cRPG

Off Topic => Historical Discussion => Topic started by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 01:23:31 am

Title: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 01:23:31 am
It's really called a capeline helmet, which were commonly used by the hussars, (polish cavalry use them in Fire & sword FFS, how could you not realize this?). I know that chadz is against muskets and wants to stick to one historical period (pre muskets), so why the fuck are we adding morions and now these 17 century helmets to the game?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capeline

Do you guys really care about sticking to the time period? If you don't, then let's add some fucking Roman and Greek armor for fucks sake.


Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 25, 2011, 02:43:20 am
Just an FYI: Morion's  were predominatly used by the Spanish during the New World Conquests. This was actually late reniessance as the Arquebus hadn't supplanted the crossbow in mass usage, yet. In fact, the Conquistadors brought Crossbowmen with them when they attacked the Aztecs.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: SixThumbs on September 25, 2011, 02:56:30 am
I want to be able to cross dress again.

That is all.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 03:32:18 am
Just an FYI: Morion's  were predominatly used by the Spanish during the New World Conquests. This was actually late renaissance as the Arquebus hadn't supplanted the crossbow in mass usage, yet. In fact, the Conquistadors brought Crossbowmen with them when they attacked the Aztecs.

My point is that by the 1400s gunpowder was being used on the European and Eastern battlefields. Navies were using cannons. The Ottomans were implementing it with their Jannisaries "as early as 1440".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_warfare#Ottoman_Empire

Handguns were appearing on the battlefield (matchlock guns) in Europe as well in the 1400s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matchlock#History

 If you want to keep gunpowder out then the cut off should be before the 1400s, as this is the dawn of gunpowder weapons. 



*Edit: Spelling
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Tristan on September 25, 2011, 04:24:56 am
Historical accuracy is not an argument for game balance.

-end thread.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Socrates on September 25, 2011, 04:29:46 am
That's too bad, because adding new armor doesn't turn off balance unless it has ridiculous stats, but since the stats scale according to difficulty/weight/armor it doesn't really matter.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 04:32:52 am
Historical accuracy is not an argument for game balance.

-end thread.


What are you even talking about?

If you're saying that all they care about is keeping gunpowder out because it'd be a pain to rebalance the game, ok, I get that. But then why don't they at least keep it historically accurate and not add a bunch of gun powder era armor?

And if we're just saying we don't give a shit about what era armor is from as long as it looks cool, why the fuck isn't there Roman and Greek armor yet? If you say, "it's not from the medieval era," I'm going to have to call bullshit because neither is a lot of this other armor.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Swahili_Zulu_Mon on September 25, 2011, 04:39:47 am
Zulu Nation existed in 17th. century. Devs, Y U NO MAKE ZULU ARMORZ?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Casimir on September 25, 2011, 06:10:23 am
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Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Dexxtaa on September 25, 2011, 06:11:36 am
Fuck realism.

Fuck it.

Casimir, your link is broken as FUACK
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Casimir on September 25, 2011, 06:12:28 am
Dextaaa


(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on September 25, 2011, 07:01:09 am
+1 for more cool shit, I care not for your time periods and what not. I want to cut off a gladiators head with a samurai sword, while wearing full white kimono with those funny wooden shoes and those insane hats.

That is all, so end-a the transmition.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Thucydides on September 25, 2011, 07:21:15 am
fuck time periods, LISTEN TO THE MASSES chadz :idea:
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Chen1201 on September 25, 2011, 07:38:48 am
FUCK TIME
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Dede on September 25, 2011, 08:31:20 am
Quote
..the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
no

Do you actually read the links you post?
Quote
"The helmet had an oriental origin, being derived from the Ottoman Turkish 'chichak' (Turkish - çiçak) helmet. It was adopted by the Christian states of Europe in the early 17th century.[9][10] It saw widespread use during the Thirty Years War when it became known as the zischagge, a Germanisation of the original Turkish name.[11] Many of these European-made capelines were later imported during the English Civil War. Sometimes older helmets like the burgeonet or sallet were modified to resemble the lobster pot although these were less effective in the field."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capeline

This is the turkish Chichak:
(click to show/hide)


Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: The_Angle on September 25, 2011, 03:10:36 pm
I'm so glad you came along to slap this guy around...

