what you fail to take into consideration is there is no more scaling.
previously you could have an army of 4500 defending a castle and each spawn would cost 8 tickets, so your army isnt anywhere remotely close to that size
what you fail to take into consideration is there is no more scaling.
previously you could have an army of 4500 defending a castle and each spawn would cost 8 tickets, so your army isnt anywhere remotely close to that size
It sounds like you don't understand what scaling was.
Previously if you had an army of 4500, you still had to equip every single ticket with weapons/armor/horses/etc it was simply a measure to shorten the game times. Not only would each spawn cost 8 tickets, 8 of each equipment you spawned with was consumed. I would hate to see a 5000 vs 5000 battle now without scaling, it could last an entire day.
Any1 of you played Silk Road MMORPG? Well, this is what current strat looks like.WOW
one reason to use 2500 as the army size is because thats how many troops are in castles... and its 5k in towns. if people are rolling around with 100-1000 troops and never any more than that... then no one will take a castle or town. and if its way to expensive to equip and maintain a 2500 man army... then yeah you wont see one.Except when those numbers get changed.
Not sure I see the problem, at least not via this example.
Why assume armies are going to be 2500 in size? OP basically proved that they are NOT going to be that large, especially if you want to use decent equipment.
Personally I'm looking forward to a lot of smaller battles. I also have yet to see discussions regarding how much money we can expect to make through trading. When we start seeing people transport hundreds of goods across the map to sell, we may have a better idea of the real income levels. I think a major point of the recent changes was to make cross-map trading be the #1 income source. It's also the riskiest.
Except when those numbers get changed.
"<chadz> castle/town pop/gold is work in progress"
From about 2 minutes ago.
Total cost for equipment: 106,073First, how are you getting such a shitty average of 12g/hr. I'm just going to assume that's straight profit, but that seems absolutely ridiculous, especially if you have a clan of 30+ players coordinating. Second, the extremely low ball "12[gold]/hr" causes you to have an obscure amount of manhours. This in turn throws off your "18x longer to equip a soldier than it is to recruit him" estimate.
Estimated gold per hour via trading: 12/hr (based on averages I've calculated)
Total cost for troops and equipment: 108,573
Time to raise 108,573 @ 12/hr: 9048 manhours
Total manhours: 9548 manhours
--
Time per member - 50 man clan: 191 hours
Time per member - 25 man clan: 382 hours
Time per member - 10 man clan: 905 hours
So at this rate a 50 man clan will need 8 days to raise and equip a 500 man army, assuming all members are active and working at 100% efficiency (ie just pumping out trade goods and recruiting, no traveling or anything else).
A 25 man clan will need 16 days.
And a 10 man clan will need 38 days.
--
The underlying problem is it takes 18x longer to equip a soldier than it is to recruit him.
12/hr is the profit margin.Yeah, the issue is that you're selling at the wrong places/times. Selling at a fief that doesn't have +3 or higher prosperity is pointless, especially if you have a ton of trade goods.
I used the follow calculations -
Selling trade goods to sell them in the village you gathered them in:
Cost to gather : 8 gold
Visiting fee: 5 gold
Sale price: 16 gold
Profit: 3 gold/hr
--
Selling trade goods in adjacent village:
Cost to gather: 8 gold
Visiting fee: 5 gold
Sale price: 18 gold
Profit: 5 gold/hr
(Assuming you can get there and back in an hour)
And I kept calculating at higher and higher distance bonus and dividing by the time needed to perform the action, moving the full distance for the 450% bonus still only netted 20 gold/hr due to the absolutely horrible movement speeds.
Of course as soon as I wrote this the visitor fees have changed to 1/hr so this is no longer valid.
You're just completely going about trading the wrong way by disregarding fief prosperity.
Yeah, the issue is that you're selling at the wrong places/times. Selling at a fief that doesn't have +3 or higher prosperity is pointless, especially if you have a ton of trade goods.
For me it was like this:
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 5(now 1) gold
Sale price: 12 gold
Profit: 1/5 gold/hr
But when I traveled to the closest castle that was at +3 prosperity, it looked like this:
Cost to gather: 12 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale Price: 24 gold (with only a 4% distance bonus)
profit:13/17 gold/hr(not counting the 1 1/2 hour travel time).
You're just completely going about trading the wrong way by disregarding fief prosperity.
Oh whoops, I used the numbers for the wrong fief, and yeah, that was calculated for 1 good.
At any rate, what you've just proved is that my original 12 gold/hr calculation is pretty close. Less if you are selling locally/trading frequently, more if you are trading far away/ less frequently.
Assuming the majority of clans will be selling their goods in patches of 25-50 within their general vicinity you can see that the profit margins are not all that impressive.
