cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 04:40:03 pm

Title: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 04:40:03 pm
I've been playing c-rpg for about 4 months now, and it's a really enjoyable mod.  However, after certain patches, the upkeep costs for even moderate gear have become un-coverable.

I refuse to play this any longer - the devs guys merely exaggerated a problem that already existed - High level, super-long term players can run around in full plate without an issue, while people who are relatively new to the game have to run around in sub-par gear all the time.  The result is a few awesome players that get 20 and 1 KD ratios, and then the rest of us who are merely fodder.

You can call this what you will - a rant, a whine, etc.  But I refuse to play a game where I can't even play with the gear that I own consistently.

And before anyone says "Sell a loom point" - go screw - there's no reason I should have to sell a point that takes so god-awful long to accrue, simply so I can use my gear.

I'm done.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Braeden on November 10, 2011, 04:46:22 pm
Roger that.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 04:48:46 pm
As melee, I have never ever had to consider upkeep when deciding what I want to wear. And my usual amount of gold is 3000, as I keep buying new stuff and then selling it to buy something else. So yeah, I think your rant is exaggerated, rather than the upkeep.

Anyhow, adios.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Troyicide on November 10, 2011, 04:51:27 pm
yeap when your gear is costing over 25k and such its harder for you to make money. If it wasn't this way it would be tin can city
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: chadz on November 10, 2011, 04:56:40 pm
I'll change it right away.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 04:59:33 pm
Laff - chadz, you can be flip all you want sir - but the fact is more than a few folks feel this way. 

It's not me that's going to lose players.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: chadz on November 10, 2011, 05:02:22 pm
And more than a few folks feel the otherway.
Welcome to crpg.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Kalp on November 10, 2011, 05:03:02 pm
Upkeep is fine.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Wookimonsta on November 10, 2011, 05:04:06 pm
WHAAAAA
LOOK AT ME! I SUCK SO HARD I CANNOT UPKEEP MY ITEMS! AND WITHOUT MY ITEMS I SUCK EVEN HARDER!
WHAAAA

Fixed
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 10, 2011, 05:05:26 pm
The total cost of all my gear is 87k and I still break even or only lose less than 5k gold a day. If anything upkeep costs are still too low.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:05:33 pm
And while you're at it, take out banner balance, because that also does nothing but creates a great deal of in-equality as well.  How many nights do I log on, and stay consistently at 1X because the entire other team is some 'super-clan'

I'm trying to be constructive, but geez man - I've had it with broken gear all the time.  I'm not going to waste my time at a game where I consistently suck because I can't play enough to maintain my gear.

And it's not like I don't understand where you're coming from, being a developer myself.  It's not easy to balance.  I'm just letting you know that I feel your recent attempt at balance did nothing but screw newer people in your fine, fine mod.

I'm sorry you're bored with the compaints, but maybe you ought to have a look at them instead of getting bored.  Obviously I'm not the only one with these problems.

I ride a rouncy, use a light crossbow/bolts, and have a sword in board in chain gear.  That's hardly over-powered.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:07:14 pm
Btw - this is Release_Arrows (sorry forgot to add my in-game name)

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:07:41 pm
Get a money stack pal.

Like 50-75k.

Then, laugh in the face of upkeep.

I agree about the balance part though, current balancing is retarded, banner or not.
And it's been like this since months, made me play a lot less, it seems that devs don't care about the lousy balancing method.
'Working as inteded', I guess.

Also:

Jim

Jim

New Idlewind/wild incoming.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Bulzur on November 10, 2011, 05:12:05 pm
So... if someone has a 20/1 score, then it's DEFINITELY because of his items, and not cause of his skill, hey ?

Has it ever occured to you, that "old" players also have more refined skills than new ones, and that it's, probably, the main reason they can top the scoreboard.

I can use a 40k gear without loosing money, and while still having good stats. (even though i'm a rambo archer who loves going into melee, just like my master, Tenne)

If one thing is wrong, it's the mentality of the market place, or how to sell one loompoint for 450k and be in heavy gear for 2 all other generations.

Upkeep is too low to deal with some very-rich-and-abusing-it-people. But at least, it's better to have a few known "banks", than just everyone in plated gear.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 10, 2011, 05:13:08 pm
Not counting looms, my polearm character has an upkeep of 41 or 43K... Makes money.

You know that if you play native, due to having to earn your gear hard and slow then lose it next match... It is even harder to use mid gear or god help you high?

Thank you for your feedback, I hope your next game is more fun.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tuonela on November 10, 2011, 05:14:04 pm
I'm trying to be constructive

 :?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Templar_Ratigan on November 10, 2011, 05:17:03 pm
I used to run around in silly gear before the upkeep patch and I have continued to do so after it, in fact I will go on doing it.

HURRAH FOR SILLY!!!
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Teeth on November 10, 2011, 05:17:49 pm
40k actual gear cost, I make money. I am in heavy armor and use an expensive ass sword. Only horsemen have to use kinda crappy gear to survive repairs. Still made money with 50k gear as a horseman though. You are either a major platewhore or you play siege all the time.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:19:44 pm
Alright uber-folks, I know that it's fun to troll, but I'm being serious - There is a balance problem, and just about anyone who is relatively new to the game can see it.  It's not like I haven't given it a fair chance - and this is the only place I know to express these doubts.  I'm currently 4th gen.

No doubt skill very much comes into the game - however, when you're faced with an opponent with full MW gear all the time with a bank account so large that it doesn't matter, skill is also quite mitigated.  And when you come up against an entire clan of folks like this, well, you might as well not even bother.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 05:21:31 pm
Prove that there is a balance problem.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Teeth on November 10, 2011, 05:21:38 pm
What gear do you use that you cant upkeep it?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:23:20 pm
Prove that there is a balance problem.

All the cavalry on one side.
All the ranged roof/hillhuggers are on one side.
All the clans are on one side, vs randoms matches.
Shitton of 5-0, 5-1 matches.

Enough?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Blueberry Muffin on November 10, 2011, 05:25:04 pm
Join a clan, problem solved.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 05:25:20 pm
All the cavalry on one side.
All the ranged roof/hillhuggers are on one side.
All the clans are on one side, vs randoms matches.
Shitton of 5-0, 5-1 matches.

Enough?

All of those are caused by upkeep now?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: MaHuD on November 10, 2011, 05:25:51 pm
I am an archer and I have severe trouble in making money. from first gen lvl 1 to lvl 30 I have finaly reached 30k of gold.
That includes a donation of 20k from CoWorm to get my equipment.
Is it intended to earn so few money? If so, then how do people have money to buy loom points anyway?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:29:10 pm
Warlord - that's just stupid.  And obviously points out there's a balance problem if people have to scam a clan banner to break even.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 10, 2011, 05:29:34 pm
I am an archer and I have severe trouble in making money. from first gen lvl 1 to lvl 30 I have finaly reached 30k of gold.
That includes a donation of 20k from CoWorm to get my equipment.
Is it intended to earn so few money? If so, then how do people have money to buy loom points anyway?

