cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 12:59:54 am

Title: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 12:59:54 am
Maybe it's just me, but after some playing, I found out that my 6PS build is not enough nowadays.

Lots of things happened since I thought up my build, so yeah, it's kinda outdated.

Maybe it's related to heirloomed armour, maybe it's because the new armor soak mechanic, or that more ppl just stack STR.
I can't really tell more than my current Powerstrike is just not enough, fights take too long, and I'm hardly effective at all.

In your opinion, what's the optimal PS for a melee centered build? That can cut through?
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Bjord on August 11, 2011, 01:05:29 am
Aim for the head, it's not hard to hit.

And even powerstrike 5 is enough, especially with a polearm. You just need to find the sweet spot mechanic if you haven't already.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Phew on August 11, 2011, 01:08:16 am
I tend to think in terms of "1-shot percentage", and I notice it jumps considerably between 9PS and 10PS with a 49 cut weapon. Assuming you are using a poleaxe/elegant based on your picture, you should probably be shooting for 2-shotting most people, for which 6-7PS is probably enough.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Digglez on August 11, 2011, 01:09:32 am
I had always been agi heavy or balanced and went 24STR for 2 gens, got more kills than ever before.  I went back to 5PS and couldnt stand having to hit enemies 5-10 times to kill them (WITH A BLUNT DMG WEAPON).

I wouldnt do anything less than 6. 7 is probably optimal, 8 if you have a long reach weapon
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 01:21:50 am
Aim for the head, it's not hard to hit.

And even powerstrike 5 is enough, especially with a polearm. You just need to find the sweet spot mechanic if you haven't already.

Well, in the heat of battle, when I always end up being ganked by like 4 ppl, I hardly have any time to precisely aim those attacks.
It's hard enough to micro-manage footwork, blocks, and anticipate their incoming swings.

Ah, I got introduced to so many "mechanics" and "how to"-s thanks to this game. But, which one is defined as the sweet-spot mechanic?

I'm confus

I tend to think in terms of "1-shot percentage", and I notice it jumps considerably between 9PS and 10PS with a 49 cut weapon. Assuming you are using a poleaxe/elegant based on your picture, you should probably be shooting for 2-shotting most people, for which 6-7PS is probably enough.

Yeah the pic is accurate of my loadout.  :)

I'm planning on ditching riding, and boosting my character with those points instead. I do more melee now thanks to the horse price/lance angle nerf, it's got dumbed down. Heck I shouldn't have brought this up, oops.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Torben on August 11, 2011, 02:04:48 am
imo the new armor soak favors higher ps,  also the sweetspot is more important becaus u seem to glance more at the boarders of youre swing.

so meh,  try a stf char with more ps maybe?  i have 8 ps and it made ground combat a lot ezier than before when i had mostly 5,  maybe once 6
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Leshma on August 11, 2011, 02:19:28 am
As someone who's build has a lot of agi and ath and wpf, I must say that any of those worth shit now.

Devs totally fucked up agi builds, those are useless now.

Get enough agi so you don't move around like a zombie (5 ath should be ok) and put rest to str.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 11, 2011, 02:44:45 am
It seems EU is getting more strength-leaning balanced builds. It is always a metagame of getting the slight edge over your opponent without being outpaced by moving to slow.

(btw go 24/15. Still catches those darned back-peddling agi characters)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Kato on August 11, 2011, 03:33:32 am
Cut damage weapons are shit now, especially when all players with generation over 10 have fucking lordly armor+gloves.
I think this armor soak changes must be reworked or EU degenerate to NA state.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: rustyspoon on August 11, 2011, 04:17:11 am
With the new soak values, I'm pretty sure high damage cut weapons got hurt the most. Since the reduce is a percentage it stands to reason that a high damage weapon is reduced more than a lower damage weapon. As it stands, I pretty much go for head hits nowadays. Body hits take me all damn day to kill someone with my poleaxe.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 11, 2011, 04:28:22 am
10 PS feels weak, can't wait till I hit level 34 :(
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corwin on August 11, 2011, 04:30:57 am
I am very happy with 8PS, especially since at lvl 32 I have also 6 ath. With MW Danish I hit pretty hard. However, I know El Supreme is even happier with 9PS (27/12 build) and Great Long Axe. Perhaps 21/21 for lvl 31 would be a great compromise between hard hits and speed, but I never tested this build.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cepeshi on August 11, 2011, 04:49:37 am
I did had 21/21 with 7ps/wm and 3 athl, was awesome to play, even tho i did it pre soak nerf.

