cRPG

Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: kinngrimm on October 22, 2011, 05:51:58 am

Title: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: kinngrimm on October 22, 2011, 05:51:58 am
this time we had only 29 slots ... i don't even want to go there to get a logic for 1406 vs 421 where the attackers have even less slots than i a 999 vs 500 battle.


- Battle time: 24.10., 03:01
- Battle duration: 14m31s
- Army size: 1406 vs 421
- Battle result: 1093 vs 0
- Winner: Attacker

Yes we choose an hour to play where perhaps less defenders would be there, guilty as charged.
So i fuck up my health because i think the 30vs60 rule is stupid, sue me.

For the partners and my Wolves i am glad we pulled it of that way, even with an incredable amount of effort we took into organizing this, it feels already as exhausting to me as it was in the last strat when Mercs & Wovles were constantly attacked.

I hope that usability, simply to use, of strat becomes at some point the main concern of the developers after they implemented most of the stuff they want to see in this game which deserves btw all our respect.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Visconti on October 22, 2011, 08:29:25 am
Hm, it really limits to attackers only having 30 people, while attackers can have 60? That's kinda stupid..... whats the reasoning behind that??
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Rhygar666 on October 22, 2011, 08:33:06 am
well sooner or later it gets in favour of the attacker, when they have better gear, (as the village doesnt get better, oh well only the Fallen Village (dont know the name), the one they attacked like 5 times and had Light Mail and Plate as equipment) but i mean most of the villages anyway.
In the end attackers get the advantage of euipment and can just wipe them out.
so soon in the round its ok that villages have an advantage, well it could be made a bit easier and adjusted later (when attackers just rape villages with low crappy gear) but i think thats not so easy to do too.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Kalp on October 22, 2011, 08:51:08 am
Quote
(as the village doesnt get better, oh well only the Fallen Village (dont know the name), the one they attacked like 5 times and had Light Mail and Plate as equipment)
Dusturil  :D
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Gheritarish le Loki on October 22, 2011, 09:56:30 am
before you say it´s ridiculous, let´s see how other faction deal with 30vs60, if they fail, then ok there is problem, if they take the village, then you´re just bad tactician.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: neupreis on October 22, 2011, 11:26:52 am
What you only need....are archers...Yes ARCHERS! Many of them!

And a good spawn defends.

Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Visconti on October 22, 2011, 11:36:48 am
before you say it´s ridiculous, let´s see how other faction deal with 30vs60, if they fail, then ok there is problem, if they take the village, then you´re just bad tactician.

hm... iv already seen a few factions fail at taking a village...
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Zaharist on October 22, 2011, 12:05:39 pm
hm... iv already seen a few factions fail at taking a village...
You mean Union failed to take Yaragar with 400 tickets in first attempt leaving them about 80 tickets?
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Kato on October 22, 2011, 03:30:02 pm
You mean Union failed to take Yaragar with 400 tickets in first attempt leaving them about 80 tickets?

this, where attackers have incredible amount of suiciders (everybody saw from what clans)

In tazjanut battle was about 80% defenders on ts, spawn was really close to village,
attackers havent good equipment, so easy work for defenders.

This strategus are neutral village defense a lot more fun than in strategus 2.0. Attacker need really good planning, gear, superior ticket numbers for taking neutral village.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Nebun on October 22, 2011, 05:44:48 pm
Taking villages become very difficult. And also depends on respawn distance.
I'de say take mostly infantry and if you got more tickets u should be fine.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Digglez on October 22, 2011, 06:07:44 pm
you spread your players, which consisted of less than half the number of defenders, over a large area and then wonder why you lost when defense surged forward in a concentrated fashion, directly to your spawn to commence spawn raping?

not to mention you had no cav to contain, delay, distract, disperse enemy infantry?


you're dumber than we thought
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: BADPLAYERold on October 22, 2011, 06:22:19 pm
you spread your players, which consisted of less than half the number of defenders, over a large area and then wonder why you lost when defense surged forward in a concentrated fashion, directly to your spawn to commence spawn raping?

not to mention you had no cav to contain, delay, distract, disperse enemy infantry?


