Giving poleaxes , two handed secondary mode will add more diversity in this game.
This addition could be applied on all poleaxes (German Poleaxe , Elegant Poleaxe , Poleaxe+ bec maybe)with pierce thrust damage except the ones that have higher than 145 reach and/or already unbalanced.
Why should we add this ?
Poleaxes are long weapons designed for multi purpose.With the current animation/grip it's fast,balanced,deals good damage but outranges by a 1 handed sword.If i was a polearm infantry irl , if i see a horse charging at me why would i hold my weapon from it's middle and die by cav's lance ? I would change my grip to the end of my weapon and stab my enemy.We don't have this freedom in cRPG.I face this ridiculous occasion always on battlefield like being backpedalled by scimitar etc...
When you switch to 2h mode things to be changed:
- Your weapon will become unbalanced
+Gain reach by 2h animation
-speed %5
-damage
swing damage: -%10 damage
thrust damage :-%20 damage
elegant poleaxe stats:
Elegant Poleaxe
weapon length: 132
weight: 2
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 92
weapon length: 132
thrust damage: 26 pierce
swing damage: 39 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Bonus against Shield
elegant poleaxe on 2h mode:
Elegant Poleaxe
weapon length: 132
weight: 2
difficulty: 16
speed rating: 87
weapon length: 132
thrust damage: 21 pierce
swing damage: 35 cut
slots: 2
Can't use on horseback
Unbalanced
Bonus against Shield
2H Mode for poleaxes will make polearms unbalanced so it won't add anything new to Polearm-2h flamewar.
Polearm users whine about their animation because they can't feint like 2handers, 2handers whine about polearms cuz of their stun.
It'll add more tactical gameplay and diversity of item usage.
Consider this , let me know if its possible to do without WSE implementation and discuss !
Add pros and cons share your ideas and vote on poll please.
Thanks for your time.
edit : Thanks to Neresto for reminding : Poleaxes on 2h mode will use 2h wpf.
again and again and guess what? again.
poleaxes pierce better, cut better, stop horses, break shields, stagger, stun lighter weapon blocks and OMFG you even want the 2h switch on them? what about a cool ability to switch them to throwing poleaxes with 100p? so just in case a shielder is running away from you when you break his shield in 2 hits you can finish him throwing your jack-of-all-trades poleaxe in the ass? (obviously with a homing device on the head because you know... dedicated throwers MAY have better accuracy)
so with a spec line you can do:
- pikeman
- horseman would require riding skills, which would make everything else you can do worse.
- halberdier
- billman what's the difference between this one and the one above? That's like saying a 2h can be both an axeman/mauler/danish greatswordman, german greatswordman, flamberger etc.
- staffmaster Same as the above comment. Although if you mean a DEDICATED staffmaster, than you would have to tailor a build around it (making you unable to do anything of the else)
- spearman Would require shieldskill AND a specific build around it. This would make you useless in any of the other "Roles". This is also the most gimped build ever and in need of a buff, but that's another discussion.
- twohander This is what "most" polearm users are already. None of them have shieldskill/riding/throwing, and since they are either 21/18 or 18/21 they wont be very good, or even possible at all, as pikemen/halberdmen (better than 1 wpf pikemen, but WAY worse than dedicated), staffmasters (maybe the 18/21, but would otherwise have to little wpf and athl), spearmen (no shieldskill), throwers (no PT) and horsemen (no riding).
- thrower they would have to take away skillpoints, and more importantly wpf, to be a thrower. Sure it works, but so can 2handers. Even better really since the 1 slot 2handers are better than the 1 slot polearms.
just put some xbow wpf and the only thing you cannot do with that build is the archer.1
think about it.
1: I also tried to make a build that used all of those you wrote. Let's see how OP it is.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 3
Athletics: 5
Riding: 5
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 6
Polearm: 103
Crossbow: 100
Throwing: 100
Looks good doesn't it? Well let's also take a look at which of the roles you listed it can use properly
- pikeman Check. BUT it has way too little athl so your gonna be bumrushed with no chance to fight back. You can switch weapons but that usually means they get a free hit. Considering the 0 IF and that they are probably gonna be a dedicated melee, your not gonna win (we always assume the people are of equal skill)
- horseman Check. The riding is a bit low, but not that bad. You can be a decent horseman. You can even have a shield with your lance! (but what about when you are dehorsed? Well fuck you! Use your quarterstaff/short spear to fight of the angry mob that decends on you! OR use that 1 stack of throwing you took with you or the crossbow (without ammo) to fight them off!)
