cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Banok on February 14, 2011, 05:46:54 am
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I dont think I saw anyone stack ps with barmace before me, I stole the idea from pennywise's monster pre patch mornstar build and hierloomed a barmace to make my own version which worked even with the new lvl 30 cap. Anyway its caught on now even though I didn't tell people my build all those times they asked. so now I hear barmace is being completely gimped next patch and I'm proud to admit that I am the cause of so many tears. mostly invalid tears from turtles who don't understand rock paper scissors balance, because without decent crush through weapon turtles go unchecked and become silly OP with 180 degree invincible mode. FYI crushers dont get invinciblity they get shot to death and easy spammed by decent players. I play many diff chars in cRPG including turtles and always admit if something I play is OP, like I used be say stuff like "flamberge needs a nerf" and "NI" in chat as I cut though 20 enemies in heavy armour easymode. This nerf is going to make me cry because I cant respec my hierloom or have to time to grind to 31 to hierloom something else, but it did need tweaking. but if they remove blockcrush completely seriously what will counter turtles?
PS: can I get a link to where nerf was actually announced :P
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Oh please, Barmace noobs are easy to kill. Only time you actually kill some one is if you are 2-3 people, sneak up on the victim or get lucky. Your slower then a snail you don't need nerfs you need a wheelchair. Same with Maul users long maul is harder because of range but that's it.
Barmace and all other crushthru weapons are easy to counter, its the god damn 2h with 110 spd that kills me =(
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Barmace and all other crushthru weapons are easy to counter, its the god damn 2h with 110 spd that kills me =(
Why don't you tell us which 2H that is?
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I dont know who the fuck you are but your definatly not the origional pure str bar mace user. Templar_Daymun was doing that while u were at ur mothers teet. I was also pure str pre patch as were a few templars. You are most certainly not the genesis of this so stop being so damn arrogant.
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I dont know who the fuck you are but your definatly not the origional pure str bar mace user. Templar_Daymun was doing that while u were at ur mothers teet. I was also pure str pre patch as were a few templars. You are most certainly not the genesis of this so stop being so damn arrogant.
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Highlight the hypocrisy. Im not arrogant im just stating facts.
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I cant respec my hierloom or have to time to grind to 31 to hierloom something else, but it did need tweaking. but if they remove blockcrush completely seriously what will counter turtles?
Axes?
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. but if they remove blockcrush completely seriously what will counter turtles?
Mauls, axes, throwing stuff, etc... not to mention that while it is tricky vs a competent turtle, you can damn well kill them with a sword or any normal weapon.
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Mauls, axes, throwing stuff, etc... not to mention that while it is tricky vs a competent turtle, you can damn well kill them with a sword or any normal weapon.
I try to avoid these discussions as people lobby hard, but lets analyze this post.
First of all, mauls would NOT be a counter but a liability without crush through. I'll ignore that as if it was a typo.
Axes ARE a counter. yes, they break shields.
Throwing stuff - No, not really. I WENT SHIELD to be safe from throwing and it works wonderfully. Absolutely not a counter And I say this as both a shielder and a thrower myself that they are even in a fight (a high shield skill user has an advantage).
And the very last note -- "While tricky vs a competent turtle you can kill them with a sword or normal weapon". !!!!!!! If they have equal skill you will lose the majority of the time. That is the whole god damn point of the shield. Yes, If they have lower skill I can mop them up with a sword and good feinting and holding, but not someone of equal skill.
edited because this ended up slightly off topic, But on a real note: Do you really want to make a class of weapons completely pointless and bad? They would have to do a very slight nerf -- And the only bar maces that can crushthrough well are heirloomed ones anyways. A random barmace isn't going to cruchthrough often at all unless with perfect attack form and 10+ PS.
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I also think that axes as counter against sheilds is totally fine, you don't need something more effective.
Shields should protect you when you decide to use them. It's unfair if you take it away from them with a weapon which needs absolutely no skill.