Let me guess, you use the best bow (one of the top) and the best arrows...
Well yeah use the best gear and it is supposed to be hard to make money.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Braeden on November 10, 2011, 05:30:09 pm
I ride a rouncy, use a light crossbow/bolts, and have a sword in board in chain gear.  That's hardly over-powered.

I have no idea how you lose money with that.  I use an arabian warhorse, light crossbow, steel bolts and a longsword and generally stay pretty even/make money.  My armor is probably cheaper, but not that much cheaper.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:30:16 pm
Upkeep is no problem unless you think you want to play with the Panzerhorse and Plated armor.
Just get a stack of money for 'rainy' days.

All of those are caused by upkeep now?

No. I'm talking about team balance.

Also that banner stealing my old friendgorty is just hilarious. I understand banner balance, why was it introduced, it's a nice concept. What we need is a system to separate clans from other players, somehow. This current 'lul many *insert clan here* are on, let's change banners and milk x5' mentality is just retarded.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Arrowblood on November 10, 2011, 05:31:07 pm
And so starts the END of crpg.



(click to show/hide)



Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Blondin on November 10, 2011, 05:31:09 pm
4th gen you should have plenty of gold, you must do something wrong.

I never had so much money since the upkeep patch, and I'm a casual player.

I don't want to troll you, but what do you suggest to solve this problem? I can tell you that before upkeep old players had a bigger advantage over new players, upkeep is one of the best thing that happens to cRPG
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:32:05 pm
why is it stupid? I´m clanless atm and I use mostly byzantium banner (because I like it), but when I see one clan (like nords) owning the server, I switch my banner. Wheres the problem?

Simple. You hop into their colours just in the favour of milking the stupid multiplier.
They leave, other clan starts to own, you switch to their colours like a treacherous snake, and milk the multiplier even more.
That's top grade abooz of the feature.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 05:32:43 pm
No. I'm talking about team balance.

I thought this thread was about upkeep.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:33:23 pm
Literally, I use no more gear than would be considered "mid grade" An arabian cav sword, a plate shield, a rouncy, light crossbow, bolts, a heraldic tunic, medium strange greaves, a kettle hat, and mail gauntlets.

I'm using pretty much a light/mid-grade load out - nothing more.  But one bad night (which there are lots because of banner balance) kills my bank account and all my gear breaks.

I've been wondering too - how the hell anyone affords 400K for a loom point too - because unless you play in cloth with a wooden stick for like 2 gens, you can't even remotely afford that.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:33:42 pm
I thought this thread was about upkeep.

He brought up bannerbalance at.. one of his posts, with strange arguments, but I can see why he says that.

I just corrected it a little bit, said what I feel about the situation.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 10, 2011, 05:35:18 pm
What is your wpf for the crossbow and sword? Break chance is related to that now.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: MaHuD on November 10, 2011, 05:37:50 pm
Let me guess, you use the best bow (one of the top) and the best arrows...
Well yeah use the best gear and it is supposed to be hard to make money.
Saranid outfit, tatar bow, normal arrows?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:38:38 pm
111 for crossbow and 121 for one hand.  But the damn horse breaks more than anything else by a longshot.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: dynamike on November 10, 2011, 05:40:24 pm
Warlord - that's just stupid.  And obviously points out there's a balance problem if people have to scam a clan banner to break even.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 05:40:29 pm
Horses are supposed to be expensive and hard to upkeep. You'd be doing fine without a hawrse.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:42:21 pm
Horses are supposed to be expensive and hard to upkeep. You'd be doing fine without a hawrse.

This.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: LordBerenger on November 10, 2011, 05:42:40 pm
What is your wpf for the crossbow and sword? Break chance is related to that now.

That's no ToD avatar  :?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 05:47:11 pm
That's no ToD avatar  :?

Exactly my thoughts.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:53:50 pm
In any regard, this is my observation over the last few months.  Longer-term folks can mock it all they want, but after playing as many games as I have over the years, I can sort of see imbalance when it occurs.  I'm sure others of you can see it too.

The game has ceased to be fun - how about that as a basic response? - because I can't ever use my gear consistently.  That about sums it up rant-free.

Thanks for the time, and chadz - I really am bringing this up so you can analyze what's going on on your end - as the dev, you have those powers over the database to run some queries and check it out mathematically.  If you feel that it's fine, please leave it in place.  It is my opinion that it's not fine - but I'm not the dev.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Hobb on November 10, 2011, 05:57:35 pm
In any regard, this is my observation over the last few months.  Longer-term folks can mock it all they want, but after playing as many games as I have over the years, I can sort of see imbalance when it occurs.  I'm sure others of you can see it too.

NERD

Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:58:12 pm
Troll!
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 05:58:25 pm
The "..after playing as many games as I have over the years, I can sort of see imbalance when it occurs" thing is extremely stupid. And arrogant.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on November 10, 2011, 05:59:31 pm
You're not dev and you don't have the experience of this mod since half and a year, you make statement about a 4 month experience, you don't know how it was at the begining, how it turns when many many ppl joined the fun, how it was without upkeep and how it would be without upkeep.

And if you think that higher gear will give you better k/d then you should understand why upkeep is here.

Jimwild
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 05:59:47 pm
Say what you want, Xant.  I'm also a programmer.  And you know what I'm talking about if you've played more than 2 or three games consistently.  Don't be obtuse simply to be disagreeable.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: dynamike on November 10, 2011, 06:00:40 pm
So its scamming when a clanless players changes his banner from time to time? Oh yes, permaban me please.

Wat?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 06:03:11 pm
I've said my piece - rant away guys.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leshma on November 10, 2011, 06:03:31 pm
Simple. You hop into their colours just in the favour of milking the stupid multiplier.
They leave, other clan starts to own, you switch to their colours like a treacherous snake, and milk the multiplier even more.
That's top grade abooz of the feature.

Yeah it's abuse, but that feature (banner balance) sux anyways so why should I care?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 10, 2011, 06:04:17 pm
Say what you want, Xant.  I'm also a programmer.  And you know what I'm talking about if you've played more than 2 or three games consistently.  Don't be obtuse simply to be disagreeable.

Hahahah.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: dynamike on November 10, 2011, 06:04:56 pm
Lies.

NO U
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Oberyn on November 10, 2011, 06:05:06 pm
Any type of load-out with an arabian horse can't be considered mid tier in upkeep cost, unless you ride naked with just a weapon, and even then the random 1540 gold hurts bad. Cav is sposed to be expensive unfortunately.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Skysong on November 10, 2011, 06:13:43 pm
Not sure about the upkeeps but autobalance needs to be improved.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/6/mb77v.jpg/

Was good xp for me though  :twisted:
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 10, 2011, 06:18:36 pm
. stop using your horse every single map.

. Bring it out on specific maps, ones that are GOOD for cav. Stop riding it 100% of the time on hill infested, roof camping, village maps.

. Raise a cash buffer

. ride your horse 100% of the time and be a noble.



Gen 4 should have lots of money, stop wasting it on women and booze!

Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Okkam on November 10, 2011, 06:24:14 pm
. stop using your horse every single map.

He is horse crossbowman. What would you expect?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 06:25:27 pm
He is horse crossbowman. What would you expect?

To Adapt, get off the damn horse until he gets a stack of gold to maintain his full gear.

Duh.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on November 10, 2011, 06:25:57 pm
He is horse crossbowman. What would you expect?

I'm a spacemarine, but i can't use my jetpack in this mod, i quit.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Okkam on November 10, 2011, 06:30:45 pm
To Adapt, get off the damn horse until he gets a stack of gold to maintain his full gear.

Duh.


But how he can dismount - there are mob of angry killers with 20\1 KD, waiting for him.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Latrinenkobold on November 10, 2011, 06:39:00 pm
the upkeep system is good as it is now...no!its totally
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Oberyn on November 10, 2011, 06:40:04 pm
Then maybe it means pure horse crossbowman builds are not viable? In any case he has a nice amount of 1h wpf as well, so prob some athletics too. He's a 1h/crossbow hybrid when on foot, not as effective as full foot crossbow, but he can still survive. Just like a inf/cav hybrid when dehorsed can still be effective even if he's not a full inf build.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 10, 2011, 06:42:26 pm

But how he can dismount - there are mob of angry killers with 20\1 KD, waiting for him.

Look down at horse, press F

He has 1h wpf, he can fight.

Granted, if he can block anything, but that's not the game's fault.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Lizard_man on November 10, 2011, 06:49:59 pm
Well, the only problems i've had with upkeep was when i was playing as cavalry, i hit an all time low of 8,000, since i've switched to infantry, i can maintain all my armour and weapons with no problems at all, but saying that, i don't make much money, i'm up and down around the same amount of gold, but i can wear my gear constantly with no problems at all...
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 10, 2011, 06:50:39 pm
Saranid outfit, tatar bow, normal arrows?

That is beyond strange then. I use a more expensive get up and make more money :/
I usually play battle though.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 10, 2011, 06:53:43 pm
He is horse crossbowman. What would you expect?


Doesn't matter what you are, could be a god damn pixie-elf-dwarf from fairy-land it doesn't matter if you can't afford repair bills on your equip, stop using it, get some cash, then start using it. Same reason why polearm/2h aren't in heaviest armor 100% of the time, it costs you a butt load of cash to repair so they use it sparingly or have saved up a cash barrier that allows them to spit in the face of upkeep and repair bills.(for a little while at least)

With a horse you can bring it out on good cav maps and keep it in the stable for the crappy cav maps, as opposed to riding it around on hilly mountain maps.

Rouncey is only 9k, shouldn't be too hard to upkeep if you don't use it every single round. Considering as a 2h my weapon costs more to upkeep than that horse does & I use it nearly every single round.


Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leshma on November 10, 2011, 06:54:27 pm
Tbh upkeep is stupid. It only shows that they are incompetent to properly balance this mod.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Sawbone on November 10, 2011, 07:03:47 pm
Upkeep can get annoying to say the least. Especially for a new player.

How about reducing the cost for non-loomed items? Keep the same upkeep for loomed ones? Would help create that cushion for the first few gens.

Anyways, if this can help - I found out that i tend to make more money with medium gear than cloth armor, since i live much longer and can sometimes actually help my team win a few rounds by being, at least, a decoy.

PS - Agreed that horses are not fit for new players, sold mine because i could not upkeep it and just decided to forget about cavalry for a few gens.

Cheers,
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 10, 2011, 07:04:02 pm
Tbh upkeep is stupid. It only shows that they are incompetent to properly balance this mod.

So do what everyone else does, and the better your gear the higher your required character level, and only similar character levels can play together? No thanks.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Nagasoup on November 10, 2011, 07:08:59 pm
Upkeep works, just don't be stupid with your money. You use crossbow and bolts, expensive 1h and expensive shield, helmet, chest, gloves and boots, and on top of that A HORSE. Sure its all medium gear, but you're carrying a lot of different items and they add up.

This is what I did when I played cav.

x1 light armor on foot, 1h weapon, crappy shield
x2 medium armor on foot, 1h weapon, medium shield
x3 medium armor on horse, 1h weapon, medium shield
x4 heavy armor on armoured horse, 1h weapon, good shield
x5 heavy armor on armoured horse, 1h weapon, good shield, xbow or a lance

I ALWAYS made money if I upgraded my gear depending on multiplier.

And you're 4th gen, how are you a new player? By 4th gen you should have at least a few hundred thousand in the bank, unless you blew it all on looms, or was stupid and didn't manage your money right. If so, you deserve to be poor.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Lars on November 10, 2011, 07:10:53 pm
I just did a quick calculation, and the cost of your equip is almost 40K gold (39437 to be precise,assuming that you have  the cheapest heraldic mail armor  and normal xbow bolts, not the steel one)  and you are using a light crossbow and a 1h weapon with low proficiency(higher break chance), no wonder you can't gain money easily.

Your Equip:
Kettle Hat = 1936 gold , cheapest heraldic mail armor  = 6375, mail gauntlets = 3427, strange greaves = 880, arabian cavalry sword= 6900, plate covered round shield = 4156, Rouncey = 9010, light crossbow+bolts= 6753(6560+193) 
Total 39437

Get rid of the light crossbow(which is almost useless) and the horse ( Imo you could even get a heavier armor and helm ), just don't go over  30K worth of equip, put 140/150 wpf in 1h (5 or 6 weapon master) and you will gain money easily.
if you stop using the horse and the crossbow you will save 15763 gold, the  cost of your equip will be only 23674 gold

I'm a high generation nerd and my equip is worth 28331 gold, and i have quite good equip : guard helmet, light kuyak, scale gauntlets, brown kite shield, nordic war sword(or military pick), splinted leather greaves over mail.
Thank god horses are not for everyone, or there would be more cav players than infantry like in "mercenaries" mod. 
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: San on November 10, 2011, 07:12:25 pm
And while you're at it, take out banner balance, because that also does nothing but creates a great deal of in-equality as well.  How many nights do I log on, and stay consistently at 1X because--



Hold it. I think this is your problem. Once you get better at the game, you will help your team achieve a constant higher multiplier. Once this happens, you will be able to make money on much more equipment.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Nessaj on November 10, 2011, 07:32:19 pm
And while you're at it, take out banner balance

Someone missed the point of this game entirely (+ doesn't know what servers do not use banner balance).

All you anti-social no-friend living-in-a-bubble guys can just GTFO of this game imo. Either suck it up and try to be a human being or go play some emo single-player/PVE game.

I for one love that crpg/warband isn't something you just play, in general I dislike the whole crowd of gamers that need everything served on a silver-platter, please go ruin another game, not this one.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Engine on November 10, 2011, 07:35:48 pm
Sorry OP, I have to disagree with you. In my 80k 1h/shield infantry equipment, I will lose money slowly.

I just leveled to 30 again after resetting with about 10k. While leveling again I usually about 30k-40k of equipment, and when I hit 30 I was at 80k. I'm not in a clan, and don't use a common banner.

