The problem is the speed: it doesn't matter if you up the damage to 60 blunt, I still wouldn't use it because I can never hit anything. I generally get one kill (sometimes 2 or 3) in any round with a Warbow but I'm lucky if I get one hit in a round with the Longbow - and that's generally only if I risk shooting into a nearby melee. Target acquisition is impossible with a bow that slow.
Longbow was the ultimate long-range weapon (barring machines) so I think it makes sense to buff its projectile speed, make it cost a LOT more so that (with upkeep) only dedicated archers can realistically use it consistently, and see how that plays for balance. The longbow should be a weapon that you're afraid of from the moment you spawn - it should be a serious long-distance threat. Definitely should take much longer to draw-back on than the other bows, though.
Longbow was the ultimate long-range weapon (barring machines) so I think it makes sense to buff its projectile speed, make it cost a LOT more so that (with upkeep) only dedicated archers can realistically use it consistently, and see how that plays for balance. The longbow should be a weapon that you're afraid of from the moment you spawn - it should be a serious long-distance threat. Definitely should take much longer to draw-back on than the other bows, though.Actually, a composite Mongol bow was superior to longbow both in size (being smaller, in this case) and in plate armour penetration.
Actually, a composite Mongol bow was superior to longbow both in size (being smaller, in this case) and in plate armour penetration.
Yes, we definetly need more powerful ranged weapons, the current ranged spam is not enough, we need a longbow to terrify us so we're afraid of it's mightyness from the moment we spawn. It would be only fair that an archer who stays away from battle and never puts himself in danger gets a more powerful weapon.
Pretty much sums up the opinion of any melee/cav player in his mind.
Bows are still machine guns and the damage buff transformed them from a support class (what they nearly were pre-buff) to a sniper-zero risk class again.
If they were to be correctly balanced (requiring points to use), only crossbows should be the long range weapons. They packed a considerably higher draw force than any bow, thus increasing the shot speed and the range. But no ranged weapon should be as accurate as they are now, both for realism and for game balance.
The problem is the speed: it doesn't matter if you up the damage to 60 blunt, I still wouldn't use it because I can never hit anything. I generally get one kill (sometimes 2 or 3) in any round with a Warbow but I'm lucky if I get one hit in a round with the Longbow - and that's generally only if I risk shooting into a nearby melee. Target acquisition is impossible with a bow that slow.
No offense, if those are your numbers you just need to play another class, because you aren't an archer :idea:Do you use a longbow? How many people do you shoot dead with it every round?
Do you use a longbow? How many people do you shoot dead with it every round?
1 player and 3 horses when I use it. As stated though, I quit using it because the faster fire rate of even a Strong Bow outweighs the damage buff of the Long Bow. Seriously though, if you can only land 1 arrow during a round, you can't aim, or you have no WPF and can't aim.It's not much to do with aiming; the problem with the Longbow is the target acquisition. Sometimes it's as obvious as them moving behind something or getting into combat by the time you're in a position to shoot. At other times you've been tracking them, because long range shots are about anticipation, and they just totally change direction. The time between deciding who to shoot at and actually loosing the arrow is so long that the Longbow isn't practical to use a lot of the time. This isn't about nerfing or buffing; I'm happy enough using the War Bow, I just can't understand why anyone would ever choose a Longbow when it's such a pain in the neck actually using it.
1 player and 3 horses when I use it. As stated though, I quit using it because the faster fire rate of even a Strong Bow outweighs the damage buff of the Long Bow. Seriously though, if you can only land 1 arrow during a round, you can't aim, or you have no WPF and can't aim.I'm not counting horses!
Solution for "useless" Longbow problem:
+4 to cut dmg. +5 to shot speed. -1 to speed rtng. + make it worth 10k
To not make it OP:
Warbow:
+1 to cut dmg. + 1 to shot speed. +2 to speed rtng. + make it cost 8,5k (almost same as now)
ALL other bows:
+3 to speed rtng. +2 to shot speed. + make it cost +500 gold to each one.
Longbows, and bows in general, actually, were capable of far longer range than any crossbow.
Crossbows were not developed because they were better, but because they were easier.
A bolt was capable of greater armor penetration on average, this was true, but they couldn't do anything approaching the range or accuracy.
Crossbows were imprecise weapons, used primarily by non-archers. They were easy to load, required no great skill to use, and were an alternative for those without the skill and training of the more traditional archer.
I have fired historically accurate replicas of longbows, seen experts use them, etc. and I can tell you they are quite accurate, despite your claim to the contrary.
As far as accuracy goes I would agree with bruce. Archery wasn't really used on a 1v1 basis during this time period, it was more of a line-up-everyone and hope that a few of them hit the big mass of enemies coming your way.