To repeat myself again: the effort/effect relation is broken concerning block crushing (BC) weapons. I grudge the BC users their kills. Go and earn them on an honest way, BC is just lame.
Make strength requirement for BC weapons 21+
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mostly invalid tears from turtles who don't understand rock paper scissors balance
Silly nubs, who don't understand that there is no rock paper scissors balance in this mod/game.
/me sighs.
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Silly nubs, who think that rock-paper-scissors is a proper way of balancing a PvP game.
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Silly nubs.
On a side note the problem really was the bar mace crushing through as cav also it was too fast for a crush through weapon.
Solved now :D
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Silly people thinking its okay to remove the opponents RMB..
The idea of a crush-through weapon is ridiculous at best, and quite frankly i cannot fathom why people would want to wield such weapons (Except teenagers obviously). There is no personal achievement or enjoyment after killing someone with a weapon that literally remove the opponents right-mouse-button, unless you are trying to cause grief.
Right now, for me, native is more fun.
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Silly people thinking its okay to remove the opponents RMB..
The idea of a crush-through weapon is ridiculous at best, and quite frankly i cannot fathom why people would want to wield such weapons (Except teenagers obviously). There is no personal achievement or enjoyment after killing someone with a weapon that literally remove the opponents right-mouse-button, unless you are trying to cause grief.
Right now, for me, native is more fun.
fail insults?
also the crush through mechanic basically counters pure agi builds like the katana weeaboos by making them actually move instead of outspeeding everyone with their swings.
if you fail against crush through you might wanna reconsider your build...
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Balton that's like me going ' HURR EVERYONE USES hurr HURR 'dribble' LONG hafHURR dribble' BLADE CUS me USE!
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fail insults?
also the crush through mechanic basically counters pure agi builds like the katana weeaboos by making them actually move instead of outspeeding everyone with their swings.
if you fail against crush through you might wanna reconsider your build...
Yes, it counters any short sword, be it 1h or 2h, as the range is longer. It is extremely tricky to fight the *heirloomed barmace + STR build" unless you have superior range and much greater athletics.
I agree that there should be a weapon suited for crushing those shielders, but problem is that barmace crush through almost everything. I'm fine with the mauls, as it is useful against shielders, but hard to use against 2h/polearm.
And quit crying that Ninjas are fast.. they sacrifice armor, str, hp, range, shield just to be fast, and use their speed to survive. 1 mistake and they go down.
(yeah banok, I'm afraid Daymun was first lol.)
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I agree that there should be a weapon suited for crushing those shielders, but problem is that barmace crush through almost everything. I'm fine with the mauls, as it is useful against shielders, but hard to use against 2h/polearm.
This is pretty much why bar mace crush is getting removed. Crush through is a very powerful ability and needs to be balanced by the lack of speed/range.
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Native crushthrough is much more rampant and brutal. I play occasionally and rhodok castles are the lords of crush every single fucken ladder has 2 maul users present ready to fuck your shit up. Besides I like to think I made the Barmace the hated thing it is today. Why? Well after patch they took alot of heirlooms from every one. This made me bitter and filled with the need to troll and troll hard indeed. I had been a nice kid pre patch using loomed armor and an axe but after patch I couldn't have both so I decided that the barmace a weapon I had used for a week with 11 powerstrike prepatch and had lulzworthy auto success was to be my new call sign. This only compounded when siege became viable way to make gold and exp so now every one had to "FIGHT ME" as opposed to run kill my team then gang rape me. Doesn't help that I convinced wallace who's playstyle was also overwhelming str to do the same. I don't think a day has past that I havent bathed in the tears of those who cry op. I still have alot of trouble with good players singing balb manowar troublesome etc any one who knows more to combat than hur dur I backpedal I swing or hur dur I run and spam. People on my Level of combat who have a good grasp of block strike and combat I find to be at a disadvantage unless their build is favorable vs mine. I have seen a couple of people like givi and panderson bring in long mauls and mauls with the intent of just having a weapon that is heavy enough to block my barmace. This tends to turn our fights in to slow motion slug fests with one of us dieing trying to chamber ussually me.
