cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Lordark on November 08, 2011, 07:39:40 am

Title: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Lordark on November 08, 2011, 07:39:40 am
Seems to be its one of those items still screaming balance to me.

For example Ats_Dasty and Jachem the coward with hi agil being abil to shimmy faster backwards then I can move forwards  and doing hurricane 360 swipes with ease.

Old suggestions have been to slow down attack speed more, or remove block. Dunno just seems one of those few items that screams 'balance ' me. What do you all think? 

Give it some love or leave it alone?
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Cepeshi on November 08, 2011, 08:17:10 am
1 v 1 pike is not that good, but it is awesome support weapon, always when i see group of guys and pikes/spears sticking, i am like: Oh no, not again...

but then, 1v1 manageable, and if ganged properly, than even in groups its easy

imho removing block would be just stupid and render those pretty much useless, ocassionaly you need a block or two before someone arrives to your help or you can switch to other wapon
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Digglez on November 08, 2011, 09:04:53 am
actually longspears & pikes are not as bad as you'd think in 1v1, however the ability to jump and stab is what keeps them 'in the game'.

Personally its a little silly seeing them do the jump spin stabs and whatnot, but have a feeling if they removed that number of support players would drop even more.  its already hard enough to get people to play SUPPORT roles instead of kill whoring.


Ideally...
Pike (and possibly Long Spear) should go back to 3slots to prevent the 'back up weapon syndrome'
Increase dmg by 1-3.
Disable jump stabbing with weapons 150 or longer
Regular spear to 1 slot and able to rear horses
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Cepeshi on November 08, 2011, 09:10:37 am

Ideally...
Pike (and possibly Long Spear) should go back to 3slots to prevent the 'back up weapon syndrome'
Increase dmg by 1-3.
Disable jump stabbing with weapons 150 or longer
Regular spear to 1 slot and able to rear horses

the jumphit is kind of silly, yes, but its part of the game and funny to watch tbh :)
if they would go 3slots, i would barely pick one up to go support, as than i would miss having my beloved 2slot weapon on me:(
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Leshma on November 08, 2011, 11:55:42 am
slow down attack speed

^this

That way many polearms would be affected and that's exactly we need, to get it of lightning fast polearm stab. Dueling spearmen in this game is pain in the ass because even the slowest pike will stab before any attack of my Danish GS. As for awlpike and agi builds, there's simply no counter to that weapon. Makes katana look like a great maul when it comes to speed...

This polearm age has to go and only way to do this is serious stab slowdown.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on November 08, 2011, 12:00:59 pm
fast stab gives variation to polearm attacks and i think it needs it.

but i do agree its wrong on pikes and awlpikes (without shield). crossed this agi build last night with a loomed awlpike, boucing in to hit and out to avoid hits, even good players couldnt to anything, and when he'd hit he would polestun (with the speed bonus) and then he would spamthrust you
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: justme on November 08, 2011, 12:02:32 pm
i say disable all jump attacks
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Vibe on November 08, 2011, 12:05:43 pm
i say disable all jump attacks

Wouldn't mind this.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Christo on November 08, 2011, 12:06:41 pm
Or, only overheads from jumping.

Kinda.. erm makes sense, you can do that.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Cup1d on November 08, 2011, 12:11:48 pm
Just remove attack ability, but add pole-vaulting. Do not forget about Olimpic games at 2012.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on November 08, 2011, 12:37:09 pm
Going 3 slot and lowing the other spears to 1 slot is a good solution. Although as support goes I still think Battle Fork = the bomb. I'm using the 166 pike on my str build and it is great fun whipping out horses and people and buildings and small Japanese cities in on shot.

Up the 12 PS!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Skysong on November 08, 2011, 03:38:29 pm
Disable jump stabbing with weapons 150 or longer

+1
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Penitent on November 08, 2011, 05:02:21 pm
If you do ONE thing, pikes and long spears will be balanced.

Disable 180 degree spin-stabbing.

If this was done, jump-stabbing wouldn't matter as much.  Think about it.  It's the jump-spin-around stab that is the problem.  Remove the spin part and its fine.

Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Vexus on November 08, 2011, 05:44:37 pm
Don't know if it is possible but locking thrusts/swings animations till a certain angle to not be able to do 180 degree would solve it.

Also pike/long spear imo should get unbalanced tag I don't get how you can feint, block and do ultra fast thrusts with such a long (Meaning tiring) weapon.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Draggon on November 08, 2011, 08:54:25 pm
The only change I would really like to see with Long Spears & Pikes is the bullshit where you can still stab someone standing right next to you.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Relit on November 08, 2011, 09:11:09 pm
The only change I would really like to see with Long Spears & Pikes is the bullshit where you can still stab someone standing right next to you.