I highly recommend that you work up a buffer of cash, then play with whatever gear you. Then you'll have no worries and can wear low-end gear for moneymaking only when you want to.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: rustyspoon on November 10, 2011, 07:37:47 pm
Honestly I think there are only three ways you will have problems with upkeep in this game:

1. You ride a horse.
2. You use gear that you don't have WPF in.
3. You do stupid things with your money.

First off, newbies go 25 levels without upkeep. That's plenty of time to save up a good chunk of money as long as you don't blow it on crap. It is hilariously easy to make money in this mod. My main uses about 35k in gear and I make a shit-ton of money. Hell, even one of my alts has 400k in the bank.

If you are having problems with upkeep, you are doing something wrong.

Oh, also about banner balance. I'm not a fan of banner balance. It's no fun to be on the team that rolls the other team all the time 'cause of your clanmates. It's also not fun to be on the team that's getting rolled due to another clan. I've always thought that strat should be for playing with your clanmates and the pubs should be about proper balance. I think I'm in the minority on this one though.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on November 10, 2011, 07:38:41 pm
Hold it. I think this is your problem. Once you get better at the game, you will help your team achieve a constant higher multiplier. Once this happens, you will be able to make money on much more equipment.

Sadly , no amount of skills can make you win versus armies of clans stack on the same team ,  especially when BB put you vs clans all the time

This form of balance is twisted and evil and you guys in clans need to remove the clan homer glasses 

People  dont take into consideration that playing on 1x all the time you dont make money regardless of your gear

clan stack and play on 5x all the time : even a full plated user can make money

a pubbie that refuse to change banner as a cheap solution and fights clans all the time :  mostly on 1x no money !

to the original poster : this is a battle you cant win , i stopped fighting about BB a while ago , its working as intended (lulz)

Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 10, 2011, 08:02:12 pm
I'll chime in one last time - but the poster above makes my point precisely.

Yes, if I were consistently getting something other than X1, I probably wouldn't have a huge problem with up-keep.  As it is, my gold drains pretty slowly and my gear remains partially repaired. 

But the fact is the last upkeep change, plus the relentless banner-balance screws people and pretty much ensures they're not going to see anything but X1 the entire night, unless they were lucky enough to be placed on the heavy-clan team.

It's not just black and white, the way some of the trolls in here (or some of the clan players that can't see past the fact they are in a clan that is consistently on server, and is consistently winning) are making it out to be.  It's just not.

So like I said, take it as a whine, or whatever, but according to my experiences there is a problem somewhere in the balance and upkeep mechanics that greatly benefit the already-strong.

chadz - I'm curious as to your response, and if you have more to add.

Jim
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Teeth on November 10, 2011, 08:04:19 pm
Yeah well teamplay wins, as it should be. If you are losing, start teamplaying, join a clan.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tzar on November 10, 2011, 08:06:09 pm
I dont find it to be an issue atm but you gotta have a huge gold buffer for em silly days where u just lose tons of gold  :wink:

If some few people Cough!! Cough!! Georges Cough!!   wanna run around in full plate armor swining a flamberge but paying the price by retiring and selling loom points let him idc.....


But the upkeep could use a new system where it doenst just pick random items somedays you just out of luck and repair your FX plate mittens x7 times in a row.......

My record is x8 times in a row atm  :shock:

So even with total worth of gear say 30k you still not safe for some random upkeep shitstorm  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on November 10, 2011, 08:20:40 pm
Yeah well clanstack using TS wins, as it should be. If you are losing, start teamplaying, join a clan.

Fixed that for you

teamplaying as nothing to do with clans , of course the clans will win as its far easier to do teamplay that way
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Blondin on November 10, 2011, 08:39:35 pm
I always thincked that i'm average player, but damm i'm clanless and i make money, i must be good then.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Nessaj on November 10, 2011, 08:51:30 pm
Perhaps you should play on the servers without banner balance then, problem solved, why bother the rest of us? If you remove banner balance 80% of this mod would stop playing.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: SixThumbs on November 10, 2011, 09:10:28 pm
"Perhaps you should play on the servers without people, problem solved, why bother the rest of us? If you remove banner balance 80% of this mod would stop playing."
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Mala on November 10, 2011, 09:22:50 pm
...

But the upkeep could use a new system where it doenst just pick random items somedays you just out of luck and repair your FX plate mittens x7 times in a row.......

My record is x8 times in a row atm  :shock:

So even with total worth of gear say 30k you still not safe for some random upkeep shitstorm  :mrgreen:

And how many times they were not broken?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on November 10, 2011, 09:32:08 pm
I've been playing c-rpg for about 4 months now, and it's a really enjoyable mod.  However, after certain patches, the upkeep costs for even moderate gear have become un-coverable.

I refuse to play this any longer - the devs guys merely exaggerated a problem that already existed - High level, super-long term players can run around in full plate without an issue, while people who are relatively new to the game have to run around in sub-par gear all the time.  The result is a few awesome players that get 20 and 1 KD ratios, and then the rest of us who are merely fodder.

You can call this what you will - a rant, a whine, etc.  But I refuse to play a game where I can't even play with the gear that I own consistently.

And before anyone says "Sell a loom point" - go screw - there's no reason I should have to sell a point that takes so god-awful long to accrue, simply so I can use my gear.

I'm done.

Jim

this is my default loadout... i can say i use it every round and i'm actually able to gain money (very slowly tho).

Klappvisier
Lordly green rus cuirass
Lordly plate mittens
Splinted leather boots
Mighty Morningstar
Medium wooden ladder

Default equipment
Armor: 52h 72b 49l Cost: 66,064 gold Slots: 4/4

So, there is a issue with you playing in x1 most of the time, playing a build with very low WPF, or you hope to stay in blackarmor+horse all day long... then yes, maybe you can't upkeep it.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Penitent on November 10, 2011, 09:56:27 pm
I have a hard time making gold too.  I can break even (seemingly) with like 40k worth of stuff on a 1h/shield build.  If I'm under that I make money for sure.  If I try to use anything too fancy (plate mittens, or bring an xbow too many rounds) then I get hit too hard and have to stop for a while.

What helps is the marketplace.  Sure, you can sell loompoints and get a big influx, and then buy a cheaper loom with the money, but that's not what I mean.  I consistently trade on the market while I'm levelling, and it really helps my income.  Out of every few trades I may make 10k or 20k (or more!) and it really helps.  Or you can sell your loom, buy a cheaper one, and try to sell it for more money.  Do that a few times and it really helps supplement your income!

Yes, you may get burned a few times (buying an item too high, or having to sell it too low) but then you learn what the items are worth.  It's really fun! :)

Example:  I am gen 4, but I have 5 gens worth of looms.  :D  This is all from trading, selling, and re-trading my way up!  Plus I've got a nice buffer for upkeep.