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In native you can spam a lolhammer user every time they go for an overhead. In cRPG it depends on your and the maul user's agi/wpf.
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I dont think I saw anyone stack ps with barmace before me
ha ha ha ha ha
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ha ha ha ha ha
word.
Also you guys must realise if bar mace looses crushthrough people will just start heirlooming other maces that have crush ability.
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I Couldn't careless if my barmace lost crush through currently. I would just tweak my build a bit I have my hierloomed armor again. Besides most people I kill are being slaughtered by the side swing. I save the overhead as an opener and closer for those who stubbornly survive a couple or side swings. Time is life in this game if you take 4 seconds to kill your foe you might be in a 2v1 etc so slaughtering your foes as fast as they come is a choice over the backpedal run choice. Besides in seige you have no where to backpedal. You must repel the invader back pedaling just lets him in and gives his friends a foot hold. You must hold no yield.
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Silly people thinking its okay to remove the opponents RMB..
The idea of a crush-through weapon is ridiculous at best, and quite frankly i cannot fathom why people would want to wield such weapons (Except teenagers obviously). There is no personal achievement or enjoyment after killing someone with a weapon that literally remove the opponents right-mouse-button, unless you are trying to cause grief.
This is funny.
A lot of people (including myself) cant imagine how someone could have fun playing as an archer or a 2h/polearm Ninja. A lot of people (including myself) get bored after doing this a couple of weeks.
Others think shield+1h is boring, or cavalry, and its clear to everyone that throwing is overpowered.
But its fine, different playstyles, and the goal is to find that one you have the most fun with.
What do you do with your Ninja build?
You sneak behind enemies line, and kill some from behind, at best. At worst, you are just wasting everyones time because you have travelled to the end of the map.
In 1 vs 1, against 2h/poleaxe, you block their first strike, than you spam left-right-left swings.
Against turtlers, you just spam and spam and spam and spam till the turtlers shield breaks, or he loses patience and lets down his shield.
The crushthrough lovers dont want to press left mouse button again and again and again like an idiot.
Right now, for me, native is more fun.
In native, I play with Pike and Great Hammer aka Great Maul, and its not that hard in native to collect kills this way. In native, the hammer has more reach, more speed, and the enemies dont have the athletics to backpedal like they do in crpg.
When in crpg you think/ feel crushthrough is overpowered you are just incompetent. With your high athletics, all you have to do is to get a long hafted blade (for example), strike, backpedal, strike, backpedal.
Theoretically even with your peasant cutter katana (ridiculous, talking about realism, that this shitty "sword" can cut down an armored guy or even a armored horse even with only 3 power strike in 1 or 2 hits) you can do your usual thing, spam spam spam, its only the fear factor to get 1 shotted why you die.
Against AI, the great maul would suck I guess, its only humans that get nervous when they see the great maul.
Even with my 1h I could easily kill them by simply staying out of their reach. Not that hard with enough athletics since Banok and others have only a few points in athletics otherwise they couldnt crush through with the Barmace no way.
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word.
Also you guys must realise if bar mace looses crushthrough people will just start heirlooming other maces that have crush ability.
Everything but mauls/etc is losing crushthrough afaik.
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Dont change anything at the barmace.
I dont want to fight with pike of tears again,im bored of killing everyone. :D
Barmace is absolutely not overpowered at the moment.
edit: pike of tears not pike of tears :D
pike of tears* WTF???
seems impossible to write sworrd of tears but you all know what i mean
Why it is impossible to write: sword of tears ?
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Balton that's like me going ' HURR EVERYONE USES hurr HURR 'dribble' LONG hafHURR dribble' BLADE CUS me USE!
Busted out laughing in the middle of class.
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This is funny.
A lot of people (including myself) cant imagine how someone could have fun playing as an archer or a 2h/polearm Ninja. A lot of people (including myself) get bored after doing this a couple of weeks.