you're dumber than we thought

Cav is too expensive to use and attackers are only allowed to hire half as many people as defenders so it isn't really their fault.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Nebun on October 22, 2011, 06:25:14 pm
not half, but 1/3 of what defenders can hire.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Casimir on October 22, 2011, 06:33:39 pm
ofc every sane commander would attack a village with 1/3 the number of the people in it, just makes sence.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Mala on October 22, 2011, 07:08:27 pm
I have fought on defense side and at first it looked like a common attack.
Some arrow rain followed by a few small pushes here and there.
So there were two options,  sit there and and wait to die or take the initiative and try a counter attack.
And most of the defenders have choosen the 2nd one, especially since your spawn was nit in danger and we had enough time to regroup for the final push.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: kinngrimm on October 22, 2011, 07:28:45 pm
i dont say that our tactics were good.
We had 8 Archers and i wanted them to take positions on left and right hill.
We had a small flancing/skirmisher unit of 3 guys, to disturb you so you wouldn't feel too save leaving the village and we had 2 disconnects. That left us with about 17 Infantry facing about 40 Infantry. As i didn't just want the main force to suicide charge, witch it would be, the plan was to face incoming charges while they got shot. The village was pretty close to our spawn as well compared to other maps, at the time defenders started continusly charging we missed to get closer to them but instead fought too close to our spawn so 10 min into the game we got spawn raped.

I say there is no balance. Why would you reduce possible participation in such an event in the first place? Telling 30 players to bugger of and do something else is nothing i especially enjoy! :cry:

So next time there wont be archers at all, sry guys but you have no place in a suicide charge which only tries to grind down the enemy.Tactics? you can expect tactics in a fight of equals otherwise it is just grind tickets down over the cost of loosing more as attackers.
With the current economic system i don't see superior gear any soon, so we are left to low tear gear which would be ok, even to loose many more tickets then defender has but, the inequality in numbers just sucks.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: SeQuel on October 22, 2011, 07:50:56 pm
Not gonna comment on this until I play in the FCC siege.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: bredeus on October 22, 2011, 10:50:36 pm
I was one of that 30 ready for service and unable to aid the attacker because this unfair for attacker ppl limit.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Keshian on October 22, 2011, 11:33:28 pm
We might not even have enough room for all our clan members that want to fight and we are only an average sized clan.  This really low limit on number of mercenaries combined with drastically reduced gold and massively increased upkeep and item prices make it so there are very few battles and even those battles not all our clan members can fight in.  For random pubbies there is very little chance to get involved in more than a couple strategus fights. 

What sucks about turning this into a trading simulator instead of tactical wartime game is that fewer and fewer people ever get the chance to participate in organized, fun battles unlike the battle and siege servers.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Thovex on October 22, 2011, 11:43:38 pm
We might not even have enough room for all our clan members that want to fight and we are only an average sized clan.  This really low limit on number of mercenaries combined with drastically reduced gold and massively increased upkeep and item prices make it so there are very few battles and even those battles not all our clan members can fight in.  For random pubbies there is very little chance to get involved in more than a couple strategus fights. 

What sucks about turning this into a trading simulator instead of tactical wartime game is that fewer and fewer people ever get the chance to participate in organized, fun battles unlike the battle and siege servers.

Exactly, which is simply just bullshit since last time we had 2-3 battles where we had not had enough slots for all of us, and now it's even worse.  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Corwin on October 22, 2011, 11:43:44 pm
It seems to me that there is clear intention of chadz and other devs not to allow easy taking of any fiefs atm. It seems that they want to force clans to trade, grind and craft. Because the only possible way to win with 30 against 60 is to have fucking great equipment and great balance in troops.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: RiPLeY_II on October 23, 2011, 02:36:27 am
C'mon guys, you're talking about tactics, etc etc. when the real point is that:

AN ATTACKING ARMY OF DOUBLE THE NUMBERS THAN A DEFENDING ONE, HAD TO FIGHT WITH HALF THE ACTIVE EFFECTIVES, while it should be the opposite...

It just doesn't make sense at all. And we are just talking about villages, which should be the hardest to defend. I can't imagine a castle. It is said by historians that to be safe that you could take a castle, you should attack with triple the men the defenders had (inverse logic that we are using now). With this system it's nearly impossible to take a city, while you have more respawns, defenders will keep on trying to take the attackers ONLY (yes, while defenders have many) spawn using its superior number, thats ... REVERTING THE ROLES OF ATTACKERS AND DEFENDERS.

Is an attacking army with double the size of the defending one supposed to be taking the MULTIPLE spawn points of the defenders DOUBLE ACTIVE roster?.. shit man, it should be the opposite.

