I never played an archer and I never will, but its very sad how little arrows I see flying in the sky. The battles just look poor nowadays without the archer masses, its just one blob of infantry against the other.... no more shield wall camping with archers behind makes me sad :-\ this mod used to be so epic, no more 200 pop servers no more archers I am a sad panda.....
For the record:From what I've been told a arrow in the head only shows if it's killing. If not you can't see it. So maybe you've just head the neck or something?(click to show/hide)
After I shot this player in the face, I was flabbergasted to see her run around with an arrow sticking out of her face. This is with a twice heirloomed strong bow with PD 6, 152 wpf, and a bodkin arrow at medium range.
for crpg archery is ok, for strategus its a mystery.
I agree with these two.for crpg archery is ok, for strategus its a mystery.Agree on this.
I guess mainly the guys who are too stupid to buy a wodden shield still think archers are OP..
People who think wooden shield protects you from archers are stupid.
You're better off running in a zig-zag than using most (non-heirloomed) shields with current shield balance.
I'm not sure about the "low damage" of archery.
I usually run around in low/medium armor (highest I had was a 5k gold armor) so I always carry a shield on me because I die in 1-2 arrows.
I made a new char, I decided I could afford more expensive armor so I went for some heavy armor (cuir bouilli @ 10k gold is considered HEAVY to me) and I thought maybe I wouldn't have to carry around a shield because archers wouldn't kill me in 1-2 shots but I was wrong.
Basically, archers can do more damage than infantry and from RANGE, I know I can take 3 hits most of the time from infantry with a STRENGTH build, but if I come face to face with an archer 1 arrow will easily one hit me in my chest, maybe 2 arrows if I'm lucky.
poetry dog is right. That's not a headshot, it hit the shoulder or something
Yeah there is something buggy, where the arrow went through the head hit box and hit the body hit box behind it.
I'm thinking of making an archer character to test the whole thing out. I've never been an archer before so I won't have any strong preconceptions about what their power should be. Does anyone know a good build that I should go for? I really know nothing about building an archer character.
A great player should be able to top the scoreboard no matter what build he uses.
I haven't seen a pure pitchforker top the scoreboard,
I haven't seen pure 1h no shield dagger users top the scoreboard, I haven't seen a pure staffman top the scoreboard, hell I haven't seen a pure thrower without a melee weapon top the scoreboard often, or a pure crossbow without melee weapon, I haven't seen a pure pitchforker top the scoreboard, I didn't see any 3/40 agi builds top the scoreboard, etc... I'm going to have to disagree with you there ;)
Anyway, I have seen archers postpatch on top of the scoreboard - the ones which in addition to shooting also know how to melee (or in really archer-heaven maps) as well.
When an entire weapon group put into the hands of a great player who is playing seriously cant manage to be on the top, then its definately underpowered a little.
The only input I have on this...
A great player should be able to top the scoreboard no matter what build he uses. You know all the famous players already I'm sure.
I see great 1h/shielders top scoreboards.
I see 2h/polearms top scoreboards.
I see cavs top scoreboards.
However, all the famous archers are suddenly no longer topping the scoreboard ever using pure archery...so it's probably a bit underbalanced.
I think a good judge for whether archery is viable or not is if players with shields stop raising them because they don't care if they get hit by an arrow or not
Btw, with a 1handed weapon you need 3 to 5 hits to kill a guy, with the risk that he strikes back.
I've been killed in 2hits by a sidesword when I was wearing plate armor.
one team had close to 15 archers. they formed a line and just mowed us down. it was ridiculous.
last night on the NA 100 server we were playing the map where one team starts on a boat, and the other starts inside a high walled fortress with a little river inside.
one team had close to 15 archers. they formed a line and just mowed us down. it was ridiculous.
... I'd like to see more screenshots of non-lethal headshots.Just "pick up" any archer (do you have a friend - archer?) and go to EU3 and make as much as screenshots as you want.
In above case - yes. It (theoreticaly) can be head box missed.
Because usually arrows showing on the head only when you are dead ^)
Now just try to make a headshot (in duel) while both opponents are on one layer (not shoot from top-down and so on).
And you'll see what even ideal horizontal arrow don't kill (depends of course... but I several times survived after 2 arrows in the head).
Google translate or your fifth grade english doesnt quite cut it. Here is a tip for you: Dont formulate sentences in your native language and then translate words.
Stop butchering english.
Here is a tip, do not be an arrogant ass on the forums and say things you would not say in real-life to someone's face. If English is not his/her first language then grammatical errors are to be at most pointed out, not attacked outright. Stop butchering manners.
Also if you are going to completely attack someone on how they are speaking, you damn best speak perfect English yourself. The first thing I noticed was that you failed to capitalize English, which is honestly either extremely lazy, or a complete and utter fail on your part for ignoring one of the most fundamental rules of English. Next, why did you say "Dont" instead of "Don't?" If you are using contractions, spell the damn things correctly. The list goes on, like your fascination with comma splices and other elementary mistakes. Good job being an example on how to type English.