Others think shield+1h is boring, or cavalry, and its clear to everyone that throwing is overpowered.
But its fine, different playstyles, and the goal is to find that one you have the most fun with.
What do you do with your Ninja build?
You sneak behind enemies line, and kill some from behind, at best. At worst, you are just wasting everyones time because you have travelled to the end of the map.
In 1 vs 1, against 2h/poleaxe, you block their first strike, than you spam left-right-left swings.
Against turtlers, you just spam and spam and spam and spam till the turtlers shield breaks, or he loses patience and lets down his shield.
The crushthrough lovers dont want to press left mouse button again and again and again like an idiot.
In native, I play with Pike and Great Hammer aka Great Maul, and its not that hard in native to collect kills this way. In native, the hammer has more reach, more speed, and the enemies dont have the athletics to backpedal like they do in crpg.
When in crpg you think/ feel crushthrough is overpowered you are just incompetent. With your high athletics, all you have to do is to get a long hafted blade (for example), strike, backpedal, strike, backpedal.
Theoretically even with your peasant cutter katana (ridiculous, talking about realism, that this shitty "sword" can cut down an armored guy or even a armored horse even with only 3 power strike in 1 or 2 hits) you can do your usual thing, spam spam spam, its only the fear factor to get 1 shotted why you die.
Against AI, the great maul would suck I guess, its only humans that get nervous when they see the great maul.
Even with my 1h I could easily kill them by simply staying out of their reach. Not that hard with enough athletics since Banok and others have only a few points in athletics otherwise they couldnt crush through with the Barmace no way.
Oh boy, here we go again...
Agree on the playstyle, its important to find something you think is fun. But please keep in mind after we remove all the superfluous stuff, cRPG boils down to a competitive game. Sure we have counters and whatnot, but before the heirloomed barmace, we never had a trump card.
Also you are wrong about the events transpiring when i meet someone with a heavier weapon (ie all other then katana users), after their first strike, my weapon gets stunned, giving me only opportunity to block. I cannot hit back after their first strike. Thats where some of the problem lies, since the barmace got the same range as katana, they stun my weapon on the first hit, then overhead. Game over.
I had more agi then strength on my previous generation, never was i able to spam someone decent, to death. They always have the opportunity to hit back after a block.
Also having experience against some of the best turtles both in native and cRPG, your comment that high agi users can just spam until their shield breaks are flawed. Any decent shield user will tell you that.
In native i play every role, some better then others. One thing i do not have trouble with in native are hammer-users. Each time they go for a overhead swing, im able to do a faster swing to the sides.
Also i dont get nervous when i see someone coming at me with great maul, it might actually turn into a good fight (burr1ck comes to mind), but when someone charges me with a barmace, well my time might be better spent making coffee.
I might be insane for arguing against someone that has not even bothered learning proper manual blocking..
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You are insane to bother replying to his posts lol.
When I read his words, my mind begins to twist.. A slight depression comes over me, and I head to the kitchen for a cigarette. Contemplating if I should answer or not.
Fact of the matter is, he is a troll, everything he writes and his playstyle was nothing but pure trolling. He gets nothing from the game itself, only from pissing off other people. I feel sorry for the people that have to encounter him in RL.
Anyway
... I'm pretty damn sure he loves to mess with the Ninjas the most. ;-)
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Nice, good to hear the devs are rebalancing the "remove opponents RMB" ability to how it should be: Slow and short. Not 92 speed and longer than most 1hers.
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I had more agi then strength on my previous generation, never was i able to spam someone decent, to death. They always have the opportunity to hit back after a block.
Annnnnnd my 21 agi build was able to deliver an overhead from a great maul before you were able to spam me, kind of broken.
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Annnnnnd my 21 agi build was able to deliver an overhead from a great maul before you were able to spam me, kind of broken.
hehe yeah i remember that, i was convinced that i was able to outspam your hammer, but in the end my skull got bashed in :(
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I lol so hard the people think the barmace is king of crush. Good thing people like peppovitch and palatro are still around who have always loved the great maul and can even wreck my shit in a battle of crushies.
