cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Espu on September 24, 2011, 02:33:56 pm

Title: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Espu on September 24, 2011, 02:33:56 pm
We'd like to see alts played more. Currently people feel that playing them is a waste of time as it does not benefit the main at all.

Current idea:

The question is, is this good enough to make playing alts feel sensible again? Just playing the main would let you level up faster (gen bonus), keep the earned gold (and gain smithing skill, but it might work differently later).

Other considered options:

Post if you have something sensible to say on the topic.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Amoebe on September 24, 2011, 02:55:33 pm
But "alt time" = "fun time" and "fun time" != "wasted time", so "alt time" != "wasted time" (as "=" is obviously transitive). Unless someone would think that "fun time" = "wasted time", but what would he/she do in an online game forum then?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Teeth on September 24, 2011, 03:22:52 pm
I always get a nasty taste in my mouth whenever I play on an alt. I just feel like wasting sweet gameplay time. Sadly, trying out different classes on your main takes sooo long.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bjord on September 24, 2011, 03:40:37 pm
And my axe!



EDIT: Also, how about a fee for transferring heirlooms to your main? Say, 50 k or more. That way it's still more beneficial to level your main and retire, at least economically speaking. If you're a lazy bum then you pay the price.

But negative side about this is all the rich people will be able to accumulate full sets of heirlooms way faster and in turn throws off the balance even more.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torp on September 24, 2011, 03:45:10 pm
half alt exp goes to main
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Vibe on September 24, 2011, 03:53:23 pm
half alt exp goes to main

This could work too.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kinngrimm on September 24, 2011, 04:26:01 pm
include xp transfer and i am all for it.

I didn't play my alt because i wanted my main to get better, xp included.
I played my alt only because i got annoyed at some points playing my main, like too many crushthrough or have some fun with throwing or just constantly bad luck :)

So if someone needs to invest time, which is limited he will put it there where he hopes he gets the most out of it.

Why not make a xp pool. Like, if i create an alt it automaticly gets the exp, gens, loom points(not gold and still no market transaction) of the main and if alt gets exp it contributes also to the main char xp.

That way i don't loose time and effort.

Yes there would be soon a lot of powerfull characters, so what? that is balancing as well, isn't it.


EDIT: The other way to do it in my opinion would be, no alts at all, but have the ability to respec for free at any time.
Let me load my latest alternative build i wanted to play again, have fun for some hours as archer, then switch back to cav to test soemthing out, then i load my main role the 1h/shielder. In this option they would all use the same loomed weapons and there would be a greater need for generations to get even more loomed stuff ergo marketplace more important. And the most importan advantage, within strategus i allways have my people do the roles we currently need most.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bulzur on September 24, 2011, 04:54:15 pm
We'd like to see alts played more. Currently people feel that playing them is a waste of time as it does not benefit the main at all.

Current idea:
  • All gold earned on alts goes to main in Strategus just like gold earned on main would
  • Alt can be consumed by main, meaning:
    • Alt is permanently killed
    • All heirlooms on the alt are transfered to main

The question is, is this good enough to make playing alts feel sensible again? Just playing the main would let you level up faster (gen bonus), keep the earned gold (and gain smithing skill, but it might work differently later).

If you implement this, what we'll see will be better mains. Since people will instantly "consume" all their main. But they won't play them.
Rather than consuming xp (wich would also mean people will so consume their alt), i'd rather have another thing :
-When an alt gains xp, 5% of what he gains is added to the main's.

That way, people will "play" their alt, knowing their main can still benefit from it. Since they also earn strategus gold, wich is not dependent of gen, it will become a viable choice. And if you get bored of this alt, the possibility to consume it to get the already-heirloomed items is definitely a good feature.


I'm happy you're thinking about making alts viable again, i'll probably "prepare" my main as archer for strategus, but have fun with a 2h alt or polearm alt for battles. And after 20 gen of alts, what will be my surprise to see my archer being lv32 when i left him 31. :P

Edit :
Nothing happens to the gold earned by alts, when we consumed them, like 10% of the alt's money goes to the main, the rest gets lost in the process ?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Lichen on September 24, 2011, 05:20:36 pm
We'd like to see alts played more. Currently people feel that playing them is a waste of time as it does not benefit the main at all.

  • Alt can be consumed by main, meaning:
    • Alt is permanently killed
    • All heirlooms on the alt are transfered to main
That idea alone would be reason enough to play my alts. +1 Right now there is no ultimate purpose to them. They are separate from the core of the game.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Espu on September 24, 2011, 07:00:11 pm
But "alt time" = "fun time" and "fun time" != "wasted time", so "alt time" != "wasted time" (as "=" is obviously transitive). Unless someone would think that "fun time" = "wasted time", but what would he/she do in an online game forum then?