Anyways, i am usually sporting 7-8 PS, on horse its enough to onehit with speedbonus, on foot with blunt weapons good aswell. 24/15 or 21/18 are the most used by me last few gens :)

edit: and ye, with swords it take me 2-3 more hits to kill than with blunt weapon :(
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Casimir on August 11, 2011, 04:55:23 am
Id say aim for 13.

Im happy with 6 but 7 is probably preferable.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 11, 2011, 06:34:48 am
I did had 21/21 with 7ps/wm and 3 athl, was awesome to play, even tho i did it pre soak nerf.

Anyways, i am usually sporting 7-8 PS, on horse its enough to onehit with speedbonus, on foot with blunt weapons good aswell. 24/15 or 21/18 are the most used by me last few gens :)

edit: and ye, with swords it take me 2-3 more hits to kill than with blunt weapon :(

21/21 with 3 athletics? ...... what..
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cepeshi on August 11, 2011, 07:36:38 am
21/21 with 3 athletics? ...... what..

    Strength: 21
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 56

    Skills to attributes: 14

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 3
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

   Two Handed: 164


this

i found that the wpf for this build helped a lot instead of agi, i didnt had to dance so much, cause i was hitting hard and fast (pre soak change, mind you)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 11, 2011, 08:58:06 am
You do realize that the extra WPF you get with 21/21 instead of 21/18 is like... nonexistant? Difference between 155 wpf and 164 wpf is the same as difference between 5 and 14 wpf. I.e, nonexistant compared to what 6-7 instead of 3 athletics gives. Heck, that much more athletics is a lot more damage as well due to speed bonus.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: v/onMega on August 11, 2011, 09:38:19 am
Lvl 33 21/21 8 converted. Everything maxed out but IF.

My fav. since u dont miss anything with that build :-)

One can argue if 24 str or agi fits the personal playstyle/weapon better.

Cepeshis build really isn't good :-(
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Siiem on August 11, 2011, 09:48:19 am
18/24 would be optimal, but the grinding involved :(
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Vibe on August 11, 2011, 09:53:01 am
I'd say 7 powerstrike is enough, so 21/18 would have that, enough athletics and 7 IF on lvl 31.

I have a 9 PS 3 ath alt (lvl 27), hits hard, but only 3 ath makes it very slow. I even compared this alt to a 7 PS 24/12 STF alt just because I was interested on how big the 7 PS -> 9 PS difference is, found out that it takes me about the same number of hits to kill a guy, it was more related to speed bonuses and stuff I guess. Therefore I believe 7 PS would be enough and you also get enough ath to move around.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cepeshi on August 11, 2011, 10:34:31 am
You all seem to forget what this should be about: having fun.

I had a damn blast with that build, i swung fast and it hurt. Was wearing mostly light gear.
Do not badtalk something you have not tried. Also, some people might preffer different style of playing, there is no thing such as a "bad build". As long as the one who plays it is having fun, it is a good build.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Bobthehero on August 11, 2011, 10:35:29 am
I have a 30/9 works well, especially with Stabby and Clonkie.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on August 11, 2011, 10:49:26 am
Try this:

Strength: 24
Agility: 18
Hit points: 65
Skills to attributes: 10

Ironflesh: 3
Power Strike: 8
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 6

Two handed: 158

Note: lvl 32

An alternative to this would be putting 3 points into shield instead of IF
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: darmaster on August 11, 2011, 01:01:13 pm
900
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 03:02:43 pm
I came up with a build, for 30.

Level 30 (4 420 577 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 18
Hit points: 66

Ironflesh: 5
Power Strike: 7
Athletics: 6
Weapon Master: 5

Polearm: 148

Let's hope this will cut it.