- halberdier Same as pikeman, but slightly better at dueling.
- billman Totally different than pike and halberdier! This is gonna be REALLY... Just joking, same as those two.
- staffmaster Check. But you're gonna be gimped as hell, having way too little athl. You could take some throwing daggers/darts with you. Might take away 1% of the enemy health before he stomps your ass in.
- spearman No. Nothing works as a spearman because spearmen in gimped into oblivion. But compared to OHTER spearmen, you are gonna be slower, worse shield, less health, less damage. Although you CAN take away the shield and use it as a normal 2h, but that would kinda defeat the whole purpose of being a spearman then.
- twohander Check. Your gonna be outskilled by dedicated twohander polearms, but you might get in a a bolt or two, or a couple of throwing whatever, before they close in, making it a more even fight.
- thrower Check. Sure you can be throwing! After all your might 4 PT and 100 wpf makes you the scourge of the land! And if you take 3 slots of throwing weapons (as any hybrid thrower worth his salt does) you can use the MIGHT quarterstaff! :O
I am also gonna say that "all" twohanders can be:
-Swordsmen
-Axemen
-Maulers
-Throwers
-Horsemen
-Shielders
-Flambergers (because the flamberge isn't a sword herpaderpa)
-Crossbowmen
-Archers
-Macemen
I claim this because those are all possible variations of how you can tailor a build and still use 2h. Thus all 2handers can do that.
1: I also tried to make a build that used all of those you wrote. Let's see how OP it is.
Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 18
Agility: 18
Skills to attributes: 2
Power Strike: 6
Shield: 3
Athletics: 5
Riding: 5
Power Throw: 4
Weapon Master: 6
Polearm: 103
Crossbow: 100
Throwing: 100
Looks good doesn't it? Well let's also take a look at which of the roles you listed it can use properly
- pikeman Check. BUT it has way too little athl so your gonna be bumrushed with no chance to fight back. You can switch weapons but that usually means they get a free hit. Considering the 0 IF and that they are probably gonna be a dedicated melee, your not gonna win (we always assume the people are of equal skill)
- horseman Check. The riding is a bit low, but not that bad. You can be a decent horseman. You can even have a shield with your lance! (but what about when you are dehorsed? Well fuck you! Use your quarterstaff/short spear to fight of the angry mob that decends on you! OR use that 1 stack of throwing you took with you or the crossbow (without ammo) to fight them off!)
- halberdier Same as pikeman, but slightly better at dueling.
- billman Totally different than pike and halberdier! This is gonna be REALLY... Just joking, same as those two.
- staffmaster Check. But you're gonna be gimped as hell, having way too little athl. You could take some throwing daggers/darts with you. Might take away 1% of the enemy health before he stomps your ass in.
- spearman No. Nothing works as a spearman because spearmen in gimped into oblivion. But compared to OHTER spearmen, you are gonna be slower, worse shield, less health, less damage. Although you CAN take away the shield and use it as a normal 2h, but that would kinda defeat the whole purpose of being a spearman then.
- twohander Check. Your gonna be outskilled by dedicated twohander polearms, but you might get in a a bolt or two, or a couple of throwing whatever, before they close in, making it a more even fight.
- thrower Check. Sure you can be throwing! After all your might 4 PT and 100 wpf makes you the scourge of the land! And if you take 3 slots of throwing weapons (as any hybrid thrower worth his salt does) you can use the MIGHT quarterstaff! :O
I am also gonna say that "all" twohanders can be:
-Swordsmen
-Axemen
-Maulers
-Throwers
-Horsemen
-Shielders
-Flambergers (because the flamberge isn't a sword herpaderpa)
-Crossbowmen
-Archers
-Macemen
I claim this because those are all possible variations of how you can tailor a build and still use 2h. Thus all 2handers can do that.
my alt cav build:
Legio_Bodyguard
RoleAlternate
Age45 [30]
Generation2
Gold8,217
Experience5,022,636
+3,713,207
Level up at8,735,843
Kills599
Deaths316
Rank#4291
Attributes
Available points: 0
Strength 15
Agility 23
Weapon proficiency
Available points: 5
One Handed 1 1 point per wpf
Two Handed 1 1 point per wpf
Polearm 163 11 points per wpf
Archery 1 1 point per wpf
Crossbow 1 1 point per wpf
Throwing 1 1 point per wpf
Skills
Available points: 1
Iron Flesh 1 3 strength per level
Power Strike 5 3 strength per level
Shield 0 3 agility per level
Athletics 4 3 agility per level
Riding 7 3 agility per level
Horse Archery 0 6 agility per level
Power Draw 0 3 strength per level
Power Throw 0 3 strength per level
Weapon Master 7
main role is cavalry. but is retardedly efficent on foot as an axemen, as a pikeman, LAWLpike stabber. Open map, i just roam with my arabian. Closed map i just stick with a Lo(L)ng Spear silly poking with a backup long axe for those never dying turtles. in siege i can flank with the LAWLpike and stab&stunlock for the win.