Yes, this is the sensible way of thinking. If having fun does not count as time well spent then all time spent playing is wasted. Still, this does not really address the issue that most people I've talked to feel that playing main is more rewarding than playing an alt.


Also, how about a fee for transferring heirlooms to your main? Say, 50 k or more. That way it's still more beneficial to level your main and retire, at least economically speaking. If you're a lazy bum then you pay the price.

But negative side about this is all the rich people will be able to accumulate full sets of heirlooms way faster and in turn throws off the balance even more.

This might work. Playing an alt and transfering heirlooms to main (for a price). It would also encourage playing the alt further cause he would have some stuff and gold left over from previous gen, which would create more diversity again.


half alt exp goes to main
When an alt gains xp, 5% of what he gains is added to the main's.

We don't feel that leveling up a char without playing it is good.


..xp pool..

Too big a change, does not really fit the individual character idea. Would alter the fundamental design too much. Interesting idea though.


Nothing happens to the gold earned by alts, when we consumed them, like 10% of the alt's money goes to the main, the rest gets lost in the process ?

The problem with this is farming gold for the main with a low-upkeep alt. The idea with no gold getting transfered over is that then people will aim to use the earned gold as efficiently as possible because it's not gonna be any good after the consumption anyway.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bjord on September 24, 2011, 07:09:14 pm
Well addressed points. Agreed completely.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Overdriven on September 24, 2011, 07:13:03 pm
We'd like to see alts played more. Currently people feel that playing them is a waste of time as it does not benefit the main at all.

Current idea:
  • All gold earned on alts goes to main in Strategus just like gold earned on main would
  • Alt can be consumed by main, meaning:
    • Alt is permanently killed
    • All heirlooms on the alt are transfered to main

This would be great! One of the main reasons I don't play my alts as much is because it doesn't count for anything. I only play them when I feel like wasting time/am slightly bored of my main. But I always go back to my main because it counts for more.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: BcBKC on September 24, 2011, 07:20:00 pm
You're already losing out on gen bonus from playing the alt instead of the main. There is no need for 50k transfer fee. Time is money.  If i play my alt for 3 gens, in the same time i could have done 4 gens on my main and got a extra loom.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 24, 2011, 07:29:18 pm
I am of mixed opinion. Two months ago (or three), I found to my amusement that I play my alts substantially more then my main, and at that time I had about 80million plus experience total invested into the game, and only had (at the time) a Gen 4 main.

I love my alts, they allow me to switch from character to character whenever I feel tired, and give me a fresh look on the game as it allows me to instantly switch roles. However, I do notice that there is a small sense of "waste" whenever I play an alt.

Due to this weird feeling of "waste" I have little reason to ever retire them. it takes me a sizable amount of time to level them, and I have only ever retired one alt once, because while playing an alt can be fun, retiring it to get heirlooms or a gen bonus seems like a large waste of time and energy.

This may sound stupid, and I hate myself for being so vague, but I would like to see somehow a way to provide incentive for people to bother retiring alts. Perhaps make it so they are subjects of your main, and every time they retire your main receives a small amount of gold perhaps (fluffed as tribute or something)?

For the options listed:

Current Idea 1 sounds like a great option, as it encourages people to play whatever they want without feeling like "Oh No I am not contributing to strat" which I hated that feeling. this alone would be wonderful.

Current Idea 2 is not a bad idea, but keep in mind that you WILL see the following:
Main is a post level 30 guy, alts are leveled to 30 once or thrice and then consumed to give main heirlooms WITHOUT using market.
if this idea goes through, I will continue my main's march towards level 34 like normal, but now I will also start leveling an alt to provide additional gear, then consume him so my main now has magical looms as well. This may or may not be a bad thing to let post level 30 characters have easier access to looms. You decide.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kingtrisp on September 24, 2011, 08:03:35 pm
Being able to liquadate your alts and add to your main is a great idea!! :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: IG_Saint on September 24, 2011, 08:08:20 pm
We don't feel that leveling up a char without playing it is good.

In that case how about a bonus to xp and/or gold based on alt play time? Play an hour on an alt, get 5% more xp/gold on your main for an hour.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: VVarlord on September 24, 2011, 08:09:21 pm


Current idea:

  • Alt can be consumed by main, meaning:


When i seen this i was hoping all exp and gold would go to main!!