PS: Or, this.

(click to show/hide)

Is there any difference between 5 and 6 ATH now? I remember there was back in the day, but now that AGI is nerfed to pieces, I don't know.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corwin on August 11, 2011, 03:11:30 pm
There is some difference, but imo you will get more with second build.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 03:12:29 pm
That's what I think too.

In this era of cRPG, Stopping power and Brute Strength is more important than ever, sadly.

Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Bjord on August 11, 2011, 03:13:17 pm

Well, in the heat of battle, when I always end up being ganked by like 4 ppl, I hardly have any time to precisely aim those attacks.
It's hard enough to micro-manage footwork, blocks, and anticipate their incoming swings.

Ah, I got introduced to so many "mechanics" and "how to"-s thanks to this game. But, which one is defined as the sweet-spot mechanic?

I'm confus

I can show you in the duel server, just let me know when you want to. I'm in the IRC.

Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 11, 2011, 03:14:39 pm
I can show you in the duel server, just let me know when you want to. I'm in the IRC.

Coolio. My interwebz is having some latency issue now, I'll check on you when it's settled.  8-)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: NuberT on August 11, 2011, 03:22:45 pm
My endbuild: Already lvl 33, with mighty poleaxe I do a lot of onehits and I can use long maul, which sucks with ps7.

Level 34 (71 139 224 xp)

    Strength: 24
    Agility: 18
    Hit points: 75
    Skills to attributes: 6

    Ironflesh: 8
    Power Strike: 8
    Shield: 1
    Athletics: 6
    Weapon Master: 6

    Polearm: 160
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corwin on August 11, 2011, 03:38:08 pm
With lvl 34 you could be 27/18, or even better, 24/21. IMO, you really didn't need 8 in IF nor that 1 in shield.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: NuberT on August 11, 2011, 04:18:29 pm
Nah 8 IF is awesome, especially on siege. And the 1 in shield is to wear Old Board Shield in Strat - pretty importent.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 11, 2011, 08:39:17 pm
You all seem to forget what this should be about: having fun.

I had a damn blast with that build, i swung fast and it hurt. Was wearing mostly light gear.
Do not badtalk something you have not tried. Also, some people might preffer different style of playing, there is no thing such as a "bad build". As long as the one who plays it is having fun, it is a good build.

No broski, there is such thing as a bad build. Yours is a horrible build. That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it. If you had fun with it, more power to you. And don't act like it's some secret sorcery you've cooked up with that build, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has, among other things, had 7 PS at one time and 3 athletics at another. Just never at the same time, because I don't do bad builds :P

If you want to gimp yourself intentionally with a build, that is all well and good of course. But advertising it to other players for them to use is just mean.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cepeshi on August 11, 2011, 09:07:02 pm
No broski, there is such thing as a bad build. Yours is a horrible build. That doesn't mean you can't have fun with it. If you had fun with it, more power to you. And don't act like it's some secret sorcery you've cooked up with that build, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has, among other things, had 7 PS at one time and 3 athletics at another. Just never at the same time, because I don't do bad builds :P

If you want to gimp yourself intentionally with a build, that is all well and good of course. But advertising it to other players for them to use is just mean.

not even going to bother responding to this by anything else than the fact i wont bother to respond by anything else
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 11, 2011, 09:26:17 pm
not even going to bother responding to this by anything else than the fact i wont bother to respond by anything else

Good. It's always a losing fight when you fight the truth.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Fluffy_Muffin on August 11, 2011, 10:04:37 pm
Athletics? lololololol l2 block   :D

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 12:40:03 pm
i feel fine with 7PS because i prefer pumping athletics a little more. raising the damage a little with the speed bonus given by athletics, is something you should consider. so imo higher powerstrike give more power on overheads (low speed bonus situation) while athletics and wpf, works better for side swings (high speed bonus situation, mouse turning swings faster).

also i noticed that if two weapons share the same damage numbers, the longer of the two will damage more because with longer reach, when hitting with the end of the weapon, the speed of impact will be higher.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Kafein on August 14, 2011, 01:08:19 pm
People complain they don't one or two shot others, then they go str and then complain they are getting ganked all the time.


