cRPG

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Gingerpussy on October 14, 2011, 09:09:06 pm

Title: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 14, 2011, 09:09:06 pm
Yet again strategus is changed, normaly i applaude the changes but this last ones... wel are totaly stupid and out of context of a war game.

Its time to call this game Tradus.c-rpg.net

Seriously, no gold from Crpg (at least non to speak of or make a difference even with 200 man clan.

No gold from fiefs at all, ALL done by trading.

I really hope i see a BIG change log soon or i believe your out of supporters for a trading game..

Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Lizard_man on October 14, 2011, 09:22:20 pm
I like the idea of trade caravans and such, but they should be automated...
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Beans on October 14, 2011, 09:29:19 pm
Manual trade caravans are fine, but there needs to be a easy automated way to make money. Obviously this should be less effective as people making/selling/shipping trade goods.

Right now I can sit in my shithole fief and make Eels.
Each Eel cost 10
Visiting cost per hour 5
Sale price of Eel ~20
Profit: 5 gold per hour

Why do I need to click produce and then have to remember to come back on to sell it before I run out of gold for the next batch? It is needless clicking that serves no purpose. There are no choices I need to review so there is no point to having me involved in it. They need to bring back the "Work" option to at least let you work for 5 gold and hour without having to micromanage selling Eels.


But not only did they DECREASE how much gold everyone gets by a huge amount, they also INCREASED how much equipment costs. Even with the hilarious trading dupe bug that people had they were doing thousands of trade goods and still only making enough money to equip 250 troops with scythes and leather aprons. With normal trading it would take over a month to raise that money legitimately.

Why CRPG insists on making such huge changes in duplicate I will never know. If they wanted to decrease the amount of money in the world AND/OR decrease the level of gear armies fight with only make ONE of the changes. Then you see how it all falls out and adjust from there.

Change variables in isolation, that is how you determine the outcome of your change.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Flawless on October 14, 2011, 09:32:10 pm
What? we have to make our money using a economic system and not through grinding? So you mean players who dont have time to grind all day can be successful?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Beans on October 14, 2011, 09:47:38 pm
.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: SeQuel on October 14, 2011, 09:59:56 pm
I don't think you should have to be SUPER active and micro managing to make money. I saw nothing wrong from making money before. I'm all for making less of a browser based game, not more.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Ujin on October 14, 2011, 10:41:51 pm
I'm actually all up for this game becoming deeper and deeper , introducing trade  , crafting , tournaments , fief upgrades etc. What you people fail to realise is that Strat is not based solely on cRPG and battles. It's like a single player campaing in Mount & Blade (which included all of the above) +the battles. I like the way it's going so far, if there will be an actual (better than now , ofc) economical system and fights for trade routes etc, battles would also have more meaning and reason behind them, not just "faction A attacked faction B because they don't like em".

And i could care less if it's browser or not as long as it's gonna be interesting.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Braeden on October 14, 2011, 10:44:08 pm
If you don't want to be involved in trading, logistics, faction management and other website things, and prefer to only fight in battles, I have an option to offer you.

Do that.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Teeth on October 14, 2011, 11:06:43 pm
I would prefer it not becoming too intensive to maintain. I liked how I only had to check strat once a day, click a few things, check your gold and be settled for the week. I don't want this too require too much clicking, constant logins and I don't want it to be hard to make the most out of it.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Overdriven on October 14, 2011, 11:58:58 pm
From my experience most players are actually happy only logging in once a day, if that. Most don't want any large roll but are there for the battles strat produces. The current system makes it a micromanagement nightmare in trying to get people who craft to hand over good's to traders ect. It means that people need to be quite active. I think there need's to be a decent alternative to trading to earn gold. It shouldn't have the profit potential that trading does. But there needs to be an alternative for sure.