Highlander The quickening!!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: VVarlord on September 24, 2011, 08:11:11 pm
THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE MAIN!!
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Joxer on September 24, 2011, 09:05:23 pm
Problem with alts looms etc. going to main is that many have specced for completely different style. I for example have an archer alt and those looms would be of 0 use to my main.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: SquishMitten on September 24, 2011, 09:17:02 pm
Problem with alts looms etc. going to main is that many have specced for completely different style. I for example have an archer alt and those looms would be of 0 use to my main.

herp derp marketplace herp
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: VVarlord on September 24, 2011, 09:21:27 pm
Problem with alts looms etc. going to main is that many have specced for completely different style. I for example have an archer alt and those looms would be of 0 use to my main.

who is this guy lol

Give him a star hes now top of the class!

visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kinngrimm on September 24, 2011, 11:33:31 pm
Again i wont stop concentrating on my main, i want my lvl 11 shield skill with lvl 36 so weapons just don't break my shield every now and then, if i have to i will go for 38 to get even 12 shield skill only so i don't have to bother with manual blocking. So there you have my motivation, making things easier for me ... work with it.
The system with all the options you got atm ... , i don't bother with skip the fun, lost time in so many ways. Respec ... are you fucking kidding me, paying/loosing xp .. no deal. Retiring ... not if i don't have to, now as i have the looms i wanted, why would i go through all this pain being a peasent again as all around me are 31+ lvl players.


xp pool or reducing all to one character and switchable/loadable builds is in my opinion the flexible and most enjoyable way as you then can have it all.
Fuck the single char theme. look at Korgoth, he adds to his alts their job discription, how he wants to play them. The alts of your clan mates or of popular players you will know over time as well, to think that the "individual character idear" as an illusion of itself would be so important for this game is a illusion on it's own.
I see that it would take some getting used to and a big change and a lot of work, but the advantages you get out of it ... priceless. Just try to imagine how easy it gets for the player to fit in different roles, always been recognized and when it is done the database will loose some weight ... and yes i am passionate about this idear as i know already to what effects this would lead, seen them been there done that and enjoyed it very much.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Dehitay on September 24, 2011, 11:51:16 pm
Wouldn't a far simpler solution be to just give alts the ability to donate items to the main? If you give all items and gold to the main after killing the alt, you're not really encouraging the playing of alts as much as you're encouraging killing them. However, if you can send heirloomed weapons to your main, it doesn't seem like so much of a waste anymore to play the alt. We can even be all RP about it call it Making Payment to the Lord. Cause your main lords over all your alts.

Oh yeah, and alts definitely need to give gold on Strategus for time played. To be honest, I thought this was already the case. I'm surprised it isn't.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: MrShovelFace on September 25, 2011, 12:01:29 am
50% of exp earned on an alt is transfered to main?
this could help people who like to play strat on a class that sucks to play battle on
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: HarunYahya on September 25, 2011, 12:30:51 am
Just let alt characters access to market.
Low level is no fun since without finished builds you can't do anything.
Shortage of money is no fun because of the upkeep system and prices of items.
Gen 1 is another pain in the ass .
No heirlooms = Sigh...

I mean why would i play with an alt while i could play with my level 30+ main who has a finished and working build with heirloomed items.

Let alts access to market.

Why should i spend months to make my alt as strong as my main.
cRPG is not a MMORPG face it already...
It gets boring there is no crafting system,no raids,no bosses,no quests only PvP and it becomes boring by time which forces people to play with other classes than their main.But low rate of gaining gold,exp and heirlooms with an alt doesn't worth the outcome....
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kinngrimm on September 25, 2011, 01:11:55 am
It gets boring there is no crafting system,no raids,no bosses,no quests only PvP and it becomes boring by time which forces people to play with other classes than their main.But low rate of gaining gold,exp and heirlooms with an alt doesn't worth the outcome....
indeed and those things out of MMORPG i wouldn't want in crpg, but flexibility so that i can at any time play a class i like without the need to grind for a special class for ages ... again and again and again ...
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bjord on September 25, 2011, 01:18:47 am
What you're all asking would require some pretty dramatic changes, not to mention controversial.
 
I mean I feel some sadness in my heart that the system works the way it does, but let's face it; any other way could potentially ruin the mod.
 
If the devs decide to add this and above ideas, please make extensive testing. Really.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Espu on September 25, 2011, 01:22:53 am
One-way transfering looms from alt to main with no extra cost is the most likely solution atm.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bjord on September 25, 2011, 01:26:11 am
One-way transfering looms from alt to main with no extra cost is the most likely solution atm.

 
And in turn killing the alt or simply removing the loom? Or maybe even retire the alt.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Dehitay on September 25, 2011, 01:35:32 am

 
And in turn killing the alt or simply removing the loom? Or maybe even retire the alt.

