cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Torp on February 01, 2011, 03:45:54 pm

Title: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Torp on February 01, 2011, 03:45:54 pm
arent there any 1h weapons with crushthrough?
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 01, 2011, 03:53:43 pm
No, that would be ridiculous :P
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Yaron on February 01, 2011, 03:56:56 pm
no, only with knockdown ...
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Arked on February 01, 2011, 03:57:28 pm
Nope, but u have some knockdown 1h weapons.

EDIT: i never listen to that damn warning about new reply :D
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Rextard on February 01, 2011, 04:05:58 pm
Nope, it'd be nice though.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Torp on February 01, 2011, 04:10:24 pm
i was looking for one on my spartan alt (yes, i know spartans didnt have big-ass crushthrough weapons, but i'd be fun)
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Engine on February 01, 2011, 08:09:57 pm
Crushthrough is the worst mechanic left in the game. BOOOOO CRUSHTHROUGH YOU STINK.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: eulenkaese on February 01, 2011, 09:39:04 pm
crushthrough should be removed :/
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Vygar on February 01, 2011, 09:45:31 pm
Agreed.  Crusthrough is inappropriate for this module.  I'd like to see it gone as well.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Delro on February 01, 2011, 09:58:30 pm
It'd be nice if there were some skill-based way to block crush through, besides a chamber. Aiming a shield up, for instance (thus exposing your legs and feet.)

I've found sidestepping works pretty well against big overhand weapons in all but tight confines. If that's the case and you're against an opponent wielding a crush through weapon in a narrow alley, you're in their prime territory I'm afraid. It's like facing a cav in the open, or an archer who is on a hill and you've got no shield. Find some way to get them out in the open, or die. 
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: gazda on February 01, 2011, 10:01:34 pm
well i'd leave crushthrough but only for 2h and 1h without shield polearms and shields should be able to block it

cant beat physics  :wink:
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 01, 2011, 10:14:10 pm
Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.

Gazda: If anything, only shields should not be able to block it. Crushthrough is the anti-shield, their only weakness.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Magikarp on February 01, 2011, 10:23:58 pm
Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.

Gazda: If anything, only shields should not be able to block it. Crushthrough is the anti-shield, their only weakness.
Besides range and lack of high damage of course.

Crushtrough makes it possible to kill those uber blockers if they fuck up, makes games go a lot faster.
However I think crush trough should somehow be reserved for high str characters.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on February 01, 2011, 10:27:30 pm
Crush through is not supposed to be here? next thing you'll say is bonus against shields is bad?  Then plate is bad, then stats arnt enough, you know how much wining the people have to handle, just answer a question and dont go talking about random stuff.

Also on the topic of the question: I think 1 handers dont have crush-through because they are 1 handed weapons, they dont hit as hard and as strong as 2 handers so they dont have certain bonuses or advantages, or even certain disadvantages and nerfs.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Magikarp on February 01, 2011, 10:29:28 pm
Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Diomedes on February 01, 2011, 10:32:11 pm
I really don't understand the venom in so many anti-crushthrough people.  The two most popular crushthrough weapons are the bar mace and great maul - two effective yet definitely opposable weapons.  Either build, taken to the extreme, lends itself to certain weaknesses, such as a full strength build being outmaneuvered or a tin can being lanced/xbow-ed.  One-on-one both both weapons can be beaten by a swift player who can land strong hits, and in the midst of combat by a creeping player that can hit faster than they can block or dodge.  Crushthrough is a considerably dangerous mechanic but one inextricably linked to class-based weaknesses.

Crushthrough itself isn't OP but 1h+crushthrough likely would be.


Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.

Also this.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 01, 2011, 10:32:43 pm
Besides range and lack of high damage of course.

Crushtrough makes it possible to kill those uber blockers if they fuck up, makes games go a lot faster.
However I think crush trough should somehow be reserved for high str characters.

1h lacks high damage? Lawl.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Delro on February 01, 2011, 10:42:36 pm
Delro: even a chamber won't save you from crushthrough. If it did, I'd be completely fine with the mechanic.

I did not know that, I thought they were chamber-able. Thanks for clearing that up!

