cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torp on February 01, 2011, 03:45:54 pm
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arent there any 1h weapons with crushthrough?
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No, that would be ridiculous :P
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no, only with knockdown ...
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Nope, but u have some knockdown 1h weapons.
EDIT: i never listen to that damn warning about new reply :D
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Nope, it'd be nice though.
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i was looking for one on my spartan alt (yes, i know spartans didnt have big-ass crushthrough weapons, but i'd be fun)
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Crushthrough is the worst mechanic left in the game. BOOOOO CRUSHTHROUGH YOU STINK.
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crushthrough should be removed :/
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Agreed. Crusthrough is inappropriate for this module. I'd like to see it gone as well.
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It'd be nice if there were some skill-based way to block crush through, besides a chamber. Aiming a shield up, for instance (thus exposing your legs and feet.)
I've found sidestepping works pretty well against big overhand weapons in all but tight confines. If that's the case and you're against an opponent wielding a crush through weapon in a narrow alley, you're in their prime territory I'm afraid. It's like facing a cav in the open, or an archer who is on a hill and you've got no shield. Find some way to get them out in the open, or die.
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well i'd leave crushthrough but only for 2h and 1h without shield polearms and shields should be able to block it
cant beat physics :wink:
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Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.
Gazda: If anything, only shields should not be able to block it. Crushthrough is the anti-shield, their only weakness.
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Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.
Gazda: If anything, only shields should not be able to block it. Crushthrough is the anti-shield, their only weakness.
Besides range and lack of high damage of course.
Crushtrough makes it possible to kill those uber blockers if they fuck up, makes games go a lot faster.
However I think crush trough should somehow be reserved for high str characters.
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Crush through is not supposed to be here? next thing you'll say is bonus against shields is bad? Then plate is bad, then stats arnt enough, you know how much wining the people have to handle, just answer a question and dont go talking about random stuff.
Also on the topic of the question: I think 1 handers dont have crush-through because they are 1 handed weapons, they dont hit as hard and as strong as 2 handers so they dont have certain bonuses or advantages, or even certain disadvantages and nerfs.
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Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.
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I really don't understand the venom in so many anti-crushthrough people. The two most popular crushthrough weapons are the bar mace and great maul - two effective yet definitely opposable weapons. Either build, taken to the extreme, lends itself to certain weaknesses, such as a full strength build being outmaneuvered or a tin can being lanced/xbow-ed. One-on-one both both weapons can be beaten by a swift player who can land strong hits, and in the midst of combat by a creeping player that can hit faster than they can block or dodge. Crushthrough is a considerably dangerous mechanic but one inextricably linked to class-based weaknesses.
Crushthrough itself isn't OP but 1h+crushthrough likely would be.
Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.
Also this.
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Besides range and lack of high damage of course.
Crushtrough makes it possible to kill those uber blockers if they fuck up, makes games go a lot faster.
However I think crush trough should somehow be reserved for high str characters.
1h lacks high damage? Lawl.
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Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.
I did not know that, I thought they were chamber-able. Thanks for clearing that up!
I agree that it should go through shields. I don't know about going through shields AND knocking down, though, or doing as much damage as it does. I think maybe if the damage was reduced by 25% and the knockdown changed to a stagger, it'd be a little more bearable for people. Most casual players don't recognize the visual difference between a hammer and a sword until they're on the ground getting mashed wondering why their block didn't work.
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but no way a 2h can block 9kg hammer, blocking with 2h is simple lever system
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But no way can a 9kg hammer block an attack from something as long, well balanced and light as a normal 2h sword.
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but no way a 2h can block 9kg hammer, blocking with 2h is simple lever system
sword can deflect it. Beside, there was no 9kg hammers used in actual war.
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The only weapons which really annoy me are the fast crushing weapons, like heirloomed barmaces / iron maces. Hammers are slow.
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If the animation for this engine was a little tighter, and I didn't think controls were hard-coded (I think they are) it'd be awesome to add a side-step action by double-tapping "A" or "S" - that way you can "counter" crush through blows (and all overhand swings/thrusts for that matter) but you'd have to be quick on your feet.
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Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.
I agree with your statement, as stated by me on the post above yours. :mrgreen:
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seems to me 1h weapons are powerful enough as is, iirc the steel pick can do up to 39 pierce damage when heirloomed.
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seems to me 1h weapons are powerful enough as is, iirc the steel pick can do up to 39 pierce damage when heirloomed.
One could even argue that the steel pick does way too much damage...
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Once when I was a peasant, my block was crushed by a morningstar+shield tincan. It also killed me.
So get 10 PS and grab a morningstar :)
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Once when I was a peasant, my block was crushed by a morningstar+shield tincan. It also killed me.
So get 10 PS and grab a morningstar :)
Too bad they removed morning star's crush through and replaced it with bonus to shield
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If the animation for this engine was a little tighter, and I didn't think controls were hard-coded (I think they are) it'd be awesome to add a side-step action by double-tapping "A" or "S" - that way you can "counter" crush through blows (and all overhand swings/thrusts for that matter) but you'd have to be quick on your feet.