Grow up and stop nitpicking someone for how they spell or formulate sentences. I knew what the poster was trying to convey, so I highly doubt you don't. Sorry to see you woke up on the wrong side of the bed, I hope the next day is better for you.
Look at this post for example, littered with many errors, yet still perfectly understandable... Honestly...
Time to move to topic huh?
The only reason that made me almost quit archery alltogether was the crap damage, i'm not expecting to 2 or 3 shot people, but for example this:
On the map (village by the river or W/E its called) i had these stats: 171WPF,18str/26agi 6PD,,2ath,0ps,8WM and these items: 3.5 weight armor (no head/glove armor), a warbow loomed for the second time and bodkins, what made me rage is... i shoot a ninja in the head.. he survives... a second later i shoot a medium inf in the head (kettle helmet)... he survives..both shots were close-medium range... i mean cmon.. people say aim for the head.. what for? I can live with the crap damage that we make,but atleast make headshots lethal...
Get a grip, what would be point of wearing helmets when mr.nobody with crap bow can one shoot people in the head. It's not CS.
Get a grip, what would be point of wearing helmets when mr.nobody with crap bow can one shoot people in the head. It's not CS.
Go troll somewhere else.
Actually, you troll. Head hitbox is rough equivalent of rl head, including head protection. Arrow, hitting such head protection, called helmet over mail coif over padding, can fail to penetrate it, change trajectory (ie. deflect) or inflic non fatal wound. Therefore asking for lethal headshots for AGI build is nonsense.
What the hell? You are talking about real life in this kind of discussion? In a game that isnt aiming at realism but balance? Look whos trolling...
What I believe is happening is the arrow is going through the head hitbox, not registering, then registering on the body hitbox. I've noticed sometimes the arrow will pass through the first person entirely and hit the person behind them.
Gamebalance tell us that something that is not too hard to do should not give great reward. Head is big. Archers have many chances to hit it. Helmets cost, lower your running speed, lower your profs. They should give something.
How many times do you get headshotten? Honestly? Only few people aim at heads and actually do it on purpose and actually hit anything. And im preety sure you arent using helmets only against ranged...*hint* melee *hint*.... about headshot damage... i would understand if the enemy was using a plate helm... but honestly.. a ninja (like 10 armor or less helm?) survives from the best 6PD statwise L31 archer possible? (almost no ath,no PS,etc)..
PS 6 ? Not best bow ? Against melee helmets are not good, at best they can make sucky hits from 1h bounce off, solid hits are one hit kills, 2h or pole hits are one hit kill too. Many times i was headshot'd .
Main problem of helmets is that they sucks against big hits, and all hits against heads are big hits, especially those with good speedbonus.
Problem of helmets lies in low reduction values and high soak values.
Hell, just go pd10, it gives you an accuracy bonus and kills everything in 1-2 arrows.
Hell, just go pd10, it gives you an accuracy bonus and kills everything in 1-2 arrows.
I hope you realize PD over bow req = accuracy right?
I hope you realize PD over bow req = accuracy right?
Against melee helmets are not good, at best they can make sucky hits from 1h bounce off, solid hits are one hit kills, 2h or pole hits are one hit kill too.
I have 6 pd for longbow use and 138 wp for archery and My reticule still wont let me head shoot people about 10 metters away.
edit: Only people who actualy play as archers should be allowed to vote on this one.
Oh god,what have i done so wrong with my 11PD spec for it to be so innacurate?
Backup what you have just said.
Maybe beacause with 11 PD your wpf is shit? Kesh did the testing, just browse the countless threads about archery and you'll find what you are looking for.
(click to show/hide)
I meant PD over bow req giving accuracy not wpf, i looked at the two as if they were same-so you are correct.
About fasaderp, just a small hint- he is the mod developer.
He still doesn't know how armor works, hell, Canary has LOGS of fasaderp saying himself he has no fucking clue how armor works.
Well i dont know about the armor thing, but after talking to cmpx and urist they both said that they arent sure about how the algorythm works so they pointed me to fasader.
The only one else that knows for sure is chadz.. but good luck getting answers from him :D
Apparently no one knows the game mechanics properly
Yeah but even then, like I said I have logs of fasaderp saying he doesn't know the game mechanics of a game he's part of, he's also an asshat.
Well you could also assume the fact he didn't want to tell you guys the info, afterall.. some of it is meant to stay a secret.
I'm fine with not being told the infos, but he blatantly said he had no idea how the armors worked.
And with the dev team this game has, I wouldn't be surprised if that was true.
I asked him the precise number that changed wpf bonus from plus to minus (the 200wpf 6pd>10pd 200wpf 200wpf 2pd>200wpf 3pd thing)
he was saying he doesnt know for a while,then he said he knows how to get the number with a formula but couldnt be bothered.
What the shit bro, in the PM you sent me why did you ask if it adds wpf, I never said it added wpf :/.
My theory is still proven.