Try the market dood...it's like a game within a game.  Also, the more people that participate, the funner it is!

edit: ALSO i've tried like every good 1h weapon in loomed form.  Trading around lets you try all kinds of shit.  Fun as hell.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on November 10, 2011, 10:09:34 pm
Sell a loompoint
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: CoWorm on November 10, 2011, 10:57:11 pm
I was thinking about making a thread with this exact topic myself actually, but aiming more in the upkeep is still too low direction. Still to many cans and heavy horses out and about, and would love to see average gear level a tad bit lower.

Also, MaHuD, stop using that Steel Pick you have close to 0 proficiency in and maybe you make some more money  :P
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gnjus on November 10, 2011, 11:01:11 pm
If some few people Cough!! Cough!! Georges Cough!!   wanna run around in full plate armor swining a flamberge but paying the price by retiring and selling loom points let him idc.....


Sorry but Georges doesn't need to retire & sell loom points to afford his full shiny plate cause he was born with it and he'll probably die in it (unless someone stabs him while he's naked & shagging)......

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Kafein on November 10, 2011, 11:11:34 pm
Any melee with mid armor complaining about upkeep is like someone complaining his apple fell from the table while someone else has no drinking water.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leshma on November 10, 2011, 11:13:54 pm
Perhaps you should play on the servers without banner balance then, problem solved, why bother the rest of us? If you remove banner balance 80% of this mod would stop playing.

What about strategus?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Kafein on November 10, 2011, 11:16:02 pm
I have a hard time making gold too.  I can break even (seemingly) with like 40k worth of stuff on a 1h/shield build.  If I'm under that I make money for sure.  If I try to use anything too fancy (plate mittens, or bring an xbow too many rounds) then I get hit too hard and have to stop for a while.

What helps is the marketplace.  Sure, you can sell loompoints and get a big influx, and then buy a cheaper loom with the money, but that's not what I mean.  I consistently trade on the market while I'm levelling, and it really helps my income.  Out of every few trades I may make 10k or 20k (or more!) and it really helps.  Or you can sell your loom, buy a cheaper one, and try to sell it for more money.  Do that a few times and it really helps supplement your income!

Yes, you may get burned a few times (buying an item too high, or having to sell it too low) but then you learn what the items are worth.  It's really fun! :)

Example:  I am gen 4, but I have 5 gens worth of looms.  :D  This is all from trading, selling, and re-trading my way up!  Plus I've got a nice buffer for upkeep.

Try the market dood...it's like a game within a game.  Also, the more people that participate, the funner it is!

edit: ALSO i've tried like every good 1h weapon in loomed form.  Trading around lets you try all kinds of shit.  Fun as hell.

That actually worked very well in the first months of the marketplace. Back then one could easily do 100k of profit with two deals. But now that the marketplace is invaded by us traders and the majority of players are decently informed, you can't make much. Typically 10% profit out of invested money after a few days.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Maximus101 on November 10, 2011, 11:18:41 pm
Naa mate. It is fine and the way it Should be. This way you really have to earn the elephant horse and the almost indestructible armour. Without it everyone would have it. I reckon upkeep is fine EXCEPT from in DTV... I have lost about 50k playing that.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Penitent on November 11, 2011, 12:33:11 am
That actually worked very well in the first months of the marketplace. Back then one could easily do 100k of profit with two deals. But now that the marketplace is invaded by us traders and the majority of players are decently informed, you can't make much. Typically 10% profit out of invested money after a few days.

You can still do ok though..but it is harder now you are right.

That's why I'm trying to get more people using the market!  It was way more fun when items were moving around.  Prices fluctuated faster and there was more variety up there.  The more people using the market the better!

I think that a lot of people used the market when it first came out, got (or got rid of) what they wanted, and stopped.  I'm different cuz I get bored of weapons fast, and change up my armor all the time...so I'm always looking to trade.  Oh well.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: gdijim on November 11, 2011, 02:57:56 am
I love how roughly three-quarters of the people here respond "Obviously, it's your problem newb - i have no trouble maintaining my armor" when they're the obviously board trolls that live here - AKA old players in clans for the most part.

Look, I have no idea how to balance it - but there is a problem.  It's not just me that's saying that, so I feel pretty justified in the complaint.  However balance is done, it's screwing new players.

I challenge any one you to take off your banner and then try to maintain your gear with under 10K banked for a week - I'm certain you'll see what I mean.

And once again - this thread is directed at chadz, not the board trolls.  I have already seen the population of C-rpg drop just in the time I've been online.  Does he want to see it drop more?  Because it will - new games out, etc.  And not being able to consistently play 1.) a fair match against roughly the same geared/skilled people and instead getting stomped night after night by the supposed 'balance' system and 2.) not being able to use gear you purchase that's hardly high-end is going to drain players.  Mock and laugh and say "Don't let the door hit you in the ass" all you want, but I've already seen the result of some of the changes on the player base.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Blondin on November 11, 2011, 03:11:28 am
I guess chadz answer could be something like that :

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,486.msg5110.html#msg5110
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gawin on November 11, 2011, 03:52:58 am
dont whine my upkeep is 170k regular
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Nyalan on November 11, 2011, 04:22:39 am
I think he's right and we should do something about it, because the high repair costs is at the advantage of older players and not new ones, and that makes the mod inaccessible for new players. We should reduce the repair costs.

REDUCE THE REPAIR COSTS PLEASE
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Lizard_man on November 11, 2011, 04:33:34 am
Why is it, as i mentioned in my earlier post, i was down to around 8,000 gold, and i managed to get more than 100,000 using decent gear, i feel for the cavalry and done, now that's a serious pain to upkeep, hence the 8,000...
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: BD_SUPERBEAST on November 11, 2011, 06:12:42 am
Im maintaning like 40k on equipment everyround as basic equipment, u must have done many things wrong for some generations. Ur equipment its too expensive,ur shield its expensive,ur horse its very expensive and :

If the weapon and xbow break too often cause u dont have high wpf on them then theyll become expensive too in the long run even if they are not expensive themselves.

Get a bank buffer saving some days, use a non banner balance server or retire and play a cheaper class which maybe be more helpfull for ur team and actually maybe funnier for u to do so. Upkeep its ok.

And btw if you decreased upkeep system, the players that are now using more expensive gear than u do(which are the ones u complaining about the clanstacking,etc,etc), would use a much more expensive and better gear so ur arguments are wrong man.



Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Paul on November 11, 2011, 08:04:15 am
chadz already replied and he trolled you like the rest. Mod dead like Skeletor.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Vibe on November 11, 2011, 08:14:35 am
Play in peasant gear for a few maps then switch back to your normal gear.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on November 11, 2011, 09:04:04 am
I love how roughly three-quarters of the people here respond "Obviously, it's your problem newb - i have no trouble maintaining my armor" when they're the obviously board trolls that live here - AKA old players in clans for the most part.

Look, I have no idea how to balance it - but there is a problem.  It's not just me that's saying that, so I feel pretty justified in the complaint.  However balance is done, it's screwing new players.

I challenge any one you to take off your banner and then try to maintain your gear with under 10K banked for a week - I'm certain you'll see what I mean.