You need to pander to both sides. Those who love to be active, organise things and do lots in strat, and those who are there to help the clan out, but don't actually want to do much. Currently there's no real option for the latter because troop farming is not smart without some wealth, but wealth takes a lot of effort to produce atm.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: dodnet on October 15, 2011, 12:35:42 am
I played one of those browsergames for several weeks where you build troops, attack at some time and capture villages. It was fun at first but after some time it was really timeconsuming, forcing me to do things every few hours not to fall back. I hope strat isn't heading this way.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: chadz on October 15, 2011, 12:40:20 am
You need to pander to both sides.

Why? Thats what annoyed me the most in last strat, hordes of inactive players that produce gold just because of their mere existance. Why should I add a position in a game for someone who doesn't want to play the game in the first place?

Strategus was never supposed to be "strength by numbers", it was supposed to be "strength by strategy". Having a bunch of inactive serials sitting around to define the gold everyone gets is not a game worth playing, let alone coding.

Of course, this doesn't mean that everything is perfectly balanced. Lots of things will be finetuned.

And for those who don't know what to do or how to conquer fiefs or gain money, read the guide here (tba)
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Erasmas on October 15, 2011, 12:41:45 am
I'm actually all up for this game becoming deeper and deeper , introducing trade  , crafting , tournaments , fief upgrades etc. What you people fail to realise is that Strat is not based solely on cRPG and battles. It's like a single player campaing in Mount & Blade (which included all of the above) +the battles. I like the way it's going so far, if there will be an actual (better than now , ofc) economical system and fights for trade routes etc, battles would also have more meaning and reason behind them, not just "faction A attacked faction B because they don't like em".

And i could care less if it's browser or not as long as it's gonna be interesting.

I love you Ujin, you touched the base here.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Tydeus on October 15, 2011, 12:45:32 am
Edit: Forget it.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Beans on October 15, 2011, 01:25:32 am
Why? Thats what annoyed me the most in last strat, hordes of inactive players that produce gold just because of their mere existance. Why should I add a position in a game for someone who doesn't want to play the game in the first place?

Strategus was never supposed to be "strength by numbers", it was supposed to be "strength by strategy". Having a bunch of inactive serials sitting around to define the gold everyone gets is not a game worth playing, let alone coding.

Of course, this doesn't mean that everything is perfectly balanced. Lots of things will be finetuned.

And for those who don't know what to do or how to conquer fiefs or gain money, read the guide here (tba)

The best way to encourage active players and toss aside inactive players is to increase the amount of gold gained from playing crpg. I don't understand why it moved the other direction.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: chadz on October 15, 2011, 01:28:03 am
because it kills trading.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Taser on October 15, 2011, 01:36:13 am
I played one of those browsergames for several weeks where you build troops, attack at some time and capture villages. It was fun at first but after some time it was really timeconsuming, forcing me to do things every few hours not to fall back. I hope strat isn't heading this way.

Tribal wars? If so I know what you mean.

I get you chadz and I actually support this. I do think there should be a low profit alternative though. Working for a baker/blacksmith/etc for 10 gold an hour or something. Enough to cover the rent and a little extra. Not profitable enough to deter people from trading but giving an alternative for people that don't want to get too involved.

It is your game though and you did say things will be finetuned. So let's just see how things go.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gristle on October 15, 2011, 01:45:19 am
Nerfing gold gained from crpg is not the same as buffing trading.

There are so many ways to spend gold, and so very few ways to gain it. There needs to be more options.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Goretooth on October 15, 2011, 02:30:42 am
I like the gold gained from playing crpg now doesn't need to be higher.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Tydeus on October 15, 2011, 02:34:19 am
The best way to encourage active players and toss aside inactive players is to increase the amount of gold gained from playing crpg. I don't understand why it moved the other direction.
That's not strategus activity, that's crpg activity.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: SPQR on October 15, 2011, 02:41:37 am
because it kills trading.

The problem is the quadruple nerf to gold production (removing working, increased upkeep, 4x equipment cost, nerfed crpg gold) has made gold SO RARE that no one can afford to use any of the new features in strategus, especially the average joe.

