Lets talk about what it takes now to field an army in Strat

[SeQuel]

Oh whoops, I used the numbers for the wrong fief, and yeah, that was calculated for 1 good.

At any rate, what you've just proved is that my original 12 gold/hr calculation is pretty close. Less if you are selling locally/trading frequently, more if you are trading far away/ less frequently.

Assuming the majority of clans will be selling their goods in patches of 25-50 within their general vicinity you can see that the profit margins are not all that impressive.

This is also assuming EVERY clan and their members are 100% active like you said, which as we all know is not true.

So double all your times by x2 

[Tydeus]

Oh whoops, I used the numbers for the wrong fief, and yeah, that was calculated for 1 good.

At any rate, what you've just proved is that my original 12 gold/hr calculation is pretty close. Less if you are selling locally/trading frequently, more if you are trading far away/ less frequently.

Assuming the majority of clans will be selling their goods in patches of 25-50 within their general vicinity you can see that the profit margins are not all that impressive.

I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.

For example:
(Revising this to show the cost to gather from A and the sell price of B)
5 people gather at one location for 5 days
600 items bought
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 24 gold *400% distance modifier
Profit: 89 gold/hr(Because while you're on this trade route, those people never stop crafting trade goods)
53,400 gold total

Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 20 gold * 450% modifier
Profit: 83 gold/hr
49,800 gold Total

It's important to remember that if you're not working alone, you're able to increase your profits by quite a bit since you don't have to stop production just to travel and sell your goods.

[LLJK_Siggy]

I just wrote up a big long post explaining tydeus' point with exact numbers calculating gold per hour, but then I realized I made a mistake with calculating faraway bonuses and how far you need to travel. The formula according to chadz is:

round(pow($distance_percent*100, 1.28));

The max distance is 139 km. This is where I'm assuming you get 450%. The tricky part of the formula is the $distance_percent. It can't be 100 because that gives you an insanely large number. Plugging in 1, which would be 100%, gives you 363. This is much better but still not 450%. We need to figure out what this variable is supposed to represent since faraway bonus is exponential.

I'm sure it's not that complicated but it's like 1am here and it's making my head explode.

[Keshian]

I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.

For example:
(Revising this to show the cost to gather from A and the sell price of B)
5 people gather at one location for 5 days
600 items bought
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 24 gold *400% distance modifier
Profit: 89 gold/hr(Because while you're on this trade route, those people never stop crafting trade goods)
53,400 gold total

Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 20 gold * 450% modifier
Profit: 83 gold/hr
49,800 gold Total

It's important to remember that if you're not working alone, you're able to increase your profits by quite a bit since you don't have to stop production just to travel and sell your goods.

Cost to manufacture where I am at is 10 gold.  I went from Fisdnar to Kwynn (so somewhere between 1/3rd and 1/2 the distance of the map) and got a 115% distance modifier and that was a 20 gold base only because that village had a +2 prosperity rating.  (Definitely impossible to get 450% modifier).  It took me 3 and a half days of active travelling (and I was on a lot readjusting my routes to maximize travel on easy terrain) to travel that distance where 1 member of my clan - me - was not earnign gold, recruiting or doing anything else useful.  Also, if you have more than 36 troops you will be paying upkeep that whole time at a much higher rate because the troops are not in a village.  You can field a large enough force to take a village with equipment after 2 weeks for a 40 man clan, but taking a city/castle will be utterly ridiculous, you will never be able to afford the amount of siege equipment, armor, and weapons needed.

[LLJK_Siggy]

139 km is the max distance for faraway goods, so I'm assuming that is where you would hit 450%. I'm the snow my speed is 24.750 meters per minute. If the entire map was covered in snow, and I had a straight line for the 139 KM, it would take me 3.9 days to make a one way trip. Of course there would be obstacles, but I also wouldn't be travelling in the snow for the entire time.

I'd say consistently getting the 450% bonus is unrealistic, but it's hard to calculate how far you would have to travel to get an exact bonus, since the formula is exponential and there is a variable I don't understand.

But lets take your example. You were crafting goods for 10 gold, which is a bit high and you should probably craft somewhere with a lower prosperity for a higher profit. You were able to sell the goods for 20 gold base. Lets take your bonus to 100% to make things easier. This gives you a sell price of 40 gold. You made a profit of 29 gold per item .

Lets suppose you have a 40 man clan, but only 21 of those people reliably participate. You are making 21 goods per hour. Ever 3 days you take the goods they have made and transport them.

