Pf.
Most teamhits are done by melee chars, because half the server is stupidly slashing around.
Why do you want friendly fire for archers only, when they are the smaller number of teamhitters? :rolleyes:
Also, reflective damage is silly.
I dont get why we dont have full reflective damage.
reflective damage is silly..
I might be taking this a little too personally but ranged friendly fire is normally the fault of the person who was hit by it, now, don't get me wrong, there are loads of times I have fired into melee and hit my teammate, ironically it's normally 5 to 1 odds against my ally, the soul reason for me shooting to help him out but in reality, the main reason we don't have reflective damage is because you don't want to punish the better players in order to save a peasant.I am all against any kinds of reflective damage, but this argumentation sucks IMO. Peasant deaths are Ok as long as you help the team? no thanks.
For example, if I shot into melee where I hit an allied peasant, with no reflective, i'd kill the poor bastard and have more of a chance of taking out the enemy with a sorry shortly followed, yes i've ruined that guys game, but he will get over it and he might even get a multi for it while if it was reflective, it would have killed me, the peasant would have stood no chance and had his arms ripped off by the angry flamberge wielding, pot helm wearing, dagger throwing strength ninjas and there would be less of a chance for the team to win.
It's the same for melee, as people have said, more team damage is done by melee than it is by ranged, therefore, if for example, lets say... Tor... He swings and a peasant dives in the way, he gets the epic damage from his ridiculous axe and cuts himself in half, yeah, peasant gets away fine, ripped apart by the enemy while Tor can't go on his 10 kill streaks.
Not a great idea, reflective is a good idea in theory, but bad in practice because it punishes people who don't deserve to be punished.
I am all against any kinds of reflective damage, but this argumentation sucks IMO. Peasant deaths are Ok as long as you help the team? no thanks.
Read a little more into it... I didn't say they were ok, I said that being punished for a mistake and then coupled with punishing your team at the same time isn't good for being able to punish a few who intentionally teamattack.mh, maybe I'm too pricky on that but I still don't like the sound of your argument.
It's not a matter of "it's ok to kill peasants if it helps your team" it's a matter of how best to punish the people intentionally teamattacking without punishing all the others who don't do it intentionally, whether or not directly or indirectly.
I'm sure this point has been covered thousands of times but what is wrong with reflective damage? They guy that makes the mistake gets punished by it, instead of the unlucky bystander. No more getting killed because your teammate hits you and interrupts your block just before the enemy's flamberge will cleave your head.Its ugly.
No reflective damage. It is horrible.these arguments sounds good, eh?
I might be taking this a little too personally but ranged friendly fire is normally the fault of the person who was hit by it
... For example, if I shot into melee where I hit an allied peasant, with no reflective, i'd kill the poor bastard and have more of a chance of taking out the enemy with a sorry shortly followed...
if it was reflective, it would have killed me, the peasant would have stood no chance ...
Lol, when will you archers learn not to shoot into melee? Especially when you're not godly aimer and do hit teammates. When I get struck by friendly arrow while in combat usually after the fight I just come up to the archer and explain to him how it feels like. With steel, that is.
Nothing is more fucking infuriating than ranged twats thinking they're entitled to screwing into every fight and going for every kill they have slightest chance of making. Even cav.
Nothing is more frustrating than a killhorny guy with a big sword rushing into every fight, hitting around blindly and killing/hurting his teammates. :rolleyes:
Maybe you don't like the 'sound' of this argument, but it's a very valid point. You try to help team mates and you have to take calculated risks sometimes.
Helping your team mates as an archer means you might sometimes shoot your team mate by accident. Both the enemy and the team mate you are trying to save are moving erratically and even though you try your best to take safe shots, sometimes you just fail.
Same goes for cavalry players. You try and bump and bump-slash enemies engaged in melee. This works very well, but sometimes you screw up the timing or a team mate doesn't see you coming and 'jumps' under your horse, gets bumped and dies.
And the same goes for infantry. Sometimes, when you're trying to save a team mate, you accidentally hit that team mate instead. I'm sure it's happened.
Any form of reflective damage breaks this part of the game.
Besides, the person causing the team kill is often punished enough. The shame of causing the team kill, the occasional angry team mate, having to say sorry and a decrease in the chance to win that round, possibly even losing a multiplier because of that.