Else I would have had todo it myself. Put an end to mass ignorance before its too late!
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 03:16:36 pm
He didn't even bother to google "Chichak" before claiming it's something else.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Sultan Eren on September 25, 2011, 03:17:29 pm
He's still right that this helmet is not from pre-musket era.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 03:23:05 pm
Yeah but who cares. If c-RPG aimed for realism, everyone on the same side would have to wear the same kind of armor.

I'm all for adding Greek and Roman armors, myself..
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Armbrust_Schtze on September 25, 2011, 03:54:15 pm
it could also be from 16th century. well their criteria (if they have some) for implementing armor sucks anway. look at the new low tier steppe armors, they look aweful.

Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Phalanx300 on September 25, 2011, 04:28:14 pm
In cRPG which doesn't focus on accuracy I don't mind. In fact more items just brings more variation and fun. Personally also a supporter of gunpowder weapons in cRPG, only too bad some people are too narrow minded.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on September 25, 2011, 04:28:46 pm
New armor?

BAN HE
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: rustyspoon on September 25, 2011, 04:31:50 pm
I find it funny when people obsess about the most pointless things. No matter what helmet a guy is wearing he'll still be dead after I stab him a few times.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: joespose on September 25, 2011, 04:43:27 pm
Remind me if i am wrong but this is caldeira not earth. Historical accuracy is lovely and all that, in historical games. but this is a fantasy game. Be thankful chadz doesn't implement Yu-Gi-Oh hairstyles and cloud's buster sword to appeal to a wider audience.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: JiblyjibjibJiblet on September 25, 2011, 04:57:37 pm
Who cares about a fucking helmet, i want my halo plasma sword!
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 05:09:07 pm
We need this in c-RPG.

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Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Osiris on September 25, 2011, 05:25:38 pm
we need the shit from this mod NOAW!

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,52205.0.html?PHPSESSID=a7rmor7tedu9dts84960epc973
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 05:42:22 pm
A lot of that looks pretty low quality.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 25, 2011, 06:03:48 pm
Calradia does not exist.
We need cool stuff in the mod.
You all should probably argue if it fits any Calradian nations, not if it fits any Earth mumbo jumbo.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Laufknoten on September 25, 2011, 07:11:47 pm
Then I want Wehrmacht Uniforms and Stormtrooper suits...

Because:
In fact more items just brings more variation and fun.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Croaker McGee on September 25, 2011, 08:16:16 pm
we need the shit from this mod NOAW!

http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,52205.0.html?PHPSESSID=a7rmor7tedu9dts84960epc973

Would definitely make the resident hoplites happy.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: cmp on September 25, 2011, 08:17:07 pm
Sigh. No Greek/Roman items.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Christo on September 25, 2011, 08:18:32 pm
oo why?

We could "retrofit" them to suit the medieval style, a bit of chainmail here and here.. and that's it.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Bonze on September 25, 2011, 08:20:53 pm
Then I want Wehrmacht Uniforms and Stormtrooper suits...

Because:

My wish list ......

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visitors can't see pics , please register or login



 :twisted:
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Christo on September 25, 2011, 08:22:37 pm
Well, Bonze you can always dress to the map, so you can camo somewhat.

Also MW Arbalest/Steel bolts = Barrett.

 :)
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 08:25:41 pm
Sigh. No Greek/Roman items.

Why not?! You add Turk 16-17th century items, why not Greek/Roman items?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2011, 08:27:42 pm
If someone makes good models that are medieval armors with obvious greek and roman influences they might reconsider.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 08:36:03 pm
He didn't even bother to google "Chichak" before claiming it's something else.

http://i.imgur.com/VzSNI.png


Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Teeth on September 25, 2011, 08:37:45 pm
http://i.imgur.com/VzSNI.png
HAHAAAA!