Oh whoops, I used the numbers for the wrong fief, and yeah, that was calculated for 1 good.I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.
At any rate, what you've just proved is that my original 12 gold/hr calculation is pretty close. Less if you are selling locally/trading frequently, more if you are trading far away/ less frequently.
Assuming the majority of clans will be selling their goods in patches of 25-50 within their general vicinity you can see that the profit margins are not all that impressive.
I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.
For example:
(Revising this to show the cost to gather from A and the sell price of B)
5 people gather at one location for 5 days
600 items bought
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 24 gold *400% distance modifier
Profit: 89 gold/hr(Because while you're on this trade route, those people never stop crafting trade goods)
53,400 gold total
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 20 gold * 450% modifier
Profit: 83 gold/hr
49,800 gold Total
It's important to remember that if you're not working alone, you're able to increase your profits by quite a bit since you don't have to stop production just to travel and sell your goods.
Initially you are crafting with the group. 21 people craft for 72 hours. You have 1512 items.
I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.
For example:
(Revising this to show the cost to gather from A and the sell price of B)
5 people gather at one location for 5 days
600 items bought
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 24 gold *400% distance modifier
Profit: 89 gold/hr(Because while you're on this trade route, those people never stop crafting trade goods)
53,400 gold total
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 20 gold * 450% modifier
Profit: 83 gold/hr
49,800 gold Total
It's important to remember that if you're not working alone, you're able to increase your profits by quite a bit since you don't have to stop production just to travel and sell your goods.
Your gold/hr is wrong because you're not counting the hours for the people crafting. Remember, there is an opportunity cost to any action.I wasn't exactly thinking of it in terms of total man hours, more breaking down your profits as a collective unit of 6 people, for the "unit" it's 89/83 gold/hr.
--
Siggy:
Interesting but consider that to get to that point you have to be able to front at least 10k to equip the troops to guard the mega caravan, 16k to pay for the trade goods, and then wait 10 days for a return on your investment.
And when you get back that 43,000 is only enough gold to equip about 250 troops. 10 days of the entire clan working together to equip only 250 troops is pretty awful.
Edit: The point isn't shitting on trade. I think its a great idea and way more interesting than working. What we're griping about is how outlandishly expensive it is to equip an army. The simplest and easiest solution is to reduce the insane cost of equipment and increase peoples ability to smith for cheaper goods.
I wasn't exactly thinking of it in terms of total man hours, more breaking down your profits as a collective unit of 6 people, for the "unit" it's 89/83 gold/hr.
That was for his first trip. His second, the full 10 days, ended up bringing the total to 141,288 gold. That's 600 gold per troop if you only have 250 troops, far more than necessary.
Yes but then you are comparing apples to oranges. You can't use a different metric to argue against mine.It turned out to be an incomplete post. The top part that I posted was in reply to the first sentence of your post.
Also, the 43,00 comment was based on Siggys calculations, not yours.
Don't forget that item buying is supposed to be 'last resort' - you should get items by crafting and trading.yeah lets have 4 diffrent weapomns of all kinds, how are you able to show them on the screen chadz ?
21 people crafting in the same village will not generate 1512 items in 72 hours. Snow has no effect on movement speed.
movement speed:
$speed = (0.25 * ($terrain['speed']/100));
$troop_influence = (pow($troops, $terrain['troops_influence']/200)/100); #capped at 0.99
$speed = $speed * (1-$troop_influence);
terrain look distance:
(distance_in_pixel/(($my_geo['look_out']/100)*($other_geo['look_in']/100)) < 100 )
terrain:
http://strategus.c-rpg.net/geo_calradia.png
movement table:
color
name
speed
troops_influence
look_out
look_in
000080 Sea 0 100 250 50
22b14c Plains 100 100 100 100
c3c3c3 Hills 60 100 140 140
ffffff Snow Plains 70 100 100 100
003e00 Plain Forest 60 110 70 20
008080 Snow Forest 50 110 70 30
535353 Mountains 30 140 200 120
00a2e8 River 0 100 100 100
96924f Steppe 100 100 100 100
697801 Steppe Forest 70 110 80 40
000000 Cliffs 0 100 100 100
f000ff Road 180 100 40 170
fff200 Desert 100 100 100 100
53a600 Desert Forest 80 110 90 50
b45e34 Bridge 10 150 100 30
Your gold/hr is wrong because you're not counting the hours for the people crafting. Remember, there is an opportunity cost to any action.
--
Siggy:
Interesting but consider that to get to that point you have to be able to front at least 10k to equip the troops to guard the mega caravan, 16k to pay for the trade goods, and then wait 10 days for a return on your investment.
And when you get back that 43,000 is only enough gold to equip about 250 troops. 10 days of the entire clan working together to equip only 250 troops is pretty awful.