Why kill the alt? The goal here is to actually have people playing on alts. And retiring is what the alt needs to do in the first place just to get a loom. Even if the alt gets back to level 30 by the time it decides to give the loom to the main, what is the point in forcing a retire after transferring looms?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bjord on September 25, 2011, 01:38:18 am
Why kill the alt? The goal here is to actually have people playing on alts. And retiring is what the alt needs to do in the first place just to get a loom. Even if the alt gets back to level 30 by the time it decides to give the loom to the main, what is the point in forcing a retire after transferring looms?

 
Which is why it was a question and not a suggestion.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Espu on September 25, 2011, 01:40:45 am
Simply transfering the loom.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torben on September 25, 2011, 01:43:37 am
Current idea:
  • Alt can be consumed by main, meaning:
    • Alt is permanently killed
    • All heirlooms on the alt are transfered to main

Quote
nice
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kajia on September 25, 2011, 02:05:18 am
I love my alts, they allow me to switch from character to character whenever I feel tired, and give me a fresh look on the game as it allows me to instantly switch roles.

Same with me.

Low level is no fun since without finished builds you can't do anything.
Shortage of money is no fun because of the upkeep system and prices of items.
Gen 1 is another pain in the ass .
No heirlooms = Sigh...

I have 4 regular chars. 2h, archer, agi-1h and very last my 1h-shielder - in that order. They are still all 1st gen. I loved them all the same, it was a hard tearful decision for choosing my main char. Shielder it is, no doubt, I hope it's the most reasonable for me for strategus. But what I am trying to say is that my main is just one of my alts. That's it. And I love to change my role in combat (btw, what is 'cRPG' meaning? is it combat-RPG? correct me if I'm wrong :?). And it really always feels like another skin, I do react different depending on what I play, you know that feeling. Clothes make the man. Anyways, who doesn't enjoy playing an alt doesn't need to.

so:
- I would not encourage letting the main devour alts. I think it's bullshit to level a different character for the sake of killing him for profit. And it's cruel!
- I would not change anything about the exp gain. Different chars should stay different chars. Like I said, imho a main is just another alt.
- marketplace for all chars? Not a wrong way of thinking I guess, but it will result in uncontrollable hubbub. I'd say no, but read further:

my suggestion is:
What if our chars could sell/trade between them? Like normal items for a bit more than half the selling prize and heirloomed ones for prize * 10 * (loom-level + 1) in gold, maybe?. And don't change exp-gain, cause that's against the logic of role-play, I'd say.

The resulting worst case I can think of would be a char with many loomed items selling them to other chars for relatively nothing while not selling them on the marketplace (if he/she is the main).
In general, when a char is a poor bastard there is still a motivation in getting more money to buy this thing from his char-buddy. And the rich char should think twice about selling his stuff for nothing - can there be exploitation?
It would be a way to balance wealth for that's the most annoying thing about characters. Not the gens.
For alts it will feel like heirloomed items are extra expensive high-class stuff like in native warband, but you can also achieve them by playing long enough. For main chars these items are even more of value, cause of the marketplace.


I think that would be a way to not open the marketplace for all those chars (will get crowded) while still having the possibility to exchange stuff without too big a loss, and it won't get abused as much as there is still the time=money principle and always a small sacrifice.

I don't know if there is an error in reasoning, but it seems a nice idea to me, isn't it?

Cheers
Kajia
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Dehitay on September 25, 2011, 02:15:56 am
I'm pretty sure the reason they don't open the marketplace to alts is because it would allow you to transfer stuff back and forth between your characters. I highly doubt it would put too much of a straing data-wise on the marketplace if alts were allowed to trade. I guess I can understand the problem with letting your characters just constantly switch items whenever you want to play on a different character, but personally, I would like to be able to use the marketplace with my alts. I typically have stupid alts that have a ridiculous amount of extra money because I give them crap for equipment. Like my 11 athletics alt with a katana and bridal gear. What if I want to buy a loomed bridal dress with all the extra money it makes? As of now, that money is just going to waste
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torp on September 25, 2011, 03:55:16 am
i wouldn't want to do that; then you would end up not playnig your alt once again cause you're too lazy to get it back to 30 and dont want to be a peasant. I think the solution is to make alts good to play even at higher levels where yo uactually get to use the build you've worked for.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on September 25, 2011, 08:26:43 am
Gaining xp on the main sounds like a good idea.

A common pool of gold also sounds like a good idea. I see the possible issues with it so why not make it a common pool of gold amoungst alts with a small % like 10 or 15 going through to the main.