However, because this games doesn't have huge masses of enemies in multiplayer all charging your direction with no regard to what you are shooting...I would say the accuracy needs to be bumped up a notch to put this bow on par with others.
I ground my way up to 18/18 to be able to use one and I discovered once I had that the longbow is a complete waste of time. The new animation which slows archery combined with the bow's own slow speed means you have a delay of about 4 seconds between choosing a target and releasing the arrow. This is too much for the bow to have any real value: at long range your target could have gone anywhere in this time while at close range you have already been killed. Unsurprisingly hardly any archers use the longbow now. It should either be totally reworked or simply removed from the mod.
Longbow used to be the most overpowered bow ever in the history of cRPG. All chadz did was nerf the speed, because he thinks it should fulfill the role of being the more powerful bow, but slower.At the expense of being any use.
And it does, stop whining.
Having a dedicated longbowman alt, i wouldn't mind the fire rate staying as it is, as long as the longbow got some other noticeable advantage over other bows, be it damage, accuracy or arrow speed.
Having a dedicated longbowman alt, i wouldn't mind the fire rate staying as it is, as long as the longbow got some other noticeable advantage over other bows, be it damage, accuracy or arrow speed.
Yes, we definetly need more powerful ranged weapons, the current ranged spam is not enough, we need a longbow to terrify us so we're afraid of it's mightyness from the moment we spawn. It would be only fair that an archer who stays away from battle and never puts himself in danger gets a more powerful weapon.
Yes, we definetly need more powerful ranged weapons, the current ranged spam is not enough, we need a longbow to terrify us so we're afraid of it's mightyness from the moment we spawn. It would be only fair that an archer who stays away from battle and never puts himself in danger gets a more powerful weapon.
I ground my way up to 18/18 to be able to use one and I discovered once I had that the longbow is a complete waste of time. The new animation which slows archery combined with the bow's own slow speed means you have a delay of about 4 seconds between choosing a target and releasing the arrow. This is too much for the bow to have any real value: at long range your target could have gone anywhere in this time while at close range you have already been killed. Unsurprisingly hardly any archers use the longbow now. It should either be totally reworked or simply removed from the mod.
Ill buy one now, and try to get the effort up to 'loom one soonish. I havent read anyone else's posts but from yours I think you need to hold the mouse button down and track ur target, as soon as you reeeeeaaaccccchhhh full stretch, make final adjustment, and BAM! you just nuked a guy. Its not easy but it is effective.I repeat my very funny story (in connection with your "BAM! you just nuked a guy"):
Yes. You don't one shot anyone but shirtless peasants who started their character half an hour ago even with a longbow and bodkin arrows. There is all the difficulty of the long delay between aiming and actually firing plus the very brief time the reticule is narrow enough to get a reasonable chance of a hit and for a very small advantage. I can see that it might work for short range shots with dedicated Strength based longbow-only archers, but for most archers the weapon isn't worth considering next to the alternatives.
At this moment I have 27str/12agi build, with 9 PD and 137 wpf in archery. And yes, I'm aiming gor 30\12 build.Those are more or less the same figures as I get with a plain, ordinary War Bow and PD6. PD may lengthen the time it takes for the reticule to widen for a held shot, but it doesn't improve accuracy at all - it used to once upon a time as it does in Native, but some patch between September 2010 and January 2011 took this away. Cup1d is a better archer than me; if he can't hit much with this build, I won't try either.
If you expect something like - one shot = one kill, sorry, I must dissapoint you.
Damage report
AT 9 pd with MW warbow and sharp bodkins you cant oneshot anyone except peasant.
Archers take 2 arrows (chars with 50-53 health, 27-36 body armor).
Lamellar west chars (ninja-like - 38-44 body armor) take 2-3 arrows.
Mail and other medium armor (46-52 body armor) take at least 4 arrows. (but usually you are dead)
Brigandine and Elite series armor take at least 5 arrows. (but usually you are dead)
Transitional Armor and heavier - 5-8 arrows. (but usually you are dead)
Accuracy report
Accuracy is bad. IMHO = Do not expect better accuracy with more and more PD over requirement.
so nerf warbow and strongbow and longbow will be fine :o)
Try using better bait if you're looking for more troll points :rolleyes:
How far were you? Projectiles have pathetic hit power at long distances if shooting uphill (Top of the arc to be specific). I remember being tinked from a lucky shot from an archer I could barely see across the map and it took about 8% of my health. I have the best 5 pound armor and 0 pound gauntlets for protection and that is it.
It was a bodkin arrow sticking out of me too...
Bad (very very bad idea).
weight 4.75
Weight prevents from running with this bow.AFAIK weapon weight doesn't affect character running speed at all (only other weapon modifier - but I will not tell you - which one :) )
NERF the damage reduction over range. (so dmg at range can be achieved)
Longbow gets piercing damage next patch. 23p I think.