No one can craft items cause they can't afford to, and there would be no one who could afford to buy them even if they did make some.
No one can afford to equip a force large enough to take any fiefs.
No one can form caravans because the start up costs are too high.


Here are some numbers --

Cost to field 500 troops.
(click to show/hide)


Cost to field a caravan
(click to show/hide)

Anyway just to show how crazy the gold situation is - it takes 18x longer to equip a soldier as it does to recruit him.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Malaclypse on October 15, 2011, 02:42:39 am
As an alternative to trading, why not raidin? Razing a village without capturing it in some form or another, taking their wallets, raping their womenz etc.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 15, 2011, 02:48:54 am
Yet again strategus is changed, normaly i applaude the changes but this last ones... wel are totaly stupid and out of context of a war game.

WHAT?!?!

What do you think a war game is?

Two armies clashing on a field for the hell of it?  That's not a wargame -- that's a battle server and we already have that.

Proper wargames need things to fight over.  The more reasons to fight, the better.  Implementing trade routes in an "open PvP" world is the best thing a wargame can do.  It promotes a great reason for fighting: you took my stuff.  Or you took my clan's stuff and now my clan is going to run your clan out of town.


Wargames need a war and the best way to have a war is over a combination of land, resources and money.  Even Starcraft, which can only barely be considered to be a wargame, has fights centered around control of resources.  Without that, it's just a "battle simulation with a map".


It also means that Strategus now has the following roles to fill:
a) Trader.  Runs from town to town making money.
b) Crafter.  Sits in villages and crafts stuff, probably with money given to him by his trader friend.  (The trader may also be picking up these crafted goods and selling them to other players.)
c) Mercenary.  Rents his services to traders that get jumped.
d) Vagabond.  Jumps traders and steals their stuff.
e) Soldier.  Captures fiefs.  Also assists allied traders.
f) Recruiter.  Goes to castles and raises armies.


Most clans will have most of these functions and many people will do more than one thing.  For example, if you don't want to do trading then you may be handed money and told to go craft stuff, or raise troops, while additionally being on standby to join fights as necessary.

Without the trade system, you lose almost all of this interaction and have a much more shallow game, hardly worth calling a "wargame".
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 15, 2011, 03:11:26 am
Assuming 50 troops and 50 goods -

Time to recruit 50 troops: 50 manhours
Cost to recruit 50 troops: 250 gold
Time to gather 50 goods: 50 manhours
Cost to gather 50 goods: 400 gold
Cost to equip 50 troops: 10,600 gold
Time to gather 11,250 gold @ 12/hr: 937 manhours

Total cost: 11, 250 gold
Total manhours: 1037

I do think troop equipment prices are way off.

I don't think the value of your troop's helmets should grossly outweigh the value of the goods in your caravan.


Typical Strategus bandit conversation:
Bandit chief: "We are going to hit this trade caravan at dawn!"
Bandit noob: "I hear they are transporting ale!  How much does that sell for?"
Bandit chief: "You idiot!  Nobody cares about trade goods!  It's their HELMETS we want!  Those things are worth a fortune!"
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Overdriven on October 15, 2011, 03:13:15 am
Why? Thats what annoyed me the most in last strat, hordes of inactive players that produce gold just because of their mere existance. Why should I add a position in a game for someone who doesn't want to play the game in the first place?

Strategus was never supposed to be "strength by numbers", it was supposed to be "strength by strategy". Having a bunch of inactive serials sitting around to define the gold everyone gets is not a game worth playing, let alone coding.

Of course, this doesn't mean that everything is perfectly balanced. Lots of things will be finetuned.

And for those who don't know what to do or how to conquer fiefs or gain money, read the guide here (tba)

I just feel like the current system supports hoards of relatively inactive crafters instead. They just have to be slightly more active in making transfers...aka traders have to bug them to log in and transfer a lot more if you actually want to see the profit. But essentially they are still doing exactly the same thing. If one of them gets low on gold, then the person with the most gold simply has to transfer across to them to keep production going.

