to few skillpoints. if throwing weapons would be limited by powerthrow or better by wpf, we wouldn't have so many throwers here, yet the dedicated throwers or really PURE hybrids (not those who take 4 pt just for fun) would keep their abilities.
some merc wrote that all weapon requirements should be based on PS(PT) and WPF rather than strength - i agree with that, it would solve a lot of balancing problems.
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guys are you really think that smth gonna be change? :)
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Throwing needs to become more accuarte with weapon points. This way players will have to put points into agility and wpm. This would prevent strength builds from being effective because they would be inaccurate. also remove lances.
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guys are you really think that smth gonna be change? :)
yes :)
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Nothing's going to happen, guys. chadz and the team have lives outside cRPG. They don't owe us anything.
They'll patch it when they're good and ready, and by the looks of it, I honestly doubt anything is going to change for a while. We can whinge and whine all we want about throwing weapons.
But it's going to stay like this for a long time. The horizontal hailstorm will keep happening for at least another month before any action is taken.
Oh hey, maybe they'll surprise us by patching that with the Strategus patch, but I doubt that.
Just sit tight and hang out behind walls and siege shields and eventually the dirty throwers will run out of stuff to throw at us.
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Nothing's going to happen, guys. chadz and the team have lives outside cRPG. They don't owe us anything.
They'll patch it when they're good and ready, and by the looks of it, I honestly doubt anything is going to change for a while. We can whinge and whine all we want about throwing weapons.
But it's going to stay like this for a long time. The horizontal hailstorm will keep happening for at least another month before any action is taken.
Oh hey, maybe they'll surprise us by patching that with the Strategus patch, but I doubt that.
Just sit tight and hang out behind walls and siege shields and eventually the dirty throwers will run out of stuff to throw at us.
Had you checked out cmp tools?
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yes :)
So naive :)
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So naive :)
Yes, you're naive. :)
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Yes, you're naive. :)
Nothing was change so far
Dream on :)
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Nothing was change so far
Dream on :)
The devs have said throwing will be nerfed.
Pwnt. :)
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Nothing's going to happen, guys. chadz and the team have lives outside cRPG. They don't owe us anything.
They'll patch it when they're good and ready, and by the looks of it, I honestly doubt anything is going to change for a while. We can whinge and whine all we want about throwing weapons.
But it's going to stay like this for a long time. The horizontal hailstorm will keep happening for at least another month before any action is taken.
Oh hey, maybe they'll surprise us by patching that with the Strategus patch, but I doubt that.
Just sit tight and hang out behind walls and siege shields and eventually the dirty throwers will run out of stuff to throw at us.
I don't think anyone was saying 'OMG DO IT NAO', so why are you hating on people for giving feedback in the Suggestions forum? If they didn't want Suggestions, there wouldn't be a forum for it.
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The devs have said throwing will be nerfed.
Pwnt. :)
Link or its a lie :)
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Link or its a lie :)
I've nothing to prove to you, buddy. Go through the dev posts yourself.
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Throwing needs to become more accuarte with weapon points. This way players will have to put points into agility and wpm. This would prevent strength builds from being effective because they would be inaccurate. also remove lances.
On the first part, that's already the way it works. Throwing is wildly inaccurate with low prof. It's hard to notice on the receiving end, but you can tell when you're the thrower. On the second, a lot of people have suggested removing throwing lances, so maybe chadz will give it some thought.
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I don't think anyone was saying 'OMG DO IT NAO', so why are you hating on people for giving feedback in the Suggestions forum? If they didn't want Suggestions, there wouldn't be a forum for it.
I'm not hating. I'm just speaking my mind. Sorry if you took it that way :(
Given the number of "nerf throwing" threads running around, I figured I'd voice my opinion that the devs will do it when they're ready.
Apologies for the offense.
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Where do throwing lances come from, are they from some osp item pack?
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Can we have some throwing item that double as reasonable melee weapon ? Weapon that is focused more on melee than on throwing ?
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Can we have some throwing item that double as reasonable melee weapon ? Weapon that is focused more on melee than on throwing ?
throwing lances work well in both melee and throwing
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Can we have some throwing item that double as reasonable melee weapon ? Weapon that is focused more on melee than on throwing ?
Yes, throwing lances work well in melee, just put points in polearms and power strike. Also, I don't think it makes sense for a weapon to be stronger in melee than throwing, I guess the higher stats of throwing are to "simulate" per say, the momentum it gains, spinning etc., or something? More than if you'd simply took a swing or thrusted.
Edit: Oh, until throwing gets fixed... WE MUST ENDURE!~
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Yes, throwing lances work well in melee, just put points in polearms and power strike. Also, I don't think it makes sense for a weapon to be stronger in melee than throwing, I guess the higher stats of throwing are to "simulate" per say, the momentum it gains, spinning etc., or something? More than if you'd simply took a swing or thrusted.
Edit: Oh, until throwing gets fixed... WE MUST ENDURE!~
Oh, not higher melee than throwing, game mechanic prevent it. Just something that have more reach and is fast enough to deal some damage. Something with say 58/63 range that have very limited stack (say 2/3 axes) and double as melee weapon (and is worse in throwing than similar frnacisca).
Or spear that is quite long(100?) and works in similar way as shortened spear (but slightly owrse), and also have stack of 1 or 2.