Initially you are crafting with the group. 21 people craft for 72 hours. You have 1512 items. You take off to sell these items. You have now made 43,848 gold. The total man hours spent crafting was 1512 hours, with 84 hours of traveling. This comes out to 27.47 gold per hour, but by the time you have made the return trip, your 20 people have already been crafting for 7 days. They have amassed 3360 items, which you can immediately pick back up and transport. This nets you another 97440 gold in profit. Your time spent was 3528 hours (7 days of 20 people crafting and 7 days of travel), which comes out to about the same gold/hour.

With only 21 people actively crafting you have made 141288 gold. If you had the full 40 you would make a shitload more. If you decided to spend an extra day or two travelling somewhere farther you would make significantly more due to the fact that faraway bonus grows exponentially as you reach the cap. There are great risks in travelling with that much gold or trade goods without protection, though. It's a gamble on how far you want to take it. This is where trade agreements and diplomacy come in.

[PhantomZero]

Initially you are crafting with the group. 21 people craft for 72 hours. You have 1512 items.

21 people crafting in the same village will not generate 1512 items in 72 hours. Snow has no effect on movement speed.

[SPQR]

I wouldn't say "pretty close" Especially when we're talking about a faction coordinating trade routes. The more goods you take to a far-away location, the more sell price becomes the most important factor to optimizing profit.

For example:
(Revising this to show the cost to gather from A and the sell price of B)
5 people gather at one location for 5 days
600 items bought
Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 24 gold *400% distance modifier
Profit: 89 gold/hr(Because while you're on this trade route, those people never stop crafting trade goods)
53,400 gold total

Cost to gather: 6 gold
Visiting fee: 1 gold
Sale price: 20 gold * 450% modifier
Profit: 83 gold/hr
49,800 gold Total

It's important to remember that if you're not working alone, you're able to increase your profits by quite a bit since you don't have to stop production just to travel and sell your goods.

Your gold/hr is wrong because you're not counting the hours for the people crafting. Remember, there is an opportunity cost to any action.

--

Siggy:

Interesting but consider that to get to that point you have to be able to front at least 10k to equip the troops to guard the mega caravan, 16k to pay for the trade goods, and then wait 10 days for a return on your investment.

And when you get back that 43,000 is only enough gold to equip about 250 troops. 10 days of the entire clan working together to equip only 250 troops is pretty awful.

Edit: The point isn't shitting on trade. I think its a great idea and way more interesting than working. What we're griping about is how outlandishly expensive it is to equip an army. The simplest and easiest solution is to reduce the insane cost of equipment and increase peoples ability to smith for cheaper goods.

[Tydeus]

Your gold/hr is wrong because you're not counting the hours for the people crafting. Remember, there is an opportunity cost to any action.

--

Siggy:

Interesting but consider that to get to that point you have to be able to front at least 10k to equip the troops to guard the mega caravan, 16k to pay for the trade goods, and then wait 10 days for a return on your investment.

And when you get back that 43,000 is only enough gold to equip about 250 troops. 10 days of the entire clan working together to equip only 250 troops is pretty awful.

Edit: The point isn't shitting on trade. I think its a great idea and way more interesting than working. What we're griping about is how outlandishly expensive it is to equip an army. The simplest and easiest solution is to reduce the insane cost of equipment and increase peoples ability to smith for cheaper goods.

I wasn't exactly thinking of it in terms of total man hours, more breaking down your profits as a collective unit of 6 people, for the "unit" it's 89/83 gold/hr.

That was for his first trip. His second, the full 10 days, ended up bringing the total to 141,288 gold. That's 600 gold per troop if you only have 250 troops, far more than necessary.

[SPQR]

I wasn't exactly thinking of it in terms of total man hours, more breaking down your profits as a collective unit of 6 people, for the "unit" it's 89/83 gold/hr.

That was for his first trip. His second, the full 10 days, ended up bringing the total to 141,288 gold. That's 600 gold per troop if you only have 250 troops, far more than necessary.

Yes but then you are comparing apples to oranges. You can't use a different metric to argue against mine.

Also, the 43,00 comment was based on Siggys calculations, not yours.

[Tydeus]

Yes but then you are comparing apples to oranges. You can't use a different metric to argue against mine.

Also, the 43,00 comment was based on Siggys calculations, not yours.

It turned out to be an incomplete post. The top part that I posted was in reply to the first sentence of your post.

To the rest, I have this, knowing it was about siggy's calculations:

You're forgetting that while he was out traveling to sell his troops, the other 20 people were still crafting trade goods. When someone gets a job as a roofer for example, and they get paid every two weeks but you don't get your paycheck until the third, yet you started working at the start of the second pay week, you don't say you worked two weeks for that paycheck, nor do you say it was a full paycheck. If you were to quit the day you got that first paycheck, you'd still have another one for that 1 extra week that you worked.