FROM MTEMKO
After a hour of chatting with mod developers on irc i have come to this:
22:34:18 Fasader: 1pd 200wpf is worse in accuracy than 2pd 200wpf
22:35:49 Fasader: 6PD 200wpf is better in accuracy than 10pd 200wpf.
[23:04] <Mtemtko> What about this "myth" ,if the PD is higher than the bows requirement, you gain wpf?
[23:06] <Urist> No
[23:08] <Urist> there was a mathematical fuckup in trhe past i think, that allowed a wpf increase instead of reduce with very low pd
[22:43] <Urist> 1 wpf is probably the same for all pds becasue the formular cant lower wpf below 0
caps war:
[23:54] <+Mtemtko> TELL ME WHEN DOES THE BONUS CHANGE,AT WHAT PD?
[23:56] <@Fasader> I HAVE NO IDEA AND I CANNOT BE ARSED TO TEST IT AGAIN
[00:02] <@Fasader> but I don't know the numbers
[00:02] <Mtemtko> you just arent allowed to tell,but you know
[00:02] <@Fasader> I know how to calculate it
[00:02] <@Fasader> but I don't know the numbers
I hope this explains somethings.
FROM A GOOD FRIEND
Blue: Wow
Blue: Mtemtko doesn't even know what the fuck he's talking about
Blue: It was:
Blue: if you had PD x
Blue: and your WPF was beyond the 1:1 WPF ratio
Blue: you acquired BONUS WPF
Blue: the MORE WPF YOU GAINED.
Blue: That's why Kesh was able to MACHINEGUN
Blue: RATTATATATATAT
Blue: with only PD1 or whatever
Blue: Because the lowest PD = LOL SUPERHIGH ARCHERY WPF BECAUSE YOU ONLY GET PENALIZED TO LIKE 40 WPF
Blue: AFTER THAT YOU GET BONUS WPF OUT OF NOWHERE
Blue: [23:08] <Urist> there was a mathematical fuckup in trhe past i think, that allowed a wpf increase instead of reduce with very low pd
Blue: Urist is correct.
Blue: Of course, you didn't have to have very low PD
Blue: you could do it with 5
Blue: and lol i am an agi stacking fuckhat with retirement WPF bonus
Blue: eat my shit and smile please
Blue: 22:35:49 Fasader: 6PD 200wpf is better in accuracy than 10pd 200wpf.
Blue: This I call bullshit.
Blue: Fasaderp doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Blue: He doesn't even know how armor works.
Blue: Fuck his shit.
Also, I never said the PD over bow req gave any wpf, I NEVER mentionned that, not sure where you're getting that.
Blue is a color, not a name, so he cant be a friend!!
Unless he is ur imaginary friend?
If u stack PD u get inaccurate, if u stack more points in WM, then WPF u get more accurate...
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,876.msg11499.html#msg11499
Explain your lack of game mechanics knowledge Ragnar. EXPLAIN.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
I AM FURIOUS.
Until the new patch. Until the new patch. Makes sense, that really helps with figuring out how the mechanics work Post Patch. Thank you for your valuable information and imagespam. I now direct you to a board which specializes in your type of randumb posting. http://boards.4chan.org/b/ Good day sir.
RagnarLodBroke
Age: 20
Hehe.
Yeah well, what do you expect? Going from 219 wpf 6 PD to 100 wpf 7-8 PD, there's a reason why everyone is getting less wpf, exactly so everyone isn't accurate as hell and one hit everything (Which consequently still happens).
Also the way you type despite being 20 (apparently) makes me think you're the retarded person in the discussion, specially when all you've been doing so far was spam stuff like "umad bro" and post dumb pictures that would belong to 4chan much more than here instead of bringing in valid points to the argument.
And for the record, I'm 19.
RagnarLodBroke
Age: 20
Hehe.
Because you act like you're 8 years old despite being an adult.
I think you should confine your anger to the spam boards.
Because you act like you're 8 years old despite being an adult.
You also type like you're 8 years old.
its called having a sense of humor!
Im pretty much calm, dunno whyu think im angry.
Did u even take a look at the stuff fasader wrote? He is a damn Admin, and he's in touch with chadz most of the time.
And chadz is the "God" of this mod :)
As for the language part, I'm not english either so I don't see your point, there's no reason to suck at english so bad unless you're stupid.
I'm sorry, but you've got absolutely no clue of what you're talking about. You know that a spiked club (1H) can one-hit a guy without a helmet, while it will bounce or deal carp damage on anyone with 20 head armor or more? Roughly.
Great, it protect against peasant 1h weapons :rolleyes: Gurni, use some real weapon as examples, add in heirlooming, and count how many times helmet saved you from death (against 30. lvl player).
Get real.
@Mte: go on the battle server, take some helmet, and count how many times it saved you from death. Then check how many times you paid for repair.
Great, it protect against peasant 1h weapons :rolleyes: Gurni, use some real weapon as examples, add in heirlooming, and count how many times helmet saved you from death (against 30. lvl player).
Get real.
@Mte: go on the battle server, take some helmet, and count how many times it saved you from death. Then check how many times you paid for repair.