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cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Camaris on September 26, 2011, 08:14:18 am

Title: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Camaris on September 26, 2011, 08:14:18 am
Hi there im actually playing 1h-without shield and have tried some 1h-weapons so far.
Especially one weapon caused some headache to me. Its the Long Espada Eslanova.
While being one very beautiful weapon it for sure isnt the toptier 1h weapon and worth 10k of money.

At first i thought this weapon had to be a monster cause of its 31 Piercedamage on stab and its true
that if you hit a stab it does really a shitload of damage.
But while fighting with it i found some problems:
- 1h stab is a very hard to do attack. You never do know if the stab will kill or glance.
Like i said i dont play with shield and it was fucking hard to get those stabs in. A huge
amount of them glanced or just didnt hit while they were in target. I never had this problems
with polestabs or 2h-weapons => 1h stab sucks cause of its animation and connection => 31 Pierce is not worth that much with the worst attack of the 1h
- On Masterwork you get 30 cut on your swings. That is ok if you have a mid-tier stabsword but its not fine at the top-tier 1h-sword.
For sure it shouldnt be better then Knightly Arming or even NCS but it should be buffed a little cause 30cut at masterwork is a joke for this lovely high priced weapon.

=> Because of the shitty stab of 1hs in general and the low cut damage for the top-tier 1h-Sword i suggest to raise cut damage of Long Espada Eslanova from
27 cut to 29 cut.

PS: Yes i do know its a stabsword and thats why its cut damage still will be 2 points under KAS and 3 under NCS.
Alternative would be that you fix that total ridiculous stab-animation on 1h-Weapons.
-> that would also solve the problem that there is no need to take another weapon then one of both scimis if you shit on your style.

If you dont agree with me just buy that weapon and use it for 2-3h. Try to stab and look how often it doesnt hit or glances while it should hit.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Camaris on September 26, 2011, 10:24:59 am
Would be nice if you could tell me why you voted no?
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Elmokki on September 26, 2011, 10:55:46 am
In all honesty I'm not a 1h veteran and I use normal espada instead of long espada and I usually use it with a shield. 1h stabs have a slightly dodgy animation, but if you do your footwork/turning right you really don't glance much.

That said I would be happy for a slight increase in cut damage of my espada and at the same time why not long espada. Normal espada has 25c base - lower than about everything except really low tier weapons. I would guess same would be fine for long espada, though long espada is currently a slower but longer side sword in terms of stats so I don't know if it would upset balance more.

Bottomline though espadas are stabbing weapons, and the stab is strong when you can pull it off properly. There are issues with doing that: with good footwork sideswings are often easier to land at least for me and especially against other shielders. Especially if I can't step back and use the long range of the stab animation to my benefit.

I wouldn't buff either espada stats, but the 1h stab animation could use a slight boost.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Siiem on September 26, 2011, 12:09:42 pm
Let's turn the tables, why go NCS KAS or Scimi if the Long espada get cut increase and epic stab damage. Long Espada has the same speed as the Elite scimi and the longest 1h sword afaik. I don't see the reason for this.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Camaris on September 26, 2011, 12:56:59 pm
Main Reason is that it´s stab is not that good and you need 75% swings. So those other swords would still be better in their main attack.
Actually if you compare them now there is no real reason to take Esplada cause you will do better with both other swords.
Why is it the most expensive then? I would prefer to work on the 1hstab in general though but i guess this wont happen.

And tbh Scimis are by far superior and in my opinion Elite Scimitar is the best 1h-Sword. It sucks cause it is arabian style. ;)
Its very fast, has ghost range, does good damage and is very hard to block. So in comparsion to Elite Scimi every other Top-Tier sword
is losing in my opinion... not only Long Espada Eslanova.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: v/onMega on September 26, 2011, 02:20:22 pm
You come up with 99% good and useful suggestions bro.....this time, I have to say, you are wrong.

1h swords are balanced, you get tools for every job. Their purpose is reflected by their stats quite well.

31 pierce on mw is unmatched by mostly anything.
30 cut still is enough to finish everybody who got stabbed once.

I am not even starting with the speedbonus + headhit. When ever this kicks in, the espada will maybe one hit.

In case u add more swingdmg, u ll create the next sidesword (prenerf)...and thats surely not necessary.

1h stab is tricky, yet so powerful.
Imo the animations cons are its biggest pros at the same time....

Espada is an experts weapon,
1h noshield is the hardest for melee....so what do u expect? :-)

Ps:
Play it for 10 or 15 more hours and u ll love it, even with its cons :-) :-)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on September 26, 2011, 03:46:14 pm
Quote from: v/onMega on September 26, 2011, 02:20:22 pm
1h stab is tricky, yet so powerful.
But still nothing compared to the 2h lolstab. When you do it wrong there is no "turning it in", you bounce and in most cases you get hit and probably die. It's still very powerful, but it takes a lot of skill to use.
28/28 would be great stats IMO and okay for the most expensive 1h weapon.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Wookimonsta on September 26, 2011, 03:53:29 pm
It seems to me 1h are in a pretty good place right now, they do plenty of damage and most players will always get head hits with them. In comparison to other classes they seem to do pretty well in combat, and lets not forget, 1h can use shields, which are a huge boon to any fighter.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Siiem on September 26, 2011, 04:15:33 pm
Quote from: Laufknoten on September 26, 2011, 03:46:14 pm
there is no "turning it in", you bounce and in most cases you get hit and probably die. It's still very powerful, but it takes a lot of skill to use.