Your roster size should be directly proportional to the advantage ratio of troops between armies.

If devs want fiefs to be difficult to take, they should do it in a logical way ... allowing fiefs to have better equipment, raising the numer of troops on fiefs, or modifying maps for them to have clear advantage spots. What we have now is an "easy way taken" that isclearly not logical, realistic or satisfactory for players.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: SeQuel on October 23, 2011, 06:24:55 am
FCC won the siege, I do admit it's pretty difficult to do - but not impossible. We won by a hefty amount.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Visconti on October 23, 2011, 06:55:55 am
C'mon guys, you're talking about tactics, etc etc. when the real point is that:

AN ATTACKING ARMY OF DOUBLE THE NUMBERS THAN A DEFENDING ONE, HAD TO FIGHT WITH HALF THE ACTIVE EFFECTIVES, while it should be the opposite...

It just doesn't make sense at all. And we are just talking about villages, which should be the hardest to defend. I can't imagine a castle. It is said by historians that to be safe that you could take a castle, you should attack with triple the men the defenders had (inverse logic that we are using now). With this system it's nearly impossible to take a city, while you have more respawns, defenders will keep on trying to take the attackers ONLY (yes, while defenders have many) spawn using its superior number, thats ... REVERTING THE ROLES OF ATTACKERS AND DEFENDERS.

Is an attacking army with double the size of the defending one supposed to be taking the MULTIPLE spawn points of the defenders DOUBLE ACTIVE roster?.. shit man, it should be the opposite.

Your roster size should be directly proportional to the advantage ratio of troops between armies.

If devs want fiefs to be difficult to take, they should do it in a logical way ... allowing fiefs to have better equipment, raising the numer of troops on fiefs, or modifying maps for them to have clear advantage spots. What we have now is an "easy way taken" that isclearly not logical, realistic or satisfactory for players.

Exaclty...... i understand that it needs to be harder to take villages, but this solution makes it so that clans cant even have all their members participate in a battle, which is some bullshit.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: kinngrimm on October 23, 2011, 08:16:27 am
FCC won the siege, I do admit it's pretty difficult to do - but not impossible. We won by a hefty amount.
what was it? 30 attackers against 40 defenders? wonder why 20 guys didn't show. Anyways if in our fight there would have been 20 less defenders my guess is that we would have taken it.

@Shodanius
not sure about Castles and Towns, as far as i know this 30vs60 counts only for "NPC villages", still your point is valid, if an army 2-3 times the defending forces, either the defenders give up and opened the gates freely or they were slaughtered.

So give the defenders better gear and in the case of our village attack the defenders had well organized ts on nditions, but reducing the attackers by half is just silly. Yes sooner or later we will take the village and i am looking forward to what others will say after their first attempts.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 23, 2011, 08:20:37 am
wonder why 20 guys didn't show

I payed them not to show. Interesting what a couple of 10K drops of gold will do.

Keep on rocking, FCC!
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: SeQuel on October 23, 2011, 08:57:01 am
what was it? 30 attackers against 40 defenders? wonder why 20 guys didn't show. Anyways if in our fight there would have been 20 less defenders my guess is that we would have taken it.

@Shodanius
not sure about Castles and Towns, as far as i know this 30vs60 counts only for "NPC villages", still your point is valid, if an army 2-3 times the defending forces, either the defenders give up and opened the gates freely or they were slaughtered.

So give the defenders better gear and in the case of our village attack the defenders had well organized ts on nditions, but reducing the attackers by half is just silly. Yes sooner or later we will take the village and i am looking forward to what others will say after their first attempts.

They also has gear 4x better then ours body armor wise, we fought a constant up hill battle (literally), and they had 12 extra players.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Nihtgenga on October 23, 2011, 09:07:53 am
what about the bows and swords? : ))
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Have_At_Thee on October 23, 2011, 03:23:19 pm
I actually frapsed the whole match but I can't upload untill the start of next month or my isp will cut me off  :cry:
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on October 23, 2011, 06:53:57 pm
I might point out that for much of the battle FCC was actually defending. We spawned down hill from the village, and the attackers kept pushing us back down the hill towards our spawn. Probably because they had more players, and better equipment (not sure about the bows and xbows, though).

Defenders suffered heavy casualties when they forsook the cover of their village.