Team kills happen. You have to take calculated risks in this game. Asking for reflective damage on ranged only is biased and a silly fix for a problem that does not exist.
I'm against all forms of reflective damage. Punishment for occasional accidental team kills is lame. Losing a team mate is punishment enough.
The problem with this argument that's being put forth here, i think, is the implication that the ranged team kills are intentional or at least the ranged players don't care. He is wrong. It sucks to shoot a team mate.
First of all, an archer will never know how its like to have a super close fight and lose because struck by an arrow because he's just sitting on the hill and shooting.
Secondly, being teamhit by melee is the risk of going into clusterfuck with teammates, often it's not fighers choice that he accidentally hits teammate. Ranged newbies on the other hand always make a conscious decision to shoot into melee. What you can never compensate for while fighting is that you might be hit by an arrow shot by some dumbass Legolas-wannabie and who just can't sit tight and wait for opportunity/take care of enemy ranged or cav instead of ruining melee fights for his teammates.
The problem is ranged will never have the incentive to get better and stop shooting into melee because they are not being punished for it.
Reflective damage for everyone. In one stroke you completely remove the concept of team killing.I disagree, team killing will still occur through griefing or poorly positioned teammates (example, headshotting a friendly who runs right in front of me when I'm obviously aiming at someone = me dying instantly). Griefing will still have its place, it will just be harder for admins to enforce since it is much easier to ban someone for team wounding than it is to ban someone for "intentionally" getting in the way of someone's swings/projectiles/horse.
Reflective damage for everyone. In one stroke you completely remove the concept of team killing.
EDIT: That's what admins are there for, to punish the idiots who think it's ok to teamattack/kill intentionally.
Just to rid people of getting hit by archery fire because of a miss-shot would lead to mass griefing of people intentionally jumping in the way of arrows in order to cause the firing archer harm. That's another negative on reflective damage of any kind, it would increase the work load of admins for one thing and it would increase the amount of griefing, and instead of having Teamwounding/Teamkilling collectively being the main banning, it would have griefing.
b) it rarely kills the victim. In melee you at least know which idiot hit you, anonymous arrow in the back doesnt tell much but screws everything. Ranged just gets away with it.Hmm good point. I think the only logical solution to this is to buff ranged so they 1 shot kill everything. Then it will be easier to tell who tk'd you!
I'm for reflective damage , thinking its a tuffer job for admins to track on is silly imo , will i kill myself sometimes with reflective damage ? of course
but its mostly my own fault ,
I know some tin cans would cry to hit a peasant by mistake and die nullifing their precious crutch , people would learn WAY MORE not to sideswing all over the place if they die, spare me the guy who jump and you get killed in the process... here is a great tip for that :
Tap the freaking right click and dont swing like you are some berserker , when 4 of your guys are going for 1 fighter , dont join the fray !
I have to ask archers not to help me in a melee fight because im imprevisible in my movements... usually my rule for that is :
More than 3 on me then you can shoot as much as you want ,
3 or lower i dont need your fucking help! , thank you :D , i enjoy being surrounded its easier to kill when people are lowering their defense
I know some tin cans would cry to hit a peasant by mistake and die nullifing their precious crutch , people would learn WAY MORE not to sideswing all over the place if they die, spare me the guy who jump and you get killed in the process... here is a great tip for that :
Tap the freaking right click and dont swing like you are some berserker , when 4 of your guys are going for 1 fighter , dont join the fray !
Directing towards the admin part of that, it sure as hell is much easier to tell who intentionally tk'd someone than it is to find out who was jumping in front of someones arrows intentionally in order to in effect, grief them to death with reflective damage. I'm sorry to say but first hand experience of CoDMW admining when the owners changed the server to reflective damage was annoying as shit to discover who was being an arse and jumping into peoples fire rather than someone who intentionally teamkilled someone who might have accidentally teamkilled the round before etc etc.
People always say that cRPG is becoming Counter Strike for all the range but without going down that route, the similarities to jumping in the way of projectiles in order to reflect the damage onto the projectile user is much harder to work out who intentionally griefed to those who didn't.