I now know you live in Sammamish, WA. If you see something moving in the bushes, its probably me.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 08:39:31 pm
http://i.imgur.com/VzSNI.png

It's really called a capeline helmet, which were commonly used by the hussars,



"..being derived from the Ottoman Turkish "chichak" helmet.  It was adopted by the Christian states of Europe in the early 17th century.."

Do you realize what you just posted?

Edit: Or was that just you admitting you were wrong? In which case, ok.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 08:48:11 pm
no

Do you actually read the links you post?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capeline

This is the turkish Chichak:
(click to show/hide)

Yes I did actually read the small one page article I posted. I"m curious though, did you actually bother to read what I posted? I never said it was of European Origin, obviously it was adopted by Europeans, in the 17th century. I argued that it's from the era of gunpowder. Are you going to disagree with that? If you can provide a credible source that says the turks were using them in the medieval period then your criticism might actually hold some water.

The Capeline (Chichak) helms didn't exist in the medieval period, which is when this game is supposedly set. That's my argument. If you have credible evidence that contradicts my criticism, then by all means, share it with the rest of the group. If you don't, please refrain from being childish.

Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 08:50:18 pm
Yes I did actually read the small one page article I posted. I"m curious though, did you actually bother to read what I posted? I never said it was of European Origin, obviously it was adopted by Europeans, in the 17th century. I argued that it's from the era of gunpowder. Are you going to disagree with that? If you can provide a credible source that says the turks were using them in the medieval period then your criticism might actually hold some water.

The Capeline (Chichak) helms didn't exist in the medieval period, which is when this game is supposedly set. That's my argument. If you have credible evidence that contradicts my criticism, then by all means, share it with the rest of the group. If you don't, please refrain from being childish.

You said it's really called a "capeline helmet." It's not, it's "really" called a Chichak, and it wasn't used by the Hussars. Only the capline, which was derived from the Chichak was used by the Hussars.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 08:50:55 pm
HAHAAAA!

I now know you live in Sammamish, WA. If you see something moving in the bushes, its probably me.


OH god, the internet is coming for me.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: The_Angle on September 25, 2011, 08:52:12 pm
Remind me if i am wrong but this is caldeira not earth. Historical accuracy is lovely and all that, in historical games. but this is a fantasy game. Be thankful chadz doesn't implement Yu-Gi-Oh hairstyles and cloud's buster sword to appeal to a wider audience.

Its not fantasy. Rather a historical fiction.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 08:52:59 pm
Sigh. No Greek/Roman items.

Got a reason or is it just personal bias? You obviously can't stand on the "it's not from the historical period" argument...
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 08:55:52 pm
You said it's really called a "capeline helmet." It's not, it's "really" called a Chichak, and it wasn't used by the Hussars. Only the capline, which was derived from the Chichak was used by the Hussars.


... you're missing the point of my argument. And btw, the Chichak and the Capeline are basically the same helmet. If they were really as different as you say they are wouldn't there be a separate Wikipedia article for them already?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 09:00:29 pm

... you're missing the point of my argument. And btw, the Chichak and the Capeline are basically the same helmet. If they were really as different as you say they are wouldn't there be a separate Wikipedia article for them already?

I'm missing no point. I'm not arguing against your "point", simply saying that c-RPG didn't get the name of the helmet wrong.

There being no separate Wikipedia article for the Chichak proves... nothing.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 09:06:43 pm
I'm missing no point. I'm not arguing against your "point", simply saying that c-RPG didn't get the name of the helmet wrong.

There being no separate Wikipedia article for the Chichak proves... nothing.

