Bamboo Spear is longer than all of them
I am all against this 3-slot-solution.
cRPG was all about character customization and finding your very own, personal build without any restrictions.
Currently, with the 3-slot-polearms, it's like
[Create new Character] -> [Custom Character] [Spearman]
You have to click one of those. If you choose to wield something against cavalry, you automatically get pushed into a dedicated anti cavalry role, without any chance of playing something else than this.
Adding all other long polearms to this 3-slot-area would make lancer cavalry fear only ranged fighters and nothing else, because there won't be enough pikemen to counter all the cavalry on the field.
Seriously, the pikeman-class seems to be really hated by the devs. First they made the long awlpike 2hd only, then the pike was even made unable to block (mean: what the fuck?) which was too extreme even for them, so they took it back, it's unsheathable now, and now it takes 3 slots? Because people complain about pikemen as much as they do about archers or cavalry or throwers or two handers or poleaxes, and pikemen top the scoreboard as often as those other classes? :rolleyes:
I mean: are you serious?
I would agree on all polearm weapons that can be swung, like great long axes, poleaxes, halberds and whatnot, due to the unfair polearm stun, but the thrust only pikes are not so much of a problem there, I dare to say.
If anything, I would agree on lowering the speed of pikes, to make them less annoying as 2nd-row-weapon in melee. But I think the punishment of players who decide for the class which has to rely on teammates more than any other in this game exceeds any relation.
Also the best bows, best xbows, and best throwing weapons are actually 3 slots also if you count their ammunition, so why shouldn't the best support polearm weapons (and anti cav) also be included?
These weapons are still very good infantry support weapons as well as anticav weapons.
I still see a lot of players who ONLY use those weapons and nothing else and still performing very well, so the change wouldnt mean much to them.
These are the other polearms that I believe should also be 3 slots:WTF IS THIS SHIT ?
Long Awlpike
Swiss Halberd
English Bill
Heavy Lance
These polearms should be 3 slots because they are exceptional in their categories and therefore should be 3 slots to promote the use of alternative weapons in the same category. The exceptions are the Swiss and English weapons, but because of their effectiveness should also be classed with the other 3 slot weapons.
Long awlpike is the next 2 slot replacement for standard pikers and should be classed the same. The normal awlpike on the other hand is short enough to remain classed as 2 slots.
i'm neutral about making them 3 slots and against lance being 3 slot...
however any polearm OVER 150 length should be unshealthable...that would solve alot of problems
cRPG was all about character customization and finding your very own, personal build without any restrictions.
Long awlpikeHorn bow is the next 2 slot replacement for standardpikerslongbowmen and should be classed the same.
These polearms should be 3 slots because they are exceptional in their categories and therefore should be 3 slots to promote the use of alternative weapons in the same category.
Where did you get that? That might have been the case for the first few months, but I think we can safely say, that that era ended with upkeep patch. The patch that included slots was just a cherry on top IMO, because the trend always was that, while you could customize your character however you wanted, the general feel was that you shouldn't be able to fill more than one role effectively while on the battlefield. That's why we got rid of pocket pikes, sniper crossbows as sidearms etc.
You are not limited in terms of what build you wanna go, and that's fine. You are limited for a particular spawn, meaning that if you wanna spawn with a pike, you take on the anti-cav role, being the only and best weapon against cav while also being super awesome support, but will have to live the fact, that if someone will get personal with you, you will have to whip out your one hander or die miserably.
And in my opinion, that is fine too.
EIT: Rephrased.
You really seems to hate polearm users. :?
I now played pikeman some time, and although my skills are of course below average as I played only little in the last few months, I can already say that pikeman is the least rewarding class. You are everyone's bitch, all you can do is frighten cav away (without a chance of killing them) and perhaps support some melee fighters from the second line. But as soon as someone decides you're gonna have to die... you will die! If someone gets past the tip of your pike you are inevitably dead. And every noob without any idea of manual blocking can get past your tip.
And then I must read your reasoning for making the long awlpike a three slot weapon. It's basically "It's because it would be the next weaker weapon they would choose if they didn't want to waste three slots."