Also would it be possible to nominate an alt to play in strat as well as your main?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: SquishMitten on September 27, 2011, 04:08:13 pm
I wish to consume my alts, om nom nom nom
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Camaris on September 27, 2011, 04:27:50 pm
Next suggestion:

Make Generation XP-Bonus global not only at the one you got it.

10 Gens on one Char => 10 Gens XP Bonus on every other Char.
3 Gens on Archer 4 Gens on Shielder 2 on Rider => 9 Gens XP Bonus on every Char.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Lt_Anders on September 27, 2011, 04:51:14 pm
Next suggestion:

Make Generation XP-Bonus global not only at the one you got it.

10 Gens on one Char => 10 Gens XP Bonus on every other Char.
3 Gens on Archer 4 Gens on Shielder 2 on Rider => 9 Gens XP Bonus on every Char.

Once you pass 16 gens, though, this bonus is obsolete.
Though I hate playing my alt because it doesn't benefit my main, at all! No gold, no looms, nothing. 1%xp from alt to main shouldn't be so bad? I mean that's like 20 xp(average) per tick. You won't level your main by it, but you'll get a small benefit from playing on other classes.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2011, 05:14:27 pm
Just put all your heirloomed items in the same pool, shared with all your chars. When any char retires, you get a new "global" heirloom point. That way you can play your alts to get looms for your main, or other alts. But the high-gen char will still grind xp faster.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torben on September 27, 2011, 09:29:00 pm
couldnt we make alts be able to participate on the market?  would be good enough for me to play them frequently...
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Ylca on September 27, 2011, 10:11:45 pm
I find it interesting that many of the people who complain about X class are all for this change. What do you think happens the day there are bonuses implemented for having an alt? Say hello to everyone have a full level alt for every situation. You thought ranged was bad now? Wait until everyone in a clan can pull out their shelf archer/xbowman. You think one crushthrough weapon is bad? Watch the enemy team leave and rejoin all with new names and weapons perfect for the situation!

I think alts are really for fun and the restrictions they have keep this from becoming a ridiculous game of "who has the best alt for the situation". If you really think about it the whole concept of banner balance makes this a possibly terrible idea for gameplay.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tears of Destiny on September 27, 2011, 10:13:00 pm
I have a full level alt for every situation *smugface*
Besides horse archer... need to level that gal back up.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kafein on September 27, 2011, 10:25:27 pm
I find it interesting that many of the people who complain about X class are all for this change. What do you think happens the day there are bonuses implemented for having an alt? Say hello to everyone have a full level alt for every situation. You thought ranged was bad now? Wait until everyone in a clan can pull out their shelf archer/xbowman. You think one crushthrough weapon is bad? Watch the enemy team leave and rejoin all with new names and weapons perfect for the situation!

I think alts are really for fun and the restrictions they have keep this from becoming a ridiculous game of "who has the best alt for the situation". If you really think about it the whole concept of banner balance makes this a possibly terrible idea for gameplay.


Changes that would make playing alts and switching classes easier would go a long way towards balancing the game. Now, issues are very hard to spot because people aren't free to play what they think is best. Making it easier to switch chars would let all the balance problems appear very clearly.

If we had a class system ala Native and everyone was playing as archer, then hey, maybe devs would nerf archers.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Riddaren on September 27, 2011, 11:10:08 pm
Marketplace for alts!

Letting alts use the marketplace is a bad idea since it will be abused.
Anything that can be abused will be abused and it would be unfair to those who didn't abuse it.
It will also put a lot more pressure on the crpg server and it will probably cuase some other technical problems as well...

Strategus for alts!

If you have a main character that you never retire you are stuck with it in Strategus.
Would be really nice to have some variation.

Luckily there is a solution to this: make it possible to change main character (every 3 months or something).

- If you go to the marketplace with a new main character all of the offers by your previous main character will be removed. And you can't trade with yourself.
- Make Strategus global so that all characters (main and alts) share the same Strategus account no matter what character is the main (gold, troops, items, faction membership...)
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Serth on September 27, 2011, 11:50:54 pm
I would bloody love to eat up alts, i have an alt with a masterwork German and a +1 Arba. And poop tons of gold and Gen. If that happend i would be back in crpg playing aloooooot more :)
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kono yaro! on September 28, 2011, 12:31:39 am
consume is the best option imo, so even if you play an alt you like and gen it you can still change your mind and the looms won't be lost forever
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Braeden on September 28, 2011, 06:18:38 am
I think I have more alts than should be reasonably played, so I'm all for a suggestion to improve the value you get.

I definitely approve of giving the same gold bonus for strategus, so you don't feel like you are betraying your clan for playing them.