IMO now with the armor changes, bounces are way less likely to happen thus PS got nerfed a lot. People consider str to be better than agi (over 15/15) because they are used to play rhino tanks that can't disengage. Playing an agi character is totally different from playing an str character, but if people don't know that and don't change the way they play, it's clear str is better for them.

The main thing with high agi is the ability to disengage fights and control a very large zone around you. Projectile dodging is also easier. Furthermore, duelling with an agi oriented character requires another approach. I'd say agi is better for defensive, mentally strong duellers that block very well and will remain calm and constant if the duel becomes long. Str is better for aggressive duellers, with decent blocking but very fast and sophisticated attack shemes. Making elaborate holds/feints/chamberblocks requires more error tolerance from the char and equipment than simply blocking and attacking for hours.

There are other things that differ between str and agi characters. In fact almost everything changes at least slightly, but you got my point already.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Dioxete on August 14, 2011, 03:43:25 pm
    Strength: 21
    Agility: 21
    Hit points: 56

    Skills to attributes: 14

    Ironflesh: 0
    Power Strike: 7
    Shield: 0
    Athletics: 3
    Riding: 0
    Horse Archery: 0
    Power Draw: 0
    Power Throw: 0
    Weapon Master: 7

   Two Handed: 164


this

i found that the wpf for this build helped a lot instead of agi, i didnt had to dance so much, cause i was hitting hard and fast (pre soak change, mind you)

I did a build like this, and it's working rly fine with my spamberge

Level 31 (8 892 403 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 21
Hit points: 56
Unused skill points: 1
Skills to attributes: 12

Power Strike: 7
Athletics: 5
Weapon Master: 7

Two Handed: 176




Planning to go to this one: Level 33 (35 569 612 xp)
Strength: 21
Agility: 24
Hit points: 56
Skills to attributes: 14

Power Strike: 7
Athletics: 5
Weapon Master: 8

Two Handed: 176


We rock cepeshi :D:D:D:D:DD:D::D
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 04:00:00 pm
People complain they don't one or two shot others, then they go str and then complain they are getting ganked all the time.


IMO now with the armor changes, bounces are way less likely to happen thus PS got nerfed a lot. People consider str to be better than agi (over 15/15) because they are used to play rhino tanks that can't disengage. Playing an agi character is totally different from playing an str character, but if people don't know that and don't change the way they play, it's clear str is better for them.

The main thing with high agi is the ability to disengage fights and control a very large zone around you. Projectile dodging is also easier. Furthermore, duelling with an agi oriented character requires another approach. I'd say agi is better for defensive, mentally strong duellers that block very well and will remain calm and constant if the duel becomes long. Str is better for aggressive duellers, with decent blocking but very fast and sophisticated attack shemes. Making elaborate holds/feints/chamberblocks requires more error tolerance from the char and equipment than simply blocking and attacking for hours.

There are other things that differ between str and agi characters. In fact almost everything changes at least slightly, but you got my point already.

this.

also, strength give more advantages (1hp per str point, 1 raw damage per str point, unlock IF and PS)
while agility gives only slightly running speed and no more (since jan patch) 0.5% swing speed per point. (one agility point give something like 1% or 1.5% running speed).

that's why balanced or 21/18 24/15 builds are imo the best bet. they give you decent speed, good damage, good passive defence.
otherwise, agi biased builds (15/24 phyrex-like builds) gives you a lot of mobility even with a 20weight armor, lightning fast blocks, but need good footwork for speed bonus or good aim for head hits to be really effective.

also agi biased builds give you the ability to disengage, fast flank maneuvers, effective bait tactics, ranged evasion, anticav footwork, mobility to go where you need to.

str builds rocks the siege defence. awesome in tight spaces where you can't get speed bonus, where you can take a beating with 85hp and 70 armor, where you can use mallets/great mauls effectively.

also, str builds works best in a tight brawl. when you have some shield cover and you break the enemy line with a hard hitting axeman, you can literally wipe shielders away.