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I lol so hard the people think the barmace is king of crush. Good thing people like peppovitch and palatro are still around who have always loved the great maul and can even wreck my shit in a battle of crushies.
Bar Mace: 92 Speed - 96 Range
Great Maul: 80 Speed - 68 Range
I think that what people are upset about with the bar mace is that it has good speed, range and decent damage whereas the other crush through weapons, except long iron mace, have very low speed or range. The long iron mace is very similar to the bar mace and would likely share in a nerf (otherwise people would just migrate to that).
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The long iron mace is very similar to the bar mace and would likely share in a nerf (otherwise people would just migrate to that).
It will.
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Its getting nerfed due to whine move on to next cry plz
Funny my first heirloom(pre patch, about six month ago or more when no one used it) was a bar mace and while effective its not really op till the build guarantee crush due to its weight
Of course everyone wants to use super light high speed weapons and complain that my masterwork one kg katana can't block an all str mace on a overhead but then why didn't u outdance the mace, hits don't auto connect I guess high ago sucks only because I am the only guy ingame who can dodge
Everyone waters it down and says my block doesn't work, its like a political rally(hope and change), apparently side swings are also unblockable?
There is no point argument at this stage but every class can beat a high str bar change, honestly running thru whole teams with my sword is far more lol, at least nerfing wallace and linden will indirectly boost me
Learn to bob and weave, stick and move, or just qq till they change the mechanics to suit your playstyle(or lack of style whichever may be the case)
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Dodging only works rarely, and against good players never. Aiming an overhead is much more accurate and faster than dodging with WASD.
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Dodging only works rarely, and against good players never. Aiming an overhead is much more accurate and faster than dodging with WASD.
+1
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i went 2h for 3 gens and used a great maul, it had crush through but i was only able to get the over hand off if it was A) a shield-er whos first instinct is to block, or B) a retard who trieds to block it rather than use there weapons greater reach and speed to keep me from attacking. plus i have and always will have ZERO athletics yet not once did i fight a back peddler when using my great maul, people tried to get up close n spam which, i fight either in enclosed spaces or uneven terrain where there weapons caught or glances n i over handed. But when i fought a bar mace user my only hope was they would try for B, if not they would get me .....
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i went 2h for 3 gens and used a great maul, it had crush through but i was only able to get the over hand off if it was A) a shield-er whos first instinct is to block, or B) a retard who trieds to block it rather than use there weapons greater reach and speed to keep me from attacking. plus i have and always will have ZERO athletics yet not once did i fight a back peddler when using my great maul, people tried to get up close n spam which, i fight either in enclosed spaces or uneven terrain where there weapons caught or glances n i over handed. But when i fought a bar mace user my only hope was they would try for B, if not they would get me .....
That is most likely because people didn't expect to face a retarded maulman with no athletics. Well played, sire.
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Should you NOT be dooing school work xant... tsk tsk.
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Should you NOT be dooing school work xant... tsk tsk.
I don't have school work you retard, I have TESTS. AND I AM ON A LAPTOP. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
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I don't have school work you retard, I have TESTS. AND I AM ON A LAPTOP. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
And the tests are "how to spam crpg forums" ?
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And the tests are "how to spam crpg forums" ?
No, it's an English test actually. So, one could argue that I am in fact practicing.
Also you're Watched ha ha ha.
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I don't belive you. I think you're saying that so you can have an affair with Mokk behind my back. :(
Back on topic
Barmace, it's a stupid weapon now that you can heirloom it so you get more crush through on such a long fast weapon :( either make it hell of alot slower, remove crush through or shorten it alot and reduce chance of crush through.
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That was the crappiest tie-in to a topic I've ever seen, Siiem. Cmpxmy old friend already said that Barmace will have crushthrough removed, /thread.
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That was the crappiest tie-in to a topic I've ever seen, Siiem. Cmpxmy old friend already said that Barmace will have crushthrough removed, /thread.