If anything, it just makes management harder, but there will always be people willing to do it to get ahead. Not sure how you could design it so that inactive players effectively become useless in strat, but with the much smaller player base due to only being full actives, adjust prices of everything so they can still generate the funds needed.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: PhantomZero on October 15, 2011, 03:28:11 am
I just feel like the current system supports hoards of relatively inactive crafters instead. They just have to be slightly more active in making transfers...aka traders have to bug them to log in and transfer a lot more if you actually want to see the profit. But essentially they are still doing exactly the same thing. If one of them gets low on gold, then the person with the most gold simply has to transfer across to them to keep production going.

Exactly
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: LordBerenger on October 15, 2011, 03:32:09 am
Strength in numbers = Might = Might makes right > Strength by Strategy
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 15, 2011, 03:43:41 am
I just feel like the current system supports hoards of relatively inactive crafters instead.
This is fine, though, because in order to have a hoard of people crafting, you must have a pretty good number of people trading.

This is where the fights will happen: intercepting traders.  The old system meant that EVERYONE was in towns, all the time.  The new system means at least some decent percentage must venture out and run trade routes.  There's a lot more potential for action.


I think the fear is, "I'm going to have to run trade routes!  I don't want to be a trader!"

Well.... don't then.  Clans will still need people dedicated to crafting and recruiting.  They'll also probably want people out running around looking for enemies to attack -- enemy traders, as well as bandits after your own clan's traders.

I think this new plan is going to be action packed once we get the issues sorted out.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slantedfloors on October 15, 2011, 04:15:36 am
I think this new plan is going to be action packed once we get the issues sorted out.
Exactly. When issues like "No one is able to maintain an army" and "There is no money" get fixed, I'm sure these changes will work fine.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 15, 2011, 09:26:31 am
because it kills trading.
Why do you never listen to the player base chadz ? only time u listen realy listen and cared was the split of EU/NA,

So please tell me who want to sit one to two weeks to supply a caravan ?

Good luck with ur trading game,, at least i get to play some other game in 10 days ....
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 15, 2011, 09:29:17 am
Here is something funny from Mercs Skype room, me rage quiting last night...

[14.10.2011 21:33:36] Mustikki: Ginger, you can always just stay at village crafting stuff and giving them to guildee to travel andtrade for money
[14.10.2011 21:38:47] Jann Erik: u need money to do so
[14.10.2011 21:38:52] Jann Erik: and gold u get from trading
[14.10.2011 21:39:07] Jann Erik: do a count up 60 troops is normaly 3 days farming
[14.10.2011 21:39:30] Jann Erik: then at 28 % Dhirim u get maybee 60 trade gods maybee in a week
[14.10.2011 21:39:46] Jann Erik: then 1 day walk or more
[14.10.2011 21:39:55] Jann Erik: sell and then u can strat playing the game
[14.10.2011 21:39:59] Jann Erik: its fucked up
[14.10.2011 21:40:17] Jann Erik: no point in having tiowns even
[14.10.2011 21:40:23] Jann Erik: just for crafting ??+
[14.10.2011 21:40:34] Jann Erik: crafting is very stupid and will bugg the game
[14.10.2011 21:40:48] Jann Erik: instead of 1 elite scimmitar u now have 4 diffren kinds
[14.10.2011 21:40:58] Jann Erik: what if u set up a army of trade gods weapons
[14.10.2011 21:41:10] Jann Erik: cant manage to show all in the game as we all know
[14.10.2011 21:41:29] Jann Erik: i mad now.... il go take a beer
[14.10.2011 21:41:39] Jann Erik: be back tomorrow when im chilled i guess


Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Jarlek on October 15, 2011, 02:34:32 pm
Question: Who is Jann Erik?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 15, 2011, 06:20:38 pm
Question: Who is Jann Erik?
That be me :P
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Jarlek on October 15, 2011, 07:15:39 pm
That be me :P
Hva faen! Vi har det samme navnet! Jeg heter også Jan Erik :D
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Osiris on October 15, 2011, 08:16:35 pm
I guess chadzs aim is that people play strat? previous strat was just for the leaderships of clans. normal clan members ONLY got to sit and press farm then press transfer when told to. How fun is that for most of the clan?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Thovex on October 15, 2011, 08:22:18 pm
I'd rather want to fight than play some browser game that says: "24 hour left till you can build a woodcutter hut" and then once a day check that, or that is how it feels like at the moment.