O'rly?
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on September 26, 2011, 04:55:28 pm
Quote from: Siiem on September 26, 2011, 04:15:33 pm
O'rly?
yes sir.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Tindel on September 26, 2011, 08:21:20 pm
Im using long espada, and as much as i would like it buffed.....i find it very good already.
The stab is very powerfull, yes hard to use but if it wasnt they would nerf it.

I think the cost of the weapon should be reduced by 2-4k though, to be more in line with the other top tier weapons
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on September 26, 2011, 08:26:36 pm
Well I am expert on the subject, and that would indeed make the LEE way too good compared to other swords, the main advantage of the LEE is that its quick long and stabby as hell, the price to pay is higher upkeep and lower slashes.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 07:48:45 pm
I changed my mind, it sucks. Buff!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 09:37:44 pm
Quote from: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 07:48:45 pm
I changed my mind, it sucks. Buff!
It's probably not the sword that sucks...
But okay, 28/29 cut, so even Siiem can enjoy playing with it. :)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on September 28, 2011, 10:01:24 pm
The sword doesnt need a buff IMO, but if they do end up buffing it, I won't be the one to whine.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 10:47:35 pm
Quote from: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 09:37:44 pm
It's probably not the sword that sucks...
But okay, 28/29 cut, so even Siiem can enjoy playing with it. :)

Nah 28/28 sounds fine. But it's not needed.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on September 28, 2011, 11:07:31 pm
Quote from: Siiem on September 28, 2011, 10:47:35 pm
Nah 28/28 sounds fine. But it's not needed.
Sorry, I ment 28 OR 29 cut. 28 cut and 28 pierce would be appropriate for the best sword and most expensive 1h. Incredible pierce and lenght (+good speed for such a long weapon) for medium cut damage and high upkeep.     
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Diomedes on September 29, 2011, 04:49:42 am
The LEE is the best 1h sword currently.  It's not head and shoulders over every other sword, as ought to be the case, but it's easily the most powerful if you have the money and know how to use it.  With high powerstrike or careful maneuvering the stab always hits.  With the exceptional length it can score well-aimed headshots and easily dismount or kill charging cavalry.  The low swing damage is its only real underwhelming feature, at face value, but in practice this is almost irrelevant.  On left-right swings the sword easily scores clean headshots - effectively increasing its average slash damage way above the given stat.

I'd use it, except that:
- it's expensive
- it's not very pretty compared to other swords
- it's a little boring to use
- folks know how dangerous you are and run away
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on September 29, 2011, 04:59:49 am
Its pretty ):<
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on November 03, 2011, 08:40:17 pm
Sorry for reanimating this thread but there's something wrong with the LEE.

(click to show/hide)

Seriously, the top tier 1h sword is the cheapest item on the market, that's kinda weird IMO. Sure, those are probably noobs who don't know how to use it, but that still shows that something is wrong with the top 1h swords, when the price of a +1 elite scimitar for example is around ~350000...

Increasing the cut damage to 28 would make it slightly better and worth it's upkeep.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: John on November 03, 2011, 11:11:41 pm
Please don't buff the long espada.  I love mine, and don't want it to get nerfed. 
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: hippy_with_a_scimi on November 04, 2011, 05:41:53 pm
Quote from: John on November 03, 2011, 11:11:41 pm
Please don't buff the long espada.  I love mine, and don't want it to get nerfed.

you are too op with it dude , stop twisting that stab like a bawse!  :D


 i voted no obviously you havent seen thol using the espada , hes a wrecking machine  , i thought that LEE was a good weapon no more no less but in his hands its rape train
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on November 04, 2011, 07:03:42 pm
Yeah yeah LEE is op, nerf nerf nerf

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 05, 2011, 06:55:47 am
I vote no.  The LEE is fine.  What does need some re-balancing however is the side sword.  It was overnerfed to the point of pointlessness.
Almost as expensive as the LEE
Same damage as the LEE (exactly)
Tradeoff:  +1 speed for -8 reach.

Seriously, there's none on the market because that's a shitty tradeoff.  +8 reach is so far far far superior to +1 speed, especially when the LEE is still 99 speed.  If anything the side sword should get the increase to cut damage in order to give it a reasonable tradeoff.  +1 cut +1 speed is a far better tradeoff to -8 reach.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Snoozer on November 05, 2011, 07:44:11 am
well i dont know about you guys.but my main problem with 1h is that it glances a lot(at least for me)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: H4rdn3ssKill3r on November 06, 2011, 10:47:31 pm
Quote from: Siiem on September 26, 2011, 12:09:42 pm
longest 1h sword afaik.