Range normally keeps out of the fights and therefore has no enemies around, if an ally jumps in the way then they get hit, reflecting the damage, this could have been a mistake but if it wasn't and you didn't see it, you've only got the guy who was killed by it, word. If someone teamkills you with range or even melee when there's no one around, it's a lot easier to find out who intentionally did it than who didn't by the fact that for a start you get the persons name pop up telling you that he's the person who actually did it. From there you investigate...
Currently, in big melee fights the people in a spot to do damage to the enemy need to be careful with their positioning. Meanwhile a bunch of kill-hungry monkeys are in the back and are the cause for a bunch of the teamwounds do to reckless swings.
I would guess that secretly, all you eejits clamouring for this stupid mechanic just want to be able to grief archers without having the message broadcast for all to see -> 'You tk'd Archer'.:lol:
To think it would somehow improve melee, allowing players to carelessly run in front of the guy fighting for his life with a flamberge. Again, give yer head a shake. Then go boil it.
Bunch of scrubs.
Years old idea is still a stupid idea. I guess it is new to some people - maybe if you experienced how easy it is to grief with FF you would STFU about it - jumping in front of an archer to make him headshot himself with FF on - oooh the good old days.
I would guess that secretly, all you eejits clamouring for this stupid mechanic just want to be able to grief archers without having the message broadcast for all to see -> 'You tk'd Archer'.
To think it would somehow improve melee, allowing players to carelessly run in front of the guy fighting for his life with a flamberge. Again, give yer head a shake. Then go boil it.
You should give props to the enemy who causes the friendly fire by clever maneuvering.
this is the ultimate solution. it prevents archers from shooting noobish into melees, but doesnt disturb the infantry by doing their work..
good idea/bad idea?
Yeah it's is true that melee team hits alot more than ranged. Ranged however brings the rage when it rarely happens since it's not necessary.
its a solution for noobish careless ranged fire ! GET THAT !
I think you are giving extreme exemples where it could happen , instead of taking the reasonable approach to a problem thats been here since forever ,Nay. I was in the beta with FF.. trust me it was griefer paradise.
People are careless without FF , they are way more careful with FF , fuck i know i am more careful with FF !
Whats wrong asking people to be careful ? oh yes i forgot nobody gives a shit... so the TK is KING
Most archers and other ranged care a lot about team hits. Adding reflective damage is just going to be annoying and gamebreaking for them.
Nay. I was in the beta with FF.. trust me it was griefer paradise.
Responsible is looking at a so called solution and discarding it as more harmful then helpful.
I usually draw more FF then I accidentally hand out - due to my playstyle. So, I accept that. I also love how killing a team mate or getting tk'd sends the message war is hell - and anybody can get unlucky.
If you die to FF, laugh and move on, it's still a game.
I think a gold/xp penalty is lame too.
There already IS a gold/xp/multi penalty in the game. If you team wound or TK, you weaken your team. If the team is weakened enough, it won't win. THen you lose your multi/xp bonus. It's already built in.
I think a gold/xp penalty is lame too.
There already IS a gold/xp/multi penalty in the game. If you team wound or TK, you weaken your team. If the team is weakened enough, it won't win. THen you lose your multi/xp bonus. It's already built in.
That's a good point, though. However, i sense the OP and others want to see some direct negative effect to befall the accidental tker, besides a small chance that the multi will drop.
I think a gold/xp penalty is lame too.
There already IS a gold/xp/multi penalty in the game. If you team wound or TK, you weaken your team. If the team is weakened enough, it won't win. THen you lose your multi/xp bonus. It's already built in.
So I voted yes for reflective FF for ranged, normal FF for melee, I assume this is possible atleast with the WSE. Then maybe these archer heroes will think twice about shooting into a melee fight. :lol:
Mr Shine is right. :o
Any tk penalty can be used for griefing. Just step into their swing / line of fire at the right time and *boom*, gotcha. Hahah, i made you lose xp and gold.
No way around that, i think. :?
the fact an archer will almost always have a target on the field that he can fire at without risking hitting a team mate, which is what he should be doing.
This is practically all that is needed to know to state that reflective damage is no good. I stand by Phazh's comments like a fanboi on this one, a much clearer and better way of saying what I wanted to say and failed to do.Well yeah, kind off misunderstood you there then.
Well yeah, kind off misunderstood you there then.
To the sound of Phaz!