I don't care about trading and shit I just want to fight.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: PhantomZero on October 15, 2011, 08:24:37 pm
I guess chadzs aim is that people play strat? previous strat was just for the leaderships of clans. normal clan members ONLY got to sit and press farm then press transfer when told to. How fun is that for most of the clan?

Yeah but nothing really changed, now they just craft goods and transfer when told to.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Dehitay on October 15, 2011, 08:25:06 pm
I guess chadzs aim is that people play strat? previous strat was just for the leaderships of clans. normal clan members ONLY got to sit and press farm then press transfer when told to. How fun is that for most of the clan?
I don't have a problem with adding trading and I doubt many do. What's pissing me and several others off is the massive financing nerf. While having a trading option increases the fun you can have. Strategus 3 as a whole is more boring as battles will be more of a rarity at the current rate. I think equipment should return to its Strat 2 costs and trading should produce a bigger profit than it currently does.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Thovex on October 15, 2011, 08:32:24 pm
I'd rather play Evony (http://www.evony.com/) at the moment than having to run around like rabbit selling shit and have your armies melt away like hot chocolate thanks to upkeep.

WARFARE PLEASE.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Micromanagement = go away!
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 15, 2011, 08:35:09 pm
chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Killing the mod, obviously.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 16, 2011, 12:13:26 am
Hva faen! Vi har det samme navnet! Jeg heter også Jan Erik :D
Jojo kjempe navn det da :D
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Visconti on October 16, 2011, 12:19:14 am
I like the idea of trading, but with the gold income so low it seems to discourage battles, seeing as it takes so damn long to decently equip an army to do anything, why not still have the work function in fiefs, but also have trading as a much more profitable way to gain gold, so that active clans will have an actual advantage over inactive clans farming gold in a fief?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Keshian on October 16, 2011, 12:22:10 am
WIth all equipment 4x as expensive the reduction in crpg gold to strat gold was excessive and not needed.  The reduction near the very end of last strat was enough and had ensured peasant fights, now not only peasant fights but not enough gold for upkeep.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Matey on October 16, 2011, 01:28:01 am
now we can have tiny battles with fuck all gear instead of lotsa troops with no gear :D
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Snickers on October 16, 2011, 01:35:42 am
I'd rather play Evony (http://www.evony.com/) at the moment than having to run around like rabbit selling shit and have your armies melt away like hot chocolate thanks to upkeep.

WARFARE PLEASE.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Micromanagement = go away!

That chart is flawed.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: LLJK_Siggy on October 16, 2011, 02:33:11 am
I think you guys are all a bunch of big whiney babies. We need to give it a couple of weeks and see how things play out. Currently we are getting almost daily tweaks to the system and I'm sure in the end everything will work out fine. It won't be exactly the same as it used to be but will be better and get more players involved.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: dodnet on October 16, 2011, 09:14:36 am
If we don't whine nothing will change  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Oberyn on October 16, 2011, 11:20:22 am
Do we even know what needs change though? I've been making a nice ammount of money just through trading, or at least have been exploring different trade routes to see where I can maximise profit. The more gold I start getting, the more gold I'll make, just takes a while to get the ball rolling.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gingerpussy on October 16, 2011, 12:12:24 pm
Do we even know what needs change though? I've been making a nice ammount of money just through trading, or at least have been exploring different trade routes to see where I can maximise profit. The more gold I start getting, the more gold I'll make, just takes a while to get the ball rolling.
it takes weeks for the ball to be rolling Oberyn, to many weeks. This is typical tho. focus on the start of strat but never the end game as so many other game developers.