The Long spear does that. On the pike it goes through the target, unless you do a jump, then it is a glancing blow.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Christo on November 08, 2011, 09:12:46 pm
The Long spear does that.

Everything does that.

Period.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Stormcrow on November 09, 2011, 12:56:32 am
you shouldnt be able to jump backwards, do a 180 degree attack with 300 length weapon all at once. its ridiculous
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Relit on November 09, 2011, 02:43:34 am
you shouldnt be able to jump backwards, do a 180 degree attack with 300 length weapon all at once. its ridiculous

Im all for taking away jump attacks. Also making the Pike and Long Spear a 3 slot would be nice.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Lordark on November 09, 2011, 02:59:26 am
I came up with an idea, give them over head attack but take away jump attack. But make the over head reeal slow!
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Zisa on November 09, 2011, 04:38:18 am
If you can't beat it.. nerf it :P
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Dexxtaa on November 09, 2011, 02:59:04 pm
If you can't beat it.. nerf it :P

I like pikes ^_^

(I like Zisa's recent posts more and more)
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: MouthnHoof on November 09, 2011, 03:48:09 pm
Old suggestions have been to slow down attack speed more, or remove block. Dunno just seems one of those few items that screams 'balance ' me. What do you all think? 
Slowing the animation means even more area attacks. Hit detection is on as long as the animation is playing - longer animation means a longer period of waving it around till it touches something and registering a hit.

Removing block is killing the weapon, especially since it cannot even chamber block swings. Whoever is carrying a long spear already pays a lot in defense - he runs slower and exposed to arrows, not to mention the slots restriction.

"Unbalanced" flag as someone suggested above does make sense though. Unlike a spear or a Bec, it is gripped off its center of gravity. In compensation it should get a small damage boost and speed boost (fast thrust, but predictable, cannot spam it or faint quickly).
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Vibe on November 10, 2011, 10:21:40 am
"Unbalanced" flag as someone suggested above does make sense though. Unlike a spear or a Bec, it is gripped off its center of gravity. In compensation it should get a small damage boost and speed boost (fast thrust, but predictable, cannot spam it or faint quickly).

This would be a buff...
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: MouthnHoof on November 10, 2011, 12:20:48 pm
This would be a buff...
How is unbalanced a buff?
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Vibe on November 10, 2011, 12:21:29 pm
How is unbalanced a buff?

Unbalanced is barely a nerf, but you also suggested that they get a small damage boost and speed bost - buff.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Civilian on November 10, 2011, 07:43:56 pm
Don't touch my jump attacks with a Hoplite!
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Vex. on November 10, 2011, 08:06:55 pm
Pike/long spear is a support weapon, sucks 1v1... Chamber the damn thing and it's a easy win.
After the overhead was removed I would say it's balanced
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Lordark on November 10, 2011, 11:46:15 pm
Raise the STR requirements. That way I see less longspear/pike trollz like Jujubean the Coward pop people with a spear then run like mad.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Penitent on November 11, 2011, 12:41:15 am
Don't know if it is possible but locking thrusts/swings animations till a certain angle to not be able to do 180 degree would solve it.

Also pike/long spear imo should get unbalanced tag I don't get how you can feint, block and do ultra fast thrusts with such a long (Meaning tiring) weapon.

I think this would be fine.
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: dodnet on November 11, 2011, 02:38:24 pm
Oh come on... I can't block, leave me my last chance: a long spear!  :cry:
Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Memento_Mori on November 11, 2011, 03:43:47 pm
I like the 3 slot idea, make it an actual support weapon instead of the "I pick this up and suddenly I have a 200+ ranged attack" (since ranged attacks do the pole stun wobbly weeble thing as well) & still have my 120+ length 2h/pole arm on my back that I can whip out at any time.




Title: Re: SO whats up with Long Spears/Pike
Post by: Dexxtaa on November 11, 2011, 03:53:00 pm
I like the 3 slot idea, make it an actual support weapon instead of the "I pick this up and suddenly I have a 200+ ranged attack" (since ranged attacks do the pole stun wobbly weeble thing as well) & still have my 120+ length 2h/pole arm on my back that I can whip out at any time.

Said MR MW NODACHI SWING SWING SWING BEATDOWN CURBSTOMP BISHES.

When you coming to Chaos.