all crappy and cheap stock gear (studded leather coat, mail coif, scale gauntlets, long spear, awlpike, long axe, rouncey, arabian). i have 8k gold total and i'm a nab with it. still my k/d is almost 2:0.
polearms is just enuff easymode. no need to buff em further.
Some people forget that polearms have super-shit animations that make up for the bonus against shields and stun. Damage and speed wise, 2h and polearms are pretty much the same.
Polearms can do many things with many weapons. But in fact 2h can do nearly as many with only one weapon : a DGS or GGS. You are extremely hard to kill as cav (way harder than poleaxe users), you can backpedal shielders, you have the best duelling weapon and due to their 2h nature, your side swings go through teammates unlike with polearms.
some other people forget how bugged awlpike and longspear animations are (leading to jack-in-a-box thrusts, overhead to thrust awlpike animation lead to ghost thrusts), ability to strafe-spamming& stunlocking side swings with a glaive/milit scythe/LHB.
2h have no cav weapons (all 2handed weapons are held with one hand on horse so giving em the bastard 1h 20%penalty)
i really have no issue dueling with a glaive/LHB/long axe/elegant poleaxe.
your sideswings hit teammates but 2h overhead hits your teammate behind most of the time.
backpedal shielders? halberdiers can't? o_0
Or a 2h, since they outrange everything except the 2 attack direction weapons.
omg.. you guys keep saying i'm shitstorming your smart suggestion about this new feature.
it's really simple. you made a poll to ask if people agree or don't. i just stated my reason about why i disagree.
then koyama say i'm going off topic and you jarlek keep doing the same? wtf?
no need to argue about that. you don't need to keep saying i'm wrong since i don't need to defend my opinion about that. i just gave mine since there is a poll requesting the vote reasons.
looking at the poll results, majority speaks, people disagree. deal with it.
[troll mode on]
i knew debating serious things with someone who have a pokemon avatar, would go nowhere. :mrgreen:
[troll mode off]
for the sake of balance, if you want something long, you grab a pike.
because you don't read. in short i wrote:
polearms have MANY purposes versus other weapon lines. SO another FEATURE giving even MORE DIVERSITY is just too much.
Corrado you are still going off topic...
I am saying THIS TOPIC IS ABOUT POLEAXES !
Sadly you keep saying "There is no need to add something to polearms , if reach is too short grab a pike."
This is where you go off topic....
Poleaxes are multi purpose weapons and because of it's retardic grip it has only 1 role on battle field which is hacking and slashing.(+Stabbing ofc)
I am suggesting adding sugar on coffee and you still keep saying "meh if you want sweet flavour , eat chocolate instead."
Coffee=Poleaxe,Sugar=2h mode, Chocolate=Pike
Every weapon line(2hander,Polearm,1hander...) has MANY purposes i am talking about a weapon type(Swords,spears,axes,poleaxes) on a weapon line.This suggestion is about a weapon type which is poleaxes .
Tell me what would implementing this screw game ? How would it make you feel sad and angry ?
Polearm users using weapons with über penalties with their 1 two handed wpf.How could it make you go rage and yell at servers "THIS IS TOO MUCH NOOOOO!?!?!?" ?You are saying "NO ! " to the suggestion but your point of view biased imo.
Again :
This suggestion is about
adding
2handed mode with penalties that had been stated on 1st post to:
German Poleaxe
Elegant Poleaxe
Poleaxe
Reason of this suggestion is again:
Giving multipurpose role to Poleaxes as they should.
It's neither a polearm or 2hander buff/nerf.
It'll give poleaxe users a chance to change their grip according to situations.
It'll give 2handers a chance to play with long poleaxes with their 2h wpf.
Please post what would be the negative effect of this implement to servers.
Post some constructive comments its not "Who's dick is longer 2handers or polearms ?" thread.
What would this implement bring to cause chaos and QQ ?
Denying it because polearms have long spears is not the way...
If you believe this will fuck your game experience post why and then deny please.
Yes under one circumstance. 2 handed weapons in polearm mode automatically become as long as a poleaxe. That's the only way to balance it.
Flamberge
weapon length: 152