And once again - this thread is directed at chadz, not the board trolls.  I have already seen the population of C-rpg drop just in the time I've been online.  Does he want to see it drop more?  Because it will - new games out, etc.  And not being able to consistently play 1.) a fair match against roughly the same geared/skilled people and instead getting stomped night after night by the supposed 'balance' system and 2.) not being able to use gear you purchase that's hardly high-end is going to drain players.  Mock and laugh and say "Don't let the door hit you in the ass" all you want, but I've already seen the result of some of the changes on the player base.

so PM chadz and don't do a public thread if you don't want to read the other players opinion... but if you think old veterans in big clans are just forum trolls, then feel free to not follow advices.

and no... i don't bank billions... when i have 350-400k usually i buy a heirloom point and my bank go back to 30-40k. now i play maybe 10-15 hours per month and i can pretty much buy a heirloom point every three months (so with 30-45 play hours in full 60k gear).

but being a cavalry is a totally different thing. i have a cav alt and i can maybe use the arabian warhorse only when i have x3 or x4 multi... but medium armor, lance, long war axe and rouncey is easly upkeeped with anything greater than x2. polearms are still effective on foot so i don't mind being a support pikeman or poleaxe shieldbreaker 50% of the time.

also high gen characters still get the same money as 1gen players do.

another hint. when you retire and you get back to level1, by the time you get level 25, you should have made at least 50-60k because there is no upkeep till level 26. want to make money fast? respec or retire as soon as you can. builds start rolling for good from level 15-16 so you have plenty of upkeep-free time to raise your funds.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: BlackMilk on November 11, 2011, 09:50:56 am
so PM chadz and don't do a public thread if you don't want to read the other players opinion... but if you think old veterans in big clans are just forum trolls, then feel free to not follow advices.

and no... i don't bank billions... when i have 350-400k usually i buy a heirloom point and my bank go back to 30-40k. now i play maybe 10-15 hours per month and i can pretty much buy a heirloom point every three months (so with 30-45 play hours in full 60k gear).

but being a cavalry is a totally different thing. i have a cav alt and i can maybe use the arabian warhorse only when i have x3 or x4 multi... but medium armor, lance, long war axe and rouncey is easly upkeeped with anything greater than x2. polearms are still effective on foot so i don't mind being a support pikeman or poleaxe shieldbreaker 50% of the time.

also high gen characters still get the same money as 1gen players do.

another hint. when you retire and you get back to level1, by the time you get level 25, you should have made at least 50-60k because there is no upkeep till level 26. want to make money fast? respec or retire as soon as you can. builds start rolling for good from level 15-16 so you have plenty of upkeep-free time to raise your funds.
WHAT? You make 10k/hour when using all your top tier shit? That's impossible.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leesin on November 11, 2011, 10:20:42 am
Change your banner to match one of these so called "super clan" you are talking about, balance problem solved.

Wear and use cheap stuff until you save up like 50k+ then use your good stuff, you shouldn't ever run out of gold unless your equipment is too costly, then you should run out of gold because that's the idea behind the system.

Also, I play with Tribal Warrior Outfit, Vageir Helmet, leather boots, leather gloves for armour and I do just fine.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: MouthnHoof on November 11, 2011, 11:16:44 am
1. play your toon to 31
2. check the market for highly sought after looms
3. retire and loom that item
4. sell your new heirloom for an absurd sum
5. play in plate and helmet with gilded mustache till your next retirement.

(I am pretty sure that there should be a "profit" in the list somewhere)

Remember that you need the helmet with the gilded mustache. That is very important.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on November 11, 2011, 11:18:40 am
WHAT? You make 10k/hour when using all your top tier shit? That's impossible.

well 200 gold per tick, 55-60 ticks per hour so 11000-12000 gold. minus the gear yes you're right.. maybe i can take 4 months for a new loompoint instead of 3... so maybe every 80-90 game hours... still this is not the point of the discussion.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Vibe on November 11, 2011, 11:36:20 am
1. play your toon to 31
2. check the market for highly sought after looms
3. retire and loom that item
4. sell your new heirloom for an absurd sum
5. play in plate and helmet with gilded mustache till your next retirement.

(I am pretty sure that there should be a "profit" in the list somewhere)

Remember that you need the helmet with the gilded mustache. That is very important.

That's just plain stupid. No +1, +2 or +3 sell for more than the sum of loompoints needed to loom the item to that level.
You're better off selling the loom point.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Angantyr on November 11, 2011, 12:25:39 pm
Firstly, armors are strong in cRPG, especially heavy armors ( where light is somewhat redundant, you take 2 hits on average no matter if you have 20 in torso armor or 40 ), but the advantage the OP attributes to it is much exaggerated; with skill it is entirely possible to top the scoreboards with no armor at all. If you think otherwise go train your blocking, attacking and footwork a few hours a day on a duel server until you're on level.

Secondly, if upkeep is so insurmountable why is a majority of players running around fully decked out in medium-heavy armor ?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 11, 2011, 12:48:51 pm
oh, long time no see one of these threads with "I will leave"-threat included. they became quite rare.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Espu on November 11, 2011, 01:13:42 pm
I have already seen the population of C-rpg drop just in the time I've been online.

This illusion pops up every few weeks and the answer is always the same. We have statistics about it and we look at those stats too. Player base has been remarkably stable, we get constant 3000ish unique players every day, which is the way it has been for quite a while.

Obviously people leave, but new people join. Count of new people signing up stays steady and apparently covers the amount of people who leave for whatever reason so the overall population remains steady.

As for the original topic of the thread. I agree that upkeep is not the perfect solution, but it's clearly the best one anyone's been able to come up with so far. Sure, it gives advantage to old players, but that's how it is with any system that has character progression. The whole point of progression is that chars get better so obviously new players start weaker than oldies.

If you have a better system, please write an understandable post about it. This is the best that we've been able to figure out.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gurnisson on November 11, 2011, 01:29:58 pm
Find the good players on your team and support them with pike/long spear. This will help him/them massively which will increase your chance of getting a multiplier. If you're on a horse like you, bumping people for your team is always gold. I can't count the amount of times I've assisted my team by bumping enemies with my US_Cavalry alt.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Oberyn on November 11, 2011, 01:36:06 pm
my US_Cavalry alt.

Omg thats you?! You horse killer, I'll def hunt you even more when I see you now.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Vibe on November 11, 2011, 01:36:39 pm
with my US_Cavalry alt.

JINKIES
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gurnisson on November 11, 2011, 02:03:53 pm
Omg thats you?! You horse killer, I'll def hunt you even more when I see you now.

Well, there's several of them. If your hate is directed at someone else than Walker, you don't have to hunt me more. :wink:
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Renegat on November 11, 2011, 03:22:47 pm
Hello, i play crpg for more than 1 year so i think i'll be able to give you some advices (which have certainly already given).

- First, you should not have an hybrid built if you don't have money : You'll have low wpf and 2, or more, weapons --> high upkeep and maximal chance to repair every round.

- If I were you, i would give up cavalry, it's not worth it, and the upkeep is very high.