Side steppign is near useless agaisnt players that know how to counter it. Youknow the people who overhead then just roll left/right and youstill get smashed anyhow. So many times Ive gotten hit by this "loloverhead" while their weapons animation was on the ground but apprantly not at an end.
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One could even argue that the steel pick does way too much damage...
It's too long too. 64 cm. Waaaay too long.
The regular steel pick is fine imo, but the 3rd gen heirloomed deals 39 pierce damage, which is a bit excessive. With a 12 strength requirement, you can build a 12/24 agility build and still hurt people A LOT. The 24 agility gives access to 8 athletics and 8 WM, making a 102 speed - 39 pierce damage weapon a bit powerfull.
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It's too long too. 64 cm. Waaaay too long.
The regular steel pick is fine imo, but the 3rd gen heirloomed deals 39 pierce damage, which is a bit excessive. With a 12 strength requirement, you can build a 12/24 agility build and still hurt people A LOT. The 24 agility gives access to 8 athletics and 8 WM, making a 102 speed - 39 pierce damage weapon a bit powerfull.
Errm... agility as solution for everything? What about 21 str? Would hurt much more. I cannot believe, that people with 1,20 m 2h sword cannot handle a 64cm stick.
I wonder a little bit about the agility hype... often a player circles around me and always do a "left2right" swing... no damage, no hp. And dead with one hit.
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Because M&B isn't real life, Kherr. Range does not work the same way. The one with a shorter weapon just needs to block once to close in, then range doesn't matter. After that, shorter range is an advantage.
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I wonder a little bit about the agility hype... often a player circles around me and always do a "left2right" swing... no damage, no hp. And dead with one hit.
Pierce weapons can go through armour pretty well, even with low strength. That, plus the x3 modifier for pierce weapons hitting the head, make a 3rd generation steel pick a 1 hit KO on almost anyone with its 102 speed and difficult-to-see animations.
I vote minor damage reduction and decrease length by four. The weird shape of the pick's head already gives it an edge (or point, lawl) when striking around player defenses.
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Pierce weapons can go through armour pretty well, even with low strength. That, plus the x3 modifier for pierce weapons hitting the head, make a 3rd generation steel pick a 1 hit KO on almost anyone with its 102 speed and difficult-to-see animations.
I vote minor damage reduction and decrease length by four. The weird shape of the pick's head already gives it an edge (or point, lawl) when striking around player defenses.
Lol by four huh? whered you get this number from? your ass? you make that thing any shorter/less damaging and every one will just go back to using the military pick. So basically what your arguing for is to take it out completely because that's what you'll end up doing.
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Moar like decrease damage by 2-3 and speed by 1-2.
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Start a new thread please. This one is about Crushthrough, how much it sucks, and how soon it can be removed from cRPG.
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Moar like decrease damage by 2-3 and speed by 1-2.
Lol read again or here maybe you are arguing against something you don't know the specs of
Military Pick 4680
weight 2.25
requirement 10
spd rtng 97
weapon length 70
swing damage 31, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce
lets make your changes
Steel Pick 6889
weight 2.25
requirement 12
spd rtng 98
weapon length 64
swing damage 30, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce
I would take the military pick, or would you have that nerfed as well?
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Yep.
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Well case closed its not the steel pick thats broken its your head.
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YOU OFFEND MY HONOR? I TAKE THIS AS A CHALLENGE TO DUEL
in the dawn
choose the weapons good sir
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choose the weapon good sir
would be funny, if he would choose a pick...
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would be funny, if he chooses a pick...
Ah, yes, that would be quite frolicsome.
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Crush-through makes total sense.
1H crush-through does not.
When someone swings a metal loaf on a stick at you with all their weight behind it, it definitely will smash your shield into your face. And, it might knock you down, too.
I hate being killed through a block, but it makes sense. It'd snap the blocker's weapon in half, too, most likely.
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Crush-through makes total sense.
1H crush-through does not.
When someone swings a metal loaf on a stick at you with all their weight behind it, it definitely will smash your shield into your face. And, it might knock you down, too.
I hate being killed through a block, but it makes sense. It'd snap the blocker's weapon in half, too, most likely.
Not in the current implementation. It deal too much damage, if it would deal less damage, and become less abusable (impossible to stunlock), then it would be ok.
You dont have to take all the force, you can DEFLECT blows with your shield, you know ?
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i liked crushthrough for 1h morningstars, it gave 1h horsemen something that lancers didn't have. from this point of view there is no reason why to go 1h horsman instead of lancer now. the 1h crushthrough for morningstar worked only at high speeds and couldn't be used on foot, from my point of view it worked quite ok. of course any crushthrough 1h weapon that would work on foot would be kinda ridiculous.
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If you want Crush Through removed then I suggest a hit from a blunt weapon break the persons arm (possible with WSE) so they can't lift their shield anymore.
Think it a fair trade you dirty face huggers?
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Ok, if your 2h/pole gets a 30% break chance everytime it is blocked...
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Steel pick discussion continued here: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1814.0.html
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PS - Crushthrough sucks for all involved and should be removed.