cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: awesomeasaurus on September 30, 2011, 08:30:59 pm
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I have been easily pushed past recently. I am upset that another shielder and I can not effectively block stairways and doorways. Is this in my head? Is this intentional? Is it rational? Discuss.
Edit: COLLISION DETECTION.
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mauls get shit done bro
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On most maps you can easily jump shield walls or kick and slash for easy defeats
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The term hes looking for 'collision detection'. Since the changes to hit boxes, enemies have been able to push up against and then slip right thru a shielder with shield up
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The term hes looking for 'collision detection'. Since the changes to hit boxes, enemies have been able to push up against and then slip right thru a shielder with shield up
You mean going through people like olde scottish ghosts ? 2h seem particularly good at this.
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The term hes looking for 'collision detection'. Since the changes to hit boxes, enemies have been able to push up against and then slip right thru a shielder with shield up
Now that's it just not on!
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The term hes looking for 'collision detection'. Since the changes to hit boxes, enemies have been able to push up against and then slip right thru a shielder with shield up
Yes, Digglez is correct. I am not concerned that I can be kick slashed or mauled. That is fair. What is unfair to me is that I am noticing people ghosting through me or clpping through parts of my shield which they have not before.
I will add a poll to see if anyone gives a shit.
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Yes, Digglez is correct. I am not concerned that I can be kick slashed or mauled. That is fair. What is unfair to me is that I am noticing people ghosting through me or clpping through parts of my shield which they have not before.
I will add a poll to see if anyone gives a shit.
I dunno, I'm not entirely convinced that this is happening. I DO think that the game is overall more laggy now, which would account for this. So, I think it's due to lag instead of hitboxes.
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I assumed this had to do with the reduction in size of shield hitboxes, which I think was overdone.
Used to be shields were a "forcefield" and not only could you not shoot through them, you couldn't walk through them. Now I find that I can use a Heavy Round Shield with 4 shield skill and I'm pretty sure the actual hitbox this generates is only about 80% of the physical size of the shield. Not only do people seem to clip around it easier but I've been hit by projects right through what should have been covered by the edge of my shield.
Basically I think the shield hitbox was over-nerfed and shields no longer even cover the radius dictated by their physical size.
To put it in proper perspective, imagine your juicehead two-hander swiped at someone, and the last foot of your sword clearly intersected their head, but it didn't count because the hitbox of your sword was shorter than the model. That's basically what has happened to shields.
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Yes, Digglez is correct. I am not concerned that I can be kick slashed or mauled. That is fair. What is unfair to me is that I am noticing people ghosting through me or clpping through parts of my shield which they have not before.
I will add a poll to see if anyone gives a shit.
na crushthru is almost 100 percent on shields but long knives can block it fine
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IMHO guys stop wasting your time with shielder classes, and go either archer or 2hander. Then you will at least stand a chance. Shielder is the most hated class among the cRPG dev team, it can be easily judged by the amount of nerfs shielders sustained (the largest). From what Armagan originally put into shields in M&B, the crpg lolbalance team managed to nerf almost everything. So now shielders simply cannot compete with 2 handers (I am of course talking about professionals on both sides).
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as heavy cav i encourage enemy teams to shield wall
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well i have noticed that when an enemy is SO close to you when he attacks he knocks your block out of the way but it was not just shielders it was everything ive noticed this both in native and crpg
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There is a pretty strong response in favor of my claim. Anyone else have insight on the different ways shields are acting?
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as heavy cav i encourage enemy teams to shield wall
As a spearman i encourage enemy cav to attack my teams shield wall.
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IMHO guys stop wasting your time with shielder classes, and go either archer or 2hander. Then you will at least stand a chance. Shielder is the most hated class among the cRPG dev team, it can be easily judged by the amount of nerfs shielders sustained (the largest). From what Armagan originally put into shields in M&B, the crpg lolbalance team managed to nerf almost everything. So now shielders simply cannot compete with 2 handers (I am of course talking about professionals on both sides).
thats another reason i stick with it. i know i piss people off when they cant kill me or i kill them. all i play is siege and laugh my balls off when they think its a duel server and complain about shields. lets be honest between the hit boxes and crushthru and the silly kick, shielders are easy
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I dunno, I'm not entirely convinced that this is happening. I DO think that the game is overall more laggy now, which would account for this. So, I think it's due to lag instead of hitboxes.