- Take the byzantium banner or nord banner (or other clan which can make 5-1/5-0 score) or if you re motivated enough, join a clan, you have to know that many clans are not doing a selection and take everyone who come on ts and play at least 2 or 3h per week.

I guess all those tips have already been given. However, i think it's difficult to follow advices when you're insulted in the same post.
And in my opinion, the problem is not upkeeps, but the fact that you have (most of the time) a x1. So the third advice is certainly the most important one.
I also agree with some poeple when they say that the banner balance is a bit rude to bear for clanless/new poeple : I usually do 6/8k gold in 1 hour of game, which is a bit too much. So i guess that the guy who is never in my team because he has not my banner doesn't do more than 1 or 2k, or even have loss. (and i have 49k gears).
I have no solution to keep the banner balance without penalizing clanless players. The only solution for you is to take a clan's banner (many players do that, it's quite annoying for my clan cause it separates us and most of players who spoil our banner are not bad, so unbalancing is increased).

And for other poeple here : It's quite sad to see so many poeple trolling a new player who try to argument and who remain respectfull despite insults, but i'm pretty surprised to see some admin trolling him too. Even if he is wrong, as an admin you should not be that mean with a player.

Ps: Sorry if I did grammar mistakes.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: BlueKnight on November 11, 2011, 03:28:36 pm
Upkeep works, just don't be stupid with your money. You use crossbow and bolts, expensive 1h and expensive shield, helmet, chest, gloves and boots, and on top of that A HORSE. Sure its all medium gear, but you're carrying a lot of different items and they add up.

This is what I did when I played cav.

x1 light armor on foot, 1h weapon, crappy shield
x2 medium armor on foot, 1h weapon, medium shield
x3 medium armor on horse, 1h weapon, medium shield
x4 heavy armor on armoured horse, 1h weapon, good shield
x5 heavy armor on armoured horse, 1h weapon, good shield, xbow or a lance

I ALWAYS made money if I upgraded my gear depending on multiplier.

And you're 4th gen, how are you a new player? By 4th gen you should have at least a few hundred thousand in the bank, unless you blew it all on looms, or was stupid and didn't manage your money right. If so, you deserve to be poor.

It's better to use the same gear all the time. It makes your timing the best possible. You will get used to it and then after the x1 4 eva you will have x5 and total result will be better for you. In the same gear for all the time you will be more effective.

What is important is not only the amount of body armour you have but also the weight. Being able to move fast makes you safer. It's harder to shoot you, your footwork is better and therefore you gain the advantage during fighting. Some famous and skilled players are certainly able to upkeep the most expensive gear, but not always this gear is worth enough to be upkeeped by them. I used to use medium+ gear and noticed that I was dying after 2 hits ( it was 15/24 2h ). After I had started using medium- gear ( weaker, cheaper, less heavy) I was still dying after 2 hits, but making  money was easier and also my speed made me win a few fights with rly skilled guys.

Sometimes there is no point to wear heavy and expensive gear. I usually used it just to look awesome ^^
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Draggon on November 11, 2011, 05:06:33 pm
Okay I stopped reading about halfway through the entire thread so someone may have mentioned this or something similar already - apologies if this is redundant (actually it looks like Nagasoup has the same idea on some of this).

My advice to any new folks out there who are having trouble making cash (I am relatively new to cRPG myself - maybe 6 months or so).
I'm only Gen4 and have accumulated 1 Lordly (+3 item) and 1 Balanced item (+2) and at one point had approximately 1.4 million gold (during Gen3).  Not saying this to brag, only to say that it can be done thru a little careful planning.

Easy formula for modifiers:
x1 = 10k gear set
x2 = 20k gear set
x3 = 30k gear set
and so on...

Once you gain a Loom Point sell it.  Reason for this is that you can make more gold selling one than using the point yourself on an item.
Turn that money around to Buy an Heirloomed item on the market.  I know, it's wierd that it works like that but it does.  Sometimes you can snatch items off the market for around 250k per Loom point.  But you can sell a Loom Point for 400-475k.

Even when you have money in the bank, don't go crazy with gear or you'll go backwards.  Keep using the modifier formula above and you'll ALWAYS be gaining gold.  I promise.

Once you have about 400k or more gold you can actually start playing the cRPG Market.  Buying low and selling higher.  Just recently bought a shield for 250k, traded it for a sword, and sold that for 325k.

Another thing you can do is put your Main in Strategus, craft to raise gold, and then sell that gold for around 25:1 ratio for cRPG gold.  Something that requires literally no effort since your character crafts all day while you fuck, play cRPG, work, sleep, eat, shit, w/e.

Anyway, these are just a few tricks for newbies - or anyone.  Honestly hope it helps because this mod is awesome and we need to keep the player base up.  So helping new folks is a must.  Or the game will die.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: SchokoSchaf on November 11, 2011, 05:10:48 pm
This community is classic! Tell all the puppies to sell their loompoints, which is no official or controlable ingame feature and then mock them, when they get scammed.  :lol:
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Engine on November 11, 2011, 05:27:26 pm

I challenge any one you to take off your banner and then try to maintain your gear with under 10K banked for a week - I'm certain you'll see what I mean.

Hey dude, I just told you I did that. I hovered at 10k for months actually, until my recent retirement where I made 80k leveling back up to 30. Now I wear my 80k+ worth of gear almost every round, and am down to 70k.

If you want help, look me up sometime (EngineEpsilon), throw on the same banner as me, and we'll roll together. If I can do it, you can do it.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Penitent on November 11, 2011, 05:32:17 pm
To the OP,

Really, please read my post about playing the market and take is seriously.  I say this because what I say is relevant to your plight, and I want to help!  Consider:

1) I am not in a clan
2) we are the same gen
3) I've played cav for 2 of my gens, at least part time
4) I have 180k in the bank, and I manage upkeep ok

I'm giving sound advice!  Sorry about all the trolls.  People just love this game, and when you are passionate about something sometimes you will either be overprotective of it or ridicule those who criticize it.

The other great advice I saw was using a cheap set at 1x, then adding nicer gear at 2x, etc.  I do this as well.  Once I get 2x or 3x, I bust out the nice armored glove and horse and such.  For a nice start, don't take a horse if you are on 1x.  Give it a try.

The upkeep has its ups and downs, and that's what keeps it interesting.  Also, using different equipment sets keeps if fun!  Variety is the spice of life, and of this game.  Using your best gear all the time becomes dull (for me anyways) but when I get the multiplier or the gold to earn using it for a while, it's like Aww yeah!!

I've had 500k in the bank at one point...I've also had so little money that I couldn't repair even my most basic equipment.  Then I sell something I don't use very often and march on.  Look at me now!  I'm not gen 14 with 6 million gold...but I'm comfortable and well established.  I'm ok with going broke again if I have to, but I have the tools to make it work.