Downside to transferring looms to main would be that you can now push your main towards level 35 while still gaining looms from alts.  Which would be nice, but possibly overpowered.  I like it too much to support it without reservations.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torben on September 28, 2011, 12:53:07 pm
everyone please check out this thread:

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,16981.0.html
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: SeQuel on September 30, 2011, 01:17:41 am
I agree with this idea.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: slothscott on September 30, 2011, 02:15:38 am
Makes me wish I didn't stf my alts thinking that the heirlooms they had were useless.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Torben on September 30, 2011, 09:30:36 am
Makes me wish I didn't stf my alts thinking that the heirlooms they had were useless.

ask okin about this.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Gisbert_of_Thuringia on September 30, 2011, 12:54:09 pm
If you can put everything from your alt to your main people will still play their main ;)

They lvl faster with main so they get new looms alot faster.

And most will just play with their main, because it's their main, when they get everything they can achieve with an alt on their main as well^^

What about giving alts the opportunity to trade on the market?
Or whatever you have on your mind, but you should make something special about alts so people want to play with them ;)

Maybe you could also make it possible for alts to join strat battles?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kinngrimm on September 30, 2011, 05:47:15 pm
As long alts aren't equal in most of ways they will be always ranked second hence the term alts.

I could live with not being able to trade on the marketplace with alts, but not that the time invest there is less worth(generation depending xp enhancer i have on my main).

Then again i want to get one of my char(the main) to be really good in stuff he does, so i work on his generations and on his maximum level. Want me to play more with my alt, either same xp pool or get rid of alts altogether and let me load different builds. Getting some extra xp to my main still doesnt make me wanna play alts more. 10% xp wwhile playing alts to main what is that ^^.

Then again, i play my thrower mostly when i got annoyed because of something i cant do shit about with my main, so just get more OP and IMBA stuff like chrushthrough into the game and i will switch regularly to my alt.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Leshma on September 30, 2011, 06:55:40 pm
Then again, i play my thrower mostly when i got annoyed because of something i cant do shit about with my main

You have alt? :shock:
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bulzur on November 05, 2011, 07:10:01 pm
A shameless bump, haven't heard about this for... a little more than a month.

Would appreciate knowing if it's gonna be "interesting" to play our alts again, or if i should just forget about them. The original suggestions from Espu sure would be enjoyable.

(click to show/hide)

I do see people playing their alt, now and then. But they're a minority. Personnaly, i always get bored and back to the "but why not play my main, at least i'll use the gold" after less than one hour of alt. Even more with the pink text and strategus.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Zisa on November 05, 2011, 07:15:45 pm
meh. Not too keen on the idea of alts feeding mains etc.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Duke on November 05, 2011, 09:03:17 pm
What if alts could buy loom points and mains could transfer gold to the alts?
(Main can send gold to alts but not vice versa. No item transferring)

It'd be a gold sink if nothing else but might also make things interesting.
Might need to make it so the alt must be Gen 2 before it can buy points...
to avoid the (*cough*) respec gold farming (*cough*)
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: sF_Guardian on November 05, 2011, 11:01:37 pm
Good idea, make alts more viable.

Its signed
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: kinngrimm on November 05, 2011, 11:05:02 pm
let them at leat take part in strat battles, you dont need them on the map, but it would give us more flexibility for battles if alts could participate there. May even have an effect to have better tactics as we then could calculate better what classes are represented.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: VVarlord on November 05, 2011, 11:07:05 pm
let them at leat take part in strat battles, you dont need them on the map, but it would give us more flexibility for battles if alts could participate there. May even have an effect to have better tactics as we then could calculate better what classes are represented.

Every archer and his dog would be out to play. Alts should never be allowed in strat. You want to use a certain spec? Change your main.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Bulzur on November 06, 2011, 01:31:19 am
Every archer and his dog would be out to play. Alts should never be allowed in strat. You want to use a certain spec? Change your main.

Agreed. ONLY main should be used in strat.
You can already win strat gold while playing alts, fine for strat.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Gurnisson on November 06, 2011, 02:49:39 am
Archer alts were a curse that now has been lifted. Let's not bring it back, right? :wink:
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on November 06, 2011, 04:40:15 am
50% of XP and 25% gold earned by alts is replicated and goes to main.

I don't understand how the main having gold undermines the smithing skill? If that is the case then all the 2010 players already have such a retarded advantage its not worth worrying about unless you want to reset the whole thing and, kill the mod. Also the lvl 26 thing must be undermining the hell out of it.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Mordaunt on November 06, 2011, 08:01:21 am
Certain exotic weapons and armours accessible only by earning them with alts then transferring them to your main, people will do almost anything to be fashionable.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kafein on November 06, 2011, 12:30:41 pm
Certain exotic weapons and armours accessible only by earning them with alts then transferring them to your main, people will do almost anything to be fashionable.