It proves that "Capeline" is the more commonly known term used to refer to that style of helmet. My original argument had nothing to do with semantics, But if you really want to be that guy and nit pick over petty somatic details... It was not my intention to say that it "wasn't called a chichak helmet", I simply clarified that it's actually more commonly known as the capeline. If it wasn't, why would google pull up "capeline" when I search "Chichak helmet"?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 25, 2011, 09:16:22 pm
It proves that "Capeline" is the more commonly known term used to refer to that style of helmet. My original argument had nothing to do with semantics, But if you really want to be that guy and nit pick over petty somatic details... It was not my intention to say that it "wasn't called a chichak helmet", I simply clarified that it's actually more commonly known as the capeline. If it wasn't, why would google pull up "capeline" when I search "Chichak helmet"?

no it wasn't more commonly called the capeline, the capeline is another helmet completely, although similar in design.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Leshma on September 25, 2011, 09:22:40 pm
I believe that this guy is midly retarded.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 25, 2011, 09:23:41 pm
no it wasn't more commonly called the capeline, the capeline is another helmet completely, although similar in design.

You don't think they're highly similar in appearance and design? Also, the ones in game (if you've gotten a chance to check them out yet) even have have the "lobster tails". Dede's pictures don't even have lobster tails, it seems like the capeline, or "chichak" style of helmets had a lot of variation, and can easily be mistaken for one another.

Whatever the case, I don't really care as this is going off topic. I'm only going to respond to replies about my original point from now on as this semantic discussion is rather trivial, and no one is contributing alternative sources.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Christo on September 25, 2011, 09:26:21 pm
Well, chichak is a very common word.

In hungarian we have a similar word, 'Sisak', it sounds almost the same.

Guess what it means? Helmet. Any kind of a helmet from the medieval knight's, to the modern biker helmets.
Timeline doesn't matter.

So guess what, they once called a helmet a helmet, and they did it again later!

It isn't rocket science, really.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 25, 2011, 10:08:22 pm
Its not fantasy. Rather a historical fiction.

Have I ever professed my most undying love to you?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Brrrak on September 25, 2011, 10:30:30 pm
All I'm reading here is flimsy excuses as to why throwing horses have not yet been implemented.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Turk_Otto_Knight on September 26, 2011, 12:58:15 am
Flamberge ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamberge#Flambard.2C_flammard.2C_and_Flammenschwert
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Vingnir the Wanderer on September 26, 2011, 01:07:08 am
Cichak is fine, but latest crpg period/era.

I think what you should be argueing is why we got 10 turkish helmets, more than half of which's time period is questionable to just barely early enough, and, that we get 10 variations that arent that unique, that cover 10 different additions, but only 3 or 4 models. In fact the Cichak is one of the ones that IS period correct, if just barely.

I mean if your gonna add stuff add 4-5 turkish helmets  (Not the questionable, or ones that only change is add a feather etc.) and 5-6 OTHER designs.   

They are very good models and texture jobs, dont get me wrong.  We dont need 10 of em, at the expense of other things that could have been put in, that add something more than 'late Turkish' period.

And 'period' does matter.

chadz knows this and the dev team knows this too.

Outside of my personal likes and opinion, it does matter, and it is an attraction of the game.  Whether ya like it or not, or even realize it or not, it would not be the same, if you had alot of fantasy items, and way-off time period items.  The mod, would become a parody, and die like an old joke.

-Back to my opinion:

Ancient Greek & Roman legion armor are WAAAAAAAAAAY early for this games time period.  It would, bother anyone who is trying to get into the medieval fiction that is the fields of Calradia.

If they put it in, they also make its weight and its vulnerabilities reflected in the statistics.  I'm strongly against including them, but I dont have any control over things...

I think it would kill the medieval feeling for alot of people though...

Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Thucydides on September 26, 2011, 01:17:27 am
Medieval feel? Crpg feels more like a renaissance turko-russian world than anything resebling medieval europe. There are no knights, no men at arms, just a smattering of randomers dressed in weeabo/russian/turkish/plate armor with steppe archers and light cavalry.... No one goes around with a great lance, or outfitted in armor and destrier. I never had the "medieval" feeling when i joined crpg, because immediately i see out of context weeabos, chinese swords, plate armored sprinters, with some caldarian armor and weapon. Then subsequent items were the russian items, THEN now we see turkish items, what kind of medieval simulation is this?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: BattalGazi on September 26, 2011, 01:31:49 am
Medieval feel? Crpg feels more like a renaissance turko-russian world than anything resebling medieval europe. There are no knights, no men at arms, just a smattering of randomers dressed in weeabo/russian/turkish/plate armor with steppe archers and light cavalry.... No one goes around with a great lance, or outfitted in armor and destrier. I never had the "medieval" feeling when i joined crpg, because immediately i see out of context weeabos, chinese swords, plate armored sprinters, with some caldarian armor and weapon. Then subsequent items were the russian items, THEN now we see turkish items, what kind of medieval simulation is this?

1) This mod was never Turkish adjusted until the recent items are added. Either you are too new for the game or you are just diverting the subject.
2) Chichak is early 15th century Ottoman helmet, and is the only Turkish item that belongs to such a late era compared to others. Boerks ( and solak which is a modified version of boerk ) are far older than that (13-14th century items). Deli cap tries to represent the headgear of "Delis", a light cavalry unit operational on borders, which originated in early 15th century.
3) I presume that you are living in western Europe, where you would want to see medieval through your borders, but, frankly, during mediaval time, Chinese and Turks were there ...
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: DrTaco on September 26, 2011, 02:41:10 am
In my earlier words to a topic near this one.

We need more silly items and armors in CRPG. Fuck you and your historical stat bullshit. I want to have a good time. Also, in the words of Tears Of Destiny, "Calradia never existed" OH YES.

Twisting my words for this certain thread, fuck you(1) and your historical stat bullshit. Give me some awesome looking armors. But silly are of more importance, in my opinion.

(1) You, here, is regarding whoever wants to stay within one period.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: SixThumbs on September 26, 2011, 03:25:30 am
I want 3rd century Chinese armor.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Entaro on September 26, 2011, 08:50:04 am
Seems like you are ignoring the elephant in the room that is Katanas, Samurai Armor & Throwing Stars.

IMO, I like the "medieval" feel of this game (sans Jap stuff).  Once people start complaining about different centuries and russian-anglo-saxter-turkish-persian shit they lost me.  Those helmets you are linking look "medieval" to me.  I know in the real world, that isn't true, but they do look like they belong in a world full of European/west asian chain & plate stuff.

I know thats not "logical" or "historically correct", but using "Historical Fantasty" as a guide, I think it fits the "Calradian Era" fine.  Like I said I think you've got a more obvious issue with Japanese and [argued for in this thread] Ancient Roman/Greek items.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 26, 2011, 09:19:11 am
Seems like you are ignoring the elephant in the room that is Katanas, Samurai Armor & Throwing Stars.

IMO, I like the "medieval" feel of this game (sans Jap stuff).  Once people start complaining about different centuries and russian-anglo-saxter-turkish-persian shit they lost me.  Those helmets you are linking look "medieval" to me.  I know in the real world, that isn't true, but they do look like they belong in a world full of European/west asian chain & plate stuff.

I know thats not "logical" or "historically correct", but using "Historical Fantasty" as a guide, I think it fits the "Calradian Era" fine.  Like I said I think you've got a more obvious issue with Japanese and [argued for in this thread] Ancient Roman/Greek items.


This game is historical fiction, fantasy and all the bundle of sticksry that accompany it do not belong in warband.

The steal work on these helmets is much too advanced to be in the same period as medieval knights in plate armor. The reason these pieces of armor don't belong is that they are from the period of gunpowder.

