cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Aesir on February 01, 2011, 11:38:25 am

Title: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Aesir on February 01, 2011, 11:38:25 am
As u can see, no more Bec de Corbin was used in cRPG because it's become a crappy weapon, have a look on that stats vs Long Hafted Spiked Mace :

Long Hafted Spiked Mace      4745   
weight 3
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 138
swing damage 34 blunt
thrust damage 20 blunt
Knockdown

VS

Bec de Corbin   7312   
weight 2.8
requirement 14
spd rtng 93
weapon length 120
swing damage 36, pierce
thrust damage 26 pierce

34 blunt < 36 pierce  but just few damage more
cf : http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm (http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm)

really imbalanced I think.

That's why, i would like to have some stats like that :

Bec de Corbin   7312   
weight 2.8
requirement 14
spd rtng 94
weapon length 120
swing damage 36, pierce
thrust damage 28 pierce

u can use it on horseback, true, but i never see people using a bec de corbin instead of a lance ...
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Sultan_Khalifa on February 01, 2011, 11:47:40 am
eh its a great weopen I still use it :)
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Christo on February 01, 2011, 11:48:27 am
I find 95 a bit much.. 94 would be a better speed decision imo.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Aesir on February 01, 2011, 11:50:47 am
Maybe 94 is better in fact, while we can heirloom it for 96speed in gen3

in the same way we can up the price of the long hafted spiked mace at 5500, cause it is a great weapon at so cheap price

we need chadz ^^
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Thucydides on February 01, 2011, 01:40:40 pm
yeah buff goretooth some more  :(
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: NuberT on February 01, 2011, 02:15:38 pm
nerf long hafted spiked mace and long hafted blade instead, they are superior to all other polearms..
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Neostralie on February 01, 2011, 06:08:56 pm
I don't know if what I made is usefull but I use the calculator to make a little comparison of the two weapons :

The character has those values:
Strenght 18 (so he can use evry close combat weapons and armors of cRPG)
Power Strike 6
WPF : 100

Now we must compare the same weapon against the same Armor of 40 (Mail with Surcoat) witch is a medium armor.
I also compare the weapon against the best armor with a price nealy equal to the weapon.
Quote from: Template of the data :
Name
Swign Damage : min / Avg / max
Thrust Damage : min / Avg / max

And this is what I get :

Against Armor 40 :
Bec de Corbin
Swing Damage : 25 / 32.5 / 40
Thrust Damage : 15 / 22 / 29

Long Hafted Spiked Mace
Swing Damage : 24 / 30 / 37
Thrust Damage : 9 / 14.5 / 20

Bec de Corbin   (7312) Vs   Studded Leather over Mail (7383g)
Swing Damage : 23 / 30.5 / 38
Thrust Damage : 13 / 20.5 / 28

Long Hafted Spiked Mace (4745g) Vs Druzhina Mail Shirt (4674g)
Swign Damage : 23 / 31 / 38
Thrust Damage : 8 / 13.5 / 19

The Bec de Corbin's price is 1.5x the Long Hafted Spiked Mace price. And agains armor of the same price they do the same amount of damage. This is fair.
But the LHSM Knockdown and the Bec de Corbin don't.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: FF_Patrick_Henry on February 01, 2011, 06:12:45 pm
I feel you, it seems like high-end polearms are poorly scaled.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Aesir on February 01, 2011, 07:12:03 pm
Quote from: Neostralie on February 01, 2011, 06:08:56 pm

The Bec de Corbin's price is 1.5x the Long Hafted Spiked Mace price. And agains armor of the same price they do the same amount of damage. This is fair.
But the LHSM Knockdown and the Bec de Corbin don't.

all stats of the BdC is unbalanced, don't look only on damage done. U can't said that the maul is imba because he do 36blunt, knockdown and crushtrhough ... lenght and speed was important stats to.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: AdNecrias on February 01, 2011, 07:19:35 pm
You don't see people using the bec on horse the same way you don't see people using glaives or even warspears. You need the extra range ANY lance provides. 120 can't compete with 170, and its something mandatory on horseback.

EDIT: The Glaive is just too... wierd, i got one.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Neostralie on February 01, 2011, 09:16:06 pm
Quote from: Aesir on February 01, 2011, 07:12:03 pm
all stats of the BdC is unbalanced, don't look only on damage done. U can't said that the maul is imba because he do 36blunt, knockdown and crushtrhough ... lenght and speed was important stats to.

You're right.

LHSM : 138 of reach and 94 speed
Bec : 120 of reach and 93 of speed

Thank you remebering me that the LHSM is realy better than the Bec de Corbin.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Meow on February 01, 2011, 09:25:05 pm
Quote from: NuberT on February 01, 2011, 02:15:38 pm
nerf long hafted spiked mace and long hafted blade instead, they are superior to all other polearms..
add the hafted blade and the other pole mace...
the scaling is just way off on most polearms :(
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Punisher on February 01, 2011, 09:46:29 pm
Quote from: NuberT on February 01, 2011, 02:15:38 pm
nerf long hafted spiked mace and long hafted blade instead, they are superior to all other polearms..