I agree that it should go through shields. I don't know about going through shields AND knocking down, though, or doing as much damage as it does. I think maybe if the damage was reduced by 25% and the knockdown changed to a stagger, it'd be a little more bearable for people. Most casual players don't recognize the visual difference between a hammer and a sword until they're on the ground getting mashed wondering why their block didn't work.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: gazda on February 01, 2011, 10:54:47 pm
but no way a 2h can block 9kg hammer, blocking with 2h is simple lever system
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 01, 2011, 11:02:50 pm
But no way can a 9kg hammer block an attack from something as long, well balanced and light as a normal 2h sword.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: UrLukur on February 01, 2011, 11:49:10 pm
but no way a 2h can block 9kg hammer, blocking with 2h is simple lever system

sword can deflect it. Beside, there was no 9kg hammers used in actual war.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: bruce on February 01, 2011, 11:51:57 pm
The only weapons which really annoy me are the fast crushing weapons, like heirloomed barmaces / iron maces. Hammers are slow.


Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Delro on February 01, 2011, 11:53:25 pm
If the animation for this engine was a little tighter, and I didn't think controls were hard-coded (I think they are) it'd be awesome to add a side-step action by double-tapping "A" or "S" - that way you can "counter" crush through blows (and all overhand swings/thrusts for that matter) but you'd have to be quick on your feet.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on February 02, 2011, 06:03:04 am
Even if they had crushtrough, they would be too light to ever crush trough blocks.


I agree with your statement, as stated by me on the post above yours.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Wookimonsta on February 02, 2011, 12:37:26 pm
seems to me 1h weapons are powerful enough as is, iirc the steel pick can do up to 39 pierce damage when heirloomed.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 12:43:14 pm
seems to me 1h weapons are powerful enough as is, iirc the steel pick can do up to 39 pierce damage when heirloomed.

One could even argue that the steel pick does way too much damage...
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Joelturuz on February 02, 2011, 01:38:52 pm
Once when I was a peasant, my block was crushed by a morningstar+shield tincan. It also killed me.
So get 10 PS and grab a morningstar :)
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Patricia on February 02, 2011, 04:19:32 pm
Once when I was a peasant, my block was crushed by a morningstar+shield tincan. It also killed me.
So get 10 PS and grab a morningstar :)

Too bad they removed morning star's crush through and replaced it with bonus to shield
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Noble Crassius on February 02, 2011, 04:28:52 pm
If the animation for this engine was a little tighter, and I didn't think controls were hard-coded (I think they are) it'd be awesome to add a side-step action by double-tapping "A" or "S" - that way you can "counter" crush through blows (and all overhand swings/thrusts for that matter) but you'd have to be quick on your feet.
Side steppign is near useless agaisnt players that know how to counter it. Youknow the people who overhead then just roll left/right and youstill get smashed anyhow. So many times Ive gotten hit by this "loloverhead" while their weapons animation was on the ground but apprantly not at an end.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Spawny on February 02, 2011, 04:43:22 pm
One could even argue that the steel pick does way too much damage...

It's too long too. 64 cm. Waaaay too long.

The regular steel pick is fine imo, but the 3rd gen heirloomed deals 39 pierce damage, which is a bit excessive. With a 12 strength requirement, you can build a 12/24 agility build and still hurt people A LOT. The 24 agility gives access to 8 athletics and 8 WM, making a 102 speed - 39 pierce damage weapon a bit powerfull.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Kherr on February 02, 2011, 06:15:44 pm
It's too long too. 64 cm. Waaaay too long.

The regular steel pick is fine imo, but the 3rd gen heirloomed deals 39 pierce damage, which is a bit excessive. With a 12 strength requirement, you can build a 12/24 agility build and still hurt people A LOT. The 24 agility gives access to 8 athletics and 8 WM, making a 102 speed - 39 pierce damage weapon a bit powerfull.
Errm... agility as solution for everything? What about 21 str? Would hurt much more. I cannot believe, that people with 1,20 m 2h sword cannot handle a 64cm stick.
I wonder a little bit about the agility hype... often a player circles around me and always do a "left2right" swing... no damage, no hp. And dead with one hit.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 06:52:44 pm
Because M&B isn't real life, Kherr. Range does not work the same way. The one with a shorter weapon just needs to block once to close in, then range doesn't matter. After that, shorter range is an advantage.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Diomedes on February 02, 2011, 07:01:40 pm
I wonder a little bit about the agility hype... often a player circles around me and always do a "left2right" swing... no damage, no hp. And dead with one hit.