So, I advise to ignore the trolls (this game is full of them, and they give it a great character, so don't hate them either :)  ) and keep at it.  Pick up the sound advise in this thread, follow it, and you won't go wrong.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tristan on November 13, 2011, 02:26:29 am
@op: Can I have your stuff?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on November 13, 2011, 03:38:04 am
As melee, I have never ever had to consider upkeep when deciding what I want to wear. And my usual amount of gold is 3000, as I keep buying new stuff and then selling it to buy something else. So yeah, I think your rant is exaggerated, rather than the upkeep.

Anyhow, adios.

don't lie about your bank please...
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Fartface on November 13, 2011, 07:48:04 pm
cya.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Xant on November 13, 2011, 08:35:29 pm
don't lie about your bank please...

I don't lie about my bank, thanks...
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Joker86 on November 14, 2011, 07:39:46 pm
As for the original topic of the thread. I agree that upkeep is not the perfect solution, but it's clearly the best one anyone's been able to come up with so far.

As far as I know you didn't even ask the community for different solutions before announcing the upkeep patch...  :?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leshma on November 14, 2011, 08:56:37 pm
As far as I know you didn't even ask the community for different solutions before announcing the upkeep patch...  :?

Wrong.

It was upkeep or wipe!
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on November 14, 2011, 10:02:58 pm
As melee, I have never ever had to consider upkeep when deciding what I want to wear. And my usual amount of gold is 3000, as I keep buying new stuff and then selling it to buy something else. So yeah, I think your rant is exaggerated, rather than the upkeep.

Anyhow, adios.

I'd have to agree.  I'm only gen 2 and was able to make 100k trading after I retired (and still get a +1 loomed courser).  My first gen as cav I never had any money.  the most I ever had in the bank was 20k.  I would constantly have to go infantry and could wear good gear to make my money back.

I don't see the problem...maybe the OP needs to rethink their rant and in game money making strategy.  Retire and sell the loom point for 350k and never have to worry about money again. 
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Lech on November 14, 2011, 10:35:49 pm
I use gear i like and i already bought 3 levels of heirlooms with my spare gold. Top level of shield, spear, helmet and shield, heraldic mail. One gen as a cav.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Leshma on November 15, 2011, 01:16:10 am
I just hope that when I start playing again (in about 4 months) c-rpg will not be dead and upkeep will be removed and game properly balanced.

Upkeep is doing fine job but I never liked it and never will. They need to figure out how to balance the mod without upkeep.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Vibe on November 15, 2011, 08:02:51 am
I just hope that when I start playing again (in about 4 months) c-rpg will not be dead and upkeep will be removed and game properly balanced.

Upkeep is doing fine job but I never liked it and never will. They need to figure out how to balance the mod without upkeep.

Why no cRPG for 4 months?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Original_Sin on November 15, 2011, 01:27:43 pm
Quote
I'm done.

Jim
ok, James. I'll see you in 2-3 weeks maybe less ;P
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Turkhammer on November 15, 2011, 05:03:27 pm
The total cost of all my gear is 87k and I still break even or only lose less than 5k gold a day. If anything upkeep costs are still too low.

Bs to increasing it.  Maybe you're just lucky to get on and stay on a 5x all day.  No way you could do that with a run of 1 and 2x, which more typical of my experience.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tovi on November 15, 2011, 07:52:36 pm
AS I said before, it would be nice to decrease bonus. x5, x4, x3 etc. each turn, instead of losing everything.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Joker86 on November 16, 2011, 01:21:26 am
It would be nice if the developers would implement a system which doesn't depend on luck and constant "losing" of something ( = gold), but more on a system to balance the effectiveness of different classes and levels, without limiting them in their possibilities. I suggested a system with a maximum value of equipment, depending on your level, which can be raised by sacrificing skill points. And god knows this is not the only possible solution. But unfortunately the decision was made to have the player "worry" all the time about different things, a system which punishes failure, instead of rewarding success, like a good game does.

Sure, upkeep is working more or less. This doesn't mean it was the best solution... or even a good one... there are so many ways to achieve balance, what made you decide for upkeep, without at least asking the community for alternative ideas? I don't say you had to make a poll about the best suggestions and then being bound to create what the community voted for, but on the other hand I know alternatives, which if you compare the pros and cons to the upkeep system clearly outmatch latter.

Really, I think the only reason why cRPG is persisting that long is because of the lack of alternatives. The game design and the crappy community with its enormous amount of wannabe-funny trolls is almost unbearable. To me, at least.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Camaris on November 16, 2011, 01:24:43 am
It would be nice if the developers would implement a system which doesn't depend on luck and constant "losing" of something ( = gold), but more on a system to balance the effectiveness of different classes and levels, without limiting them in their possibilities. I suggested a system with a maximum value of equipment, depending on your level, which can be raised by sacrificing skill points. And god knows this is not the only possible solution. But unfortunately the decision was made to have the player "worry" all the time about different things, a system which punishes failure, instead of rewarding success, like a good game does.

Sure, upkeep is working more or less. This doesn't mean it was the best solution... or even a good one... there are so many ways to achieve balance, what made you decide for upkeep, without at least asking the community for alternative ideas? I don't say you had to make a poll about the best suggestions and then being bound to create what the community voted for, but on the other hand I know alternatives, which if you compare the pros and cons to the upkeep system clearly outmatch latter.

Really, I think the only reason why cRPG is persisting that long is because of the lack of alternatives. The game design and the crappy community with its enormous amount of wannabe-funny trolls is almost unbearable. To me, at least.

then send them to chadz if your alternatives are sooooo much better...
all those people knowing how to cure everything but never start doing it but rather rant about everything.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Lech on November 16, 2011, 01:37:46 am
The valor system is nice, i would just remove randomness from it or reduce it. Still, i have valor often enough so it's randomness is not major issue.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Gomer on November 16, 2011, 01:46:59 am
I'll change it right away.

I would quit if you did. Just because some winy bitch uninformed player doesn't understand the repair formula. The high levels earned their money and they can spend it on running around with plate if they want. Or he could just respec before 26 because I doubt he is a gen 2 :P. Anyway I like the game as it is and you need to add a winy section. Nvm you have a suggestion section. :mrgreen:
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Joker86 on November 16, 2011, 02:15:22 am
then send them to chadz if your alternatives are sooooo much better...
all those people knowing how to cure everything but never start doing it but rather rant about everything.

How am I supposed to do it? I don't have any clue of programming.

And btw.:

How about a system which doesn't have any upkeep at all, but you have to invest skill points to exceed a certain value of equipment? This way we have all dice rolls removed, your performance ingame will be more predictable, and in theory you can run around with whatever equipment you want, AS LONG as you want.

When you put it like that, it doesn't sound so horrible. Might consider it if we ever decide to completely change the game again :P

Although I don't know how much sarcasm was put in the first sentence. The sarcasm in the second one is obvious.  :?
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Christo on November 16, 2011, 02:39:08 am
The  :P emoticon gives it away obviously.
Title: Re: I'm done with C-RPG unless upkeep costs change
Post by: Tovi on November 16, 2011, 02:02:25 pm
Mercenary Mod works well, without any upkeep. You just gain less money.

Another idea is to buy some training to grow your XP faster (or some char).