I used the longbow on my 13 PD archer... could 2 shot tin cans
nuffsed
Bad (very very bad idea).
For now here is not (looks so) minimum 5 kg free weight what doesn't decrease effective WPF for archers.
So in case of 4,75kg weight - you must wear nothing more except 1 pack of arrows.
Because even 2nd pack of arrow will decrease your effective WPF more and more.
Why at all (general\generally) you want to change bows weight? What the point?
Just to find another way how to decrease Longbow quantity? It's (those ways) fully enough now.
P.s.AFAIK weapon weight doesn't affect character running speed at all (only other weapon modifier - but I will not tell you - which one :) )
Longbow gets piercing damage next patch. 23p I think.Is it possible to increase projectile speed (only for Longbow) too?
XBows have recently been concretely proven that the base accuracy (I think walt did it) does not effect your shot at all, and regardless of your wpf the reticule will be identical whether you are using a light xbow or a sniper or any of the others.
It has been proven that wpf increases accuracy, and PD merely makes the reticule "hold" longer at the optimum position, as well as increasing damage at all ranges. Also from what I can see, among other archers as well, PD no longer makes your bow less accurate.It has been proven that even dev.team members don't know how archery works (I have a link to topic proving it).
...
Longbow gets piercing damage next patch. 23p I think.
The only thing in my opinion that should be changed on the longbow to make it useable is to increase the speed by 2 to 50. I have done some testing on Native while using the exact stats of the current longbow and the animations. Even there it has the release flaw (i'm not saying bug because it's just due to the low speed.) I found that the small increase in speed to 2 got rid of the flaw so massively.
Also for an increase of 3 damage from the warbow, the difference in the speed is 11 while the damage difference between the strongbow and warbow is also 3 while the speed difference is only 4. Looking at the rest of the bows you have near enough the same differences but thats not what I am saying.
I've wanted to use the longbow since the new patch, I find that the release flaw really screws up my ability to aim successfully and I would like to see (and I have annoyed an "item unbalancer" over it in irc) this increased.
If anyone wants to recreate the Native longbow screw over:
Animation pack: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,134185.0.html
Item changer: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,105928.0.html
Why 13? The damage bonus does not effect anything past 4 higher then your bow requirement.
When I use my longbow, I want it accurate enough to be a threat at long range, powerful enough to drop a cloth-wearer in one shot and fast enough to make it rain. English archery was all about the speed at which the archer could send arrows down range, and I'd like that to be reflected in game. At the moment I'm trading shots with crossbowmen; in reality I should be shooting twice as fast as a plain crossbow or even faster for the heavier weapons.
Consider video evidence (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-0-RK3cjk).
I really don't care for holding my accuracy after the draw, that's more a recurve trick. Crossbows will always have the edge fighting from cover as well, since they only have to be exposed when firing. So in short, let the warbow be for the snipers and the longbow for the spammers. That gives them both a role to fill.
I have a fine longbow now,and the shot speed is the same of the heavy crossbow. For the most medium armored guys you nedd 2 hits. Its fun to play the bow with 172 Archery WPF.I think "shoot speed" means a time between two shots.
Very low pierce damage, at that. I fear it will actually be doing generally less damage with that, which will make it suck even more.
i see lots of longBAWmen here. what were you expecting? a repeating bow which can send over 9000 arrows in 1 secs? it's quite ok with longbow's current stats. if you want sniping stuff, just go and play CoD
The thing with crossbows is that they take a horrendous amount of strength to pull the string back due to the amount of energy it uses to launch the bolt, while with a bow, the string is longer thus as someone said before, the energy put into drawing back a bow string to a crossbow in turn becomes more and fires the arrow at a greater speed and thus a greater distance, which is not reflected in cRPG. (I am not calling realism! Just physics, which could be completely wrong So please correct me! ^^)
would we say realism all crossbows need a damagenerf of say 90%
no xbowman with brain would use a xbow and try to pull the string back with bare hands :D
you have some tools for it, goes from a cheap belt hook+Stirrup to a Windlass...
when we say about bows, the khergitbow would be as good as a longbow or atleast warbow, the only downside would be the range
but meeh physiscs and realism dont exist ingame so dont bother with it...
You guys seem to be having a good time discussing the stats of the longbow, but what about its model? I dont like this twig people keep calling a longbow.
Pics to show you what I mean - First image from each set is native (pretty accurate to what a longbow looks like) and second is crpg right now.(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
I think simply upping the damage by another two or three points would make it viable, then it would be a good nitch weapon that could be used for headhunting cav/tin cans. Oh, and making the image for it larger, it looks too small in-game.
As for the complaints that by the time you draw your bow you have to readjust for a target, I disagree. I at least can move my reticule and track while drawing (Is my game glitched then?), so I only lose targets when they go behind cover..