And with trading comes a lot of exploits so that means we most likely see many more wipes
and thats discouraging to start play then.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Xant on October 16, 2011, 12:21:56 pm
I'd rather want to fight than play some browser game that says: "24 hour left till you can build a woodcutter hut" and then once a day check that, or that is how it feels like at the moment.

I don't care about trading and shit I just want to fight.

Go on a battle or siege server?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 16, 2011, 03:01:59 pm
I'd rather want to fight than play some browser game that says: "24 hour left till you can build a woodcutter hut" and then once a day check that, or that is how it feels like at the moment.

I don't care about trading and shit I just want to fight.

I want battles to have meaning.  Not just "oh noes you took the village I guess I'm'a go to one of the other 87 nearby villages to do my stuff now" but more like "YOU BURNED DOWN MY BLACKSMITH I'LL KILL YOU".

The more invested we can be in the map, the more intense I think the war will be.

I mean really, people like you should just play on the regular servers until your clan leader says "time to fight", then you join the strategus fight.  There is no reason for you to engage in trading, ambushing, scouting, recruiting or anything else if you don't want to.  Pick a town and sit in it.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who will take you on as a pure combatant.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Thovex on October 16, 2011, 04:45:58 pm
Go on a battle or siege server?

You sir are dumb.

I want battles to have meaning.  Not just "oh noes you took the village I guess I'm'a go to one of the other 87 nearby villages to do my stuff now" but more like "YOU BURNED DOWN MY BLACKSMITH I'LL KILL YOU".

The more invested we can be in the map, the more intense I think the war will be.

I mean really, people like you should just play on the regular servers until your clan leader says "time to fight", then you join the strategus fight.  There is no reason for you to engage in trading, ambushing, scouting, recruiting or anything else if you don't want to.  Pick a town and sit in it.  I'm sure there are plenty of people who will take you on as a pure combatant.


As I said, I'd rather want to have more fighting and less micromanagement stuff like Trading before, right now it's just 99% trading.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Bjarky on October 16, 2011, 04:58:32 pm
battles have already started, let's see how this will evolve  :idea:
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Xant on October 17, 2011, 05:46:59 am
You sir are dumb.

You're the dumb one if you just want to fight and you're not going to the battle server :O
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Xarcenian on October 17, 2011, 06:05:47 am
I don't mind most of it but when I have 16 gold and im crafting at 43% efficiency with 3 gold profit, I come back with 14 gold? ... At least make the work/fail rate 100% , the 3 gold profit was including wait times, and I never got the good to sell...
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: PhantomZero on October 17, 2011, 06:22:17 am
I don't mind most of it but when I have 16 gold and im crafting at 43% efficiency with 3 gold profit, I come back with 14 gold? ... At least make the work/fail rate 100% , the 3 gold profit was including wait times, and I never got the good to sell...

Work in a village, you are losing gold due to missing hours and spending 1 gold to stay in the town without making an item.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 17, 2011, 08:05:17 am
I don't mind most of it but when I have 16 gold and im crafting at 43% efficiency with 3 gold profit, I come back with 14 gold? ... At least make the work/fail rate 100% , the 3 gold profit was including wait times, and I never got the good to sell...
How do you only have 16 gold?  Do you never play battle or siege?  That'll get you hundreds of gold in strategus (unless you are on the losing team every round).

Don't craft at 43% efficiency -- move to a village, especially an uncrowded one.  Seems like villages are all 100% efficiency until there are more than 5 players in it.

Also make sure you're crafting at a low prosperity village and then moving your goods to sell at a high prosperity village.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Slamz on October 17, 2011, 08:10:38 am
As I said, I'd rather want to have more fighting and less micromanagement stuff like Trading before, right now it's just 99% trading.
From your perspective, nothing should have changed.

Before:
You go to a town, click "work"
Hand your money to the clan so they can create and operate an army

Now:
You go to a town and click "craft"
Hand your goods to the clan so they can create and operate an army


What's so different about that?  From your perspective.