ya but why after the patch am i swinging totally thru peoples heads with an overhead or getting hit by 2h or polearms a mile away? still lag? or terrible hit boxes? maybe they go hand and hand
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IMHO guys stop wasting your time with shielder classes, and go either archer or 2hander. Then you will at least stand a chance. Shielder is the most hated class among the cRPG dev team, it can be easily judged by the amount of nerfs shielders sustained (the largest). From what Armagan originally put into shields in M&B, the crpg lolbalance team managed to nerf almost everything. So now shielders simply cannot compete with 2 handers (I am of course talking about professionals on both sides).
well i still say elite shielders never complain about it and they seems to do really good. besides that, 1h/shield is the easiest build to play and survive... but also the easiest build to play BAD. if you're a 2h/polearm you need some more practice than a shielder or you'll just instantly boom while as a shielder, if the things go back you just turtle. maul break their usual gameplay so they rage. but again, good shielders instead adapt and deal with maulers (and kill em).
usually, if a shielder see a maul in most cases should run away unless is a experienced player and knows how to deal with and knows how that mauler will play. as a 2handed would do when facing an archer/xbow/thrower. a mauler can easly take down an average shielder while an archer can easly take down a twohander.
a shielder can't hope to take down 10 2handed guys but also to be really effective versus ranged, while skipping the manual block training part of the game.
i see veteran shielders focusing and putting effort in what they play and do fine. guys, the shielder need to use the brain more than fighting skills. you need to figure it out.
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I've noticed that I'm able to simply slip past shielders now when they are trying to block areas, no idea why that is, but it's something that needs to be worked on.
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A dude with a maul and a dude with a pike will blitz ball that wall.
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Yep, two guys with Huscarl shields should be able to block a doorway until killed. I've noticed that it is too easy to slip past.
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I'm not sure if this is all related to a decrease in the shield's effective size but yesterday I had the pleasure of an arrow going through my upraised shield and into my face. While I can see the balance value of making this possible, I am still distressed it affects the 'walling' ability of shields and reduces it greatly.
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I love how Varyag whines about 1h in every thread where shields are mentioned. I think he has a severe case of l2p.
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I love how Varyag whines about 1h in every thread where shields are mentioned. I think he has a severe case of l2p.
i have nothing against him but yes surely needs to put some effort in it.
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i fucking hate great maul, its so random.
Random instawin effects dont belong in multiplayer games
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its not random
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i fucking hate great maul, its so random.
Random instawin effects dont belong in multiplayer games
there are no random factors about crushthru. it's an equation involving raw damage, weight of the weapon, weight of the shield/weapon that is being crushed. if someone don't crushthru all the times, is because the target crushthru resistance match the mauler crushthru ability. that's why when i had low PS builds (6-7) with mallet/ old morningstar / old barmace, i often needed good speedbonus + hold attack to pass an hard block (steel shield to make an example). and +3 greatmaul with 9PS crushthru all the time so no randomness you speak of.
someone posted the crushthru and knockdown equations somewhere. the only half random effect i know is knockdown. i say half because one variable modifying the probability of knockdown is again base damage (but is still capped at 30% probability if i'm not wrong)
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i fucking hate great maul, its so random.
Random instawin effects dont belong in multiplayer games
Not random at all. All you have to do is attack when the one using a great maul goes for an overhead.
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Crushthrough knockdown is random
Its hard enough as a shielder to face a crushthrough player, due to range and speed. With the added "bonus" of knockdown it becomes really frustrating.
I really dont think those weapons should have both effects at once
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Don't get hit and you're fine. What do you mean, due to range and speed? 1h has the advantage in speed.
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Back on topic:
It really is annoying when you and a shieldmate stand shoulder to shoulder with shields up and people can still run between you. The physical block radius of EVERYONE should be increased, not just for shielders. Keep it like it is for allies, though, so you still can stand close together, but increase it for enemies so that they can't ghost rush through you.
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movement speed, shields are heavy
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Everytime when I see mauler I sheath my shield (in 1vs 1 situations), if he has support then it's not that easy, but still if you're fast enough you can controll the fight with your footwork (most important is to use your weapon range). If you won't be carefull enough you're doomed. From my own experience the only "issue" that comes to my mind is a fact that you need to strike mauler even 4-5 times since most of them has STR oriented builds and/or heavy armor, while you cann't make a single mistake.