also high STR & max ironflesh builds needs high armor to maximize the armor rating bonus. for instance, a 36/3 build with 95hp and 80ish armor (loomed plate and gauntlets) needs something like 10hits from a 40ish cut weapon with 6-7ps and at least 5 good hits from a bec de corbin / morningstar balanced build (6 ps).
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Osiris on August 14, 2011, 04:19:40 pm
I had 21-18 7ps with my polearm build but i find 18-21 way more fun and easier with my 2h. Its the way forward!
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 14, 2011, 04:45:04 pm
otherwise, agi biased builds (15/24 phyrex-like builds) gives you a lot of mobility even with a 20weight armor, lightning fast blocks,

You block just as fast at 3/3 as you do at 3/40..
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 06:39:54 pm
You block just as fast at 3/3 as you do at 3/40..

BS. you block A LOT faster with high weapon profiency. since 3/3 = weapon master 1 and 3/40 = weapon master 12.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: rustyspoon on August 14, 2011, 06:47:43 pm
BS. you block A LOT faster with high weapon profiency. since 3/3 = weapon master 1 and 3/40 = weapon master 12.

WM does BARELY anything for swing speed, especially if you're using a fast weapon. It also doesn't do anything for block speed. You can block as fast as you can hit the button.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 14, 2011, 06:48:52 pm
BS. you block A LOT faster with high weapon profiency. since 3/3 = weapon master 1 and 3/40 = weapon master 12.

WM has nothing to do with blockspeed, bro.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: _Vandal_ on August 14, 2011, 07:37:07 pm
People complain they don't one or two shot others, then they go str and then complain they are getting ganked all the time.


IMO now with the armor changes, bounces are way less likely to happen thus PS got nerfed a lot. People consider str to be better than agi (over 15/15) because they are used to play rhino tanks that can't disengage. Playing an agi character is totally different from playing an str character, but if people don't know that and don't change the way they play, it's clear str is better for them.

The main thing with high agi is the ability to disengage fights and control a very large zone around you. Projectile dodging is also easier. Furthermore, duelling with an agi oriented character requires another approach. I'd say agi is better for defensive, mentally strong duellers that block very well and will remain calm and constant if the duel becomes long. Str is better for aggressive duellers, with decent blocking but very fast and sophisticated attack shemes. Making elaborate holds/feints/chamberblocks requires more error tolerance from the char and equipment than simply blocking and attacking for hours.

There are other things that differ between str and agi characters. In fact almost everything changes at least slightly, but you got my point already.
Thats a great way of putting it!
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 08:17:49 pm
WM does BARELY anything for swing speed, especially if you're using a fast weapon. It also doesn't do anything for block speed. You can block as fast as you can hit the button.

first point:
from 1wpf to 150wpf there is a 15% boost to swing speed and damage. (faster animation, faster hit speed, physics applies)

second point:

must be weird. when i just retire and use the wooden sword with 30ish wpf, the block animation is like slowmotion (and the wooden sword is really light) but when i start getting 100+ wpf block animation are really fast. maybe is just me..

WM has nothing to do with blockspeed, bro.

weapon master alone don't do nothing besides giving you WPP to spend.
ok i hope to be clear this time:

weapon master (WM) has nothing to do with block speed. BUT since WEAPON MASTER give WEAPON PROFIENCY POINTS (WPP) to spend in WEAPON PROFIENCY (WPF), raising the numerical WEAPON PROFIENCY value, block animations will be FASTER

if you really deny that, or you just forgot how going from 1wpf to 140wpf improves your blocking speed (a lot more than swing speed)or i really don't get it.

things works like that.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: rustyspoon on August 14, 2011, 08:37:16 pm
first point:
from 1wpf to 150wpf there is a 15% boost to swing speed and damage. (faster animation, faster hit speed, physics applies)

second point:

must be weird. when i just retire and use the wooden sword with 30ish wpf, the block animation is like slowmotion (and the wooden sword is really light) but when i start getting 100+ wpf block animation are really fast. maybe is just me..

weapon master alone don't do nothing besides giving you WPP to spend.
ok i hope to be clear this time:

weapon master (WM) has nothing to do with block speed. BUT since WEAPON MASTER give WEAPON PROFIENCY POINTS (WPP) to spend in WEAPON PROFIENCY (WPF), raising the numerical WEAPON PROFIENCY value, block animations will be FASTER

if you really deny that, or you just forgot how going from 1wpf to 140wpf improves your blocking speed (a lot more than swing speed)or i really don't get it.

things works like that.