I'm not saying that it should all be from one period, I'm just pointing out the inconsistancy regarding which armors are included and which are excluded. Since we have japanese crap, and crap from the gunpowder periods, there's no reason not to also include Roman and Greek armor as well, (not to mention byzantine armor which is sorely lacking). I'm not sure on what grounds these armors are being excluded, as the devs / admins aren't really being transparent about the armor selection process. It's a big problem for me if only certain groups are getting their armor in while other groups are being ignored.

my old friend #1 wants to run around in samurai armor slicing up dudes with his katana in a medieval game.
Devs: "Awesome, go do it!"

my old friend #2 loves his turkish heritage and wants to run around in ottoman gear like the Jannisariers of the 15th century.
Devs: "Well, I guess so, that stuff does look pretty cool."

my old friend #3 wants to run around in Greek / Roman armor with a pilla, gladias, hoplon, etc. restoring the glory of the Roman empire one corpse at a time.
Devs: "No. Because fuck you that's why."


Just doesn't make sense to me. I'd be fine with whatever they establish if they were a bit more consistent about it.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Xant on September 26, 2011, 09:24:22 am
Plate armor wasn't really used before the gunpowder period.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Bobthehero on September 26, 2011, 09:25:49 am
You mean too expensive or that it barely existed?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: rufio on September 26, 2011, 09:40:55 am
all i can say is the new armors look like shit, damn they look like pyjamas, and overley shiney korean film outfits, only reason for devs to have put this in is a nice bit off bribe money and some lobbying,
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Vibe on September 26, 2011, 11:46:50 am
I WANT PINK HAIR BACK FOR GODS SAKE
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: chadz on September 26, 2011, 12:04:19 pm
moved the topic where it belongs.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Herald_Hardrata on September 28, 2011, 01:57:05 pm
moved the topic where it belongs.

Paraphrase: Saw criticism, moved the topic where less people will read it. Criticism addressed.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Shik on September 28, 2011, 02:03:05 pm
(click to show/hide)
I'll bite. Note the text near the bottom.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Christo on September 28, 2011, 02:05:04 pm
Nice.

Offtopic: I'd love to see such a wep in cRPG.  :)

More field Polearms to the people!
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Oberyn on September 28, 2011, 02:08:44 pm
Didn't Gorath or someone in ATS once try to do a "modernized" version of legionnary armor? It was supposed to capture the essence/look of roman type armor (lorica segmentata) with some medieval trappings.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: The_Angle on September 28, 2011, 05:57:28 pm
Nice one shik.

As for the other guy - ouch burn.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: mammoni on September 28, 2011, 08:50:28 pm
It's just that having studied history in college these kinds of things tend to bother me more than the average gamer I guess.

The steal work on these helmets is much too advanced to be in the same period as medieval knights in plate armor.

Must have been one hell of an education. Public college?
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: BattalGazi on September 28, 2011, 09:02:38 pm
A passage extracted from "Armies of the Ottoman Turks 1300-1774 By David Nicolle, Angus McBride", please focus on the picture to the right and the explanation below that.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Paul on September 28, 2011, 09:02:56 pm
Polish steal work is the best.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Penitent on September 28, 2011, 09:38:36 pm
No, I don't think there should be greek or roman things in the game.  I think they should remove the 17th century stuff too.

Lets just get more weapons, armor, and shields from the years 1050-1550.  There is SO MUCH variety of gear from that five hundred year period that we should never be in want.
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 28, 2011, 09:40:59 pm
No, I don't think there should be greek or roman things in the game.  I think they should remove the 17th century stuff too.

Lets just get more weapons, armor, and shields from the years 1050-1550.  There is SO MUCH variety of gear from that five hundred year period that we should never be in want.

We don't have any 17th century stuff, besides arguably the plated charger (unarmoured legs point towards very late era when the rest is plate). The helm is 16th century
Title: Re: You guys do know that what we have as the "Chichak" hemets are from 17c. right?
Post by: BattalGazi on September 28, 2011, 09:43:53 pm
I guess Herald_Hardrata have seen enough resources to believe that Chichak is indeed an early 16th century headgear. I ask him to lock this topic, it causes quick misinterpretations and false judgements.