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My fight-selection rules as a shielder:
Maul - run away
Axe - kill them fast or run away
Kill everything else
As for the original topic I think that, since the shield hitboxes were shrunk, and thus shields were nerfed a bit vs ranged opponents, they ought to have a little more power in close combat. I like the OP's suggestion that this power needn't be for direct killing, or anything blasé like that, but in functionally supporting. A greater capacity for actually stopping enemies from getting by one's shield would help tactically and provide a cool new facet to shielder gameplay.
/2cents
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movement speed, shields are heavy
You still are a lot faster then a mauler. As said before, maulers are str oriented builds in heavy armors (most of times) with one of the slowest weapon (and shortest beside longmaul) and it's unbalanced!
The crushtrough factor is balanced by the fact that the maul user really is really slow (both for swinging and footwork) and he can't feint either!
You got there an easy spammable target. :mrgreen: Most onehand weapons are longuer so keep him at distance, dance around him, feint and spam! By the way, it's easier to do with ur shield on ur back cuz u walk faster and u swing faster. This is a tip coming from an ex-lol-greatmauler so I know exactly what I'm talking about. :wink:
If you cry about how they are OP in tight corridors in siege, well, that's the only place they are "OP". Go play battle, I'm sure you won't find any mauler on battle, he'll get raped by cav and archery before he can reach a shield wall.
Back on topic, I have not played much siege lately so I can't know for sure what is happening with shields when you try to block a doorway.
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Yeah i know that im fucked when it comes to maulers, i still dont like it. Its my cryptonite i guess.....
I play strenght heavy
I play only siege
I use a heavy shield (10 weight)
I wear medium armor
I meet maulers solo 1/5 at best, rest of the times they got friends
So its spam like a madman and hope their friends are blind deaf and crippled.
As for the OP's post i havent noticed anything with shield hitboxes, might be because i dont play in that way, or its a subtle change
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Yeah i know that im fucked when it comes to maulers, i still dont like it. Its my cryptonite i guess.....
I play strenght heavy
I play only siege
I use a heavy shield (10 weight)
I wear medium armor
I meet maulers solo 1/5 at best, rest of the times they got friends
So its spam like a madman and hope their friends are blind deaf and crippled.
As for the OP's post i havent noticed anything with shield hitboxes, might be because i dont play in that way, or its a subtle change
heh any STR melee build is an easy prey for a mauler. besides the speed, unbalanced factor, weapon length factor, the footwork comes first. that's why 21/21 maulers with no more than 15 total armor weight are so nasty. i'm playing with 27/12 4 ATH at the moment.. and i can't do the damn slaughter i did with the 21/21 lolmauler build.
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THIS THREAD IS ABOUT COLLISION DETECTION, STAY ON THE TOPIC
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ya but why after the patch am i swinging totally thru peoples heads with an overhead or getting hit by 2h or polearms a mile away? still lag? or terrible hit boxes? maybe they go hand and hand
Precisely. Your ad hoc examples add to that likelyhood of a lag culprit.
P.S. - Shields still scoop up my arrows no problem. If there was a problem, I would be shooting off shielder feet left and right, and it is getting caught by the shield. I don't think it is the hitbox for the shields.
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heh any STR melee build is an easy prey for a mauler. besides the speed, unbalanced factor, weapon length factor, the footwork comes first. that's why 21/21 maulers with no more than 15 total armor weight are so nasty. i'm playing with 27/12 4 ATH at the moment.. and i can't do the damn slaughter i did with the 21/21 lolmauler build.
well maulers are eazy to beat imo unless they have a chamber or you glance off theyr armor while outspamming them.
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i have nothing against him but yes surely needs to put some effort in it.
Varyag was wtf pwning peeps as 1H/shielder long before either of you noobs showed up. Haven't seen him play with that build in quite some time though. In any case, I don't agree with him that 1H/shield is as uncompetitive as he makes it out.
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Hmm, this new hitbox-bug would explain why I could have sworn that I got a bolt right through my Heavy Round Shield few days ago... I first feared that all the archers and xBows have finally learned to aim for feet or sumthing, but luckily only seems like my imagination :P .
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I got shot trough my Heavy Board Shield (the one requiring 4 shield skill)! I had 5 shield skill and my shield was the higher it could be! And Druzhina Batir (or something) still just fkin shot me trough it in the face. WTF! The hitboxes are so screwed!
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Varyag was wtf pwning peeps as 1H/shielder long before either of you noobs showed up. Haven't seen him play with that build in quite some time though. In any case, I don't agree with him that 1H/shield is as uncompetitive as he makes it out.
so if varyag was pwning long before august 2010... when did the first beta of cRPG came out? :?