So you and Mok do have an affair... WELL WE ARE DONE. OVER.
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Stop spamming, man.
Barmace will still be a cool weapon that dosent afraid of anything when it only has knockdown.
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Stop spamming, man.
Barmace will still be a cool weapon that dosent afraid of anything when it only has knockdown.
I'd go practice some more before those tests if I were you.
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I'd go practice some more before those tests if I were you.
Troll points! Troll points for everyone!
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I'd go practice some more before those tests if I were you.
Indeed, so would i.
Well, actually i wouldn't, but you definitely should!
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Indeed, so would i.
Well, actually i wouldn't, but you definitely should!
Stop spamming, dude.
And I wouldn't talk mr. pTx "gramur" lastnamehere.
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well for a start without crush through bar mace is vastly in-superior to the long iron mace (no stab), so that at very least needs looking in to since before the lack of stab didn't matter.
other mauls are only really effective vs shielders who are noob or occupied fighting other enemies. and it sucks having to carry a 9 weight weapon as a secondary.
bonus vs shield weaps are the only way to go now I guess even tho its not a counter to 180 degree INVINCIBILITY it simply means they get less time in that mode.
I suggest "bonus vs shield" added to barmace like with morning star. even tho it will be in-superior to the poleaxe which has more range, a horse owning stab and is "balanced".
@lisa and co, how could I play crusher? because I got sick of losing to turtles even though I manual block 10+ of their attacks and all they do is hold RMB and win. I play everything even turtles (turtle prolly most boring class). I dont understand personally how anyone could play the same char all the time, even a ninja gets boring.
PS: I give crushers a bad name atm because I seem to have forgotten how to play.
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@lisa and co, how could I play crusher? because I got sick of losing to turtles even though I manual block 10+ of their attacks and all they do is hold RMB and win. I play everything even turtles (turtle prolly most boring class). I dont understand personally how anyone could play the same char all the time, even a ninja gets boring.
PS: I give crushers a bad name atm because I seem to have forgotten how to play.
Sorry, i was raging at some turk crush-through guy when i wrote the post, did not mean to be that harsh. But i do find the weapon and the crush-t very lame from my duelists point of view.
Got alts and native when i get bored of my ninja character, been some time since ive played crush-through tho. Atm i have my ninja, archer and turtle:p
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Meh, its only really powerful in siege mode anyways and who takes siege mode seriously?
Oh, I know. The people who spent all their heirloom points on the barmace and wear full plate so they can stand at the top of the stairs and crush through on peasants :lol:
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Heirloomed Barmace. 5 PS, 180 WPF. 92 speed. 24 agility. Not more to say really.
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well for a start without crush through bar mace is vastly in-superior to the long iron mace (no stab), so that at very least needs looking in to since before the lack of stab didn't matter.
other mauls are only really effective vs shielders who are noob or occupied fighting other enemies. and it sucks having to carry a 9 weight weapon as a secondary.
bonus vs shield weaps are the only way to go now I guess even tho its not a counter to 180 degree INVINCIBILITY it simply means they get less time in that mode.
I suggest "bonus vs shield" added to barmace like with morning star. even tho it will be in-superior to the poleaxe which has more range, a horse owning stab and is "balanced".
@lisa and co, how could I play crusher? because I got sick of losing to turtles even though I manual block 10+ of their attacks and all they do is hold RMB and win. I play everything even turtles (turtle prolly most boring class). I dont understand personally how anyone could play the same char all the time, even a ninja gets boring.
PS: I give crushers a bad name atm because I seem to have forgotten how to play.
I love how everyone just hates that shields actually shield people. It's such a travesty that shields shield shielders.
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I usually whine more often then not, but shields do just what they're supposed to. Perfectly balanced I'd say.
Throwers however are the most op things I have ever seen on cRPG :c (above statement)
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Sorry but using 2h blunt requires you to be good overhead strikers that's it! Sooooo cheap, don't be proud of using this style. Gimp it!