This. Sounds epic !
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Miley on November 07, 2011, 01:06:00 am
I really like playing on my alts, but I feel like I'm wasting time not gaining gold for Strategus. I have alts with heirlooms, and it would be nice to be able to transfer them to my main; I think the idea is great.

I especially like the first two points :D
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tydeus on November 07, 2011, 01:51:26 am
Possibly a stupid question, but: Why do alts need to be played more? I don't really see what this adds to the mod as a whole, rather than to individuals themselves, in which case, thinking about fixes for this problem might be easier when viewed from this perspective.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: VVarlord on November 07, 2011, 02:01:12 am
Possibly a stupid question, but: Why do alts need to be played more? I don't really see what this adds to the mod as a whole, rather than to individuals themselves, in which case, thinking about fixes for this problem might be easier when viewed from this perspective.

Encouraging people to play alts keeps people interested and also mixes things up abit.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tydeus on November 07, 2011, 04:08:45 am
If that's the case, why even have alts? Why not just allow people to respec whenever they want without a penalty? What is it that makes alternate characters a necessity, rather than the afore mentioned system that would seemingly solve all of the problems?
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Gurnisson on November 07, 2011, 04:38:45 am
Why not just allow people to respec whenever they want without a penalty?

Strategus. Respec cav for cav maps, archers for open maps when you have a lot of bows, shielder when you need more shielders etc.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tydeus on November 07, 2011, 04:56:36 am
Strategus. Respec cav for cav maps, archers for open maps when you have a lot of bows, shielder when you need more shielders etc.
Then why wouldn't you just allow everyone to have 1 alt that could respec whenever you wanted, without penalty, as well as allowing the alt to use the main's equipment(this includes looms). Couldn't abuse anything strat related this way.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Snoozer on November 07, 2011, 08:35:31 am
i personally like either respec whenever you want idea or the pool xp idea

you guys are worried about this apocalypse of stupid classes? that happens anyways
every patch people do this shit this patch was a "apocalypse" of archers and throwers and before that if i recall was a xbow fest
and some weird fluctuation of classes that i have no idea why it happens maybe some wierd flavor of the week happens due to some circumstance

i would prefer to have control over that anyways

and what if they adapt to being a cav on a cav map?you adapt being a polearm
and what if they adapt to being a archer on a archer map?you adapt and be a shielder
we have to do this anyways i do not see what the problem is

Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Overdriven on November 07, 2011, 11:37:02 am
Then why wouldn't you just allow everyone to have 1 alt that could respec whenever you wanted, without penalty, as well as allowing the alt to use the main's equipment(this includes looms). Couldn't abuse anything strat related this way.

Because that would mean whenever you want to try a different class you have to respec back/buy equipment ect. Unless that alt is over loaded with equipment. It's nice having 1 char of each class and just being able to type their name in the box and play whenever you feel like playing that one.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Tydeus on November 07, 2011, 06:57:31 pm
Because that would mean whenever you want to try a different class you have to respec back/buy equipment ect. Unless that alt is over loaded with equipment. It's nice having 1 char of each class and just being able to type their name in the box and play whenever you feel like playing that one.
Respec back and buy equipment? That's not really much of a con. In fact, respecing goes on the pros side, so all you're left with is having to buy equipment. Oh wait, because it uses the main's equipment, you wouldn't really have to buy anything more than just weapons. That's a very minor issue for having solved this entire problem. Look at any of the other proposed ideas in this thread. Most of them don't even get at the heart of the problem. Simply adding gold/xp to a main character will never be enough for a lot of people, unless it's a 1:1 ratio of what they would get playing their main. Other's would still complain that the looms their alts have, can't be given to their main characters so retiring is useless, thus creating even less of an incentive to try something new.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 08, 2011, 12:41:36 pm
Solution: get rid of retiring and heirlooms already! It was only introduced to reduce tincans, it failed, now we got upkeep for that.

ok, ok, while this truly would encourage playing alts again even I don't think it is possible anymore. Too many people (including me) got used to and/or addicted by it now. "I wantz complete heirloom set before playing alts again."

Then why wouldn't you just allow everyone to have 1 alt that could respec whenever you wanted, without penalty, as well as allowing the alt to use the main's equipment(this includes looms). Couldn't abuse anything strat related this way.
.
I like the idea about the main's equipment. What I don't like is that you can't have different character names "secured" and the fitting faces.