You always block at the same speed regardless of WPF. There are only 2 instances I have noticed that affect blocking. Using an unbalanced weapon or using a really slow weapon. Each of those also only affect the 1st block. After that, you are fine.

If WPF did anything to blocking then how come as a level 1 peasant with a stick I can block people all day long?

Also, 130 WPF will increase your swing speed by roughly .1 seconds. It does give you roughly 10 points of damage though. BEHOLD! A chart stolen from Walt.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 14, 2011, 08:41:29 pm
first point:
from 1wpf to 150wpf there is a 15% boost to swing speed and damage. (faster animation, faster hit speed, physics applies)

second point:

must be weird. when i just retire and use the wooden sword with 30ish wpf, the block animation is like slowmotion (and the wooden sword is really light) but when i start getting 100+ wpf block animation are really fast. maybe is just me..

weapon master alone don't do nothing besides giving you WPP to spend.
ok i hope to be clear this time:

weapon master (WM) has nothing to do with block speed. BUT since WEAPON MASTER give WEAPON PROFIENCY POINTS (WPP) to spend in WEAPON PROFIENCY (WPF), raising the numerical WEAPON PROFIENCY value, block animations will be FASTER

if you really deny that, or you just forgot how going from 1wpf to 140wpf improves your blocking speed (a lot more than swing speed)or i really don't get it.

things works like that.

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


And to think you're so confident too. "things work like that."
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 14, 2011, 08:51:57 pm
Quote
from 1wpf to 150wpf there is a 15% boost to swing speed and damage.
corrected that for you. There is a speed increase, it is pretty small. Weapon speed matters more than WPF. At 100 WPF you are using the weapon as the stats list it.
There is roughly 1 weapon speed difference per ~20ish WPF over 100. Not very significant when it comes to battling in cRPG.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 09:02:33 pm
You always block at the same speed regardless of WPF. There are only 2 instances I have noticed that affect blocking. Using an unbalanced weapon or using a really slow weapon. Each of those also only affect the 1st block. After that, you are fine.

If WPF did anything to blocking then how come as a level 1 peasant with a stick I can block people all day long?

Also, 130 WPF will increase your swing speed by roughly .1 seconds. It does give you roughly 10 points of damage though. BEHOLD! A chart stolen from Walt.

(click to show/hide)

looking the 98 speed spear, with a swing speed of 1.1 seconds at 0 wpf and 1.0 seconds at 140wpf, there is a 0.1 seconds difference and is roughly 10%.. sorry i said from 1 to 150wpf 15%.. i should wrote 10%.. sorry if i messed numbers that much

corrected that for you. There is a speed increase, it is pretty small. Weapon speed matters more than WPF. At 100 WPF you are using the weapon as the stats list it.
There is roughly 1 weapon speed difference per ~20ish WPF over 100. Not very significant when it comes to battling in cRPG.

10% from 1 to 140 is not important? 0.1 seconds in a second speed swing? is the same difference between 50ms ping and 150ms... if you say is not worth.. well... GG  :wink:
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Tears of Destiny on August 14, 2011, 09:05:47 pm
wpf does give a bit of damage.
At 1 wpf you are doing 85% normal damage, at 100 wpf you are doing 100% and at 200 wpf you are doing 115%. It is kinda a decent deal as the average fighter would get the equivalent of a free PS bonus out of it.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 09:11:38 pm
wpf does give a bit of damage.
At 1 wpf you are doing 85% normal damage, at 100 wpf you are doing 100% and at 200 wpf you are doing 115%. It is kinda a decent deal as the average fighter would get the equivalent of a free PS bonus out of it.

don't know why i still block better with 140wpf than 1.