Again, I think you're looking at this situation wrong

Even though it takes 7 days to get money in your pocket, you're still creating money during those 7 days. So, in the end, every week those 21 people make 97,440 gold.

It's also worth mentioning that these numbers were far from optimal and from a rather low distance bonus, meaning you could make substantially more than 97,440 a week or 43,000 for your starting trip. That's 390 gold per troop, rather high for 250 troops.

Edit: With current prices being what they are(1/25 rather than 1/100) that turns out to be a rather shitty amount of gold for 250 troops. You'd have to make sure you were crafting and selling at as close to the best possible places you could.

[chadz]

Don't forget that item buying is supposed to be 'last resort' - you should get items by crafting and trading.

[Gingerpussy]

Don't forget that item buying is supposed to be 'last resort' - you should get items by crafting and trading.

yeah lets have 4 diffrent weapomns of all kinds, how are you able to show them on the screen chadz ?
Dont u remember the item bombing ? this is just the same due to all the diffrent weapons and shit equiping a 500 man army now takes  hours and hours of counting to see if u have all what you should, then the next days fight u cant even show half what u have.

aka

elite scimmitar
+1
+2
+3

see 4 different for each weapon armor. i dont think u thought about all when u made the crafting. what impact will crafting have ?
You realy need to put yourself in the payers site, and see how much time it all takes.

And maybe try yourself to equip a army from your clans crafting. Or even better try organize it all

Hey Mr ¤%&/()  you have to make 20 ladders asap 
other dude.: but chadz my town is atr fucking 20 % this 20 ladders will take atleast 2 days to craft
Mr chadz ohh wel my calculation is that the attack is in 11.november so go ahead
other dude. 3 weeks for taking a saml village )
chadz: yes its great all have to be in 100 man clans now even then it takes 3 weeks of crafting Wohoooo
other dude: im off to visit my grandmom, cuz thats more fun the playing strategus
chadz . Yeah fucking yeahh this is great. looks like this 1980 trading game i once tryed.

[Matey]

well i think the goal with smithing for gear is to standardize in your clan, and have only the guys who can craft the items you want crafting items...

[LLJK_Siggy]

21 people crafting in the same village will not generate 1512 items in 72 hours. Snow has no effect on movement speed.

Who said they all have to be in the same village. Perhaps nearby villages? Do we know for a fact that the number of people crafting in a city lowers the amount of goods you craft?

Snow certainly does effect movement speed:

movement speed:
$speed = (0.25 * ($terrain['speed']/100));
$troop_influence = (pow($troops, $terrain['troops_influence']/200)/100); #capped at 0.99
$speed = $speed * (1-$troop_influence);

terrain look distance:
(distance_in_pixel/(($my_geo['look_out']/100)*($other_geo['look_in']/100)) < 100 )

terrain:
http://strategus.c-rpg.net/geo_calradia.png


movement table:
color
   name
   speed

   troops_influence
   look_out
   look_in
000080   Sea   0   100   250   50
22b14c   Plains   100   100   100   100
c3c3c3   Hills   60   100   140   140
ffffff   Snow Plains   70   100   100   100
003e00   Plain Forest   60   110   70   20
008080   Snow Forest   50   110   70   30
535353   Mountains   30   140   200   120
00a2e8   River   0   100   100   100
96924f   Steppe   100   100   100   100
697801   Steppe Forest   70   110   80   40
000000   Cliffs   0   100   100   100
f000ff   Road   180   100   40   170
fff200   Desert   100   100   100   100
53a600   Desert Forest   80   110   90   50
b45e34   Bridge   10   150   100   30

Your gold/hr is wrong because you're not counting the hours for the people crafting. Remember, there is an opportunity cost to any action.

--

Siggy:

Interesting but consider that to get to that point you have to be able to front at least 10k to equip the troops to guard the mega caravan, 16k to pay for the trade goods, and then wait 10 days for a return on your investment.

And when you get back that 43,000 is only enough gold to equip about 250 troops. 10 days of the entire clan working together to equip only 250 troops is pretty awful.

I know this, which is why I said it isn't great, but lets consider this: if nobody can reliably equip 250, then you don't need 1000 to protect yourself. I think everything is initially going to take more time, but once the ball gets rolling things will get interesting.

[Overdriven]

Do we know for a fact that the number of people crafting in a city lowers the amount of goods you craft?

It lowers the villages efficiency...so yeah it lowers the number of goods you can craft. There were something like close to 10 people in Peshmi and it was down to 70% efficiency.