I mean: what kind of crappy argument is this? How about putting all spear like polearms to three slots, because once the long awlpike would be three slots you would have the awlpike, battle fork and the war spear. And so on. And so on.
It's just an invalid argument.
And upkeep/item difficulty does nothing?
A practice longsword and a flamberge take 2 slots both. A cudgel and a long espada eslavona take one slot each. How about making flamberges take 3 slots, too, and long espada taking 2? I mean: if pikemen are to be nerfed that way, what about all the other classes?
I fear you didn't calculate or even think about balance properly, you just posted a very biased view on things, and although you should have the common " 'YES' to every nerf for classes others than mine" and the general "Polearm users are are stagger glitch abusers!" - bonuses for your vote you "only" have a 60-40 majority.
Your suggestion doesn't follow the basic rule of balancing to judge things in relation to all other things in the game, you just decided to make polearms worse. Your argumentation is more than flawed. That's why I think (or better: hope, as I never know what the developers will commit next as crime) you suggestion will never be realised. In fact I hope they remove the three slots from pikes, as on EU1 with about 100 players I see only about one pike per team. Which is totally screwed in relation to its dangerousness, compared to two handed swords, halberds, bows, crossbows or horses+lance.
You are right about not beeing totally free in character choice, which is a good thing, IMHO. But you can make almost any class a hybrid, except of pikeman, because having a one handed weapon and STILL having to block manually and hide from missiles seems... crappy to me, and stands in no relation to the effectivity of a pikeman.
All classes can have viable hybrids, except of pikeman. And pikemen are everything but a strong class like 2hd infantry, cavalry or archers.
Long Awlpike is A PIKE AND ALSO SHOULD BE CLASSED THE SAME WITH ALL THE OTHER PIKES.
IT EVEN HAS THE WORD PIKE IN THE NAME<><<<><!!@<!>>!!
Amazing information isnt it, as far as its PIKE role is concerned, it is the shortest, fastest, highest damage pike class weapon in the polearm weapons group and since it is just as viable, if not more viable then other pikes, it should be treated the same.
Just to make sure its superduper clear, I will spell it out for you.
Pikes = 3 slots
Long AwlPIKE should also be 3 slots because its just as viable as the other pikes.
I don't hate polearms, I just think that there is an imbalance in their favour.
Okay, two things to answer you guys, as I believe what you say.
1.: Are those guys the measure we should balance to accordingly, making the pike (/spear), in my eyes one of the "backbone" weapons of infantry, be balanced that way to be only viable weapons for top of the notch gamers?
2.: How would those players perform with a two handed weapon, with shield and 1hd, as cavalry or as archers? Unless they would have worse results with all of those weapons (which I doubt heavily) I see no reason to especially nerf pikes and leave all other weapons as they are.
Well, then we seem to have different experiences with pikes, perhaps due to different servers? Because on EU1 you see about 1-2 pikes per team, and they are everything but the top of the scoreboard. That's all I can say from my point of view, of course, as only special server statistics could provide a better image. Perhaps it would be an idea to count the times upkeep is paid for a certain weapon, this should be trackable more easily than caused damage on the server (which I heard was untrackable at all). :? :?:
That's because the EU metagame is at least 6 months behind NA at any given time. You guys still max weapon master, don't spam long polearms, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "pro cav's" horse was still the arabian. Its no surprise when I hop on my champion cataphract and go lancing on NA_1 I feel like I am riding a modern battle tank through some Ethiopian peasant village.
Also yes, balance should be done based on top players in their class, because a new or bad player will die to anything anyways, but top players will gravitate towards OP weapons with builds to compliment them and start ripping apart servers, then soon the hordes of people will start copying them.
That's because the EU metagame is at least 6 months behind NA at any given time. You guys still max weapon master, don't spam long polearms, and I wouldn't be surprised if the "pro cav's" horse was still the arabian. Its no surprise when I hop on my champion cataphract and go lancing on NA_1 I feel like I am riding a modern battle tank through some Ethiopian peasant village.
Also yes, balance should be done based on top players in their class, because a new or bad player will die to anything anyways, but top players will gravitate towards OP weapons with builds to compliment them and start ripping apart servers, then soon the hordes of people will start copying them.