And to think you're so confident too. "things work like that."

well please read instead of trolling me  :)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 14, 2011, 10:41:58 pm
Please get your facts straight. Go ask a dev or something. You're wrong about WPF affecting block speed.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 14, 2011, 11:07:12 pm
Please get your facts straight. Go ask a dev or something. You're wrong about WPF affecting block speed.

why i do need to ask if i noticed it with my own eyes? it's like asking if the sun is bright.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Dooz on August 14, 2011, 11:16:30 pm
It's also like asking if the pink elephant you see in a dream is real at the moment of having it. Your senses are not infallible, but facts about game mechanics from the devs who implemented them should be....

Good stuff in this thread with plenty of helpful info, thanks all.  :)
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Xant on August 14, 2011, 11:17:09 pm
why i do need to ask if i noticed it with my own eyes? it's like asking if the sun is bright.

There is medication for hallucination. Help is near.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Siiem on August 14, 2011, 11:21:34 pm
I thought this was a discussion about powerstrike? .S
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Christo on August 15, 2011, 12:08:14 am
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Corrado_Decimo on August 15, 2011, 01:27:43 am
I thought this was a discussion about powerstrike? .S

yes. that's why i added some sauce to the receipt.

basically melee builds are a compromise between STR (powerstrike, ironflesh) and AGI (ath, WM. since christo is a polearm footman, i'll not consider shield and riding).

so back again in topic, IMHO the best compromise for easy damage AND decent speed to at least reach fulltime agi backpedallers is 24/15 at level 30. As over 5 weapon master, the wpf gain is almost worthless. the only advantage of higher AGI is the mobility. (and shouldn't be understimated).

i have an awlpike spammer alt 13/27 4ps 9ath 9wm. there 4ps is more than enough to never glance and can easly stunlock with multiple thrusts. is funny and fast but with only 4ps takes forever to kill an armored STR foe with a long axe (40 cut). instead usually needs from 3 to 6 awlpike thrusts to kill anybody.

so. pierce is really good to not glance with lowish PS polearm stunlocker builds.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: rustyspoon on August 15, 2011, 05:26:05 am
If you really want to game the system, PS is king. My 30/9 polearm build is WAY more effective than my 21/18 build; but I have more fun with the 21/18.

High damage cut weapons REALLY benefit from stacked strength. Even with the armor changes you can 1 and 2 hit people all day long. The slow movement speed just bored the shit out of me.

Currently I'm using this build with a German Poleaxe:

STR: 21
AGI: 18
HP: 70
IF: 7
PS: 7
ATH: 6
WM: 3
WPF: 130

Going for overheads or thrusts I can still kill people rather quickly unless they are in heirloomed plate. I can also take a ton of hits and not get outspammed. I'm also fast enough to run with any of my clanmates which really helps with getting the overheads in.

So if you want to be super-effective, go for stacked strength, but don't complain when it takes you all day to run across the map.

Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Vibe on August 15, 2011, 07:55:55 am
I think WPF affects the speed of weapon going from block to swing, not from swing/stale to block.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Cyclopsided on August 15, 2011, 09:17:38 am
I think WPF affects the speed of weapon going from block to swing, not from swing/stale to block.
there should be no difference. Anything noticed is placebo.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: Fartface on August 15, 2011, 01:55:43 pm
i just always go 18-18 with an military scythe not heirloomed at all.
and i find that im hitting my enemys dead in 1-2-3 hits in medium armor so.
and 15/24 with an 2 times heirlooomed great axe that works great for me to so.
Title: Re: Optimal Power Strike?
Post by: MrShine on August 15, 2011, 03:04:18 pm
I consider 'optimal power strike' to be whatever will reliably 1-3 shot the majority of people.  If you are spending longer trying to kill someone I personally feel that you are reducing your character's effectiveness. 

When I make builds I focus on PS for strength and ATH for agility... weapon master and ironflesh are just bonuses for whatever build is selected although I will say that I value ironflesh much more than weapon master so I usually favor the strength heavy side more.

Heavy cut weapons I'd say go no less than 7 ps.  'Regular' cut weapons I think 8 ps is best.  Pierce and blunt weapons I'd say you can probably bring your PS down to 6, some people go down to 5 but I've never been that low as a dedicated melee build.