You know if you started using the weapon in question or even reading it you would know that the LEE isn't the longest, the arabian cavalary sword is :/
I agree with this buff, maybe because I have a Balanced Long espeda, but I love the weapon and its Iberian so why the fuck not?
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:13:04 pm
Quote from: H4rdn3ssKill3r on November 06, 2011, 10:47:31 pm
You know if you started using the weapon in question or even reading it you would know that the LEE isn't the longest, the arabian cavalary sword is :/
I agree with this buff, maybe because I have a Balanced Long espeda, but I love the weapon and its Iberian so why the fuck not?

Maybe because it's already so much better than most every other 1her?  How about we work on better internal balance within 1hers like alot of us have been asking for for a long time now.  Such as the imbalance issue between side sword and LEE as I posted, or the fact that all the "shortswords" suck ass.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on November 06, 2011, 11:39:09 pm
Quote from: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:13:04 pm
Maybe because it's already so much better than most every other 1her?  How about we work on better internal balance within 1hers like alot of us have been asking for for a long time now.  Such as the imbalance issue between side sword and LEE as I posted, or the fact that all the "shortswords" suck ass.
Well, when you take a look at the side sword, you see that it's not really ment to cut like a scimitar or an axe and the LEE looks way more "cutty" than the side sword does. So a cut increase to the side sword would make no sense at all. And btw, I'll have a MW one next gen and I'll be happy with it.

Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:41:02 pm
Quote from: Laufknoten on November 06, 2011, 11:39:09 pm
Well, when you take a look at the side sword, you see that it's not really ment to cut like a scimitar or an axe and the LEE looks way more "cutty" than the side sword does. So a cut increase to the side sword would make no sense at all. And btw, I'll have a MW one next gen and I'll be happy with it.

Fine, nerf LEE stab damage then.  The point is an imbalance internally.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: John on November 06, 2011, 11:43:58 pm
Side sword should be nerfed because its model is so damned attractive.  Totally unbalanced compared to other one handers.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:47:16 pm
Quote from: John on November 06, 2011, 11:43:58 pm
Side sword should be nerfed because its model is so damned attractive.  Totally unbalanced compared to other one handers.

I think that's what they did.  Devs are racist against good looking models!
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: B3RS3RK on November 06, 2011, 11:48:04 pm
I played with the Espada since the day it got into cRPG.

it is fine.

You need more athletics dude.Footwork is the key to successfull stabs

I think it should be raised to 28, just to make it a liiiiiiittle more attractive(Almost nobody uses it and pretty much nobody uses it constantly)
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Laufknoten on November 06, 2011, 11:53:37 pm
Quote from: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:41:02 pm
Fine, nerf LEE stab damage then.  The point is an imbalance internally.
When there's an internal imbalance, it's between cut and thrust swords. Most people use elite scim, langes messer and and the "long" swords for a reason. I don't say that thrust is weak (it's actually much better than cut) but the many glances you get, especially as a noob, make people choose named swords instead of the Eslavonas or the Side Sword.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 07, 2011, 12:00:55 am
Quote from: Laufknoten on November 06, 2011, 11:53:37 pm
When there's an internal imbalance, it's between cut and thrust swords. Most people use elite scim, langes messer and and the "long" swords for a reason. I don't say that thrust is weak (it's actually much better than cut) but the many glances you get, especially as a noob, make people choose named swords instead of the Eslavonas or the Side Sword.

Well alot of that is basic math.

cut = 3 attacks
thrust = 1

Therefore a boost to cut damage is an increase to 75% of your attacking power, while a boost to thrust is only 25%.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on November 07, 2011, 01:26:59 am
Quote from: Gorath on November 06, 2011, 11:41:02 pm
Fine, nerf LEE stab damage then.  The point is an imbalance internally.

Please, don't

:(
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 07, 2011, 01:43:09 am
Quote from: Bobthehero on November 07, 2011, 01:26:59 am
Please, don't

:(

Well I personally don't think that nerfing the LEE is a good idea, but people are opposed to buffing the SS to fix the imbalance so....

That's not even getting into the others such as Broad Short Sword (or really any short sword) and other imbalances.
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Digglez on November 07, 2011, 02:01:11 am
no reason to buff this already popular and overused weapon
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Gorath on November 07, 2011, 02:07:36 am
Quote from: Digglez on November 07, 2011, 02:01:11 am
and overused weapon

GIVE US OTHER VIABLE OPTIONS! (Not directed at you Dig, but the Devs.)  Lessee
Steel pick
LEE
Elite Scim

Next tier
Italian sword
some Messers
Title: Re: [Stats] Long Espada Eslanova increase cut-damage from 27 to 29
Post by: Bobthehero on November 07, 2011, 07:15:01 pm
I see more Italians than LEE to be honest.