Pierce weapons can go through armour pretty well, even with low strength.  That, plus the x3 modifier for pierce weapons hitting the head, make a 3rd generation steel pick a 1 hit KO on almost anyone with its 102 speed and difficult-to-see animations.

I vote minor damage reduction and decrease length by four.  The weird shape of the pick's head already gives it an edge (or point, lawl) when striking around player defenses.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Noble Crassius on February 02, 2011, 07:18:09 pm
Pierce weapons can go through armour pretty well, even with low strength.  That, plus the x3 modifier for pierce weapons hitting the head, make a 3rd generation steel pick a 1 hit KO on almost anyone with its 102 speed and difficult-to-see animations.

I vote minor damage reduction and decrease length by four.  The weird shape of the pick's head already gives it an edge (or point, lawl) when striking around player defenses.

Lol by four huh? whered you get this number from? your ass? you make that thing any shorter/less damaging and every one will just go back to using the military pick. So basically what your arguing for is to take it out completely because that's what you'll end up doing.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 07:21:14 pm
Moar like decrease damage by 2-3 and speed by 1-2.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Engine on February 02, 2011, 07:22:39 pm
Start a new thread please. This one is about Crushthrough, how much it sucks, and how soon it can be removed from cRPG.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Noble Crassius on February 02, 2011, 07:25:42 pm
Moar like decrease damage by 2-3 and speed by 1-2.

Lol read again or here maybe you are arguing against something you don't know the specs of

Military Pick   4680   
weight 2.25
requirement 10
spd rtng 97
weapon length 70
swing damage 31, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce

 lets make your changes
Steel Pick   6889   
weight 2.25
requirement 12
spd rtng 98
weapon length 64
swing damage 30, pierce
thrust damage 0 pierce

I would take the military pick, or would you have that nerfed as well?
   
   
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 07:27:50 pm
Yep.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Noble Crassius on February 02, 2011, 07:29:30 pm
Well case closed its not the steel pick thats broken its your head.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 07:40:16 pm
YOU OFFEND MY HONOR? I TAKE THIS AS A CHALLENGE TO DUEL

in the dawn

choose the weapons good sir
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Kherr on February 02, 2011, 07:46:09 pm
choose the weapon good sir
would be funny, if he would choose a pick...
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Xant on February 02, 2011, 07:47:34 pm
would be funny, if he chooses a pick...

Ah, yes, that would be quite frolicsome.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Bull on February 02, 2011, 09:39:43 pm
Crush-through makes total sense.

1H crush-through does not.

When someone swings a metal loaf on a stick at you with all their weight behind it, it definitely will smash your shield into your face. And, it might knock you down, too.

I hate being killed through a block, but it makes sense. It'd snap the blocker's weapon in half, too, most likely.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 09:42:32 pm
Crush-through makes total sense.

1H crush-through does not.

When someone swings a metal loaf on a stick at you with all their weight behind it, it definitely will smash your shield into your face. And, it might knock you down, too.

I hate being killed through a block, but it makes sense. It'd snap the blocker's weapon in half, too, most likely.

Not in the current implementation. It deal too much damage, if it would deal less damage, and become less abusable (impossible to stunlock), then it would be ok.

You dont have to take all the force, you can DEFLECT blows with your shield, you know ?
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Beauchamp on February 03, 2011, 12:38:12 am
i liked crushthrough for 1h morningstars, it gave 1h horsemen something that lancers didn't have. from this point of view there is no reason why to go 1h horsman instead of lancer now. the 1h crushthrough for morningstar worked only at high speeds and couldn't be used on foot, from my point of view it worked quite ok. of course any crushthrough 1h weapon that would work on foot would be kinda ridiculous.
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Tungsten on February 03, 2011, 01:05:16 am
If you want Crush Through removed then I suggest a hit from a blunt weapon break the persons arm (possible with WSE) so they can't lift their shield anymore.

Think it a fair trade you dirty face huggers?
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: zagibu on February 03, 2011, 02:31:18 am
Ok, if your 2h/pole gets a 30% break chance everytime it is blocked...
Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Diomedes on February 03, 2011, 02:41:58 am
Steel pick discussion continued here: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,1814.0.html

Title: Re: 1H crushthrough
Post by: Engine on February 03, 2011, 04:22:50 pm
PS - Crushthrough sucks for all involved and should be removed.