Of course, now clans need to move goods around but you only need a couple of designated "traders" doing this work.  You can also have scouts and ambushers to intercept other clans' goods.  But again, at the basic level, the average player can just go to a town, click a couple buttons and he's done.

If everyone in your clan is gathering his own goods and moving them to sell, then you are doing it wrong -- seriously.  You should be making goods and having one or two designated traders gathering them up and selling them, otherwise you are wasting a whole lot of manpower doing travel, when it could be used to make more goods.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Erathsmus on October 17, 2011, 08:23:48 am
From what I have seen, the pattern that the dev team seems to go by, is to make things significantly more time consuming.

Remember when hierlooms didn't take 100s of hours?

Remember when gold in C-rpg didn't flow out of your wallets from maintenance?

Now the same thing is happening with strategus. I do not think it is bad, but I think there is an overlying premise that the devs are trying to continue fixing...but the problem is cyclical.

Seemingly Dev ideas: "There are too many players that are the best, and no new players can join and have fun"...Solution? "Make everything much harder, so the player whom are the best are not rediculously good anymore."

I think this idea works in some cases, but we really should consider giving newer players incentives to play, without the solution being, "make veteran players/clans less scary."

There needs to be a line drawn so that everyone is at risk of losing and gaining immediate power. Instead of making power impossible to get, but absolute once obtained.

*Edit- Think of hierlooms, they are hard to get, but once you get them you have an advantage forever.
           Same with money, and soon it will be same with power in strategus.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Gnjus on October 17, 2011, 09:16:10 am
From what I have seen, the pattern that the dev team seems to go by, is to make things significantly more time consuming.

Remember when hierlooms didn't take 100s of hours?

Remember when gold in C-rpg didn't flow out of your wallets from maintenance?

Now the same thing is happening with strategus. I do not think it is bad, but I think there is an overlying premise that the devs are trying to continue fixing...but the problem is cyclical.

Seemingly Dev ideas: "There are too many players that are the best, and no new players can join and have fun"...Solution? "Make everything much harder, so the player whom are the best are not rediculously good anymore."

I think this idea works in some cases, but we really should consider giving newer players incentives to play, without the solution being, "make veteran players/clans less scary."

There needs to be a line drawn so that everyone is at risk of losing and gaining immediate power. Instead of making power impossible to get, but absolute once obtained.

*Edit- Think of hierlooms, they are hard to get, but once you get them you have an advantage forever.
           Same with money, and soon it will be same with power in strategus.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Uumdi on October 17, 2011, 09:25:59 am

Right now I can sit in my shithole fief and make Eels.
Each Eel cost 10
Visiting cost per hour 5
Sale price of Eel ~20
Profit: 5 gold per hour


Hahahaha, that got me man.  He crafts the best fucking eels in the world, no joke.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: dodnet on October 19, 2011, 12:25:47 am
The costs without an easy income are killing the game, especially for smaller clans. I do have 100 troops and the costs are eating up my money. I can't even buy gear. I get almost nothing from playing and I'm not willing to play for hours each day just not to go bankrupt. So is this game just about sitting around in towns making goods in the hope to sell them somewhere with profit now?

I have been making 8 goods in 10 hours now. If I calculated correctly I may be able to sell them somewhere at a good prize for a profit of maybe 8-10 per item. So i have a win of about 200-240 per day. So I need 100 days to buy a sword for each of my troops (they're still naked then!). Must be a joke?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Relit on October 19, 2011, 12:43:48 am
Over 49 troops you start paying upkeep. I suggest you lose some of them and start hoarding gold to buy equipment. You could also work with a friend/clanmate and pool your resources.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Overdriven on October 19, 2011, 01:42:01 am
The costs without an easy income are killing the game, especially for smaller clans. I do have 100 troops and the costs are eating up my money. I can't even buy gear. I get almost nothing from playing and I'm not willing to play for hours each day just not to go bankrupt. So is this game just about sitting around in towns making goods in the hope to sell them somewhere with profit now?