+1, Bec is fine the way it is, the OP polearms are the problem. Long hafted spiked mace is amazingly effective even with 1 polearm WPF and long hafted blade is the spammer's weapon of choice, on an agility build it can outspam a katana (i know the stats don't look like this but it's something about the animation I think, just watch a long hafted blade spammer in-game and you will see).
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: DrKronic on February 01, 2011, 10:00:58 pm
The same can be said for many 2hand weapons post nerfs where stuff like the extremely low tier two handed war axe looks favorable compared to the katana for example (five higher damage bonus vs shields, still fast enough to compete with other fast weapons)

I luv that long hafted spiked mace or whatever it really kills:so long and fast, definitely a good weapon and knockdown lols

I have to say the regular poleaxe is actually my favorite high end polearm

Won't break the bank, killer thrust damage good swing w bonus vs shields and fast enough to trade licks with a spammer

I don't bother with elegant or german both are slightly faster but weaker pierces and shorter for quite a big cost increase
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Son Of Odin on February 02, 2011, 01:49:56 am
Bec De Corbin is one of my fav weapons but I think it is slightly too slow. It is quite short polearm so I would like to see it swing a little faster... I did not use it pre patch, but I think it got heavily nerfed to this new patch? I do not say that it should become "a spammers choice of weapon" but a tiny little increase to speed and maybe to swing damage would be a wise thing to do with this cool piece of polearm. I don't like to be outspammed with this weapon...
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Aesir on February 02, 2011, 02:43:12 am
Quote from: AdNecrias on February 01, 2011, 07:19:35 pm
You don't see people using the bec on horse the same way you don't see people using glaives or even warspears. You need the extra range ANY lance provides. 120 can't compete with 170, and its something mandatory on horseback.

EDIT: The Glaive is just too... weird, i got one.

u right, but i just said use it at horse back doesn't balance this polearm anymore.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Matey on February 02, 2011, 10:09:05 am
havent read the replies... maybe this has been covered...

Bec is an insanely good wep as it is. its way faster than its speed rating would indicate. if you ever need proof just look at what goretooth can do with one of them while in full black armour.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 11:09:29 am
The bec is the morningstar of polearms imo it doesn't need any buffs since it's longer, can thrust and has 1 more speed of morningstar but not unbalanced.

Maybe lower it's price to 5.5k?
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Tungsten on February 02, 2011, 11:20:40 am
Bec is fine. I see it less than I see Long Hafted SwingthrublockBlade or Poleaxes but it's still deadly as hell.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Brutal on February 02, 2011, 11:43:36 am
Quote from: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 11:09:29 am
The bec is the morningstar of polearms imo it doesn't need any buffs since it's longer, can thrust and has 1 more speed of morningstar but not unbalanced.

Maybe lower it's price to 5.5k?
Let's not compare shoes and potatoes :wink: the animation are not the same thus reach and speed also.
The issue here is that it is a no brainer to take LHSP rather than bec de corbin in the polearm category.

Howerver with three heirloom each the two weapon seems balanced
longer reach + knockdown against better speed and damage

bec de corbin
weight 2.8
requirement 14
spd rtng 93
weapon length 120
swing damage 36, pierce
thrust damage 26 pierce
Gen1= 94spd 38pierce 29pierce
Gen2= 94spd 40pierce 29pierce
Gen3= 95spd 42pierce 30pierce

LHSM

weight 3
requirement 13
spd rtng 94
weapon length 138
swing damage 34, blunt
thrust damage 20 blunt
Knockdown
Gen1= 94spd 37blunt 22blunt
Gen2= 94spd 39blunt 23blunt
Gen3= 94spd 40blunt 24blunt
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 12:00:39 pm
The bec can 1 shot in the face x3 damage of pierce.

Yes the maces need a nerf but you shouldn't compare it with the bec.

Also 2h most hated animation is the thrust which morningstar lacks bec has 120 - 20 or 22 polearm grip = 100-98 range while morningstar has 82 range so 18-16 length difference, no 2h animation apart of thrust will ever make it longer than bec.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Brutal on February 02, 2011, 12:41:24 pm
Blunt does only X2 to the head ?

Quote
Yes the maces need a nerf
Than we agree

Quote
no 2h animation apart of thrust will ever make it longer than bec.

Only minus 22 ? seems to be more weapon lenght* 2/5 for left swing for bec de corbin

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Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 10:05:21 pm
Quote from: Brutal on February 02, 2011, 12:41:24 pm
Blunt does only X2 to the head ?
Than we agree

Only minus 22 ? seems to be more weapon lenght* 2/5 for left swing for bec de corbin
(click to show/hide)

There is actual data on taleworld forums. Bec is fine, it's mace that is too good currently.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 10:09:06 pm
They weren't so good before last patches because their damage was buffed a lot since no one used them but there should be some common sense when you have a 95 speed weapon with 30+ blunt, knockdown and good length = a no no.
Title: Re: balance the "bec de corbin"
Post by: UrLukur on February 02, 2011, 10:21:55 pm
Quote from: Vexus on February 02, 2011, 10:09:06 pm
They weren't so good before last patches because their damage was buffed a lot since no one used them but there should be some common sense when you have a 95 speed weapon with 30+ blunt, knockdown and good length = a no no.

Sure, speed and damage is somehow problematic, length is fine. Major problem is soak and reduction formulas in the mod.