So why not let all alts us 1 family-equipment stash (main equipment)? Gold (and xp) would stay seperated and you only need it on alts for paying upkeep for that one. You can earn no extra money for buying equipment, but you can heirlom stuff for main.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Dalhi on November 08, 2011, 01:04:11 pm
So why not let all alts us 1 family-equipment stash (main equipment)? Gold (and xp) would stay seperated and you only need it on alts for paying upkeep for that one. You can earn no extra money for buying equipment, but you can heirlom stuff for main.

This.

That would also kill the multiaccounting issue, if someone has second Warband cd-key he bought it to provide looms/gold for his main character, not for strategus. At the moment playing alts is not rewarding and it stopped people from doing this, of course everyone from time to time plays on his alt (mostly STF I guess) if he gets bored of his class at main, but don't fool yourself after few hours it becomes pretty obvious that it's pointless. I don't see any game balance issues since everyone will be able to do that, and yes keep the experience and gold separate, this might be somehow problematic since you've got one stash for all your characters, so maybe only main character should be able to buy equipment from store and marketplace.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on November 08, 2011, 01:20:56 pm
only main character should be able to buy equipment from store and marketplace.
yup, thats what I had in mind. I think this there has to be some major drawback in this, but I don't know what it could be right now.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Osiris on November 08, 2011, 11:41:46 pm
alts are fun :D ive had and deleted so many :D

I deleted a gen 2 alt shielder because my main is now a shielder thus pointless :D still have a gen 2 nearly gen 3 archer :D and a gen 1 cav with 900k to retirement tho had to sell the horse :( had multiple lvl 30 gen 1 alts (before free upkeep) and deleted a fair few of them :D If we had loom trades id have a masterwork item on my main pretty much for free. The point of alts is to have FUN! make different builds. Have a 2hander alt if your an archer etc.

The strat gold gained via alts is all we need. Perhaps if you could convert strat gold into crpg gold for your main it would help get more non clan members to play alts and participate in strat :D
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Korgoth on November 09, 2011, 03:04:53 am
Seeing as I'm Korgoth The Alt Whore.

I like a lot of these ideas. I actually play my alts more than my main :/ so a lot of these ideas could help me actually play my main more often.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: MouthnHoof on November 09, 2011, 03:59:14 pm
When retiring an alt, allow it to inherit all its belonging to any of your characters

This means very long cycles of equipment/money transfers. Since you spent time in the game and money is the same as spending time, there is no balancing issue. For the other players it does not matter if I play my main or my alts, they do not see any real difference.

No XP transfer. That is silly and against the very word "experience", as you main did not experience anything.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Rhygar666 on November 09, 2011, 04:33:46 pm
in my case it would be enough if you just make it possible to trade heirlooms between alts both ways ( from main to alt, and alt to main)
So it makes fun playing alts again.
And also make them earn Strategus money like the main, always leaves a bad taste playing alt, cuz you dont earn Strat money.
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: marco1391 on November 09, 2011, 09:06:03 pm
alts are fun :D ive had and deleted so many :D

I deleted a gen 2 alt shielder because my main is now a shielder thus pointless :D still have a gen 2 nearly gen 3 archer :D and a gen 1 cav with 900k to retirement tho had to sell the horse :( had multiple lvl 30 gen 1 alts (before free upkeep) and deleted a fair few of them :D If we had loom trades id have a masterwork item on my main pretty much for free. The point of alts is to have FUN! make different builds. Have a 2hander alt if your an archer etc.

The strat gold gained via alts is all we need. Perhaps if you could convert strat gold into crpg gold for your main it would help get more non clan members to play alts and participate in strat :D
haha dude 7 identical emoticons in the same post, I think it's a record
Title: Re: Making alts more viable again
Post by: Kafein on November 09, 2011, 10:10:50 pm
haha dude 7 identical emoticons in the same post, I think it's a record


 :arrow: There's no limit  :!: :|


Hell I could just type  :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

ho wait I did it



What would make me play alts :

either :

* Being able to join strat battles with them (bad idea, exploiting the best alt for every situation, yet it would make the balancing easier)

* A global gen count (with a slightly lower xp bonus and more gen before the cap)

* An xp pool. To level up you "buy" your level with xp. Everyone puts xp in the same pool, that way you can play alts and directly contribute to your main even if you don't want to play with it. Don't do that with gold ofc. otherwise everybody would be switching between a low upkeep char and high upkeep char all the time.

* A pool for heirloomed stuff. And ONLY heirloomed stuff. Otherwise you could buy something with one char and sell it with the other, in the end making the money transfers we want to avoid. Nobody would buy or spend heirloom points for transferring a few thousand gold. The good thing is that it would allow alts to use the marketplace indirectly (through the main) yet without compromising upkeep.