Do we know for a fact that the number of people crafting in a city lowers the amount of goods you craft?
It lowers the villages efficiency...so yeah it lowers the number of goods you can craft. There were something like close to 10 people in Peshmi and it was down to 70% efficiency.
There are 2 different crafting values: The first percentage is a general percentage for this fief. It's a general yes or no random pick per hour. If this is 100%, you will get to stage 2 every hour. If this is at 0%, you will never produce anything
This whole system seems too capitalist and not medieval. In the middle ages you hire men at arm which are already armed. You get money by owning a land.
Land owners should hire mercenaries or lord in the vicinity, including their men and equipment.
If you have 50 people in your clan, it will take them each earning 266 gold every day for a month to make 400,000. You'll have to get the troops via magic because that is with all 50 going full for gold, 0 on recruiting.
Exactly my point, I don't wanna play a browser game. I want to play in battles and fights, not to mention how much money it takes to equip a army is only encouraging people to not go to war and either save there money or get more for better equipment.
It's come to a point where clans will be too scared to lose all there money and there pixels.
The game is called Strategus for a reason. It's not "Act-now-think-later-egus." Hence why there is so much "downtime" between battles, so that your strategy is always top notch.
I am really enjoying this strategus, significantly more than the previous ones. Everyday I wake up I find myself thinking about my daily plans on strategus, and how they will impact my future opportunities, for a week, or even a month ahead. Every path a single person wanders upon will heavily impact an outcome countless days away, when you are in a clan and you have 50+ people, the idea is to orchestrate everyone with such perfection coordination, that in the end, strategy will win over all. A truly unique and magnificent game.
I am sorry if you just want to mindlessly battle without applying strategy, but hey, that's what the regular c-rpg battle server is for.
The problem with making small armies be the norm, is that castles and cities have thousands of population and have default minimum populations. A castle, for instance, has a 1000 minimum population, I think. The city is 2000 or more. So 1000 minimum free defenders is practically insurmountable defensive advantage against all but the strongest of clans. You basically become invunerable to them because they'll never be able to field enough to take from you.
IMO in previous versions castles were too easy to take.Did everybody else mentally respond with an immediate WTF like I did?
One 2hour assault and castle is yours.
Thats not a bad idea.something like? recruiting in
If recruits came with their own basic gear that would be nice. Also maybe some hirable mercs or something with better gear.
One thing I dont get was the massive gold nerf and increased gold cost for items. In most of strat 2.0 we were fighting with low-mid tier armor, rounceys for our cavalry, lower end 1hers and 2hers with maybe a few mid-tier weapons in short supply. Why the massive nerf????
Now we will permanently and forever not have more than 2-4 rounceys or sumpters in battles involving 500-1000 troops. Its gone a little too extreme and has completely nullified an entire class for strategus. Im an archer and dislike cavalry, but this is fricken ridiculous and unbalanced.
I think it should be decided at a clan-level rather than at a player level, maybe something along the lines of the more players you have, the more shit you can craft at a discount, but the less # of masterwork or other high quality items that can be produced.
Then make it a minimum of like 10-15 players in your clan to do it at all, that way people don't just have a bunch of tiny guilds to print masterwork items.
Large #s -> Can choose to make lots of items at a discount, or few +1, +2 items.
Small #s -> Can choose to make a few items cheap, or a few high quality items.
Or, for every village you have you can choose 5 items at a discount(or 1 item super cheap), castles allow you to +1 3 items ( or +3 one item), towns give you a bigger discount to all items.
This way a small clan could use one village to fill a niche and make super cheap spears or whatever, while a larger clan would want to diversify in order to use the towns for its main source of discounts.
Independents could still fit into this by having the clan stuff be a part of the village they are in (such as trade goods), so when someone comes to an LLJK fief, they could craft anything LLJK has chosen.
:D(click to show/hide)
So they seem to have implemented these changes because they gave up on stopping people from multi-accounting. Wouldn't this just encourage more people to go out and use ghost accounts? $5 isn't really shit if people take this seriously (which is obvious a lot of people do).
This is sad because it would seem to be the easiest thing to stop. Also instead of rewarding people for playing cRPG they nerfed it into being fairly meaningless. You should be able to make as much or more gold in Strat by playing cRPG as you can sitting there staring at a web browser
You know that you don't have to watch Strat in order to make it do things, right? You can do other things and it still works. No need to sit and stare.Which totally wasn't his point.
You know that you don't have to watch Strat in order to make it do things, right? You can do other things and it still works. No need to sit and stare.
Who the fuck even buys multiple accounts of warband so they can make big money in strat? Is this some EU thing because I literally have not heard of a single NA player ever doing it, and I know a lot of SERIOUS strategus sperglords.