I have been making 8 goods in 10 hours now. If I calculated correctly I may be able to sell them somewhere at a good prize for a profit of maybe 8-10 per item. So i have a win of about 200-240 per day. So I need 100 days to buy a sword for each of my troops (they're still naked then!). Must be a joke?

Jeez. It's not hard. Earn money first. It's not hard for a small clan. If anything it's easier, I'd hate to be one of the larger clans organising their logistics. Seriously, get some members to craft, and get some to trade to far away places. Use the extra money to start crafting equipment. Once you have the equipment for the rough number of troops you want. THEN you recruit. Avoid upkeep at all costs until you have the equipment ect out of the way. Otherwise you have unequipped troops sitting around doing nothing whilst you're paying upkeep. Either that, or split the recruits up between your members, 49 per member, and equip lots of small war bands. If you need you can then bring these together in an army.

Simple management really.

You guys have lots of members all sitting in a village (Amashke), several with quite a lot of troops on them. You're paying upkeep for no reason at all and aren't even bothering to use trading in distant cities. Of course you'll be bleeding money. Strategus now requires a bit of...guess what? STRATEGY. You can't just farm stuff any more. It requires some organisation and recognising how best to exploit the resources at your disposal.
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Visconti on October 19, 2011, 05:40:10 am
From your perspective, nothing should have changed.

Before:
You go to a town, click "work"
Hand your money to the clan so they can create and operate an army

Now:
You go to a town and click "craft"
Hand your goods to the clan so they can create and operate an army


What's so different about that?  From your perspective.

Of course, now clans need to move goods around but you only need a couple of designated "traders" doing this work.  You can also have scouts and ambushers to intercept other clans' goods.  But again, at the basic level, the average player can just go to a town, click a couple buttons and he's done.

If everyone in your clan is gathering his own goods and moving them to sell, then you are doing it wrong -- seriously.  You should be making goods and having one or two designated traders gathering them up and selling them, otherwise you are wasting a whole lot of manpower doing travel, when it could be used to make more goods.

Difference is, it feels like it takes 10x longer to actually equip and operate an army compared to last strat, meaning alot less battles... which i dunno, i thought was the point of a war game...
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: dodnet on October 19, 2011, 08:49:10 am
Difference is, it feels like it takes 10x longer to actually equip and operate an army compared to last strat, meaning alot less battles... which i dunno, i thought was the point of a war game...

That's what I wanted to say actually. How long is strat up again this time - almost 10 days? As far as I have seen, there has been ONE real battle till now. All others are just 50vs30 or something like that. During last strat there were a lot of battles during the first weekend already. Is that really the purpose of a wargame?
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Erasmas on October 19, 2011, 12:02:47 pm
I believe that this will change in time. The amount of money in the Strategus monetary system is constantly increasing, and the money sink based on number of troops (high cost of carrying more than 48 troops) have not kick in yet. More money means equipment and after that - better equipment. Crafting will only support thisproces, and we will see masterwork stuff on battlefields.  Things will go a little faster when clans start to have enough money to take villages.

For big wars between clans we will have to wait a little bit longer, and they will look different. No more enormous armies traveling long distance. I bet that smaller clans will get their share of fiefs this time. The battles will be smaller overall.

Caravans, hunting them and fight for trade routes - that will be funny, and will dominate battles in Strat. Not sieges, or war campaigns.

And all that will surely take time. But will happen eventually. Downside - many guys interested in fights only will get bored. Others, however, will have to get better organized and have thrill form lack of control over current situation.

Overall new system may need tweaks, and economy may benefit from greater complexity, but my initial opinion about Strat 3.0 is pretty positive.

"Warband" not "Kingdom"
Title: Re: chadz, wth are you doing to strategus ?
Post by: Xant on October 19, 2011, 02:13:47 pm
Difference is, it feels like it takes 10x longer to actually equip and operate an army compared to last strat, meaning alot less battles... which i dunno, i thought was the point of a war game...

Which makes for battles with more meaning. If you lose a battle, it will take longer to get a new army, which means battles actually mean something. You can't just throw away your troops.