That they could push us back so far, practically to our spawn, is kind of bad. I mean, we were the attackers, shouldn't we be forcing the defenders to desperately... defend?
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Nebun on October 24, 2011, 12:23:11 am
you telling us its unfair they had 10 members more then u? :)))

STR had about 23 mercs against 80

DRZ had about 31 mer against 80 as well :)))


I think Wolves fought against something like 90
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Fraemi on October 24, 2011, 12:48:18 am
Good to see how you deal with this problem by attacking on an early monday morning, your whining suddenly evokes a lot less compassion.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Dehitay on October 24, 2011, 12:57:40 am
Good to see how you deal with this problem by attacking on an early monday morning, your whining suddenly evokes a lot less compassion.
Yeah, how dare bastards that live to the east of us attack during early hours. What possible excuse could they have for waking up so early during our time zones?

I might point out that for much of the battle FCC was actually defending. We spawned down hill from the village, and the attackers kept pushing us back down the hill towards our spawn. Probably because they had more players, and better equipment (not sure about the bows and xbows, though).

Defenders suffered heavy casualties when they forsook the cover of their village.

That they could push us back so far, practically to our spawn, is kind of bad. I mean, we were the attackers, shouldn't we be forcing the defenders to desperately... defend?
You do realize that if they put on you defense, that gives you a massive advantage, right? You spawn closer to battle. You can pick up their nice village bought weapons to replace your piss poor weapons. You don't have to deal with them taking cover behind houses. Your archers can pick them off on their nice long run to you. Honestly, unless there's so few attackers that your spawn can get taken or the majority of your army is on the other side of the village, having the defenders run out of their village to attack you is pretty much the best thing you can ask for.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Keshian on October 24, 2011, 01:21:22 am
you telling us its unfair they had 10 members more then u? :)))

STR had about 23 mercs against 80

DRZ had about 31 mer against 80 as well :)))


I think Wolves fought against something like 90

I was at those battles and nowhere near those numbers actually showed up (more like roughly 50).  We had 46 against 30 at the height (petered down to 43 v. 28 near the end) in our fight and unlike your battles the defenders actually had horn bows not nomad bows and were defending on flat land rather than on top of a hill.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Nebun on October 24, 2011, 01:26:20 am
Dehitay, I didn't have to respawn a lot :))))

Keshian, i guess we live in 2 different realities and got different numbers on this case :)
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: kinngrimm on October 24, 2011, 04:55:47 am
updated
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Vovka on October 24, 2011, 08:31:02 am
  Contemptible little creatures just admit that BRD is the one coolest clan on strategus. 
All your problems are nothing in comparison with the same time, with what face this great clan  :lol:
 
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat
Post by: Fraemi on October 24, 2011, 09:00:31 am
Yeah, how dare bastards that live to the east of us attack during early hours. What possible excuse could they have for waking up so early during our time zones?

The current offset where I live is gmt+3 and the battle would have been at 4:00 for me, if the wolves even wanted to fight on 7:00 or 8:00 (around the time people actually go to work/studies around mondays) which is a stretch they would need to live in  siberia. Eu differences in timezones are more or not that large unless you are from England or Portugal talking to someone from Moscow and even then it's a 3h difference.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: SeQuel on October 24, 2011, 09:14:47 am
  Contemptible little creatures just admit that BRD is the one coolest clan on strategus. 
All your problems are nothing in comparison with the same time, with what face this great clan  :lol:

Pretty much.
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Prpavi on October 24, 2011, 09:47:47 am
gratz puppies!
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Matey on October 24, 2011, 10:03:09 am
  Contemptible little creatures just admit that BRD is the one coolest clan on strategus. 
All your problems are nothing in comparison with the same time, with what face this great clan  :lol:

Thanks Vovka! you guys arent so bad yourselves, even though you havent had to go through as many heartbreaking, gutwrenching tragedies as Kesh tells us we've been through :D
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Vovka on October 24, 2011, 12:36:57 pm
Thank you for your kind words guys!
we will write them on the cups from your skulls XD
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Matey on October 24, 2011, 08:31:24 pm
FCC + DRZ = BFF!  :oops:
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: SeQuel on October 24, 2011, 08:36:14 pm
FCC + DRZ = BFF!  :oops:

UIFNE 1.0







GO
Title: Re: Wolves vs Tazjunat v2
Post by: Lizard_man on October 27, 2011, 04:43:45 pm
It's a load of bullshit, in our fight we were ridiculously outnumbered, not much you can do in this situation...